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Dublin: 10 °C Wednesday 22 May, 2013

Referendum roundup: 3 days to go

Austerity treaty, stability treaty, or somewhere in between? TheJournal.ie keeps you up to date with our evening Fiscal Compact referendum bulletin.

King of Tory, artist and Musician, Patsy Dan Mac Ruari votes in the EU Fiscal treaty referendum on Tory Island
King of Tory, artist and Musician, Patsy Dan Mac Ruari votes in the EU Fiscal treaty referendum on Tory Island
Image: Artur Widak/PA Wire/Press Association Images

EVERY EVENING, TheJournal.ie brings you the latest news and campaign moves, squabbles and – hopefully – useful tidbits of information as we face into the 31 May Fiscal Compact referendum.

(If you just want to make up your mind by yourself, you can read TheJournal.ie’s layman’s guide to the treaty).

WHAT’S NEW?

  • It’s polling day today if you live on one of five islands in Donegal – Inishfree, Arranmore, Gola, Inishboffin and Tory Island – where people cast their ballots three days before the rest of the country. We took a look at how things unfolded in the temporary polling stations, some of which were in people’s homes.
  • Who’s the most popular leader in the country right now? According to today’s Irish Times/Ipsos MRBI poll, that person is Sinn Féin leader Gerry Adams. The poll also found that satisfaction with the government parties has increased, but satisfaction with both Taoiseach Enda Kenny and Tánaiste Eamon Gilmore has declined.
  • The European Movement Ireland has called on all sides to focus on “just the facts” of what is contained in the Treaty and what the tangible implications of a Yes or a No vote are likely to be. Its Executive Director said that a “worryingly high” number of respondents in a recent poll said they are unsure of how they will vote.
  • (Note: TheJournal.ie will be publishing the answers to readers’ questions about the wording of the treaty tomorrow. We will have answers from the independent European Policy Centre, the Referendum Commission, as well as from the ‘No’ and ‘Yes’ camp on the same 10 questions posed by YOU.)
  • A survey by the MBA Association of Ireland (MBAAI) of its members found that 68 per cent intend to vote ‘Yes’ on Thursday, 15 per cent plan to vote No, and a further 17 per cent are undecided.
  • A survey by the Small Firms Association has indicated that the majority of its members believe a ‘Yes’ vote is likely in the referendum – 83 per cent, in fact. The survey also revealed that 95 per cent of respondents agreed that the Treaty will give confidence to invest and create jobs in Ireland and that it will help to stabilise not just the EU, but the euro currency.
  • Funding from the European Stability Mechanism was the subject of clashing between campaigners on either side of the debate during RTÉ’s Today with Pat Kenny show this morning. The Socialist Party’s Clare Daly said that any of the 17 Eurozone countries can block an application to the ESM, whereas Fianna Fáil’s Micheál Martin said that it was clear that legally Ireland won’t have access to the ESM if the country votes No.

BIG HURLEY IN YOUR FACE-OFF OF THE DAY

(Image: Sam Boal/Photocall Ireland)

VS

(Image: Laura Hutton/Photocall Ireland)

The Socialist Party’s new sports-themed campaign poster has been unveiled – and somewhat unfortunately, Taoiseach Enda Kenny wielded a hurley while announcing new jobs at BuyersClub.ie today. Ouch.

GIANT PINK BANNER OF THE DAY

Deputy Mick Wallace has overseen a large banner put up above one of his restaurants in Dublin’s Italian Quarter on Ormond Quay, calling for people to vote No. Wallace said that the treaty “does nothing to deal with the cause of the present economic crisis – reckless practice on the part of financial institutions”.

POLLING STATION OF THE DAY

(Image: Niall Carson/PA Wire)

Most polling stations have queues of people wanting to cast their vote – but the only person queuing up on Inishfree was the island’s sole occupant, artist Barry Edgar Pilcher. Looking on was Hugh O’Donnell (right), the Presiding Officer. Pilcher was one of the people living on islands off the coast of Donegal who were able to cast their vote in European Fiscal Treaty Referendum today. Pilcher’s polling station was located… in his living room.

Read in full: The Fiscal Compact Treaty in laymans’ terms (PDF)>

Read more: TheJournal.ie’s coverage of the Fiscal Compact referendum>

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Comments (46 Comments)

  • Clear and objective information on the content of the Fiscal and ESM Treaties is key for an informed vote on Thursday. Thanks to sources such as the journal.ie there has been such information in circulation, and room for debate on this. Such sources should be circulated as much as possible, as it is crucial people can really inform themselves instead of listening to hyperbole or biased arguments. Another source that deserves a look is http://taleoftwotreaties.tumblr.com – its’ a Citizen’s Guide written by two solicitors with the intent to translate the ‘legalese’ of treaties into more understandable language.

    Reply
    • One of my mates that is canvassing for a yes vote, told me tonight that a lot of people were switching or had decided to go with No. He’s having second thoughts himself as are a lot of his party colleagues. Bad deal for Ireland.

      Reply
    • limofax you’ll forgive me but after some of the porkies I’ve been told by no campaigners I’ll take what you’re saying with a large pinch of salt. Of course given some of the no posters I linked to above I wouldn’t be surprised to find people had been scared into a no vote.
      Do you like my guide?

      Reply
    • I hope they’re ex-mates while they’re canvassing for a yes vote Limofax, unless they follow their heart and switch. I’m finding a lot of undecideds while canvassing. Most want to vote no but the scare tactics from the government seem to have a lot of elderly people worried.

      Reply
    • Life a commodity

      When people of wisdom whom should have much to say
      Speak not and hold their council
      Allowing greed and misrule to optimize
      Words of hope being an empty recital
      When material advancement stands to the fore
      To the detriment of human dignity
      Life in its wholeness becomes an abstract
      And civilization a mere commodity

      P.J.

      It is time to speak. It is time to stand up. It is time to regain our dignity as a nation. I will be voting no in the referendum.

      Reply
    • I just read every comment i could here thismorning and something dawned on me….. has anyone copped that the orignal countries that put this together have already, effectively, voted no by refusing to pass it thru chambers. Funny why do we even have a “YES” camp. Vote NO.

      Reply
    • limofax 29/05/12 #

      Reada friends are friends despite some of their political persuasions. I once even had a friend who was a PD!!
      The friends out canvassing for a yes vote are Fine Gaelers, the rest of my mates call them ‘characters’. One by one they are all coming over to the No side though.

      Reply
  • I’m 40 years of age. I have 30 years to go to retirement. If we vote yes, I’ll still be paying back this money when I retire in 2042

    To people my age and younger. Vote No. End this madness. Worst case scenario there’ll be a run on the banks, we’ll exit the euro, default on our debt, start again and we’re free. Like Iceland Latvia and Estonia. All current power houses of growth

    Best case scenario, Germany take back the german debt they saddled us with and we can have a more manageable debt provided the govt implement the appropriate cuts in overspending and waste. If we vote no they won’t have any choice. Their first reaction will be to punish. To increase taxes. To keep higher public service pay levels the same while cutting back on medicines, increasing waiting times for medical procedures, social welfare assessments and so on. And Noonan will look dolefully into the camera and tell you it is all your fault for voting no.

    However the realization will quickly set in that mobile high earners (myself included) can simply up sticks and get a better life in the UK, Canada, US, Australia. Then there is no pool of private taxation to tap and the public servants eat grass. Personally, if it comes to it, I’d up sticks in a heart beat, along with my wife and 4 children if we vote no and they try sort out the shortfall through excessive taxation.

    I will not be rode for anymore tax than I am paying to keep these ginnets in the lifestyle they aspire to live. To quote FG: “Not one more cent” – the difference being, I’m not lying.

    If your under 40 you’ll get out in your thousands and vote no. If you don’t, you’ll have the rest of your long working life pondering why you’re still paying the debts of people who will be by then, pushing up daisies

    Reply
    • Well said, and I’m willing to keep my shoulder to the wheel as they say but not while zie Germans have their foot on the accelerator. those who don’t leave will give up fighting a losing battle and add to the burden. something big has to change.

      Reply
    • “Worst case scenario there’ll be a run on the banks, we’ll exit the euro, default on our debt, start again and we’re free.” Sounds real easy, especially when you dont mention the mass unemployment,starvation, riots etc

      Reply
    • Jesus John a bit over the top there with the old scare tactics. The world will still spin if we vote no. The sky will not fall if we vote no and contrary to populist slogans from the likes of lucinda cretin who likes to think it’ll all be lollipops and rainbows if we vote yes. Either way it’s shit creak. The difference being the no side actually regard Ireland to be worth more than Europe.

      Reply
    • @John

      No it won’t be easy, why should it be?

      Yes the easy option is to vote yes now only to leave our children to pay back this odious debt. How very easy that would be.

      Grow some b**ls, stand up and take one for the team.

      Reply
  • Did anyone see the news? The person in charge of the boat that brings ballot boxes to one of the islands..sporting an e.u. hat! dear god

    Reply
  • Cheapest bank bailout ever, Endas 5 point plan, vote yes for investment… yada yada usual bull****,
    It’s time for a change and a yes vote will not bring around change but merely deepen and prolong the pain endured by those at the bottom and middle of our economy.

    Reply
  • When you are broke and can’t afford to pay off your credit card anyone will tell you it’s “stupidity” to take out another credit card to pay for it!

    You ring them and pay off what you can afford then they write off the rest as they know its pointless to waste their money to peruse you..

    It is no different with Nations as the mathematics are the same.
    The definition of “stupidity” is making the same mistakes which is quite obvious, so why would we want a second “bailout”!
    I use that term lightly as you and your children’s children will pay for it 100 fold !

    It won’t be easy but the right choices often are the hard ones.
    The government are drunk on power and want the easy road for “them”, lets force them back to Europe to fight for us!

    This referendum is the first step,
    Its now or never !
    Bring back the Fighting Irish!!!!!!!!!!

    Reply
    • Couldn’t agree more Shayno. Lunacy to try borrow more money. You think the others would even lend them money? Imagine Inda going with the begging bowl to Francois Hollande and Hollande asks Inda why does Inda earn more than him? And he’s out with the begging bowl? I’d love to see them laugh him off the stage if the yes side win

      Reply
    • In 2015/15 we need an extra 36 billion to run the country. Where will it come from ?

      Reply
    • @John

      It will come from bleeding our Euroslave children!

      Reply
    • By cutting higher public service pay, slashing social welfare to be capped at minimum wage, abolishing unnecessary quangos, abolishing unvouched pensionable allowances, cuts to highe civil service pensions, reduction in public service numbers, reform of the medical card system and the community welfare officer money printing machine. That’s where

      Reply
    • We don’t “need” 36 billion. The political pigs at the state trough “want” 36 billion so they don’t have to scrap Croke park and face the music and so they can continue to gorge themselves and stuff their saddle bags before parachuting off into the sunset

      Reply
    • james 28/05/12 #

      Sorry…that should have read ” Greece isn’t playing ball”.

      Reply
    • @ John, in order for the government to be able to balance its books they will force me into a position which I am on the edge of, where I won’t be able to cover my bills with my income despite working a 60/70 hr week average. Then I will default on my mortgage, where will that money come from??? it will be wrote off. why? because that is what happens when something is impossible to pay. The second bailout conditions will push the people like me who are running flat out on a treadmill getting nowhere into giving up altogether. The bank debt needs to be written off! then we need to structure or own debt over a very long period interest only until the jobs grow again enabling us to pay off more. This is something the treaty will no allow us to do, killing any chance of me to have enough money to actually spend to spur growth of more jobs.

      Reply
    • Hay Croke Park, I know our politicians and higher public servents are over paid but no where near even 1 billion a year & with the amount of people hurting in this country I would not take the medical card from anyone at the moment. Even doing what you say, I weould be surprised if you saved more than 2 billion, where would you make up the short fall ?

      Reply
    • Well we wont be getting it from the ESM, that pot will be long empty by then….oh no silly me. I almost forgot that when pot is empty they can just demand whatever they want from us and we’ll have to pay it in 7 days.

      Reply
    • Shayno, if the bank debt was written off tommorrow, we would still need to borrow billions just to keep the country going and if you think a yes vote would bring more austerity check out what croke park wants to cut to have a no vote.

      Reply
    • @John. We pay 1.5 billion a year in unvouched PENSIONABLE allowances to public servants. We have among the highest paid teachers, judges, politicians, county managers in the OECD. We’re tripping up over fire officers on 75k a year when Manchester (same population as ireland) has only one. We waste public resources collecting car tax and household tax when this can be done at source – petrol levy, esb levy. We provide FREE GP care to people who don’t need it clogging up the system. We have endless – endless – Quangos like bord failte who get a budget of 130 million to promote Ireland and spend 104 million on administration. Abolish them. And the 4 new ones set up
      To over see the croke park aggrandisement. We have retired senior public servants on pensions of over 100k pa being appointed to state boards where they make even more money. We donate 4 billion a year (not all govt money, granted) to charities who pay their CEOs 100k plus. We have a community welfare officer system where people can walk in and walk out with 400 euro for a new buggy – for their fifth child – I’ve seen it.
      We have a public service increment system that costs am EXTRA 250 million a year EVERY year to pay.
      We have a welfare system where a married man with 4 kids in private rented accomodation on social welfare would have to earn 65k a year to make it worth his while to go back to work – he should be better off packing bags than sitting at home. Social welfare should be capped (including children’s allowance) at minimum wage.
      If we tackle all the above we can sail back to the markets if we’re still short. Hope that’s not too right wing for ya.

      Vote NO

      Reply
    • Croke your figures still don’t add up to any were near 36 billion & the austerity your saying will happen with a no vote is frighting, The amount of people who rely on social welfare in this country through no fault of their own is huge & you want to cut them just to have a no vote !

      Reply
    • @John. Frightening? Seriously John. What’s frightening is a yes vote and potentially access to the ESM, if it’s ever created.
      Picture a yes. Another 60 billion borrowed. No serious reform. Just tinkering round the edges like they are now. Stealth taxes. Continuing to prioritize cutting public service numbers instead of pay, so service levels go down.

      3 years down the road after a yes where will we be? We’ll be stagnant. There’ll have been no real reform. Social welfare will be more attractive than ever and will put an unbearable burden on the state. Mandate are currently negotiating a successor to the Croke Park Agreement so there’ll be another reason for no reform.

      So we’ll be more or less where we are now except we’ll owe 60 billion more than we do now.

      Once that happens we’re back where we are now except the debt is truly astronomic. Better to play our ace early and force a write down of the bank debt. At least we’d have a fighting chance. Vote NO. Yes is kicking the can down the road

      Reply
    • Scrap Croke Park. You talk a lot of sense. Everyone is just concerned about borrowing more and more without addressing the underlying problem. With this new treaty countries can be put into administration if the cant repay loans !! VOTE NO NO NO

      Reply
  • look at lucid creighton on Vincent browne and tell me you are still voting yes

    Reply
  • It’s well known we’ll be voting twice if we reject this We need a better deal on debts that are not ours, a yes gets us more kicking. No way

    Reply
  • I’ll live on cornflakes and beans on toast for the rest of my life rather than hand my country over to technocrats who are only interested in whats best for the Euro/Bankers/Politicians.

    Reply
  • Voting YES is like signing a blank cheque and handing it to the banks….Plain stupid
    Stability my a**e

    Reply
    • It’s amazing how all the business leaders across the country and the people that want to see positive change are endorsing a yes vote, even Michael o Leary said last week at least when we vote yes we would be governed by the Germans not our own scoobies.

      Reply
    • Running a country is not the same as running a business especially in O’leary style.
      Vote NO for Ireland not yes for Ireland inc.

      Reply
  • @Ryan oneill, thank God, I was beginning to think I was the only one who thought this any more.
    even broke and in tatters, my country is worth more to me than all the euros they can dangle under our noses.

    Reply
  • John you could be talking about what might happen when they try to implement the cuts to fund the second bailout or the 11.5 billion total to go to the ESM when you say starvation, mass unemployment and certainly riots as any more cuts will be a choice of eating or paying bills/taxes as already is for some.

    Reply
  • Captain Sensible is the king of Tory island. What is the world coming to at all?

    Reply
  • Was my comment deleted because of that one tiny expletive?

    Reply
  • Don’t pick sides anyway Journal with your two pics shoving “No” down peoples throats…Not a “Yes” in sight…interesting bias…

    Reply

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