this is the country we should boy cott imports from those jerks depend on us for exports

Would it not be normal behaviour for hate filled people to burn a flag of peace?

Belief systems created for racial or national advantage always result in conflict, this their purpose.

A flag of peace like the Irish tricolour that contains orange to demonstrate that the green bears it no hostility and wishes for peace!

I think the proper term is “racist”. ” Bigot” is the politically correct version.

But poles are Caucasian too so why would it be racist? Maybe people are over using racist when they should be using bigot or I should read up before I write up

They’re not a different race, so it can’t be racism. It’d be debatable to say they are a different ethnic group or even a different and distinct culture. It’s an issue of sectarianism and a very negative take on national identity, so “bigotry” is not being used for PC reasons, only for reasons of accuracy.

Not that the Orange Order would condemn it, not that they would condemn the celebration of beating a 15 yr old boy to death because he was Catholic. It is what the Orange Order, they are an equal opportunity bigot, they hate u no matter where u are from if u are Catholic or Gay.

The North isn’t all a hate filled place, Belfast is without doubt the best city in Ireland to go out in. Absolutely brilliant craic. It just has a problem with about 100k bigots who believe that they are superior to all taigs, micks and Paddy’s and who are fighting a loosing battle against equality. mutual respect and a shared future.

Their day is over.

If people believe that Caucasians can’t be racist to other Caucasians then the Nazis werent racist, but merely bigoted sectarians.

@ Eoin – Basically yes. The Nazis tried to propagate the myth that they were a separate race, so they’d have defined themselves a racist, but in fact they were cultural/national bigots. Whether Jewish identity is based on race or religion is always a muddled issue…

JTHM – the Nazis were racist. Modern definitions of race – and most scientists don’t agree it exists – tend to limit to black, white, Asian, if at all. However in the 19th and early 20th century “white” racism was specific to certain “white” groups – ayrans. Which obviously excluded Jews but in the case of the Nazis excluded Slavs. The British version of Aryanism excluded Celts. These groups defined themselves as racially superior to the out-groups which means the Nazis were definitely racist to Jews, and the Orange Order to Irish Catholics.

People are suggesting to boycott NI? What utter nonsense! What about the vast majority of people in the north who find this flag burning disgusting… Why do they deserve a boycott because of the actions of a few thugs? I’m from the north, I am as disgusted as anyone at the antics at these bonfires, and it’s bad enough that they are allowed to parade their sectarian hatred, but why should I have to suffer a boycott from people in the south?

The Nazi’s were racist, yes, they didn’t much like other races. But they couldn’t, in biological terms, be racist against the Poles, as, outside of wacky pseudo-science, a racial differentiation between German and Polish does stand up to scrutiny. A modern definition of race could only be a preponderance of genetic similarities common to people of one race but not shared by other not of that race. It’s a matter of degree. There wouldn’t be enough differentiation between Gean and Pole to show this. I think you’re confusing race with ethnicity. As for the Nazis, they were nuts. Their conception of the Aryan race was pure fantasy. The “historical “Aryan”s came from northern India – they were by no means Caucasian. The Celt vs. WASP argument is equally spurious, there far too many similarities in the gene pool to actively make a clear racial distinction. Making divisions based on hazy concepts of what race is is itself often bigoted.

This might be a bit off-topic, but here’s a fun video of marchers pausing at a Catholic church to march around and around in circles playing “The Famine Song”. Wait ’til the end of the video to see the cameraman being assaulted by what looks like either esteemed actor Richard Griffiths or a steamed ham with a stick

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=My5cf2zlkpo

JTHM, you argument is spurious. A group is racist if it

1) Considers itself a different race to another group, and generally if it considers itself a superior race.
2) Acts in that racist fashion, you know particularly engaging in genocide.

Calling the Nazis non-racists is absurd.

The modern definition of race is generally that it doesn’t exist. A popular version is that race is Asian, White, Black etc. exist as races. Thats not the scientific version.

If we go to the scientific methodology of assuming that no race really exists, then nobody has ever been racist, including American slave holders, or the KKK. Which is totally bonkers. The Orange Order are, therefore, racists.

Can we stop with the brash generalisations about ‘that place’ please? It is a minority who carry out this disgraceful behaviour. The people of Northern Ireland need to be given a chance. The bigots will die out in a few generations as everything is still quite raw.

@ Jono – white or Caucasian is not a race. There is no such thing as race. If you (and I don’t mean “you” personally) believe there is such a thing as race then it means you see a fundamental difference between blacks and whites, or between any other groups of humans, which indicates you are actually a racist. Racism, while initially coined as a term to refer to the belief that there are fundamental differences between the world’s “races” (be they Mongoloid, Caucasian, Negro, etc.), is now used as a term (both informally, and by organisations such as the UN, the EU, Council of Europe, AU, the Red Cross, etc.) to describe any discrimination, attack, denigration, etc. on any person based on that person’s ethnicity or nationality. So, yes, white Ulstermen denigrating white Polish simply because they are Polish is indeed racism. Similarly, white Irishmen denigrating white Ulster-Scots because they happen to be Loyalist, Unionist, etc. is also racism.

Narrow minded folks often suffer from a similar debilitating myopic condition too.

Agree, Dermott. Sad to think this nonsense still goes on – in 2012.

No mention of burning the Irish tri-colour or stopping outside catholic churches and playing sectarian songs or beating up someone trying to film it or stopping outside other contentious places or shoving their “traditions” down the throats of people that don’t want them in their areas.

I agree with the sentiment behind your comment, but I don’t think it would be worth it lodging an official complaint. Flag burning isn’t illegal in the UK so going down that route wouldn’t work. At the end of the day, its a piece of coloured material and I think in the Republic we have more important things to be concerned about. Those Orange Order members would relish it if we made a complaint…tri-colour sales would sky rocket because of the amount they would burn. Leave the kids to their toys….

Eventually all NI residents will get sick of them…as you say NI is industrially reliant on the Republic and even more so on the UK. Outside of that they just have tourism….and the Orange Order are not going to help boost that. I know its one of the reasons I don’t visit NI.

The two have strong links, for sure. But its the British version of the KKK.

oo = kkk in drag!

Ain’t that last sentence the truth! No surprise Northern nationalists feel resentment towards the south.

If the South had bothered and demanded that laws normal in Europe be implemented in the North, such as equal rights, One man, one vote, then I doubt if there would have been any trouble.

Sadly though most people here, were dead against such injustice in 50′s America or in South Africa but turned a blind eye to it to it up the road.

If the FG/Lab. Govt in the mid 70′s had released the findings of the Dublin/Monaghan bombings that showed British army involvement, it would have caused an out cry across Europe and America and would have probably forced a peace settlement. If, If, If. Unfortunately the state here was always obsessed with maintaining the status quo, no matter if it meant brutal and violent discrimination in the North, economic stagnation and emigration in the south. The people in control had to be kept there, for good or bad.

I’m sure Leo would echo the sentiment that burning the Irish tricolour is a long held Orange tradition and we southerners should embrace it!

i reckon leo wears union jack y-fronts and has a tattoo of king billy on his arse!

That unfortunately is not how our Govt. ever work. The Orange Order and loyalism can do no wrong and the Republicans can do no right.

The hiding that the NF and other fascists would get in both places wouldn’t be worth it for them to have five minutes of a march. I see the EDL around my area in Tower Hamlets regularly, they’re always outnumbered, the local community and the police won’t take their guff and are thrown out of the area back to the hovels from where they came from.

Problem is, certain sections of the community in Northern Ireland has left this kind of behaviour go on for far too long. This type of thing would NOT be acceptable In England, or on mainland Britain…so why have it in Northern Ireland?!!

The continuation of the occupation of the six counties requires religious hate, otherwise the two populations would naturally assimilate, intermarry and befriend and ”become more Irish than the irish themselves” the belief system created hundreds of years ago is still fulfilling it’s intended purpose.

The people who burn Irish and Polish flags are the same people who hang Israeli flags in their area as a counteraction against nationalist sympathy towards Palestine and then rush out to remove them when their comrades in C18 and other nazi groups call for a visit…..seriously mixed up people, we should have sympathy for them, they’re obviously retarded.

Many National Front and British Fascists take part in Orange marches in the North and England and Scotland. When they do that, the media here congratulate them for standing up for their heritage in front of Irish Nationalists who are just being awkward, and don’t realize that songs about killing them are a cultural treasure.

The National Front or the BNP wouldn’t even run the Orange Order close when it comes to extremism or bigotry or the capacity and willingness to use violence.

Fagan, I reckon you’re right. When I lived in Glasgow, members of the SDL often marched behind the Orange Walk (note: they don’t march beside the walk, it is often the followers of the OO that cause the violence on the streets, again from my observation).

One of the SDL’s posterboys: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0kL_URt4uo. Similar to Frazer, this guy is a nutcase but the language used is similar to certain areas of the North, I often heard KAL, the Famine Song etc in Scotland.

For me, the worst thing is seeing the kids follow along on the act…

Willie Frazer is a crackpot, full stop. How he gets media attention when everyone knows this (including many in his own community) is beyond sense.

Well said Ann-Marie. His website is the most cringe-worthy thing I’ve seen regarding Northern Ireland. He is like a real life Alan Partridge.

That’s a cracker about the Italian flag. What a dunce…he doesn’t even know what he is offended by anymore.

Micheal McDowell’s buddy Willie Frazer. Even most of the most bigoted in the North think he is a loon.

Ironic that your own comment is bigoted and racist isnt it Mark? You obviously have a chip on your shoulder to tar everyone with the same brush. Sad.

I said nothing different to all the rest of the comments andy.

Andrew my first comment is about the article above, not about the whole nation as you say, those responsible are the most BIGOTED, RACIST & HOMOPHOBIC people in europe, they are disgusting nasty people. And no i do not have a chip on my shoulder about N.I. I dislake the nasty people that do things like this, they will never have peace……………….. The country is a mess because of these people.

Your statement about a country being bigoted and racist is a bit different from an organisation being bigoted and racist. Not every loyalist is an Orangeman the same as not every nationalist supported the IRA.

My comment about the country being Bigoted & Racists is because of people like these. N.I has so much hatred in it. Things will never change that country so long as these people do nasty things like this inciting hatred.

Excuse me? Disgusting people? I completely resent that- I am from Derry and despise the Orange Order and all it stands for, I also despise some of the idiotic dissidents in my city but your complete tarring of the people in the North is just wrong!
Finally now the South is reacting to the bigots and neanderthals, pity that didnt happen when those bigots and neanderthals were shooting and opressing people!

I seriously hope you are saying disgusting people in reference to orangemen and not me or the vast majority of people that have no time for this? People wonder why the nationalists in the North protested and got violent- these people used to rule us!

Fiachra if you read my comments again you will see i am talking about those responsible for “this” meaning the article above, what we are all commenting about.

100 lines young man:

I must not feed the racist trolls…

Many people abroad still think we are all British on these islands.

So to hell with the vast majority of people in the north who wasn’t nothing to do with these people??

King Olaf, the United Nations definition of genocide is as follows:

Excerpt from the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of Genocide
“Article II: In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

(a) Killing members of the group;
(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

Bringing massive non-native immigrants and demanding that the existing social systems adapt to support them easily falls under b,c & d, especially c: when you do this you are DELIBERATELY trying to bring about the destruction of the native Irish (in this case) population at LEAST in part. Or, are you so virulently genocidal that you cannot see this? Tell us King Olaf, what do YOU think happens to a specific population when you force them to assimilate with huge numbers of other groups (remember, they Irish people did not get to vote on their immigration policies, it was done for them by their so-called ‘leaders.’

Aboriginal peoples are also fighting this sort of genocide in Australia. If you support this genocide in Ireland, you must also support it in Australia (which would make you a genocidal psychopath.)

Yeah, your right about being desensitised to the burning of the tri colour…its just normal to see it happen now. Having said that, I never saw a union flag being burnt at Halloween while growing up. This is pretty bad though burning the Polish flag though, there isn’t even any history behind their reasoning for burning it. It just absolute hatred for Catholics.

Whatever about the parade, I don’t really care and wouldn’t want it stopped because it would go against freedom of speech. Its the bonfires the authorities should ban…I mean they have stopped many other less dangerous things for health and safety reasons!

The people who take part in it though have no hope of ever changing in my opinion. They have no future, so they can’t help living in the past.

Is the burning of the polish flag a catholic thing or a ‘they took er jerbs’ thing?