there should be a reformed option in the poll

I would love to see a reformed Seanad, where all the electorate have a vote on a nominated panel.
However, despite all the reports and proposals over the years, nothing has ever been done.
Perhaps the suggestion of abolition will provide the impetus for this, but unless it does, and I’m not convinced it will, then unfortunately,I think we may as well get rid of it.

Whatever about the cost-saving advantages to the state such an abolition would eventually be (minimal, in the grand scheme of things – but plays well with the public)….it’s time for us to admit that the Seanad is merely an antiquated institution than serves no democratic purpose but rather just feeds the egos of washed-up TDs, failed electoral candidates and fierce proponents of the Taoiseach-of-the-day.

Enda Kenny is going back on the promise to abolish the senate. Some senators are geting over 60 grand exspenses on top of their wages.

Echo @Peter. A reform option would be my vote.

If the reformation includes the right of every voter to elect a senator and not just a special few, then I’d consider it. As it is, the Seanad wastes €120million a year making it an exceptionally expensive committee/quango/talking shop for failed politicians and the odd wannabe.

cushy retirement home for ex t.d’s most of the time.im still none the wiser to what meaningful excercises they actually perform that the govt could not do without.can some1 please educate me?

Abolish immediately if not sooner, they had ample opportunity to reform over the years and only decide to now once it’s threatened. Country too small for all this

If there was a referendum on the Seanad in its current incarnation I would vote to abolish it. I think the franchise is too narrow to represent the wishes of the public and secondly the calibre of senator (outside those elected in the Universities) is lacking. Merit rather than the amount of All-Ireland tickets you can procure for councillors should be the reason you are elected to the Upper House. If the Seanad went through some kind of meaningful overhaul and was then presented to the public in a referendum I would vote to retain it. Of course it is a moot point as any reform is probably going to just white wash over the current façade, so we may as well move towards unicameral democracy if that is the case. It seems to work fine in Denmark, Sweden & New Zealand.

Given the history of Irish politicians voting against their own interests which reform will undoubtedly entail, there will be no meaningful reform, so abolish this undemocratic institution.

Certainly it should be reformed but not abolished.

It is nothing more than a Dáil waiting room for wannabe TDs. Many countries with unicameral systems operate just fine without a second house.

I’d normally say reform it but that crowd have shown that they can’t be trusted to reform it so I say tear it down and let them find real jobs.

If the Seanad is not constructive and productive then it is a waste of tax payers money.

if the seanad is so important let the senators work there for free, as a national service and a patriotic act. Maybe allow them 5k max for expenses, this will certainly bring to light the real public minded senators.

It should be abolisded. They are a bunch of freeloaders that are riping off the state.

Question- Why hasn’t the Seanad been reformed before now and why didn’t these ex Senators propose it’s reform while they were in there???????

The answer only further serves to say that it should be abolished in fact!

I can only think of one good reason to abolish the Seanad without reforming it and his name is Ronan Mullen. He’s a nasty piece of work that man. To have such a proud and virulent bigot in public office is terrifying.

let the people decide as we were promised. i say let it go; and use the money in other ways.

It’s difficult to believe that so many people on here believe that meaningful reform of the Seanad is something on which any of our current political parties would (or should) expend their energy and political capital.

Abolition of the Seanad would serve as a great first step towards one of the things that our political system really needs: reform of the Dáil.

What’s more to the point is that we as a people have voted to change the Seanad before (7th Amendment) and even this alteration that would have extended the franchise was not enacted by successive governments. Radical reform needed and more powers to the upper house. If it is scrapped it just means more power and less over sight for the executive branch of government (aka: the cabinet). Increasing the Seanad’s powers, extending the franchise and staggering the election of its members would do a lot to keep future governments in check and provide a more thorough legislative branch of government.

Our problem is too strong an executive and too weak of a legislature. And so to fix this problem we’re going to be asked to make the legislature weaker by abolishing the Seanad?? Dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb.

Abolish – €65,000 a year plus quite ridiculous expenses for a paltry three day week – many of which the poor dears cannot attend! put the €120 million into education – supply more equipment to schools instead I say

Both Labour and FG promised to abolish the Seanad if they got into power yet it hasn’t happened yet. Why does that not surprise me? What do they actually do in the Seanad anyway? Its cronyism at its best since Senators are not actually elected by the people.

The two houses could be merged into one with 50% appointed on merrit and qualifications. This might help overcome the unattractive party political hand shaking baby kissing rubber necking mindset that deters most badly needed intellegent people entering politics. Less snakes in the snake pit I say ;)

Money and size of country etc should have no place in this debate. We are talking about Ireland’s bi-cameral system, we are talking about overhauling Ireland’s entire political apparatus. To abolish the senate is to (in theory anyway) abolish another level of checks and balance. It Absolutely should be completely reformed, given more legislative and veto power and comprised entirely of elected senators, none of this universities-each-get-some-senators bullshit, but it also Absolutely should be kept.

As a side note, to think that the young lad who ran the UCD SU for a year was actively campaigning to get into the upper chamber of the Irish government based on that experience alone says it all about it’s current worth.

Really not sure would like to see someone put forward detailed reforms re procedure and elections …

Unicameral parliaments do work however the dail would need to be seriously beefed up re powers and oversight of gov

Reform it but do not abolish it, the Dail needs another house to act as a gatekeper in terms of passing laws at minimum. However the system in which the Seanad is elected does need reform along with its general function, currently it does not do enough to warrant its ongoing existence.

Separation of power is necessary to try and limit corruption, abolishing the Seanad puts more power into the Dail which will worsen the corruption that already exists there. While it might be bureaucratic the more we consolidate power and voting rights to a handful of people the more trouble we will be in again. With that said it is pure cronyism in there and that absolutely needs to change. The Dail needs major reform too in my opinion.

Needs to be reformed, but under no circumstances should it be abolished!

I believe it should be reformed. We need a bit more public involvement in the nomination procedure.

Reform it and get rid of Taoiseachs appointed senators, university constituencies and elect them all using an open party list system based on EU parliament boundaries.

Reform. The public should get to vote who goes into the senate but can the public be trusted having fallen for FG LAB lies pre last election? I’m sure Denis O Brien would give massive publicity to whoever he wanted in the Seanad

Abolishing would mean a single house for all legislation (a scary thought, not far from the current situation). Leaving as-is is pointless as it does not hold sufficient power to be meaningful. Therefore reform seems like the only reasonable option.

Serves no useful purpose whatsoever! Abolish!!n

seems thejournal missed the point of the letter which wants options to reform not just a yes no option in the referendum

There is currently no reform option on the table and no indication that either government party will drive reform should a referendum on abolition be defeated, so the options to abolish or retain as-is are rightly the only ones on offer here.

Abolishing it would only place more decision making power in fewer individuals. Needs to be reformed.

I say reform. In theory abolishing it will save money but I think it is likely any savings will be swallowed up by the usual black hole of government finances. But if the Seanad is going to be reformed then the Dáil also nees a major overhaul.

Loathe this “Get rid of it” trend…
The people who are pushing for the Seanad’s abolition are the v same who should least want a Dáil that’s under LESS scrutiny.

Has the Seanad always been effective? God no…! It’s certainly effective this time around (Govt’s been defeated 3 times since the beginning of its term). In fact, it’s the only place where the Oireachtas & the Govt aren’t necessarily the same thing!!
More to the point, the debates in the Seanad are infinitely less oppressive than the Lower House.
This is made even better by the fact that the likes of both Ronan Mullen AND Ivana Bacik are representing the Far Right & Far Left, respectively, of the Irish political spectrum!

Now take all that & imagine what could be done if it was reformed to have more tangible power! We might have something approaching a fully functioning democracy in this State!

A second house is the kind of thing that seems pointless – like an independent judiciary or separation of powers – that seems pointlessly expensive until you need it. And when you need it, you really need it, and you can’t get it in a hurry. Reform how it’s elected, direct elections from the interest groups it’s supposed to represent rather than appointments, make it smaller and more open. The current one wasn’t designed as a check on the Dáil, it was built as a “penny in the slot machine” to rubber stamp things.
http://ayoungirelander.blogspot.ie/2011/12/should-senate-be-abolished.html?m=1

Serious question – what is the purpose of the Seanad?

Reformed by the people, for the people!

Abolish the Seaned would probably do away with the only glimmer of intelligence that is the Irish Goverment.
We should seriously take a look at where our political problems stem from. Europe is a sordid dream of the D4 set who are the only people that really benifit from the european cheque book,whose balance the middle working class Irish have to endure middleage austerity to pay back.
Time to abolish the Idea that a unified Europe is for the common good. It`s only for the D4 set

Abolish the dail, keep the Seanad… Then we can keep light touch regulation for politicians.