100% – Time limits,targets and payment cut- offs can work both ways !

Superb, Christopher.

christopher, best suggestion i’ve heard in a long time!!

As I said its just an idea, I’m certain that there are recent graduates who would be more than willing and able to do the job and who are at least in tune with the realities of life in Ireland today…

Now now, Noonan said they wouldn’t be emigrating looking for work, they’d just be traveling, seeing the world.

indeed Brian. 40,000 made that ‘lifestyle choice’ last year alone…its becoming a very popular ‘choice’ indeed…its a pity that there aren’t another 167 sitting in Dublin who would do the same…

What a wonderful idea, the people must demand this. These traitors and leeches are employed by you, the people. Stand up!!!!

BRILLIANT IDEA Christopher!!!

Excellent suggestion! Well done Christopher.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5eBT6OSr1TI .. think thats all that need to said.

Well Said, Christopher.

I think we should look at reducing salaries to an average one and removing all the numerous expense accounts and other perks…for all politicians in europe first as a way of saving money rather them punishing ordinary folks for their mistakes….they might have more incentive to improve the economy and would have to increase every bodies income if they increased theirs. As it is they live in an alternative universe and are so far removed from reality that they might as well live on another planet.

Christopher has also a good point…how manny of us could do our job so badly and still remain employed at top pay scale.

@christopher day. are you mental? how could you even think of applying the same rules to an esteemed minister as would be applied to the mere mortals of this land? preposterous idea! :)

Indeed Margaret, what WAS I thinking? How silly of me to question the abilities of our wonderful government who work so hard every day on our behalf and who come up with such practical ideas…tut tut I must have a good chat with myself, naughty Christopher!

Err stress people? Its very simple there are something like 400,000 people unemployed in this country, so where are all these jobs?
Who’s going to be the one’s to deliver these “pep talks”, 99% of those in dole offices up and down the country are even more aware of the situation than most of us so I can’t imagine them being comfortable delivering them.
This whole idea is ridiculous. She may as well propose to get Harry bleedin’ Potter to conjour up some jobs, about as much chance of success.

Yes, but in order that someone is given a job there must be a job there. I think that in times of recession it is unfair to penalise people who are unable to find new work, but I do think that a sliding scale system should be applied in better economic times. Long term unemployment is a choice for some people and if there are jobs to be found, there should be an incentive to take them up.

Yes I agree with you Matt. You can’t get blood out of a stone. There are not many choices for the unemployed, when Burton forces us to get off the dole with no income, only emigration, staying and eating your own veg, or in most cases not, just eating grass, and the employed who are taking the moral high ground have probably never experienced being on the dole, and are being so snobby, oh they make me sick!

I know, those 400,000 people just got really lazy around the end of 2008 and someone needs to tell them to get up off their arses and find work – that’s definitely the solution!

Oh come on!!

People are immigrating because they want to see other countries and all on the dole are lazy shower who need kick up the back side and all politicians are clued in to what’s going on.

Or don’t you agree with current ruling party :)

Me thinks this goverment has even less ideas than the last goverment and just as corrupt

or

“Dear person who-hasn’t-looked-for-a-job-in-20-years-because-you-got-more-sitting-on-your-ass, tax payers have enough on their plate with bailing out the old boys networks and bank rolling public pensions we’re just given you notice to stop watching Jeremy Kyle and look for a job”

Not all unemployed people sit on their arses, alot have to clean the house, cook and wash clothes, and as they say womens work is never done.

I do not think it is a good idea at all. Where are the jobs for these people. Some are cheats, most are not. What are they supposed to do, go out on the street begging.

And all this from a LABOUR politicians, the supposed champions of the working class. Well there you have it, just like in the soviet union the bolsheviks murderers were the elite ruling class living the life of riley while the workers suffered, died and were ordered about by these self same self styled rulers. Worse than any king or queen.

Why is it the left always turn out to be tyrants of the people they claim to champion? Is it because they use such humanitarian causes in the first place to catapult their own egos and careers?

Do you notice how often the children of politicians end up getting the seat of the parent? What is the difference between this and the so-called tyranny of kings the west sought to abolish. Democracy is only an illusion foisted on the unthinking masses to allow a perceived respectable, perceived elected representatives into leadership positions to rule us by dictat.

I sense a massive revolt is coming to Europe and all the bankers and politicians will rue the day they lived their corrupt privileged positions, pretending to be elected by the public and pretending to serve us. They serve themselves and see themselves as better than most of us. I stopped some of the FG on the street to ask them a question about our economy and they sniggered and laughed in my face before they realised I was serious and articulate, they then tried to hide their laughing. I think we will have the last laugh.

Maybe they need a ‘pep talk’.

Government create jobs? Oh how I laughed at that one, the only jobs government ‘creates’ is for their own crony’s who they then break their own pay ceiling for in order to pay these crony’s as much as possible, oh and don’t forget the SpAds, they like to create jobs for their ‘advisors’ too after all, perish the thought that these ministers would actually know anything about what they are in charge of. Well school teachers don’t know everything you know!

Diarmuid I couldn’t agree more with you, I voted for this shower as well thinking naively thinking they too were the least worst of a bad lot in terms of the underpriviledged and unemployed. This seems like a complete knee jerk reaction from Burton, who’s fast becoming our very own Iron Lady, and I don’t mean that as a compliment. How are they going to create these 450,000 jobs that people will be expected to take up when they’re taking even more money out of the economy?All that’s going to happen is that emigration rates are going to rocket. It’s unfair and ill-thought out and smacks of desperation.

There is a lot of wising up all round between us. These people are career politicians, which would be fine if they actually were realy there to serve people and country.

I would find it a privilege to earn say 40,000 grand a year to serve the people of this country, an honour a privilege. These people see it as a burden that must be richly compensated and for that they then get to grease up all their friends. And after 20 years of jostling and cut-throating their comrades they may become taoiseach and gain the position of infamously living on in the Irish history books, as a listed mention.

This is what we are voting for. Who said that elected group of people is less dangerous and accomplishes more than a lone individual who is knows what a country needs and is prepared not to compromise until that country and it’s people is up off it’s knees and running?

How is our so-called elected democracy now better than a monarchy or dictatorship. They would probably get more done for us and not have this country hostage to international banker pirates.

Exactly.. this is the Key point…

Not to mention fueling further division and distraction from their own ineptitude!

I am sorry for your situation, but I am also glad to see it is not just construction that had this problem. I started an electrical apprenticeship in 07, back when electricians were greeting plenty of work, and the job I had kept on the people they trained. Queue recession, my job started letting people go one they were qualified because they were too expensive. Cut everyone’s rates to 90% of basic rate, and there’s no other jobs available out there.

I would also happily take a minimum wage job, but there’s not many of them out there.

@lisa
Things sound tough for you and your husband.

All you can do is keep going and remember it wasn’t the government who created this problem, they are trying to repair the sinking ship while its still sailing in the middle of the ocean

Your degree in music doesn’t mean you have to be pigeon holed forever. I originally studied music but moved on to. More lucrative career. It meant earning well below average for the first 5 years but after 10 years I was on double an average salary.

It sounds callous but I found the same after about 5 years of being underemployed and treated like an idiot, my town had only one music teacher and she had her job because she was a nun. I faced up to the reality that only special people with private school backgrounds and connections , and religious orders got proper music jobs, accepted it and moved on. Oh an don’t start me on the well heeled teachers and retirees who I was forced to compete with who couldn’t even play but undercut me on price! Sometimes you just have to face reality.

will encouragement create jobs that dont exist? do you honestly believe there are jobs out there for all these people? wake up

Erm, @Joe, I can’t speak for David, but I gather from his comment that he believes that the idea will have to take into account what jobs are actually available and whether the claimant’s skills actually meet those requirements.

if they took into account what jobs are actually available they wouldnt be doing this at all.
All it would take is for someone to look into EXactly how many jobs there were on offer in this country at the moment to see that the numbers do not add up (i bet you anything there are NOT 450,000 jobs goin or will be any time in the next two years) . this is just an excese to force more people to emigrate why cant you see that?

Oh wait.

We could start with the Dail !!! If you tot up Dail members and their cronies we could easily find 500,000 jobs…

Bit late now second last stop tomorrow

Nope, same as you can’t get a job in the understaffed dole offices – public service recruitment ban!

Well said !

Wasn’t Joan Burton in the Labour party at one time? Shows how low they have fallen, maybe they need a pep talk!

She has lost all credibility imho. I would have rated her in the past as someone who perhaps cared about more than her own self interest (naive I know) but now I honestly believe there is not a decent one among them. The whole shower of them are vermin. I’m sick to the back teeth of the disingenuous bs that they spout and their abuse of the people of this country.

I’ve never seen a party drop their core values and policies so quick in all my life. Fast becoming the greens. Eamonn Gilmore seems to have gone into hiding since the last election. And seems quite happy allowing Joan Burton continue on her path of destruction without any resistance. Is he just riding the gravy train until the next election, will he come out with more spin and lies to get re-elected and hope and pray we get rid of Fine Gael so he may achieve Enda’s goal? Toaiseach??

Hmmm I’m not sure I’d give him that much credit. I think he is completely lost and incapable. He isn’t up to the job -similar to the rest of them. They don’t know or care about what they are doing other than getting a hefty pay check and ensuring inflated pensions. This government is a disaster. We need to clean house and start all over again.

I’m not giving them any credit, believe me. But that is any politicians ultimate goal, become part of a leading government and ultimately become Taoiseach. Whether they are up to that job remains to be seen. The problem with this country is that it seems people do not need the relevant qualifications to do the job at hand. The Toaiseach appoints his ministers, not on merit it seems either. But who appoints the Toaiseach? What job interview does he have to attend only win an election. It doesn’t make sense.

Good point Fiona. I think one of the main problems with our politicians is they are too well paid. By paying them so much we are only attracting the low lives who care about little more than lining their pockets. If the wages were 1/3 of what they are we might have some chance of attracting people who truly feel the need to serve the people instead of themselves.

Well said Paul. There should certainly be a criteria a candidate must fill in order to be eligible to run in the first place.

I do not think people get it. People on the left and far-left care nothing for the vulnerable. It is the same old story when letists like the bolshevists in Russia got into power claiming they were all for the people and the worker, they got in, then a few of them ruled the roost while dictating and ordering everyone else around.

All hail commissar Burton and Gilmore.

I also know the rightwing FFers and FGers are just as bad, just in a different way of operating. What we need is a centre group who are neither left or right, just decent and with a modicum of common sense and Irish pride.

Miss Fiona, What path of destruction has joan Burton been on??? Its her job to try and cut waste and fraud
out of the welfare bill.I dont agree with her latest idea,but to suggest that she is destructive is like something
you read in the sun or some other rag that sensationalize just to sell tabloids, at least try to be constructive.

@Raynond, I presume this comment is for me? Yes, it is her job to cut waste and fraud out of the welfare bill but the way she is doing it is destructive. She is scaremongering, constantly coming out with reports that fraud is rife in the social welfare but it is not the case. The social welfare bill is at an all time high. But that is not the peoples fault. Naturally, as it is one of the biggest bills we have at the moment the pressure is on her to reduce it. But to try to reduce it by attacking the very people who are forced to claim it – that is what is destructive. She is turning people against each other. Making the taxpayer hate the welfare recipient because somehow, somewhere they are defrauding you and taking your hard earned taxes. Just how many people believe that half the people on the dole are fraudsters? The REAL fraudsters in this country are the people who defrauded the banking system. And are walking around scot free. Just the other day a man was jailed for 18 months for fraudulently claiming €14,000 in jobseekers allowance. Yet an ex politician can fraudulently claim a leaders expense of €41,000, an expense only Independent politicians are entitled to claim, while it was found she had returned to the FF party? Not one day in jail for that lady in question? Now, two wrongs will never make a right – but surely two frauds should carry the same sentence, no? And I’m not sensationalising – that is a fact. And that is only a tip of the iceberg as to what the real fraudsters in this country have got away with. Pointing the finger at the genuine social welfare recipient is destructive. It destroys peoples faith in the system and that is what she is doing.

Surely u mean the minimum wage

they dont care! this is an obvious excuse to kick people off the dole, they know full well there are no jobs for people like that and they will kick them off it wether they have made an effort or not. After all the poor bondholders and eu bankers need their cash

Quite obviously Conor you and your 76 “followers” have never found yourselves on a dole queue. Very demoralising going from 50,000 a year to 55 pounds a week. Do you really think that those on the dole want to be there?

@Joe I think myself and my “followers” are actually in agreement with you. As I already said a pep talk is all very well and good, but without jobs that match people’s skills. There should be a focus on Job creation and ensuring that people attain the necessary skills for those jobs, or do you have some problem with this?

As a matter of fact I have personal experience of unemployment. Most people in that situation just want to get back to work and regain a sense of dignity! Any kind of pep talks need to be aimed at the minority who believe that welfare is a lifestyle choice!

Apologies Joe, that was directed at Dan Delaney

true that connor but remember it is a MINORITY not the amount that the govt or media would have you believe

Great idea!!

Great idea!

Great idea Tadgh

Well said

You summed it up in a nutshell.. Well said.

Well put Mariann SHE IS TURNING OUT TO BE A HORROR I’m beyond working age but I hate what is happening to the the younger people of working age. Keep up the good fight. This country, this society is as much yours as Joan Burton’s. Neither she nor her cohorts have no right to debase our humanity in the way they are. Copy your comment to an email and send it to the Labour Party.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LTCT7QIeP8

I just said this above – but I think it applies to this comment too:
You can bet your ass this idea won’t affect anyone on “a book” like lone parents, or long term sick. I think you’ll find, a lot of the people who are “screwing the system” are well practiced in how not to get booted off the dole. Alcoholics/drug addicts who know they just have to turn up to their medical assesment drunk to get another year or two on their book, no questions asked. The people genuinely looking for work are not the problem – because they’ll take work if they find it!

I agree with you Antoinette, but I can tell you one thing if some person turned up drunk for an interview as they have “issues” and therefore cant get employment….their feet still wouldn’t have touched the ground and their arse pocket would be bare too. People like this are ideal candidates to have their payments cancelled.

Well I have known people who did that every time they were called for medical examination my social welfare. I agree that these are the people who should be left penniless, but they are not the people who will be affected by this proposal.

The sad thing is Antoinette, you are probably right. But the long-termers should be looked at first. My definition of long-termers are those who have never contributed a penny of tax in their lives.

I’ve paid little to no PAYE in the past few years, that’s due to the fact that I’ve earned too little. It’s not my fault they took the low paid out of the tax bracket. I’ve paid my PRSI, that should entitle me to help when I need it (like now) but because my partner works more than 30 hrs/wk, I’m not entitled to help with my mortgage. Because I earned so little in 09 (due to reduced work hours, and time spent training) I’m not entitled to the full €188 that a single person who’s never worked is. Because I’ve been on UB for less than 3 months, I’m not entitled to training grants etc.

Sorry for the rant, but the system is fucked, and needs to be changed, but this is not the way to do it.

I resent the long term unemployed who live on benefits and don’t want to work. I just think that something else has to be done.

rocky, as soon as u put ur hand in ur pocket u are paying tax, vat etc.
same goes for the longterm unemployed u speak so highly about.

so, to say they have never paid taxes to the state is incorrect.

i often get the feeling that u were born in the wrong time
and wrong country. I’m sure u would have shone wearing
a black uniform, sporting a shiny Luger :-)

@Antoinette, I agree totally with you. The types of people I have a problem with are the ones who have been on Social Welfare for years and years, the types who when there were jobs a plenty chose to sit around and basically not get up of their arses and get a job with the paw out. The types of people who have never contributed anyting to the system. These people in my opinion should be targetted first and formost. The poor guy who worked for 20 years and now finds himself unemployed with a family to support deserve as much assistance and help as possible to retrain and get back in there.

@Joseph: The idea that supporting the likes of Joe Bloggs who signed on the dole at 18 straight out of school, and never bothered to get up of his hole and get a job or do a course to educate himself and has been happy to do this for the last 10 years is absurd to say the least.
Just because Joe Bloggs rolls out of bed at 11 o clock and heads down to Spar for a can of Red Bull and in payying for his can is a taxpayer as there is VAT on the can is doubly absurd and I would go as far saying probably the most idiotic thing I have ever heard.

Rocky. See any similarity between your view of long-term unemployed and the British State’s view of the Irish in the 1840s?

None.

Bring back the old days when they would ship you off to Australia for stealing a load of bread!!! Would have a better life there.

Definitely agree with you there Réada. It’s far too easy for us as a nation, and the government of the day to forget about the problem and hope it will go away. Emigration and the failure of allowing people to languish on the dole long-term are not the solutions. Creating employment and up-skilling are. Minister Burton’s proposals will only work if there is something out there for the unemployed to do!

One the point of using people’s skills ion the community, it is a fabulous idea if used well! I remember about twenty years ago when my own father was unemployed, the local welfare office asked him if he would like to contribute to a local project restoring stone walls in the area. He jumped at the opportunity to feel valued and make a positive contribution to society once again. Nevertheless, the welfare office totally overlooked the skills he actually had in IT, administration and as a sales manager where he could have made a greater contribution in terms of organising such projects, administering them and securing discounts on materials purchased etc. A loss to both his self-esteem and the larger community.

It’s time for the new socialist to speak out Conor. Money is only energy and should not be given for nothing, it is merely an exchange. Nothing is better than receiving money for a job well done.

I love to see someone doing their job well whether it be making an area beautiful by cleaning or helping make someone better or by building a wall.

People’s bodies and spirit know when they’re valued and when they’re just being told to shut up and disappear back to the estate they’ve been herded into! I’m serious.

I agree ,however ,if you made this same comment a few months ago (which I had done) you would be branded uncaring and told that people did not choose to be in this situation,which is true. People need to work , for self worth and confidence . To feel that they are doing something for society,their community,their neighbourhood. New Socialism ! Sounds good
However , I do not think that a pep talk to people who are recently unemployed and can not get work is right. What about telling the people who wont work , have not worked in years and years to get off their politically incorrect asses and join society . Pull Their own weight
Seperate the chaff from the wheat . A time limit ,pep talk, that is all nonsence when there are no jobs available…..

I agree with Eileen, 3 years agio I found myself unemployed and was unable to get work for 10 months. It is incredibly demorialising to sit on the dole queue while applying for job after job and getting nowhere. The notion that people who have been made recently unemployed are quite happy to do this is quite simply not true. Of course I recognise that there are certain individuals who make a “career” of living off the state, but for the majority of poeple forced onto the dole, the very notion of a pep talk is incredibly insulting.

Exactly Edel, any pep talk for the majority of people needs to be focused on giving people hope when they are at their most despondent. There is a tiny minority who require more vigorous attention.

That is true Eyepopper. I live in a rural area, where there is absolutely no prospect of employment, I don’t drive, am unemployed, so that only leaves taking the bus, which costs alot of money. The ECB prefers we give alot of money to the senior bondholders, instead of helping the unemployed to find work after a long time. Their ancestors were nazi leaders, who stripped the jews of their eqipment, killed them, and then went to Argentina to live in luxury, so the irish govt is listening to these guys, instead of us the unemployed. We can go to hell as far as we unemployed are concerned. they don’t care about us, they’re just interested in paying off the debts to a dead bank.

You made a choice to work in the arts. I’ve a lot of respect for people who choose to spent their life doing something they love acknowledging all the risks that a life in that field may bring. I would love to have the passion determination and talent to make that decision.
Presumably you thought about the future at some point. How did you envisage you would provide for your family if your career didn’t pay?

Nobody forced you to become an artist. Please accept some responsibility for your actions.

@Rob Jones
What difference what area of work someone is in, point is,there is very little work. Artist or builder!! List could go on…..

@GillJones
I went to college, I like to draw, I don’t expect the state to pay for me to indulge my fantasies. If I’m not good enough to fund myself I don’t sit there expecting others to fork out. Sometimes we have to put our dreams on hold for a bit, accept the reality of the situation and move on.

Thats good to know Rob, good for you. But the FACT is there are few job opportunities and mass unemployment. It does not matter what profession a person does/ has or wants to do, the fact and the “reality of the situation” remains the same…mass unemployment. I hope you remember your own words next time you go see a movie, listen to music or indulge in something creative! This island is bad at the moment and would be a hell of a lot worse it there were no arts. Louis Le Brocquy would agree with me, i’m sorry you dont.

Who was the guy??? Did you bother to find out? probably don’t call it spin 103.8 for no reason, hard to believe that someone would turn down 30k, I would nt, and I doubt the majority of the 450,000 others would nt either, so maybe check the facts and put the tar-brush back in the bucket!

Gerard i 110% agree with you, the talk show and gut on it were genuine though…..i think its madness she did not take the job, my point is…and you must have missed it, was certain people on the dole are getting way to much. It’s not the persons fault, its common sense that you would pick the higher money, whether its the dole or working as a living, my point is the dole / tax system is flawed. Nobody should even think twice about whether they should choose the dole over working, when it comes to which would earn you more!

There was also an article a while ago in one of the papers, ( not The Sun btw ) cant remember which, but it did state that a couple, depending on there circumstances cound earn 90k a year on the dole. This was actually confirmed by the Dept of Social Welfare. And People wonder why this country is f*****

Still like to know the guys name !!!????
90,000 on the dole if you have 10 kids, probably incl childrens allowance , which everone gets , prob incl rent allowance which goes to landlord (landlords gets 500 million euro annually in rent all) , probably incl monetary value been put on medical card! But here is something you wont read in the same paper I know a guy (can be verified and is truth) who was unemployed, married two kids, huge mortgage…took a job working at minimum wage, but can only survive with aid of family income supplement, he cant afford to go outside the door! meanwhile his boss pulls up outside the job in a brand new BMW, paid for from the proceeds of slave labour and from people like you, whose taxes go to subsidise slave labour, but you wont read that in the paper! probably an even bigger reason why the country is f@@@ed

I was told by my current employer that someone turned down a job as the salary of €35k was not worth it based on all the benefits this person was getting between medical card, dole, rent allowance, child benefit etc.
I know someone else who has been on and off the dole for near 4 yrs. Off dole only to do Fas course. She was offered a job and wouldn’t even take the interview cause it was door to door selling which is “below her”‘!!!!

@paula I am not denying there is abuse in the system! there is abuse in all systems, off hand could you tell me how much was taken from tax evaders last year? Probably not? I would not be surprised if you did nt know as it does not get plastered all over the papers and tv as welfare abuse does! (btw it was over 300million euro). They also get refered to as “tax defaulters” , compare that with the terms used to define welfare abusers! The truth is that prior to the bust unemployment was below 100,000, which is considered full employment, as there would be people on the list who would be working part time etc, Therefore there are over 350,000 people on the dole , through no fault of their own, incidently they are unemployed due to a recession caused by “the wealthy” , many of whom are now the ones attacking the welfare system! In the last year there were reports that snitching on people on welfare had reached a new high, is it not a pity that we did nt have the same public suspicion about Bankers, the Church etc, might have prevented all the misey we are going through now !

I don’t think that is representative of the majority of jobseekers out there. I recently applied for a 25k job which I didn’t get in the end after the interview. I would have been delighted to be earning that. Compared to what I get on the dole, it would have made a big difference to my life.

Probably not. She’s too far up her own arse.

Learn from Germany’s model? A two-tier system where those eligible receive the equivalent of €2,200 earnings per month and those not eligible have a “minijob” scheme which pays as whopping €400 per month? Don’t look to Germany for well-balanced social security and civil service systems…

I take it you have a job. Do you know anyone sitting on their arse?

I know alot who ‘were’ sitting on their arses, and the recession is a further excuse to do f*ck all. This, granted is probably the minority now, as genuine folk are loosing their jobs, but yes, there are several area’s in any city across Ireland where unemployment was acceptable

very well put

I am angry about your comment that unemployed people can afford to go to the cinema. The fact is that they cannot afford to go and see a film, or go to the pub, or have a meal out or buy clothes, so don’t you dare make that assumption, and it is very dangerous for you to generalise. I am unemployed, and I haven’t been to the cinema for about two years, and I haven’t been to the pub for absolutely ages, or I never go to town. I hope that you never have to go on the dole, and I assume that whoever you are, you have a well paid job. The senior bondholders of Anglo are the real criminals here. I also haven’t been on a two week holidays a year for ages either.

Have lots of comments been removed? The journal android app says 107 comments, yet when I scroll down to the comments it says 17.

Sorry, 104 and 17

Hi, I haven’t removed any of the 124 comments – however I am currently reading through all of them so any that are libellous etc may be removed in the near future. To date nothing has been removed however.
Are you viewing the site online or via a mobile device?
Thanks
A

I can see the earlier comments on the site, but not on the android app

Journal journos regularly point out that “apps” can only show a limited number of comments. They’re working on it, apparently…

three rich people disliked your comment

Well done for assuming that people who are unemployed dont take responsibility for themselves, don’t know what’s involved in building a successful career and need a date to help focus them.

Lets not kid ourselves, those who want to work are already focused, those who dont will find some way around this like they do everything else (unfortunately those people are part of most western societies). This this isn’t about focusing people, it isn’t about encouraging them, educating them or helping them, its about 1 quite simple thing, massaging the live register.

Dear State,
You appear to think that you are in some way apart and different from me the citizen so let’s just recap here. I am a citizen, the fundamental building block of the state. I have been in the workforce and paying tax since I was fifteen. I attended an averfage school and went straight in to work when finished rather than going to college. I served an apprenticeship during which I worked for below minimum wage and paid tax on it. Later in my life I retrained and reeducated myself and worked with some of the most vulnerable people in the state-I saw this as good citizenship. I am now unemployed with little prospect of finding employment any time soon but, being a good citizen of the state, I have paid all my taxes and PRSI for just this eventuality. I don’t need the state to tell me how hard the road to employment is, I have walked that road many times in my life and am quite offended by the trite, stupid, vaccuos, unthought out right wing claptrap that passes as a response from “The State” or perhapd the writer of the grossly insensitive piece sees him/herself as being more a part of the state than me?

@MickCorrigan
apologies. I knew it was wrong writing that. I haven’t experienced all that you have. There are those that have worked and have seen the rug pulled from under them. Unfortunately, I see those who have been given every opportunity and choose to ignore it.
I have tarred all with the same brush because I see some unemployed relaxing everyday as I go to work and on my way to college at night. I wonder why I bother working hard to fund the lifestyle choice of a few.

Frustration hurts on both sides.

Duplicitous State,

I am neither rightwing or leftwing.

I am people wing…Irish people wing and we are coming for you.
Then after you are deposed, we will provide jobs that you have destroyed and are just not there, including the supposed self made jobs.

If you only have to pay €35 as a couple per week, I’d still call it very generous. Where can I rent a one-bedroom for €140/month?

My friends were getting (and likely still are, like other tens or hundred of thousands) as unemployed couple, almost €700 out of the €800 their total rent was.

“How about ordering everyone on the dole”
I have issues with that comment on a number of things.

I don’t like the thought of people being bullied (ordered) into doing things.
If they don’t want to re-train as a marine biologist, why the hell order them to??

Many, many people on the dole have spent their entire lives in a single profession. They left school at a very early age, with some not having a leaving cert. They enjoyed their jobs, they made a life from those jobs. They owe everything they have on those jobs and yet you would ask them to ‘humiliate’ themselves by sweeping the streets?? The country might be broke, people might be jobless but damnit they still have some self dignity!

Your attitude is not what this country needs right now.

Aranthos Faroth, I agree with some of your points, I understand that you might think that there would be a reluctance for people out there to retrain, but as a 40 yr old mature student I will be doing all I can to make sure that I make myself as employable as possible, you are implied that sweeping the streets is humiliating, I would gladly sweep the streets too fund college, there is no shame in honest work. I dont get a grant as I live in my mothers house and I am expected to get pocket money from my mother. I live in my mothers house along with 3 other generations of my family, my elderly grandmother who is not well. My sister and her children, who have moved in while they are putting the money together to go to Australia. There are 8 of us living in the house, we each do voluntary work. As much to escape all the other people in the house as to have a sense of purpose . It is not an ideal situation, I am always broke, but I am one of the lucky ones, I appreciate what I do have, and although this country is in a terrible mess, I am hopeful.

Just to clarify, it is Feeds who site Knob!

Arantos Faroth, I am sorry but if there’s no jobs in what people can do, their professions are nothing but hobbies in that reality.

If I studied philosophy, should I sit on the dole, refusing jobs that are not philosophical? Because this is what you are proposing. Do you think everyone around works in their original trained profession? You’d be surprised how many people at cash registers working their asses off selling crap to unemployed aristocracy have higher education.

Times change quick. My profession didn’t exist when I finished school and anyone can learn to do what I do quite well in a year or two.

I don’t mean to bully people to do what they don’t think suits them. I just want to stop the insanity of paying people for not doing anything. It is not only economically absurd and devastating, it is also unjust—to forcibly tax people who work in order to pay others to do nothing. It may be called “social justice” but it is a perversion of good old “normal” justice.

The only explanation for paying for nothing is that the unemployed are huge electorate and will vote for those Robin Hoods who extort from the working to give to the relaxing themselves on the couch. They have the real power to tax the working. Have you noticed how taxes go up every year and the dole is barely touched? This is why.

“Humiliate themselves sweeping the streets”? Really? Since when working a broom is more humiliating than sticking your hand out and signing at the welfare office? How demoralised are we to have our values twisted around like that?

I suggest to help those people by giving them simple jobs, not handouts. You’d be surprised how many of them will find proper jobs instantly if they had to work for their dole. Of those unemployed I know? All of them, I am sure.

That is not true at all. I have heard many many Irish people who cannot get work and will gladly work in McD’s just to do something, anything to be out and about, contributing to their home and providing an honest service and honourable work for themselves.
Many are turned away. Many employees want to employ east europeans, also for immigrants from outside the EU, you do not have to pay them minimum wage, you can pay them up to 3 euro an hour because there is a loophole by which you can pay them because they are not tied to the minimum wage, as they are not resident until they are here for 5 years.
Then as you can imagine, in jobs with high rate turnover, employers can have that go on with such immigrants indefinitely and hugely reduces their costs. Although I am very much against immigration as a policy, I abhor treating any human in this manner.

Brian, “for immigrants from outside the EU, you do not have to pay them minimum wage, you can pay them up to 3 euro an hour because there is a loophole by which you can pay them because they are not tied to the minimum wage”.

I can’t see any exception in the minimum wage rules for non-EU immigrants (there’s not too many of those anyway in comparison to the EU immigrants). Please refer us to somewhere that shows this.

Obviously this is not going to be an adverstised official line. The government do not want to admit to this, like they have lied about many things over the years.

However these loopholes do exist with the following example highlighting these varied cases and ways of getting around the minimum wage:

Irish Workers Protest Immigrant Hires

By SHAWN POGATCHNIK
Associated Press Writer
December 9 2005, 10:59 AM EST

DUBLIN, Ireland — More than 10,000 labor union members protested Friday in Ireland’s capital and other cities over shipping company Irish Ferries’ plan to replace its workers with low-paid Eastern European immigrants in the country’s most bitter industrial showdown in decades.
Irish Ferries, a subsidiary of Dublin-based Irish Continental Group PLC, earlier this year offered its 543 unionized workers on its main Britain-Ireland routes payoffs worth 25 million euros ($30 million) if they quit voluntarily.
But when the company two weeks ago began introducing new workers, chiefly from Latvia — who were willing to work for 3.60 euros ($4.25) an hour, less than half of Ireland’s minimum wage — union chiefs seized control of two ships, forcing the company to shut down services at an estimated loss of 2 million euros ($2.5 million) a day.
…Irish Ferries insists it’s legal for an international shipping company to ignore Ireland’s minimum wage, and has applied to register its ships in Cyprus to increase its leverage on the issue.
The government has harshly criticized Irish Ferries and pushed, so far in vain, for a mediated compromise.

Members of several unions, including teachers and bus drivers, gathered in Dublin’s Parnell Square, the home of several labor-union headquarters, for a march across the River Liffey to the parliament building, Leinster House.
Many carried placards said that read, “Stop outsourcing,” a reference to the increasing practice of hiring low-paid immigrants from Eastern European states. More than 150,000 workers from the European Union’s most recently admitted states, chiefly Poland and Latvia, have taken up jobs in Ireland in the past 18 months and are prominent in restaurants and pubs, and on construction sites and farms.
David Begg, secretary-general of the union congress, rejected accusations that the protesters were hostile to immigration. He said unionized workers wanted to stop “the suppression of wage rates in this country.”

@William
“non-EU immigrants (there’s not too many of those anyway in comparison to the EU immigrants)”

Are you sure? The census figures are not accurate as stated in 2006 by Conor Lenihan, and that they have no real indication of how many immigrants are in the country.

Trade Union leaders challenged the accuracy of immigration figures in Sept. 2007. ICTU said the census(2006) count of 11,000 Chinese in Irl was far short of the 100,000 chinese that observers said are actually here.The census said 63,000 Poles, the Polish embassy said the real number was as high as 200,000.

source:Sunday Times 2/09/09

So 10 times the number of Chinese, 3.5 times the number of Poles, how many more Africans, Pakistanis etc, are here above what is stated?
Also many EU citizens work and save to buy a home back in their EU country, whereas when 3rd world people get into Europe they are here to stay.

So what happens to all the 18 year olds that have just left school, never worked in their life, and can’t find work due to no experience?

But then again, I do like the idea that you think someone who’s been working the past 20 years could stay on the dole for 20 years. …yet a college graduate would get nothing?

Kids still living with their parents should not get the dole. Ever.

kids living with their parents don’t get the dole. Ever.
you have to be 18 years old to qualify.

And once you’re 18 and out of full time education, your parents no longer get children’s allowance towards your keep and can’t claim you as a dependant, for tax or any other purpose. You need a job or SW to pay your keep. You will only get €100/wk while living with your parents, which is not enough to support yourself.

and david, if they were to cut off the ‘kid’ living at home
wouldn’t the ‘kids’ just move out and then look for rent allowance,
costing the state more?

c’mon, i would have thought that u being the political giant and member
of Fine Gael would have thought that fully through…
ahhh… what am i talking about…
thought it through… d’oh!!

you have had 10 years to figure out what you want to do, here is an idea. educate yourself and get out there and get a job…just an idea.

@Rocky 400,000 job seeker. How many jobs do you think there are in this economy? Educate yourself

@Andy. Anyone who has been on the dole for the last ten years and is NOW worrying about their payments being cut as they NOW cant find a job should take a long hard look at themselves in the mirror. This country had 4% unemployment during the boom. Whether you were happy out making rolls in a deli, labour on a site or do whatever, you could find a job, there was jobs for everyone if you were bothered to get up of your hole and walk 100m and find one.

If you bothered to read my first post you would see that I have no issue with the “recent unemployed”, those who have worked all their lives and now find themselves unemployed since the crash. I think these people are the ones who need to be supported. These are the people swamped in debt with mortgages and families, I have no sympathy for the type of person who was unemployed for the past 10 years during the “Boom”. These peope need to educate themselves and get out there and if not…snip snip..no benefits for you son!!

Ok Rocky. Snip snip. Then what?

….your payments are slashed..snip!

Yep. Get that bit. Then what?

Well……you better sort yourself then matey if you want to eat. The taxpayer wont be paying….

You can bet your ass this idea won’t affect anyone on “a book” like lone parents, or long term sick. I think you’ll find, a lot of the people who are “screwing the system” are well practiced in how not to get booted off the dole. Alcoholics/drug addicts who know they just have to turn up to their medical assesment drunk to get another year or two on their book, no questions asked. The people genuinely looking for work are not the problem – because they’ll take work if they find it!

David there’s no difference between any of the 3 parties who formed the last two governments. Just a different shower robbing the people of Ireland.

And what would you call them, David? Are you one of those people who say “it’s all Fianna Fails fault, they left us this mess?”.. Because Fine Gael and Labour were in the room. Or are we to believe that when Fianna Fail were making all these deals and decisions that Fine Gael and Labour were having a sick day? And all the decisions that have been made since FG/LAB have come into power has been Fianna Fail’s fault too?

@Fiona Yes. FF gave up fiscal sovereignty to the TROICA, did you not get the memo? That was what all of that fuss was about. Since 2009 there has been a MASSIVE deficit between what the state takes in revenue and what the state pays out. FF DID NOT SHARE POWER. That aside, expecting the unemployed to live on NO Income when there are NO jobs available is only asking for crime and the black economy to grow.

Please don’t get me wrong Andy, I am in no way trying to state that Fianna Fail are blameless in this whole scenario, I am merely stating that FG and Labour were present in the Dail when all of this was going on. So they had a heads up. And the cynic in me believes that they knew exactly what was happening, knew that Fianna Fail were on a massive landslide and they just rolled with it to achieve their own goals. To either be a leading party or part of a coalition. Enda Kenny has certainly achieved his life goal.

What has that to do with the question. Its a seperate issue. Subsidies for farmers are paid by EU, RTE is a joke and needs to be sorted. All countries give concessions to companies to get the jobs. Look at the amoount of jobs in this country from “pretentious American Companies” Microsoft for example should just leave?

@Eugene O’Rourke: Simple economics.

Companies should make money from customers not politicians. Its called supply and demand.

If companies are forced to work through customers then they would be less inclined to put them on he dole in the first place. No dole queue and plenty of customers should be good for the society. Why asset strip Ireland and give it all away.

@Loyal Citizen. Makes no sense when on international stage. If you want to get mutinationals in you have to give them a carrott or else go elsewhere. It happens worldwide. Ireland is competing against the rest of the world and your answer is for companies to make money through supply and demand. Yes that is the natural course after they come here but to get them here in the first place you need to incentivise them. One of Ireland’s main exports is computers yet we dont have a household computer name for an Irish company such as HP etc Do we say goodebye to those jobs? I want to see politicians creating jobs as thats one of there main jobs. Do you want them creating jobs?

I dont understand where you are going with the asset stripping as without these companies we will lose more of our greatest asset which is our people. A lot of companies at present are forced to make jobs redundant and its not great for a company to be doing. If it is its obvious its struggling so less profit and reduced trade which is not good for the company or employees. Some companies have left Ireland as better terms in other countries but thats business and the sooner we accept thats how it is the faster we can move on. Look at all the new companies in Ireland recently who are looking to expand like Facebook. i dont know how they are asset stripping Ireland.

@Eugene O’Rourke: I can’t see why we have an education system that trains people to work for the yanks.

Train Irish People to develop their own products and then the yanks could work for them.

I would never have allowed the yanks here. There are enough Irish People who do have talent to invest in to choose their own destiny.

@Loyal Citizen. Your comment says it all really. So short sighted considering the amount of people employed by American Companies and also the trade we have with the USA. Great economic sense to cut off all those connections. Business is global now we cant be living in a vacuum of little old Ireland.

@Eugene O’Rourke: If you know about technology then you will understand how much comes from Asian countries.

Why do Irish Politicians only finance the yanks? What’s wrong with Japanese, Chinese, or other Asian technologies?

These American do not have a monopoly on brains and the world is a much bigger place. In terms of rules it is most likely that the Irish are being kept in servitude and it will result in more emigration. Only time will tell.

@Loyalirish. There is more than American companies that benefit from incentives. Have you not heard how they are trying to break into the BRIC countries recently. Japanease companies are based here but it is easier to do business with a country you have a historical connection with (Irish Americans) to get you in the door. We as a nation always dealt with the USA and should maintain that relationship aswel as getting into new markets. Either way I dont think there is much point in discussing it as you are so anti-american it is pointless. America is bad seems to be the only answer you can give but when you consider the thousands or Irish employed by American Companies I think America is good for us along with other markets.

@Eugene O’Rourke: I can’t imagine why you mention BRIC Countries.

Irish Politicians lost the European Funds in 1997 on a graduated basis. There is no evidence to say that they have the money to encourage companies from other countries here to create jobs in the same way as they did for Americans.

There have been very few Asian Companies here getting the same quantity of funds as Americans and the consensus is that Irish Politicians put all of their eggs in one basket.

The subsidies are no longer and you seem to be in favour of financing American Corporations until nothing is left. Maybe they should have financed the Irish and kept the money in the country.

I do not consider that I am anti American but i do object to asset stripping Ireland and giving all to Americans just for jobs, it keeps people in servitude and is a crime.