A pair of joy stomping misery guts

Typical Socialist. Act without thinking. Realise the mistake. Then ask for someone else to pay for it.

Funny that, sounds exactly like the banking crisis – damn those socialist banks.

It’s no coincidence that this extra funding to politicians came into being at the height of Bertie’s tenure.

Although I think it’s fair to say that all of the other political parties supported it, if I’m not mistaken.

Those in Leinster House clubbed together and grabbed a massive electoral advantage over potential future challengers.

If there’s to be no more state funding for political parties how do you propose they raise money? State funding is the best way to maintain some oversight over the system rather than allowing parties to raise money solely through fundraising from corporate sources which raises important ethical questions.

I for one would certainly be suspicious of anybody with wings. Politician or not!

With good reason, I’m afraid. And I’d count myself as a lefty.

@Nikolas: I think that the left here had some excellent candidates and some credible plans. However, as soon as they start explaining their plans they’re ridiculed.
The same as SF wants to make a point it’s very normal to point out that they are terrorist. This is not only from other politicians, but also in the media this is common practise.
That is not debating, that is bullying.

It’s almost funny though that when the left screamed for burning the bond holders this was nothing but fantasy economics while people are screaming for it to stop.
People want the rich and the financiers to pay up what owed, but when the left says this it’s ‘unrealistic’.
people want their services to keep on running, but vote for a treaty that supports only austerity and when the left say there are alternatives, the only thing mentioned is how unrealistic this is and that they only want to borrow more…

@ Mark, I can’t agree with you, I’m afraid. The lion’s share of the blame for the lack of credibility of he Irish left-wing lies with the politicians themselves, not with their detractors. I don’t mean to get the boot in, but they are shameful and drag left-wing deals down into a Big Brother ( TV not Orwell) vote. I moan about this a lot here, so I shouldn’t repeat myself, but I will, as it’s a boring Monday evening :-)

The various left-wing politicians have not been able to establish any clear agenda. Everything is in flux and so they are thematically closer to anarchism than socialism. They distrust any and all government decisions, not because the decisions are wrong, but because they are decided by the government. This is James Deanism long past it’s sell by date and does not aid their credibility. Quite simply, there seems to be absolutely no difference between the multitude of left-wing political entities, it’s like going to a supermarket for a tube of toothpaste and getting lost in the choice of a thousand different brands.

Left-wing politics is based on the notion of solidarity. The current crop of left-wing politicians seem to be obsessed with discovering and exasperating fissures between the various left-wing entities. Capitalism favours and benefits from competition, it is lunacy to promote competition amongst politicians under a left-wing banner. Fragmentation is always the death of left-wing movements.

The left-wing has to stop being so populist. Compared to the last generation of socialists, who were highly intellectualised and could bore the hind legs off a donkey with their cultural analysis, the new wave of left-wingers are anti-intellectual and have no respect for the workers and their potential voters. They make claims that are clearly untrue, unworkable and only has value as propaganda. Any left-winger has to stop this crazy charade and stand by their political ideals; it’s not popular, but any serious left-wing group should clearly state that they have no intention of decreasing tax revenue, and in fact that should state that their aim is to increase at revenue. That is not to say that the tax system and public sector should not be reformed, or that a renegotiation of the banking debt is urgent and necessary, but socialists making blanket statements against tax.

All the left-wing parties and collectives, especially SF ( although I don’t consider SF to be a left-wing party, they swim in the same waters but are a very different beast ), need to immediately send a stern message from on high that the grass-roots supporters need to stop insulting people, verbally assaulting people, disrespecting people and making ridiculous and ignorant statements without even a pretense of backing them up with fact. Right now, the grass-roots supporter are the best reason not to vote for a left-wing group, as they act like bullies and thugs.

Lastly, and most importantly, all left-wing parties, groups, collectives and individuals need immediately to respect the wishes and decisions of the voting public. The referendum is the perfect example of this. The public voted, but the vocal left-wing supporters simply ridiculed the decision of the voters. This attitude along with the oft-repeated phrases of “The Irish people are sheeple” and “tax ,payers are idiots” shows a level of contempt for the Irish people, those who the politicians re mandated to protect, and so is not only insulting, it’s fundamentally anti-democratic.

And that’s why I believe the left-wing have continuously shot themselves in the foot and will continue to do so.

@Nikolas
I agree that the left is fragmented and lacks focus. I also fully agree that SF is a whole different beast. Although there are much commonalities between the left and SF, they are nationalists and some rather fanatic ones.

That said, I still think that here in Ireland there is a tendency to ridicule the left. It is simply laughed or honed away. There is a huge distrust to what a socialist party does or says. I’ve heard so many interviews where the interviewer attacked them straight away without giving the time or opportunity to explain things they’d give to FG or FF.
This is part of how the system works: a journalist can live without the SP, but not without the other two. Therefore he/she is already starting from another point. And we’ve seen how easily FF and FG ignore the journalists they don’t like.
When a deputy attacks the leader of SF and labels him a criminal in a debate, this is accepted. Therefore indicating that whatever point he makes, it comes out of the mouth of someone who we can’t trust.

I often compare the Irish as sheep. People are nicely herded the same tricks time after time.
This isn’t soly the Irish, as we saw the Greeks jump nicely in line as will most of the EU population.
When the referendum was announced I truly hoped that the Irish would have something of a rebel in them and looked at Iceland, but the result proofed that when it comes to money they gladly sign away their sovereignty and dignity to salvage a sunken ship, rather then standing their ground.

So I tent to remind people every time they moan about bankers, bod holders or cuts about the referendum and their chance to say no, no more.

An excellent honest analysis Nikolas. Well said….

@ Mark, I’ve two questions for you:

1. Where do you stand on the tax system?

2. Where do you stand on respecting the will of the people as recording in a national vote?

Please don’t call the Irish population sheep. I am a member of that group, as are my friends and family. I presume you ate in the same position. Do you not understand that calling people sheep is insulting the people you are supposedly defending, and that insulting people is no way to win their support, their respect and, most importantly, their votes?

@Nikolas: I’m not sure what you mean with “how I stand on the tax system”, but I can tell you what I think of it. :-)
I think in general people here are paying a reasonable amount and get very little in return. I do believe in taxes and believe they are needed. That said, in Ireland the isn’t any value for money.
The lack of transparency and the bullying of the household charge is bugging me.
Rather then lump sums, every penny the state and local councils spend should be public and for all to see. There’s too much cloak and dagger in this country.

I have no other option but to accept the choice of the people of this nation, but that doesn’t mean I have to like or agree with it.
To me, someone who voted yes certainly lost their right to complain about any banker or bond holder and the inevitable budget cuts that were part of that horrible deal. They said they’d agreed with this and endorse this governments position.
Especially a Labour politician who dares to say that the proposed cuts from the HSE are ‘politically unacceptable’ really needs to think twice.
Perhaps contradictory, I do believe in a monetary and fiscal union, but not in this way. Not in a situation where a few nations and the EU civil servants can dictate the terms.

It’s hard not to call people sheep when they’re so easily managed and pushed around. E.g. Look at that household charge. People refused to pay, but as soon as it got serious, the government just had to threaten them and then sent a letter and the good people jump back in line. The dog barked and the sheep corralled. The lack of courage and backbone isn’t a trade I personally admire or respect.
Again, that isn’t only the Irish. It seems that all over the EU people are to scad to stand up against bankers. The fear of loosing their money is greater then their sense of justice and morality.

@ Mark – another commenter has hotten right up my nose this evening, so sport for being brief, but I don’t want to take my anger out in you. I asked you some questions, you replied, so you deserve a response. Apologies for my abruptness.

1. You are still skating around the tax issue. Let’s be very clear about this, the aim of socialism with regards tax would be to remove as much wealth out of private hands and put it under the remit of the state. In a strict socialist state, all wealth would be held by the state, and no wealth wo

@Nikolas, no worries. I might not completely agree with you, but I enjoy reading your comments on my own and others posts.

It’s a difficult one as I’m not a true socialist. I like a lot from socialist kook book, but not the whole meal, so to speak:
The state should own and manage everything, that just doesn’t work.
The state should own and manage the infrastructure as this is a key part of
Running a country, but should allow for
Private companies to utilise this infrastructure to get the optimal benefits that capitalism brings.
If the state would own the

A person who build a company and who creates work deserves their rewards, but why do some earn only 17k while others in that same organisation should earn millions is beyond me.

I strongly believe in means testing. Why should someone who earns 150k or more still get the same amount of child allowance?
Why not let them pay a higher tax?
Let them pay more for a crèche so that this who earn 17k can use the crèche for a minimal amount.

As with many thing I drift in between and don’t believe there is but one system.
Does that makes sense? :-)

Oh Dear Reada I think you are a little upset. The Chief hanger on whose loft perch in Leinster House now looks a little bit of a joke when reality bites and she scraps over Public monies like a hungry cur on the back streets of Calcutta.
Where did it all go wrong or perhaps to be more correct when did it ever go right for the extremists in Irish politics. Classic hangers on with a gripe against everyone and everything. The bottle was for ever half empty and it was always somebody else’s fault.
Like the Leaders of our Trade Union Movement with contrived working class accents and pronunciation with words like “utherly” they have had first class seats for years in the old gravy train and Clare finally joined them. Her route to that perch was a bit more circuitous with the Labour Party finding her a bit too rough and to get her ticket she did a marketing spell in Mountjoy for a little civil disobedience. Voila in an Election like no other she got the limelight and the Seat. Up on the perch beside the devil incarnate as far as Joe is concerned. That old warrior in a fit of pique and jealousy told her that her friends weren’t the right sort of people and she slipped from the perch.
Now taxpayer her own it’s only minutes before she’s demanding her lump of taxpayers money that makes these Socialists look worse than any other grouping in Leinster House because they have been arch critics of the very system they’ve bled for all they could.
Yes Reada when you suddenly wake up and your clothing is saturated with a rank and salt encrusted substance called sweat it’s because you just had a nightmare and then you lash out at everyone else as if it’s their fault yet again.
Grow up .

Réada, people are not right-wingers if they don’t like ULA/SP/PBP etc. and the likes of Clare Daly do little or nothing to endear themselves to the average working person. There is plenty of coverage on here for Phil, James et al. with all you anti everything types on shouting nonsense so y’know give the rest of us a break for once and allow us our time to make comments.
Clare Daly has let socialism down by not outright condemning an serious tax dodger, by not supporting her party policies and now she is squabbling over money even though we have repeatedly been told how she ONLY takes home the average industrial wage. It just shows that she is a capitalist after all and worse than that a hypocrite for her support of Wallace. So yes this is worth coverage because it is political news today just as your beloved HHC was boring the eyes off most people with the amount of coverage it was getting.

I didn’t say that everyone who commented was a right-winger EMD although the two you paired yourself with today are. I know you’re not but you are toeing the Green party line by paying the HHC and I respected that if you remember.

I still respect members of other political parties who work in the Ireland’s interests not in the interests of financial institutions and I make no apologies for that. Smack away.

Reada sf must be giving classes in “whataboutery”. You are learning fast. Keep on topic if you can and accept that this a body blow for the ula. The attempt to grab the money by daly is pathetic and she has let down the people who voted her in to the Dail.

I have no warm feelings towards Ms Daly in any way whatsoever, but you are absolutely right.

It explained later in the interview that it is due to legal reasons that the party can not now give any funding to Clare.

Bring on the barrage of thumbs down for having the nerve to suggest that a politician actually keeps money they are entitled to, but its like the old prisoner dilemma where if they both stay quite about it they both win.