And nurses arguably have a much tougher job than teachers. Incredibly under rated workers in this country.

Sarah, I suggest you try a stint teaching, and you may change your mind on which job is the tougher. Both jobs have their stresses, but what job doesn’t?

Gavin don’t forget the Croke Park Agreement will come to an end soon!

I wish it wasn’t called the croke park agreement, I love croke park

Ageed Richard, those unions happily allows this system to exist, sure they will blame the government and might spout off the odd time to make it look like they are interested in the welfare of their new members but as long as the old guard are protected they don’t give a SH8t. We all know for example of a maths teacher that maybe teaching for 20 years, just returning back to school after 3 months off on full salary off , maybe corrected state exams for another couple of grand on top of the salary , maybe even 30 or 40 grinds leading up to the exams (all declared of course). I suppose this type of teach doesn’t exist eh ??? Sure the unions will talk about pension cut whilst ignoring the fact of 450,000 have no Jobs , or many that do work that have no pension at all or those that luckiy enough to have one have been wiped out twice in 8 years . ah poor old teachers .BTW i do respect and value the profession and know many great teacher but those unions ……………..

Yup totally agree, cuts in private sector salaries were across the board regardless of when the employee started in the company. % cut across the board to level the playing field.

Wait what, the vast majority of graduates start on less than €25,000. And the vast majority of graduates who have completed a Level 8 course have completed at least four years of university. This is a common Irish problem, everyone thinks they are low paid and their neighbour earns more than them, when they don’t!

All teachers require a postgraduate diploma, which will be two years long from next year. A potential six years training. Not the same.

I think you’re living in Irish salary expectation cuckoo-land. Go talk to a person with a Masters or PhD and ask them their starting salary. I think you’ll be surprised that many start on below €27,000. Teachers aren’t the only people in the world with a postgrad you know. Also primary school teachers do not need a postgrad.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/graduate-salaries-plummet-to-a-dismal-400-a-week-2124158.html

I don’t believe National School Teachers require a post graduate diploma, in fact until this year it’s a 3 year undergraduate program to qualify.

The unions no longer represent the views of the majority of teachers. Rather than protecting the “old guard” as has been alleged above, they protect themselves first and foremost.

Clearly the cleaners are overpaid so let’s immediately reduce their wage and while we’re at the task we need an urgent Benchmarking 11 that will bring all public salaries and wages down by thirty per cent on average to match those of the private sector. If a qualified teacher is now being paid less than a Hospital cleaner that’s the obvious solution.

This type of comment really annoys and is typical of a lot of clueless teachers. Most graduates have 4-6 years education now as a masters is almost mandatory at this stage to distinguish yourself from the crowd. There is nothing special about a teacher’s training or their “postgrad” that entitles them to an exorbitant starting salary. I don’t know any graduates starting near €27k. I know an engineering graduate started on €23k and a poor sap who has a degree and masters, started a trainee accountant job for €15k. Not only that but he has 3 years of ACA exams to look forward to with very low pass rates. Most teachers have a bloody arts degree, are glorified babysitters and expect €35k starting salaries. Get real.

Well said Sarah. That is reality.

Do you really want solidarity Daisy? Public sector terms and conditions are still a lot more favourable than elsewhere. Rather than play the divide and conquer game, there could be a reasonable discussion of this – or perhaps not. The attacks happen because the majority of public sector workers refuse to understand this: Croke Park.

This cut has been in place for over 18 months now.

So now that means its suddenly more difficult to become a primary teacher? Are the 3 year degree teachers now less qualified? It’s all so arbitrary.

Yup Id like to know where they’re making up the 11,000 as well. Before 1/1/11 teachers were on 30,904 when they first started, now they start on €27,814, if I’m reading the doc on the TUI website right. Throw in an allowance for a 1H degree in Education priced at €1,236 prior to ’11 thats still 4326 odd only….

http://www.tui.ie/_fileupload/TUI%20Salary%20Scales.pdf

Alan. Newly qualified teachers no longer receive any allowances. That’s the bulk of the cut.

Maybe the bashing continues because public sector unions are making it so easy to. were 4 years into this mess now and there have been no real reforms or the remotest inkling of a move towards them.

Completely wrong , this is about a unions that protect existing members over the interests of the wider profession. Now i know that it is the remit of union to protect members but dont talk S7it about young teachers that they do nothing to protect .What sort of a union would let politicain hold their place for years while they are off ruining the country , keeping young teachers out of full time positions .

Media driven recession – you’re channeling Bertie there I’m afraid. Do you really believe that a few feel-good stories will fix the fundamental economic factors at the root of this recession?

Daily public sector bashing – not 100% wrong there. However, where there’s smoke there is fire. It’s a disgrace that new teachers are taking such a heavy cut, and particularly when compared to their colleagues with seniority. This is a short sighted and foolish measure. Why is the union not speaking out here?

I do think teachers with “tenure” are in a pretty good position. That said, I’m not in favour of destroying our education system to serve vested interested such as bondholders, unions or even teachers.

Well it didn’t take you long to resort to the insults.

I don’t do it because I prefer my own job, do you get it?

Private sector raped the country as long as they could. When things start going down, they pass the buck and look to scape goat anyone but themselves. U live by the sword you’ll die by the sword.

David you are forgetting/ignoring BENCHMARKING I think

Yes David no doubt some of the Big Private sectors were allowed to rape the country under ”strict” government and civil servant supervision.
However, that still does not justify some of our civil servants and politicians getting paid unsustainable, ridiculous copper fastened pensions and salaries that in some cases are multiples of their western European counterparts.

Eileen you obviously believe we can afford to continue paying salaries in these areas that exceed European norms at a time when we are insolvent as a State. You might also address the issue about these incomes being paid exclusively from the pockets of taxpayers to people in protected or guaranteed employment when nearly fifteen per cent of the workforce is unemployed

Eileen you obviously believe we can afford to continue paying salaries in these areas that exceed European norms at a time when we are insolvent as a State. You might also address the issue about these incomes being paid exclusively from the pockets of taxpayers to people in protected or guaranteed employment when nearly fifteen per cent of the workforce is unemployed

I make the same point and get a lot of red thumbs…

Do people honestly think €27k is not a good enough starting salary for a teacher? Why is salary expectation so high in this country? And I’m not just talking about teachers. Madness.

Marian, you are clearly not a teacher because if you were you would realise that teachers do not have a ‘nice short day’ , as most teachers find it necessary and good practice to spend a considerable amount of time outside if teaching hours doing school work. As for it being less stressful, if you had ever had to teach 30+ children for up to 6 hours a day you might understand just how stressful this can be. Also, the main issue here is that only new teachers are being subjected to this pay cut thus creating huge inequality in the system.

When I was a student I spent the Summers working in England. I met a few teachers who were spending the Summer also working in England to save money for buying a house. While I applaud their enterprise I can’t stand the rhetoric about how teachers have such a hard lot and don’t *really* have a short day or long Summer holidays. I’d say most of the red thumbs here are teachers home from work early. Do ye think we are stupid?

I think you have a very limited view of the teaching profession today. We are not all the same! The profession itself includes Primary/Secondary/Further Education. I work in FE and the majority of staff have a masters, some Ph’ds. If they entered with just a degree/teaching qualification-many have completed a masters in their respective areas.Some enter from industry especially in FE sector. Also, many teachers do other qualifications-educational management etc . Of course, this is the same in all professions.

People chose to be doctors and lawyers because of the promise of a high salary.My GP charges me good money when I visit(50 % more than some EEC countries) and if I was in need of a barrister I could ill afford one.

Good what?

That’s the legacy of FF and FG.

They’re negotiating it’s successor and have been for several months

You can look at it as 9 months pay paid over 12 months.

While more value could be gotten out of the education system, it’s hardly going to happen when you have such disparity in pay.

Daniel, for 9 months of the year I start class at 8am and am there till 6pm. I spend my evenings correcting and preparing classes and am lucky to be finished by midnight. Don’t begrudge us these holidays cause I, for one, do 12 months work in 9!!

Daniel, for 9 months of the year I start class at 8am and am there till 6pm. I spend my evenings correcting and preparing classes and am lucky to be finished by midnight. Don’t begrudge us these holidays cause I, for one, do 12 months work in 9!!

I’m afraid you’re completely off the truth there.

Teachers are not getting jobs. In fact, its almost impossible for teachers to find positions with over 400 people applying for each position advertised. Educate yourself.

David, if its such a easy life on €400 month, why don’t you make this lifestyle change.
Enda Kenny will cut taxes for top 10% and borrow and spend billions on government workers, ( Brian Cowen ).

Loony tunes.