Ironic, seeing as though Fine Gael used to be such big fans of it back in the day.

FFG seem to be getting their wires crossed on a lot of things lately …
Facism vs peaceful democratic protest
committed reduction in bank debt, vs “We may look at it at some point a wayyyyy down the road”

I don’t think you can describe disrupting a meeting of democratically elected representatives as a ‘peaceful democratic protest’. If anything, that’s quite the opposite of being democratic.

The word democracy comes from Greece, and loosely means the will of the people. Is the will of the people being done? No.

The will of some people is being done, a very small proportion. But the will of the majority isn’t being done. So therefore it is necessary for people to impose themselves on the meeting.

So therefore the disruption of the meeting is more democratic than the meeting itself.

Well done to them for taking the boldest of actions, in their own interest and ours.

It was the will of a very small group of people that the meeting of representatives elected democratically by the majority should cease. Just because you don’t like the system and you feel you’re justified, that doesn’t mean you’re automatically on the side of democracy. A real democratic process would be for some of those protestors to stand for election and replace those whose meeting they sought to disrupt.

Kevin, if they broke the law, why did the Gardai not arrest them?
They were excercising their democratic right to peaceful protest. Just because FFg/Labour dont want to hear the voices of those who are suffering, doesn’t mean they dont have to hear them.
FFg/Labour have abused the democratic power handed to them by the electorate at the last election. I predict that this will be the first of many such protests at the abuse of political power.
You should buy yourself a set of eat-plugs if you don’t want to hear anymore.

I don’t think you’re understanding what I’m saying here.

An elector in Cork had a say in deciding that councillors should meet and conduct their business and he or she also has a say in who should be there representing him or her. That’s democracy.

That same elector had no say in deciding if that meeting which he or she had sanctioned through the democratic process should be cancelled by a mob of protestors. That was his or her vote subverted by a minority who didn’t like the direction that the democratic process was taking.

It’s ridiculous to call those protestors Facists, but it’s equally as ridiculous to pretend that they were striking a blow for democracy, especially against a lowly County Council and not Dail Eireann itself.

See once again Kevin we have different conceptions of democracy. What you consider democracy is were there is an election roughly once every 5 years, people get elected form a government and then they can tear up their program in front of you and you can’t do anything about it. The voting once every 5 years amounts to about 15mins of democracy in your entire life.

Now, these people aren’t a minority, they represent themselves, their colleges, those they are taking care of, those who depend on their services up and down the country and who aren’t able to protest and those of us who need a good example to follow i.e. they are leading. Also they are in a sense fighting for democracy because they are fighting for their interests which this so called democracy is opposed to in favor of the interest of bondholders and banks.

In a true democracy these people would govern.

Dave, the problem with your theory is that we have no way of knowing whether the protestors represent the majority of people or not. There hasn’t been a plebiscite. The best that we can say is that 63% of people in Cork are compliant with the property tax (that’s 63% against the protestors), but that in itself suggests nothing without knowing how many have done so under protest.

As seductive as direct democracy sounds, I’d have to question whether it really leads to the best governance of society. In how many referendums did we hear “If you don’t know, vote no”. That’s not an argument for anything, but it risks repetition over and over again in a direct democracy. When we get protests against cuts and against tax raising, what hope of ever getting a balanced budget in a direct democracy.

There’s also a huge confusion over legislative power in a direct democracy and executive power. And what of the courts service, could the general public over-rule any legal decision by majority. When we had the people of Listowel backing a rapist a couple of years ago, that’s a scary thought.

And all that before you find out if the people could actually be bothered exercising their powers.

So, if we’re going to have representative democracy, does it not make sense to be able to hold meetings of the representatives in peace. They certainly have more mandate than the self-appointed who claim the adherence of the masses.

I’ve never been entirely comfortable with the translation of demos as people. The original democracy a rule by demes, regions or areas.

We have rule by the many (pollocracy maybe) or possibly cynically by the media (mediacracy) or becoming more cynical we are edging towards an oligarchy (whereby the pollocracy elects from an self styled elite group who then ignore them for 4 years).

We might argue that, given that most younger people don’t bother voting, we are really a gerontocracy.

Dave those people don’t represent others in any sort of democratic fashion. There was no vote to elect a gate crashing group. There was no referendum on cancelling the meeting. What you’re calling direct democracy, I’d call mob rule. A group of people decided they didn’t like the system and decided to derail it. That’s not democracy.

I agree with you that politicians have ignored the mandate that they were elected on, but I disagree in how a democracy should deal with that. Personally, I will punish the transgressing parties in the next election by voting for their rivals. That’s more democratic than breaking up council meetings because everyone eligible to vote will get a chance to have their say as well and it won’t be left up to me or a small group of like minded individuals.

@Kevin
I’m all for mob rule. Here is James Connolly on the mob:

“It has abolished religious persecution and imposed toleration on bigots of all creeds; it has established the value of human life; softened the horrors of war as a preliminary to abolishing it; compelled trial by jury; abolished the death penalty… and today is fighting to take children from the factory and the mine and put them in school.

In this civilising, humanising work the mob had at all times to meet and master the hatred of kings and nobles.

All hail to the mob, the incarnation of progress!’”

The Nazi party started out as a mob fighting for the people against the political system and look how that turned out: persecution, war, and genocide. James Connolly’s words are romanticised nonsense.

If people have a problem, then they should put their money where their mouths are and run for election or actively support a candidate. It’s easy to be an obstructionist. All you ever have to do is show up, heckle and moan. It’s a lot harder to be constructive and provide an alternative solution. It takes brains, determination and a lot of hard work, because you’re going to have to convince the electorate that you’re the real deal and you can do a better job than the current shower. I understand why people prefer to show up to the odd protest and just let it all out. It’s classic slacktivism. You do relatively little work and you walk away feeling like you’ve done something worthwhile.

“The Nazi party started out as a mob fighting for the people against the political system and look how that turned out: persecution, war, and genocide.”

No the Nazi party started out as a gang of thugs attacking jews, socialists, trade unionists and gay people. They wanted to blame the problems of society on these people, so its no surprise that when they took power, persecution, war and genocide were the result.

Are these protestors attacking minorities, trade unionists or gay people? No. Therefore they are not fascists and are unlikely to turn into fascists.

I don’t know Kevin. The Icelandic people managed to bring down their government without turning into fascists.

Anyway I’m not aware of anyone in the anti house/water charge group who have written a book along the lines of Mein Kampf .

Kevin, you know you have lost the argument when you have to resort to the “Nazi” argument … why not go the whole hog and say the protesters will want to create concentration camps and gas chambers.

There are two different defintions to democracy. One is direct democracy, this seems to be what the Cork protesters were executing. The other is the representative democracy which is what Ireland and most of Europe have chosen for their countries. Switzerland execute a degree of direct democracy through their high level of people`s referendums.

Sorry Carl. I had all my bases covered before I made the Nazi comparison. I have said from my very first comment that anyone accusing these protesters of being Facists has completely misunderstood what the term Facist means. My nazi remarks weren’t comparing the protesters to Nazis, they were made to undermine the James Connolly quote that mobs are nice, friendly things working for the betterment of all mankind.

Thanks for playing though.

Tove, there’s nothing democratic about small, sporadic, and ineffectual protests. Cork County Council has to reschedule their meeting. That’s practically the bailout crisis solved there isn’t it. What would be effective is a big march on the Dail with support from tens to hundreds of thousands of citizens. That would have some democratic legitimacy. All I can see is a small group of protesters who hold absolutely no legitimacy at all.

They have no intention of fixing the issues they are just hoping it all goes away and waiting to pass the buck with the next election.

Yes Barry, let’s all vote for SF or the socialists… they will fix everything!

*Where is a sarcasm font when you need one?*

For me, one of the main contributors to the lack of action and change from this coalition, is that they are a diametrically opposed coalition! Fine Gael for Business (or at least the business’ that contribute to them), and Labour for SIPTU… If we had an overall majority with one common direction, maybe things would actually be tackled and changed… the change might not suit everyone, buy at least it would be change and not this middle of the road pandering…

No lets keep voting for the parties who created all the problems and knock down everyone else who have never been given a chance to fix anything.

Of all the parties elected not one regulated the banks and have all attacked the most vulnerable, not one regulated the housing bubble everyone knew we where building more houses than people living in this country!

Wake up to the problems of the nation!

Yeah, like I said, I’m sure SF and ULA will fix everything. Jobs will flourish, business will prosper… Investment will roll into our little island…

We all know banks should be regulated properly, and now they will, and we should all know that you only need one home (Crazy people building property portfolios… in Balbriggan!)

Maybe we need to wake up, not just to the problems, but to see the sensible solutions too?

“No lets keep voting for the parties who created all the problems and knock down everyone else who have never been given a chance to fix anything.”

Let’s hope that Shane Ross and Stephen Donnelly start a new party and give us a viable alternative.

Well a tax on the rich who go unaffected I think will solve a few issues, so FG / FF / Labour are going to create jobs then are they, is that the reason you support them, or is it because your delusional?

What had paying bond holder got to do with job creation? as we have seen in the past few days FG / Labour lied about having to pay them, worth paying someone else while hospital a&e’s are closed down?

Paying bondholders (while I don’t agree with it), did have one upside. It proved that Ireland doesn’t welch on its markers. If you consider irish secured bonds to be stable, you will invest…
Investment will create jobs and security…
And, again, I really hope I get an answer this time… what is considered rich?
And why should the ‘rich’ have to pay more? Do you think they don’t pay enough? Is half your earnings not enough?

“Well a tax on the rich who go unaffected I think will solve a few issues”

The rich who pay more than 40% of the tax take? Those rich?

Like in France? Like this: http://soc.li/oaniVPE ?

Yeah claiming back taxes / vat must not add up to much and you don’t really think businesses declare all income do you?

Why do you think the rich are big into buying gold certificates? “a good way to hide wealth” the same as the credit unions.

So you do want to repeat M. ‘Ollande’s crazy schemes over here.

George Osborne will be so pleased.

@Barry… we are not talking about business owners here. That is the issue. I ask several times here, but what is rich?
SF would like to rob anyone earning 100k or more. That is not rich, that is just well off. And only a fraction of them… a tiny fraction, are “big evil business owners”… most are engineers, software developers, hard working experts working white collar jobs, the kind of people we need to be successful and want to stay here, and buy things…

The rich own businesses, if they don’t own a business why are you trying to claim they pay 40% income through tax?
It goes from one generation to the next 99.9% of them own some sort of business or have income through investments which they do not declare.

The rich are tax dodgers their motto is not “we should be good citizens”.

They do f*** all in that hall anyway so they didn’t really disrupt anything.

“why are you trying to claim they pay 40% income through tax?”

That wasn’t what was said.

“The rich who pay more than 40% of the tax take”

“the top 5 per cent of earners were set to pay 43 per cent of all income tax collected in 2012, while some 78 per cent of all workers – those earning under €50,000 a year – would contribute only a fifth of the tax take.”

http://www.thejournal.ie/budget-2013-no-income-tax-increase-643713-Oct2012/

Capisce?

The lower paid have a higher tax rate on income, the upper have more tax breaks based on business, their income is based on profits not pay checks.

Capisce?

Any chance of numbers to back up that statement Barry?

And once again…. What is rich?

Yeah, you think Cllr McGonigle would have embrased anarchy by now… it really is the only way forward!

“Dissent is the highest form of patriotism” – Thomas Jefferson.

@Derek:

“Blacks are inferior to the whites in the endowments of both of body and mind.” – Thomas Jefferson

Maybe not the best person to be taking modern inspiration from?

Chris Mansfield Just because 63% have paid the tax, does not mean that 63% are against the protestors. Spme people have paid, as they are afraid of the repercussions if they don’t. It’s about time people started protesting!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzarFU6BjN0

On seeing it now, it doesn’t really have the feel of informed debate/protest… unfortunately, they resorted to just chanting, not unlike football fans, and only managed to cancel the meeting.
It would have been much more impressive if one of the protesters had of been in a position to ask civilized questions of the chair, and make their position/point in a clear and undeniable way. Surely it must be easy to highlight the flaws in the household charge?

@ darren i have attended previous protests at the cork city hall and the our elected representatives have treated protesters with contempt and arrogance ,what is the alternative …sit there quietly and leave by the back door ,this was a noisy but peaceful protest

“It started as rioting. But right from the beginning you knew this was different. Because it was happening in small villages, market towns. And then it wasn’t on the TV any more. It was in the street outside. It was coming in through your windows. It was a virus. An infection. You didn’t need a doctor to tell you that. It was the blood. It was something in the blood. By the time they tried to evacuate the cities it was already too late. Army blockades were overrun. And that’s when the exodus started.” – 28 days later

@Aoife… Awesome!

So hissy fitting like a 2 year old in a room of democratically elected people is now protest. As a means of gaining support, it doesn’t give me much confidence in their ability to achieve anything. There were over a 100000 on the street to march against Iraq war, so why can’t these groups gather numbers? Is it just because they’re not very good at it?

They were al qaeda terrorists!!! Out to incite war!!!

Cork is nicknamed “The Rebel County”, as a result of the support of the townsmen of Cork in 1491 for Perkin Warbeck, a pretender to the throne of England during the Wars of the Roses.
The common misperception of Cork’s nickname of The Rebel County is that it derives from a strong connection with the fight for freedom from British occupation of Ireland. In fact, the origin of the name relates to Cork’s participation in internal British conflict several centuries earlier. The name was used again at the time of the War of the Two Kings. In later years the term did come to refer more to the struggle against the British than to the Warbeck affair from which it had originally derived, as this had been largely forgotten by that time.

Never mention rebel. Just to clarify what I meant. The independence if this state can be linked to Cork. Most of the IRA activities were carried out here & most of the punishments by the british authorities were dished out here. They even burned down our city in retaliation for IRA activities. Even in the civil war there was a lot of anti treaty activities here including a very famous execution.
So we have a long history of revolt.

Cork should be known as the Warbeck county. It always makes me laugh to hear Cork people going on about the rebel county and they don’t even know why its called the rebel county. Relax boi………. We all know the truth.

If you want to discuss this further I’ll meet you in the English market.

Anytime. Do you need directions? Unlike you most Cork people are over our past but are still proud of it & we have moved into the future by simple things like embracing the queens visit to the city that was burned to the ground by her forces. However we are secure enough to know thats in the past & the future is where we are heading without disowning our history.

Mjhint
Well said ! and well done Cork, Peacefull noisey protests, no arrests and well heard .

With 13 of its 19 TDs coming from FG or FF we should rename Cork ‘the conservative county’!

It had to start at some point. Finally the Irish people are standing up for themselves instead of sheepishly doin whatever the greedy government tells them

@Kevin
I’m all for mob rule. Here is James Connolly on the mob:

“It has abolished religious persecution and imposed toleration on bigots of all creeds; it has established the value of human life; softened the horrors of war as a preliminary to abolishing it; compelled trial by jury; abolished the death penalty… and today is fighting to take children from the factory and the mine and put them in school.

In this civilising, humanising work the mob had at all times to meet and master the hatred of kings and nobles.

All hail to the mob, the incarnation of progress!’”

Sorry the above reply is in the wrong place.

This is just fascist thuggery that prevents democratically convened meetings from proceeding legally and lawfully. These unelected pups should be hosed off the streets to allow decent citizens pass without the contamination they spew.

Blueshirt? There I was thinking it was 2012 and not the 1930s…

I’d say Laura is Googling Eoin O’Duffy as we speak.

I am giving away my age there, @Martin :-) Then again, Laura is showing her lack of knowledge of her party history.

She would’nt be the first Fine Gael’er unaware of that dispicable parties history.

I think history has become somewhat skewed here in regards to FG and Fascism. People ought to take a closer look how FF aided and abated nazi war criminals to hide in this country after WW2. Oh ,the irony.

That is tantamount to saying that Fianna Fail have been closest Blue Shirts all along.

@seamus I’d believe Fianna fail are and were capable of just about anything to further themselves and their party, No fan if them crowd either.

Overtime for the chauffeurs and extra laundry allowances for shitting themselves .

Hear hear. Asenine at best.

The building they protested in, is owned by the people… Surely that is the case? and if it is the case, then they should be allowed to use it as a place of protest?

That wasn’t my point Cal. My point was that if you wish to make a protest about a piece of legislation, then by addressing that protest to the body that makes that legislation it might be more effective.

Do you see?

Council election coming before the next GE could be a factor.

Norman, since the Council can’t change the legislation then it’s just a protest vote.

It does seem a bit odd to protest their (genuine) grievances at a city council meeting.
It’s like complaining about Burger King prices at a McDonald’s drive thru!

Not really I’m sure if you looked you would see McDonald’s and Burger King each own shares in each others business, council meetings are tied to the Government same thing, word would spread from one to the other.

@Barry…. *Groan*

Well they live in Cork and the Cork city council sent the letters out, so? Duh!

And the dubs are doin what exactly? Ah ya, pipe bombing a td’s office. Nice. Cork’s mayor is a 3 year rotation, ff/fg/lab. 100k job for the nice fella. What a joke

can I say that to the councillor also?

Grrrrr… Rich People… Grrrr…. Big Business… Grrrrrr…

Darren, what we should do is follow the example of Enda’s new pal M. ‘Ollande. What he’s done is bring in a much higher taxes for anyone in France who still has some money despite there being a recession. Yes that’s right some people still have money despite there being a recession, they must be up to something.

So the poor people will never have to pay taxes again.

Ha, yeah, Mr. ‘Ollande’s begrudge tax. That is what the left here want. To take money from the people that worked hard to get well paying jobs… can;t be having that kind of enterprising behavior…
It is tantamount to theft actually, expecting people to hand over more than half of what they earn to pay for failed government programs and projects, and to facilitate a bloated public sector administration arm… (Increments, seriously??)
I’m surprised SF and the ULA don’t ask for this new tax to be given to them in a brown paper bag, whilst wearing ski-masks (Insert obvious joke here!)

Wow… imagine that… 32%…
Is there some form of quantum entanglement phenomenon on the left, where the basic rules of mathematics no longer hold?

Really 32% Blimey, you need a new accountant.

Belly Up, Are pensioners Gougers?

Like really, FFG/Labour … calling people who disagree with them, names like ‘Facists” “Shinnerbots”, Gougers” etc really does go to show how far out of touch the current and previous Governments are with the average people in Ireland.
This protest will probably be the first of many … and the more you attack their right to peaceful protest, the more fuel you will add to the fire.

The people are hurting … they have been telling you on their own doorsteps, but you refuse to listen… so now people are starting to take their grievances to places where they may actually be heard….

gougers = swindles so I assume your comment is directed at FF, LB and FG.

Gouger is a word we just don’t use enough anymore!

Thank god this tiny minority are nowhere near power – this is the true will of the people. The left are as a plague on the majority, people like Boyd-Barrett with their righteous anger, despite contributing no alternative.

The Left has put foward reams of alternatives as well you know, (wealth tax, job initiatives ..etc) but its not what you far right dudes want to hear, so you close your ears and pretend you heard nothing. Back to your goose stepping now, get them legs up high.

Martin, the propositions put forward by the left are nonsense. We have heard them, and considered them, and come to the conclusion that it is merely populist “Tax the Rich” guff.
What job initiatives have they put forward that would not bloat an already bloated Public sector?
How is taxing the money from the only people in a position to spend going to help either?

But sure isn’t that what the current government is doing already Darren? You know taking as much money off people as possibly, household charge, water charge, car tax and VRT to be increased, changes to the tax allowances for private pensions the list goes on……

Martin, part of the reason the country is skint is because of socialist spending policies, INCLUDING the now communist AIB. If we were a capitalist country Anglo would simply have gone bust. The socialist block in Europe which includes France and Germany forced us to bail out a corrupt private company that went bust.

Exactly William & Kerry. If capitalism was allow to work here, Anglo would have died a quick but messy death, and now we would be rid of it, and only a bit bruised. Corporate socialism as well as garden-variety socialism are our undoing.

I agree … FFG/Labour/FF have been the ruination of this country. Time to give the other parties a chance, lets face it, they couldn’t do worse than FF/FFG/Labour. Ireland, the most indebted country on the planet!

Cal1, they can be gougers indeed. Once a gouger becomes a pensioner they don’t suddenly stop being a gouger. These people are likely to be very poorly educated but think they have big ideas on how things should work…you know, like most of the left.

Darren do you understand what populist refers to,: “playing to the wants and needs of the majority of the population. ” The people want the rich to be taxed its the govenments job to adhere to the will of the people,are all those people wrong or are you and the right wing banking defenders you walk wirh right to be destroying this country with your ridiculous policies. Put the people first our people are going hungry to-day.

@William “AIB is a communist organisation,” dear god what a statement!. The board of AIB are a bunch of right wing bankers many with Fine Gael connections. If they were communist they would be making finance available for the benefit of the state, I take it that you saying AIB is communist was in jest.

Populist means adhering to the knee-jerk, short sighted will of the population, who have no regard for the greater good, only their own. In this case, the Irish penchant for begrudgery, and envy.

Tax the Rich. Does it even matter to you people that the majority of these so called rich people have worked damn hard to be ‘rich’, and that stripping them of their gains just to maintain a failed status quo (welfare, Public sector pay) is actually grossly unfair. And can someone on the left please answer my question. What is Rich?

You live in this false view of the world, where successful people don’t work hard, or earn what they have. Like they are all bond villains. This view is wrong, and populist!

@Darren I was aware that the right even the Irish right favoured autocratic systems of government, and fair play to you for coming right out and being clear that your not a democrat because you know better than all the people. You would be in favour of imposing your redundant policies and will on our people.

A lot of people worked and studied hard for their money but now as there sectors are destroyed they find can’t put food on their table, but people like you would let them starve while putting bankers and bondholders first. This state wasn’t created for people like you it was created to protect the ordinary person from people like you.

Well that’s just crap Martin. Pure crap. The fact is, a wealth tax would not raise as much as a sensible reduction in Public sector spending, or sensible changes to welfare. (Such as vouchers for what families NEED, not cash… as I suggested here before, vouchers redeemable against Irish goods only… there is a sensible stimulus for you!).. but is would remove cash from the economy. Cash in the economy creates customers, customers drive business, business creates jobs… jobs are better for people than handouts!…

And again… what is rich? Give me a number… a red line where begrudgery starts if you will…

Surely this state was created for both of you. It’s about finding balance so that everyone can be accommodated and it’s about compromise and understanding.

I’m guessing. Well, hoping.

@Darren , you must be a Fine Gael fan as you completely ignored my suggestion that your view on how Ireland should be run is autocratic. The will of the majority of the people doesnt matter to you because they are wrong in your opinion. And just to be clear I’m an employer in software development and am not starving but think that people that can afford to pay more to save our fellow citizens from dropping down in tne streets from hunger should pay more, anyone with a annual disposeable income of more than 40 grand could afford to pay another 12.5% on it.

12.5%???! Seriously?

The will of the people is to drag the top down?

Would that 12.5% not be of more use in the market? Do we not already know that the gov have no idea hiw to spend it? And I am not a FG fan.

40k is rich?? Batsh?t crazy….
You never mentioned my voucher idea? Too rational?

@Darren I find it hard to believe a right winger is suggesting the Irish equal of the US food stamps. Dont think you could get a more lefty proposal, But I think its not a bad idea, anything that helps the hard pressed should be tried. But dif you say where the funding for that comes from.

@Darren I notice you didn’t read my comment correctly I wrote 12.5% on those who have 40grand of Disposable income per annum. Not an income of 40grand.

Ah. That makes more sense. 40k disposable income is dtill pretty wooly though. Is that after mortgages, bills, car loans, food etc.

And I would be surprised if the voucher system cost more than our current cash handouts. It would make more jobs and surely it would guarantee families get what they need.

I am not right wing. I’m only fiscally responsible, and I admire and respect success.

Sean people are getting angry. Most have no recollection of either FG or Lab saying in their pre election manifestos that they planned to bring in house charges, water charges etc., there was definitely no mention by Kenny that his plan was to pay all the bank debt back either. It’s a pity as this government had the chance to bring the people with them and they have squandered it. I’m not surprised that people are starting to protest and I expect we will see a lot more protests.

If they where doing their job there would be no need, Democracy = Will of the people, Democracy is also known as mob rule where the majority have the say.

Fine Gael manifesto Feb 2011 p.60 specifically says they will not be bringing in an annual recurring charge on the family home as it would be unfair. A party gets elected on the basis of it’s manifesto and so has not got a mandate to do then take opposing measures.

It is very annoying Anne. But if FG had a solo majority, perhaps they could have torn up Croke Park, made sensible savings in spending on welfare, and not have to impose (an unfair) household charge..

FG had other options besides going into power with Lab.
They could have gone in as a minority government.
They could have looked for support from some of the independents.
They could have stuck to their manifesto and honored their pre election claims and let some other parties form a government.

Just like the constant claims in the Dail saying to FF but it’s your fault (that’s true but FG/Lab have been in power for 18 months now) blaming others is getting to be a habit.

You are dead right Kerry. Blaming others is not an excuse any more. Personally, I am glad they didn’t give the balance of power to the wacky independents… more Healy Ray? No thanks.
It is from during the election, I actually heard people say they voted for Labour, just so FG wouldn’t have a majority, but now they expect the government to make changes. How can they, when the two parties can’t agree on the colour of sh!te??

SeanNorris
Yes .This what we are reduced to and FG have it in their power to stop it too.
They are wrong to push people so far . These are ordinary people who are upset and are hurting .
There is nothing left to give !

The current protests against the councils are a reaction against the letters recieved by the citizens from the councils threatening to persecute and procecute them if they don’t pay the household charge; thus they are protesting at the right venue.

plus 1 Anne. The councils have actively got involved in this by these letters & threats about student grants. Now they’re in it let them fight the fight. As long as there is no violence this is true democracy.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/fascism

Laura, did the population have a vote to put you in the Office of Mayor of Cork? If not, you are not in a position to take the high ground on democracy here. Taking 100,000 per year for a job that was given to you by the vote of a few is not democracy.
Unless of course you give up the wages, and therefore speak as a regular citizen, in which case you are doing exactly the same thing as your ‘facist’ protesters did last night.

This is turning into the Laura McGonigle poltical education forum

But a word of advice to Laura: before you teach somebody something, make sure that you understand it yourself

and before you do that, make sure that you actually have something worthwhile to say

Since you have looked up the word ”
facism” laura why not look up the meaning of “unsecured” or “unguaranteed”

Ha… good one Anthony…not sure Laura has much say in the bond payment circles though… do you?

@Anthony McDonnell. Super retort more of the same please.

And you are trying to stop the protesters from speaking. Therefor you are subverting democracy, yes?

werejammin, I’m not a short snappy dictionary definition of fascism will go into fascist tactics, but direct action including disrupting political meetings is one of their tactics. It’s also the tactic of a number of other totalitarian groups ranging from Communists to religious fundamentalists, so fascism is probably not the right allegation. What those groups do have in common though is the belief that their ideology is more important than democracy and that’s definitely something that is hidden in a number of groups in this country – notably Eirigi and the Socialist Workers Party (or whatever friendly banner they are using now).

Wouldn’t call it fascism might call it a start of a revolt. Start listening to the people cause history is littered with examples of what happens when the elite push the common man to far !
And it’s not pretty.

There is nothing elite about our current government.

Laura FFS. While I agree that this may have been promoted by members of the left I think these people carried out a peaceful protest that made the headlines. Dont be too keen to call these fascists because a government that lies to its electorate or its people & in turn makes decisions that brings untold hardship can be also categorised as facist. To me that arguement is futile & has an element of Godwins law. I dont agree with the lefts political agenda but I agree with their right to protest or disagree peacefully because its democracy. Your version of it is skewed.

Laura Mc Gonigle .
You and your party are daily practising FACISM.
You have taken authority over what is broadcast on the National News , You are insulting us by your arrogance .
Your party were voted in on the five point plan , they knew what they were required to do and they threw it all back in our faces. They have closed down A+E’ around the country, They have reduced innocent people to desperate people pleading with you all to be heard . SHAME SHAME SHAME. People are desperate ,Hear them !

Chris, Communism isn’t fascism. In fact, communism and fascism are mutually exclusive of each other.

Hey Laura ….
Fascism. ( sometimes initial capital letter ) a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism.
2.
( sometimes initial capital letter ) the philosophy, principles, or methods of fascism.
3.
( initial capital letter ) a fascist movement, especially the one established by Mussolini in Italy 1922–43.

I didn’t say communism was fascism. I said that they had in common that they believed that the introduction of government based on their ideology was more important than democracy. That’s one of the key differences between communism and democratic socialism.

Ah, I misread. Apologies!

Laura I think in the interest of democracy a reponse from you to the some of the rebuttals you have received on this thread from your local electorate. Maybe you could engage directly with us & give your rebuttal or is this just a propaganda statement to justify your position in the city council. I await your reponse as do a few more I suspect. Please show us, like these protesters that you are a true democrate or dont use this media outlet for towing the party line. Engage us.

You should check up on the history of your party. Why do you get €100000 a year? Are you worth it? Another parasite.

Laura,
Your party got its mandate from the people of this country because of the promises and commitments it made. Your party has broken it promises and is unable to honor the commitments that it ha made, therefore we can conclude that the mandate that you claim to have, was earned dishonestly and anyone can question it.
The people who entered city hall yesterday more than likely have more support that you or your party enjoy presently.
Finally the people demand that you and the rest of the politicians listen. I refuse to call you a public representative because you do not represent the people who put you in your position. How dare you call these people Fascists.

Laura
Remember this …..http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LTCT7QIeP8.

Lies , lies all lies !

Shame on you for a statement of that nature…. Disgrace. If politicians engaged more with the people who elected them we would not have these scenes. I hope that the protests continue to be peaceful and our elected members engage professionally with the citizens

29% of a high salary is significantly more than 16.5% of a low salary. Especially since those mean evil successful people rarely use these services their taxes pay for… Once again, maths is lost on the begrudgers… and common sense.