so you call people who knowingly break the laws of the land “decent” , undocumented = illegal regardless of whether they are irish or whatever nationality , they should all be imprisoned and deported .

Non European majority ? Sounding a bit WASPy there for a man with 3 fadas in your name. Would you make an exception for Irish illegals?

I think in the eyes of the Christian far-right, no matter what Obama does he’s damned either way. I would also point out that when you say ‘This is the next stage in transforming the US into a fully non european (sic) majority country…’, I’m not sure if you are for or against this, on the one hand your profile picture of a burning EU flag would suggest you think it’s a good thing, but the tone suggests otherwise. I suppose the USA, for those who can cast our minds back a few hundred years, was non-European before, white people protesting immigration in the USA is one of the grand hypocrisies of our times, summed up eloquently by this Native American Indian at a recent immigration protest; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVuluSPsbgE

Ah, that old chestnut.

Most Americans are not immigrants. Probably not a single American alive was in any way responsible for the terrible treatment of the Native Americans. You’re entitled to think they’re wrong about immigration, but it’s absurd to accuse them of hypocrisy.

John, Irish Illegals are lets face it -criminal overstayers who should be fined and deported. You either believe in laws or you dont. These guys dont and should be treated like any other people who break the law.

Gaius Gracchus, Europeans were living in north america thousands of years ago before they were genocided out of existence by siberian immigrants who arrived later.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/new-evidence-suggests-stone-age-hunters-from-europe-discovered-america-7447152.html

Even if American Indians were there first, as debunked by the above evidence The “my lost land” argument is not really useful I think and just supports the victim-oppressor aggrieved victim narrative that keeps people in a slavish resentful mentality.

The other false argument is to say because thousands of years ago one of my relatives was an immigrant, I cant today oppose continued immigration and I am a hypocrit. I wont even go into that in more detail, I assume you can see whats wrong with that logic – its one of the memes you see often tho in arguments about immigration.

I would counter-argue Emily, that most Mexicans, for example, are not illegal immigrants either, as many parts of the southern states, such as New Mexico and Texas were annexed by the Americans. I never said most Americans are immigrants, and even if it was a few hundred years ago, it doesn’t make the protest any less hypocritical, it’s a denial of your own past (i.e. your ancestors) which is very dangerous.

And Micheal, one article from a newspaper can hardly be termed ‘evidence’ (note the article says, it ‘suggests’). I don’t think it would be watertight in a court of law, ‘Your honour, I have here The Independent from February 2012’ (jury gasps). A few European lads getting lost a few thousand years ago is hardly the equivalent of settling and making a continent home. It’s not about immigration with some people though, it’s about getting rid of people who are different.

Your squirming here shows you have your mind made up already. Your reduction of european paleolithic involvement on the American continent to a ‘few lads getting lost’ and your dismissive appeal to authority tell me all i need to know.
I supplied a newspaper link from a left leaning newspaper as its more easily digestible then primary sources. The professors cited in the article are hardly spoofers if you look at their accreditation.

Even if the first people who arrived on the American continent from what we now call Europe, it does not mean that Americans of European descent have a more just claim to the land than those of the Apache, the Lakota or the Mexicans. Furthermore, white Americans have zero cultural or even ethnic ties with those possible arrivals from Europe.

There is also absolutely no evidence that these people were subjected to genocide by later arrivals. Extermination rarely happens in history and for the most part it is the product of modern and early modern societies. Far more often, newer societies have assimilated older ones or have been assimilated by them. When the English, French and Spanish started to arrive on the North American continent, the people they encountered were neither “Europeans” nor the decedents of a people who destroyed a “European” society.

Gaius, didn’t the Mexicans not take the land from their native people? You mention Texas and new Mexico as being annexed by the US but that land was never Mexican in the first place. The land mass that now consists of north, central and south America was inhabited by various tribes of people. You seem to forget that Mexico came about because of the spanish.

No, no Declan, I’m pointing out that the white European descendant (today) whose ancestors took land from Native American Indians, are calling mostly Mexicans, illegal immigrants, yes, Mexicans (the vast majority of whom identify themselves as a mix of white and indigenous) also took land from the Native American Indians, so, they both did the same thing. I’m highlighting, in addition to the taking of New Mexico along with parts of Texas, California and Arizona, how the Americans today are comfortable calling Mexicans the immigrants, without any sense of self-awareness.

Damned horses are everywhere!