Hear hear

The first two are prices set by the market, not by the government.

And are you actually suggesting that we hire more public servants when we’ve no money left?

David
The recruitment ban is not working, particularly with nurses.
Agency costs mean it wouldve been cheaper to recruit nurses.
Front line cuts are hurting us all, and we will pay for that far more in the future if it doesnt stop

David with respect fuel prices are affected by duties and please don’t try to tell me that the leaders of this country, our government, can not affect any market price, I’ve heard all these excuses before and was led to believe that this government would be different!! And yes I am suggesting we recruit, on a smaller basis for now but do recruit, our frontline emergency services are part of our entitlement as a people and must be protected, and yes I am a frontline servant and experience it every day and I know the difficulties that arise daily it has changed and changed for the worse. Perhaps address the other issues I raised also, I’m not on for having a go but I am sick of waiting for this great change of how things would be done and am pretty tired of being lectured by persons who still earn an outrageous wage for the times we are in

Sara! If you took up a nursing job in the private sector, you’d have to work much harder, you’d have no defined benefit pension and most of all, you’d have much less job security!!!

What a ridiculous, ignorant comment. I work in one of the busiest A&Es in the country. You have no idea what my job is like and you’re just demonstrating your own arrogance and stupidity by suggesting that you do. I look after people who have been stabbed, shot, burnt, people who have tried to commit suicide and, in many cases, are already dead. You are an imbecile, Neil, and I only wish that you and those like you who think you know it all would spend a day doing my job. A day, no, you wouldn’t last 5 minutes. And yet you reckon you are the expert on what I do. You need to take your head out of your arse.

You have no idea how hard I work, Neil. How arrogant and ignorant to presume that you do. I work in one of the busiest A&Es in the country. I look after people who have been stabbed, shot, burnt, critically injured in RTAs. People who have tried, and often succeeded, to kill themselves. You wouldn’t last 5 minutes in my job.

Actually the motion was proposed months ago by a a good few YFG branches

These motions were proposed a number of weeks before the conference. There not proposed on the day or the week before. Branches had to submit their proposals sometime ago, which a steering committee decided which was going for debate and which were not to make the cut (seeing as a large number of various propositions go in, you cant discuss them all)

Thanks, Shane. I appreciate that. It is cowardly and it’s not just on the journal unfortunately! We get it at work too. I recently had a man tell me I had a cheek spending his tax money (my wages) on new shoes. Work shoes!

And people think public servants pay no tax either!! Bitter bitter man. Head up Sara.

I know! Cheers, Shane. Nice to know that not everybody is out for our blood!

Hear hear!

You might forgive me for not crying in my porridge because public sector workers have to contribute a small sum to their defined benefit pensions while private sector defined contribution pensions are plundered for €470 million per annum to subsidise the state.
http://ftmdaily.com/sovereign-debt/shock-irish-government-raids-private-pensions-to-pay-for-spending/

There was a caveat in the deal that should economic circumstances change for the worse the deal can be renegotiated or made void. Things don’t get much worse when the IMF have to come to your rescue.

That’s not the president of YFG, Eric Keane…..that’s yer man McCaul who sang for Ireland in the Eurovision with his sister.
I’ll tell you one thing…the wrong young people are obviously emigrating and leaving people like Keane behind.

Times have changed Vincent . Nothing is forever in this world.

Well said Karl!. The public sector workers appear to have forgotten that there would be no public sector without the remuneration from the private sector.

Isn’t it inspiring to realize that the young people have the guts to say what the older folk ignore. Finally, in the boom, the senior grades had to be catered for first. Now its time that they took the hit first.. Come on big boys and girls! Do what you know is required of you and dont be so greedy.

One third of the spending on PS pay, SW and capital spending is being paid for out of yet more borrowing from the troika.

PS pay is only being propped up by the whim of the troika, and a point is coming soon where they´ll say they won´t fund it anymore.

Wow, the same old crap debates rage on: Public V Private, Public Sector bashing, we didn’t cause the problem, Private sector gained all the benefits during the boom years. It’s all nonsense anti-intellectual & illogical. The debate never centres on what is the right thing to do NOW for the greater good. The fact is, that righteousness is not the preserve of those on the left or right of the political spectrum even though both continue to promulgate the theory that it does .In Reality, its really simple, this country is broke (lets even leave the bank stuff out of it). This country spends €18,000,000,000 PA more than it takes in via total tax revenues. (After 4 years of austerity). The other fact is despite this our public sector is still among the highest paid in the world, our social welfare system (in terms of cash payments is amongst the most generous in Europe). Well maybe it just me and few other “disgruntled, jealous, public sector hating private sector workers ” thinks that this is unsustainable in the long run or maybe just maybe I don’t hate anybody but am concerned that my children’s future prospects are being threatened by a failure of this generation to deal with this countries massive economic issues . Now let me be very clear, I would take no satisfaction in anybody taking pay cuts, who is anyone to know an individual’s expenses based on what they earn now. Personally, I would do everything I could to protect the wages of Nurse and Gardai because the nature of their work. Of course ALL work is valuable but tough choices have to be made, they would be mine. The croke park rubbish is a brilliant ruse by the unions, it bound all the public sector together in defence of a single position and it is logical that any rational person will fight to hold on to what they have, but here’s the rub , it is a cynical and disgusting agreement agreed between government and unions to protect the highest paid in the public sector with the support of their lower paid colleagues. It should be torn and an new let’s say have “Semple stadium” ;-) agreement that would protect all public sector workers under a certain wage or grade wages for the length of the agreement, then let’s cut into the fat cats , and bring them into line with their Euro colleagues . Why hasn’t the government not done this well because their pay is linked to the public sector fat cats.

Please re-read the article where it says “The low paid should be protected”.

YFG has members up to the age of 30 and we have many public servants too. I work part time and many others do likewise.

Your argument is essentially ageist in that young people haven’t enough experience therefore we shouldn’t listen to them. Shame.

No it’s not David it’s an opinion. Get over yourself and that attitude of what young fine Gael think is all that matters. The people of Ireland don’t and won’t fight against each other in a public vs private debate despite what young fine Gael thinks. Stop trying to instigate a class warfare. And stick to issues for youth such as suicide, emigration and unemployment which are the real issues that should be addressed.

Don’t give me that clichéd Republican soundbyte that cutting the highest paid PS workers is “class warfare”. It’s fairness.

My god , blame has nothing to do with this debate , let’s totally remove blame because every clown knows , reckless lending by banks went unchecked by government who subsequently blew all the tax revenues from same on public pay and social welfare . All the gov revenue went to ensure they would stay in government in perpetuity which has led us to a situation where we can no longer afford our public sector wage bill , simple no more to be said we can’t afford , we have to borrow lots of money from other to pay wages , unsustainable . Discuss ?

@Tensing

Very few people in Ireland seem to realise that government taxes can´t even cover PS pay and SW, never mind pay bank debt.

One third of the spending on PS pay, SW and capital spending is being paid for out of yet more borrowing from the troika.

That is a patently incorrect statement and no amount of red thumbs will change the facts

http://www.ronanlyons.com/2009/02/04/public-sector-pay-in-ireland-the-e50000-question-its-not-that-difficult/

http://www.ecb.int/pub/pdf/scpwps/ecbwp1406.pdf

Between 1998 and 2008 Public sector wages were on average 30% higher than wages of their private sector counterparts. In 8 of the 10 years the gap widened. Even allowing for reductions in wages in the few years since due to the pension levy, wages are still well above those in the private sector and compared to european public sector rates.

Even without the banking collapse Ireland inc still had a €19bn hole in it’s finance caused by excessive pay to public servants and high social welfare rates. That would still have needed to be overcome through wage cuts, pension levies and job cuts.

This argument is moronic in the extreme ,to paraphrase “Private sector had their chance to join the public gravy train and didn’t take it and now they hate us” This impish logic is belies a worrying attitude , I hope you can see that now ! The only issue at play is affordability , nothing else matters ,further denial of this immutable truth will see our medium term demise ! 4 years of austerity and we still borrow 18 billion a year , solutions on a post card , oh yes sorry ,let’s send a tax bill to bono and Denis o brien on their fuc€ing tax haven islands, let’s get real people

Stephanie….you had your chance to join the private sector….and you got Croke Park. Sauce for the goose, sauce for the gander.

Divide and conquer is what they want to do

modest? you’re joking right?

Most private sector workers never get the benefits you outline. It’s only a few at the top and you’re right, they shouldn’t get them. Likewise the public sector shouldn’t earn excessive sums either. Two wrongs don’t make a right. And more importantly it’s OUR money!!!

Excellent point, Silent P. yes, David, modest. How much, for example, do you think a public sector nurse earns? Modest is actually a very generous term for my salary.

Totally wrong! It was Bertie Ahern that bankrupted the country, when he gave in to Nurses, Teachers and their like, by bringing in benchmarking! More pay for less work! Where else could it happen??

Oh god, Neil, are you still here? Do you really think that’s why the country is bankrupt?!

So David,
A member of Young Fine Gael then?
You Tory Thatcher wannabe

I accept that nurses salaries and others at that level are modest NOW, but at the height of the boom they weren’t and recent cuts brought them down to modest and they should go no further.

The problem with the CPA is that it protects the highest PS earners at the expense of frontline services and that must be stopped!

David
That is just plain wrong. Nurses (and all the other front line staff) never made a lot of money – and dont expect to either. The private sector made a lot of money in boom times and now its all boo hooo hooo now things are tough.
What we do want is security and a good working environment. All you FG’ers want to do is cut cut cut.
Dont forget, you WILL need nurses garda, ambulance, fire fighters one day and dont go complaining if they cant help you because you and your FG cronies cut the hell out of these services.

Nurses’ salaries have always been modest, David. What are you basing your opinions on? Do you have any idea what we actually earn or are you just part of the anti-public sector posse?

Private sector bankrupt the nation; I think not.
- “‘Undercapitalized banks’ is code for banks that lent too much. How can banks have lent too much, and obviously have done so for years, decades even, and have done so the world over in the most enduring and persistent credit binge in history, when they are all under the control of the state central bank, which in a paper money system has the monopoly of printing unlimited bank reserves and administratively setting short-term interest rates, and thus controlling lending conditions? Is this not properly called state failure, rather than market failure?”
Detlev Schlichter
-
Best of luck with the revisionism.

David are you working now? If not then you can’t say ‘our money’ as u haven’t paid a ‘red cent’ in taxes….

Yes Shane. I work part time and pay all the related taxes.

Although I might be paying no taxes now that the USC was cut for the lowest paid workers.

Those evil Fine Gaelers in government right ;)

@ David Higgins
“The problem with the CPA is that it protects the highest PS earners at the expense of frontline services and that must be stopped!”

well said; it’s the first comment that mentioned this – i don’t think the public in general are aware that the Croke Park Agreement was voted for by the Unions who protect the managerial & all the way to TD PS positions. The CPSU who are the union for the lowest grade staff didn’t sign up.

I blame the parents.

Sara
Fair play, I know how hard you work- I’m a nurse too, not a&e but I have been there.
I want to add the personal risk you are taking working in a&e, it is very dangerous sometimes and there are few nurses who haven’t been assaulted at some point.
A&e nurses are simply not rewarded enough. I can’t believe you got red thumbs. You who did that – you will have to rely on one of these nurses one day – think of that when you really need help.

Thank you, Dave. I have been assaulted on more than one occasion. Once when I was pregnant. I don’t know of many A&E nurses who haven’t, to be honest. Isn’t it sad that I’m so used to this that I didn’t even think to mention it when I was describing my job?

Well done, Sarah. It’s a pity that many more in this country didn’t share the compassion and work ethic of nurses working in the bedlam that is the Irish health system.

by passing a motion allowing gay couples to adopt?

Do I really need to provide you with examples of how social darwinism sits happilly alongside social liberalism within the “small state, big market” wing of conservatism?

You could, but the British Conservatives wouldn’t be an example.

The conservatives are Eurosceptics and social conservatives while FG is pro-Europe and socially liberal.

What, 500 young people engaged in politics and wanting find solutions to the problems of their generation?

I don’t care what party people join but I welcome any young person who gets up from their keyboard and tries to make a difference in their country!

David I was once like you but tbh politics in this country is like banging your head against a brick wall and where has Billy Timmons gone ?

What needs to be done exactly?

Tear up the CPA. It was a Faustian pact to buy stability with the evil empire (The bearded ones).

Paul, we almost agree. Tear it up? Yes.

A Faustian Pact? Much worse I am afraid to say. It was a Bertie Ahern pact with our trade unions to make sure they didn’t have any interest in doing the right thing in exchange for votes.

People can take out a pension irrespective of whether they are in the private or public sector. The pensions of a lot of public servants are actually quite small and they don’t have huge salaries unless they are near the top which takes years and everyone doesn’t automatically get to the top. It appears to me that anyone who is working in the public service and getting any kind of reasonable wages is being treated as though they have done something wrong when all they are doing is a weeks work for a mediocre salary when all the deductions are taken into account. On the other hand the private sector is responsible for the state the country is in as said already- the banks, builders, etc.

Permanent employment and a guaranteed pension. Point to a private company offering similar gold plated contracts.

What a lot of private sector workers forget is when they are sitting down with a glass if wine with their Christmas dinner or opening a bottle of wine on New Years’ eve there are Gardai patrolling the streets and nurses tending the sick in our hospitals
In fact 365 days a year 24 hours a day if you ring 999 you will get a Garda an EMT or a fire fighter or a Rescue Helicopter (whichever you require) to your house or your car or even half way up a mountain
Though the response times are going to be slashed come March 1st our front line emergency services employees aim to provide the best service under the worst conditions that no private sector worker would put up with
How many private sector employees would go to work in a building infested with mice? Gardai in some parts if the country do so every day
How many private sector workers (with the exception of pub door staff) would willingly go to work knowing that they will get dog’s abuse from drunks and/or junkies or even get assaulted at work like Sara the A&E nurse above who faces that every Fri/Sat/Sun when she is on nights
Would you run in to a burning building to save someone’s life? Probably not but that’s what our fire fighters do every time t they are called to a house fire

The private sector need to realise that direct comparisons of wages& conditions between public & private sector workers are completely unfair

For the record I am not now nor have I ever been a public sector employee

Angela,
Get over yourself. I have worked in the private sector all my life. I have worked on Christmas day and new year’s eve. I have worked 80 hour weeks and have done so within the budget which my employers could afford to pay me. We all work hard.

Get your facts right. It wasn’t YFG that wanted to give her honorary membership. It was UCC YFG that proposed that motion at their branch meeting and the motion was DEFEATED!

Yes Sean, I should have said proposed a motion. Still no need to get quite so aggressive! It must be a sore point amongst some of the junior Tories.

I hope your alright Conor after getting slapped by Sean’s handbag….Apparently, YFG members have replicas of Maggies handbag to hit ill folk like you and I!!

Nothing wrong with a controversial motion to get people thinking. Motion was defeated in any case!

Freedom of expression and all that. Good PR for the branch, got the name out there and showed they can debate pretty much anything. Having the motion defeated though shows it wasn’t something the whole of UCC YFG agreed with.

Branding the whole of YFG though, when the executive didn’t bring such a motion forward or make any such statements, is a bit silly but I suppose its needed for effect?

We have one of the most progressive income tax regimes in the world which statistically favours the lowest paid.

The reality is that it was FG who raised the minimum wage and cut the USC for the lowest paid earners in the last budget.

That’s a great profile pic David, too many cans of bavaria have clouded your judgement. U want to be like Inda and get great bonuses in the dail.

After a long day of posting and debating here, I need a drink! :D

If the public sector is so horrible, why aren’t there people leaving it?

@Tom

Because a job is a job. Contrary to what the right wing media would have you believe, people in the public sector have the same mortgages and bills to pay as everyone else. Would you ask the same question of someone on the minimum wage in the private sector?

Mark,
Exactly. A job is a job. Of the 430,000 unemployed, how many were permanent public sector?

I don’t know is the honest answer. I can give you some figures for teaching where there have been 3,000 job losses since 2009. To put the proviso of these people being permanent would be somewhat disingenious as it takes an average of 7 years to become permanent in secondary teaching. Therefore these teachers didn’t get any redundancy package despite some of them having given anything up to 5 years service in the one school.

When someone resorts to Nazi comparison in an internet debate….google it.

I have no affiliation to FG and quite frankly i disapprove of some of their pandering to sectoral interests, but to compare them to The Hitler youth is disingenuous and insulting. Are all public servants lazy communists? Of course not . So keep your childish, ignorant comparisons to yourself.

I must agree with Tensing here (and I can confirm he has no affilitaion to FG).

It’s called Godwin’s law, the concept that when someone resorts to a childish Hitler or Nazi comparison, it means that they have nothing of value to add to a debate, and is seen as the end of the debate in favur of the person who did not resort to such silliness.

This makes absolutely no sense whatsoever

Hitler Youth? Shameful description of a democratic youth organisation.

John A Costello in a speech to the Dail

‘The Blackshirts have been victorious in Italy & Hitlers Brownshirts have been victorious in Germany , as assuredly the Blueshirts will be victorious in Ireland…..!

Young Fine Gael the baby face of FASCISM

I would rather blueshirts that the boys in the camouflage shirts waiting to pounce, the boys who complain about every cut this government is making yet they introduce the harshest budget ever in the north!

Jambbie, people in the public pay for their pensions and because they pay up to 500 euro per month or more sometimes is not because they have a huge salary but because they are trying to provide for themselves in their retirement years and make sacrifices to do that. I agree with Sara, I worked in a hospital and unless you have done that you will never know the work that nurses and other staff do and in my opinion, no money would pay them to do what they are doing. The public didn’t reap the rewards of the Celtic tiger but the private sector did in the building trade, estate agents, shop owners, cafes and the hospitality trade, in fact everyone BUT the public sector so lay off the Croke Park agreement because with all of the public sector workers leaving and the extra workload on those left you might see the stupidity of all of this before long when there won’t be any public sector worth talking about.

The budget for the North is allocated in Westminster, not in Stormont. You really don’t have a clue, do you Karl?

Well said, Sheelagh! Thank you!

The budget on the north must be passed by the parties in stormont.

@ Sean.. here is a link for you on the facts about the last Stormont budget, http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-12692637

I don’t think opposing the Croke Park deal really sits well with FG’s fascist heritage.

“All within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state.”

Benito Mussolini

I don’t think opposing the Croke Park deal really sits well with FG’s fascist heritage.

“All within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state.”
Benito Mussolini.

Benito Mussolini

Smiling to myself at the keyboard warriors ignorant of Godwin’s law.

:)

They’ll do anything to avoid debate.

Tom, I understood that Godwin’s Law refers specifically to National Socialism and Adolf Hitler rather than facism or Blueshirts.
Godwin’s law is often cited in online discussions as a deterrent against the use of arguments in the widespread Reductio ad Hitlerum form.[4] The rule does not make any statement about whether any particular reference or comparison to Adolf Hitler or the Nazis might be appropriate, but only asserts that the likelihood of such a reference or comparison arising increases as the discussion progresses. Precisely because such a comparison or reference may sometimes be appropriate, Godwin has argued that overuse of Nazi and Hitler comparisons should be avoided, because it robs the valid comparisons of their impact.”
Wikipedia

Sean,

Not sure how alert you are today….but the opening post to which everyone is replying says “Hitler Youth.”

:)

(But given your posts here, I’m not overly surprised that you don’t follow things particularly well.)

Did I hit a nerve Tom?
I’ll make every endeavour in future not to discuss FG’s fascist heritage for fear of upsetting yourself or Mr Godwin.
Freedom of speech is overrated anyway!

Yes Sean, with your Hitler analagies and freedom of speech persecution complex, you really dazzled me.

Maybe you should try it and see how you like it.

YFG has many more members than the other youth wings and isn’t either extremely against its own party (Labour Youth) or slavishly behind everything it’s senior party does (ograFF).

YFG tends to have the most influence on its senior party vs the other parties which is why this would get more attention. It’s more probable to become party policy. More attention too because the party is in government!

Silly comment about Labour Youth who play a very important and positive role in the Labour Party. Some youth sections do the thinking and the analysing necessary to be heard within the wider party. YFG seems to think that trying to warm-up the leftovers of their Tory brethren in the UK makes them somehow “relevant”.

FYG is getting more attention now because of the stupid things it is saying more than anything else. Fine Gael doesnt even honour its own promises – do you think it listens to a shower of young gobshites like yourselves?

What do you mean, the going rate? I’m a nurse and would earn significantly more than I currently earn if I worked in the private sector! If that’s what you mean by the going rate, bring it on!

Sara, of course you might earn more in the private sector but you get less holidays and at retirement you only get state pension unless you have also managed to fund a private pension and as for tax free lump sums on retirement……

No, Sean. Some private hospitals pay an extra percentage of the wage to be invested in a pension or used however the employee wishes. My pension would actually cost me less than it does at the moment. €500 per month comes out of my salary for my pension. They’re not free, as people seem to think.

And the tax free lump sum is gone after February. You should check your facts before you comment…

Sara fair play people seem to think public sector workers get free pensions!

I know, Shane! That’s what the Indo want them to think!

Sarah, don’t take this the wrong way but if the private sector option is paying more (and your pension would be costing you less than it is now) then why stay working where you are in the public secto?. Sorry if that sounds overly simplistic.

No, John, I see where you’re coming from. I specialised in A&E nursing a long time ago and I absolutely love it. I have thought about working in the private sector , and I may have to consider it for financial reasons, but I really don’t want to leave.

shane, the public sector does not get free pensions. anyone who thinks that is a fool. however depending when you joined your pension is subsidised to some degree when compared to the norms for a private sector defined benefit pension which is the nearest comparator.

Sara. by working in the public sector you are getting a defined benefit pension a now almost unheard of thing in the private sector. of course if you include the pension levy you are paying more of a pension contribution but I think you and I know that the pension levy is only a crude mechanism to get benchmarking back from public servants. I suspect that your private hospital pension would be defined contribution in otherwords you hope that the investment managers manage to at least maintain what you put in and acheive growth of your fund (by no means guaranteed). February is n’t finished yet btw and I certainly would not rely on anything in the indo in forming my opinions

Thanks Sara. It’s nice to know that not everybody has a price on their backs. I hope you are rewarded with a good pension when you retire.

I know all that, Sean. And I’m well aware that February isn’t over yet. I won’t be retiring for 30 years, however, so I think it’s safe to say that I will miss out on the tax free lump sum!

Thanks, Reada! And, Sean, the pension levy is not a contribution towards our own pensions. We will never see that money (approx €300 per month). I can’t believe people don’t know this stuff…

Adoption queue long enough as it is

Are you a working man David I think that was the last question asked ?

Yes I am working.

What’s your suggestion?

Public sector workers should benchmarked where possible to the private sector and more importantly their European counterparts.

Excellent suggestion, Karl. Benchmarking to the private sector would mean a payrise for me! Does ANYONE know that public sector pay was cut in Jan 2010?!

A rise on the way for you Sara!

That clown Doran has a lot to answer for!

I wish, Karl!

@sara
Must be still on good readies if ya can fork out €500 a month for a pension.

Btw, I think it’s the people who don’t actually do the work, in all areas of the public sector, but can hide behind agreements that get people’s backs up.

Jambbie, we have no choice as to how much we pay into our pensions so whether I can afford it or not is not the issue. But if you’re suggesting that I’m on big money I most certainly am not.

@sara & sheelagh

Don’t understand why a person wouldn’t have a choice if €500 was being stopped on them every month, especially as its value is probably decreasing. Perhaps you can explain. I earn the average industrial wage, I can’t afford a pension at all, was paying €40 a week but stopped.

@sheelagh
Lay off the croke park agreement. ??
Never said boo about it.
I just pointed out that there are plenty of workers who are protected by croke park who don’t merit that protection. Lazy people, who get everything that a hard working person gets, and doesn’t deserve to. That’s all.
Jus so you know I’ve been let go twice in the past few years and now travel a 90km round trip to work nights & weekends in a dingy smelly factory, and while I have the utmost respect for nurses, It’s unfair of you to narrow the private sector into a small group, cos its not.

Jambbie. I don’t know what you want me to explain. We are not given a choice as to how much our pension contributions are, they are calculated for us. I don’t know how I can be any clearer. Also, I haven’t said a word about the private sector.

Sara,
A quick aside but as a nurse you do have a choice as to how much goes into your pension via AVCs.

Sorry but I have to ask what clown gave a thumbs down for a piece of factual information about public sector pensions?

AVCs are an optional extra. I’m not paying AVCs. I have no say in my pension contributions.

Yes, optional. So you do have a choice.

Sarah is correct. You can’t choose not to pay pension or its levy. And you don’t get to decide what kind of pension you pay either – You have to pay for dependent Spouse & children contritions too, even if you don’t have any. And to the person who said that Sarah was on big money to pay €500 towards the pension – it’s doesn’t matter how much you earn – it’s just deducted at source and you cannot stop it, regardless of how much net income you (don’t) have at the end of the week (if you’re a CO ); fortnight & monthly ( if you’re a HEO & up)

And don’t forget that if you’re a clerical officer in the civil service, the pay isn’t huge either!! starts at just over 23K…….

You still have the option of contributing AVCs. So saying that you have no choice is wrong. What you really meant to say is that you have “limited” choice.

Some PAYE workers get their pensions paid directly by work. Are you saying that you would prefer not to get a pension on top of your salary?

Tom I can hardly afford to live on my net income, never mind take AVCs…………..

I;m sorry ; I don’t understand what you mean by “Are you saying that you would prefer not to get a pension on top of your salary?”

I’ll get one (while I;m working) and the other (when I retire); not both at the same time ;-) I expect that by the time I retire my pension will be worthless anyway.

No, Tom. Our pensions contributions are fixed. If we want to “buy back years” for when we were on mat leave or working part time we can buy AVCs. I don’t know anyone who can afford to do this anymore. You’re completely ignoring my point-I can’t DECREASE my pension contributions from €500 a month even though it’s a huge chunk of my wages. I don’t have AVCs, I’ve never had AVCs. Therefore my contributions are NOT optional.

Sara, you said that you have no choice wrt your pension contributions. Obviously you do.

Yeap A J Chopra gave the O K just after lunch yesterday

No it doesn’t YFG is independent of the senior party

The 15% cut already happened for Public Sector workers Sean

Govt entered into an agreement, if workers are laid off they get the agreed redundancy, they are called contracts.