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Comment #4970748 by Louis Jacob

Louis Jacob Apr 12th 2016, 3:33 PM #

Luas should start training up new drivers instantly. And let these clowns strike on.

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Read the article where this comment appeared:

Update: All Luas staff placed on protective notice with immediate effect

Update: All Luas staff placed on protective notice with immediate effect

Siptu has said the letter has the potential to “create conditions for a shutdown” of the Luas service.

REPLIES

    Favourite Marc Power
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    Apr 12th 2016, 2:31 PM

    The luas workers should have a strike against SIPTU as that bunch of idiots in the union could potentially cost people their jobs

    1399
    Favourite Irish Spider-Man
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    Apr 12th 2016, 2:36 PM

    Well said

    6
    Favourite Wally Mooney
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    Apr 12th 2016, 2:59 PM

    Why Eamonn? The strike on Easter Sunday was actually a fitting tribute to the great socialist James Connolly on the centenary of his execution at the hands of our previous capitalist ruling class. Connolly understood that the cause of the working class is only ever advanced significantly and sustainably through collective action, solidarity and struggle against the capitalist system. The lives of the majority are only bearable because of the many battles fought and won by the earlier unions. Minimum wage, 40 hour working week, workplace health and safety, universal health care and education, state pension etc etc etc. None of these concessions to the working class were willingly gifted by capital but we’re fought and won over centuries of socialist struggle.

    Solidarity with the Tesco and Cadbury workers, the 999 operators, the Luas drivers, the nurses, the teachers and all workers struggling to obtain a greater share of the wealth which we create. As the data clearly shows, the trend over the past few decades has been overwhelmingly in the opposite direction with greater and greater wealth accumulating to capital owners and less and less to the workers. This has disastrous consequences for society and it’s long past time we reversed the rotten system which sees 62 individuals now holding the same wealth as the poorest half of the globes population, 3500 million people.

    144
    Favourite Louis Jacob
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    Apr 12th 2016, 3:33 PM

    Luas should start training up new drivers instantly. And let these clowns strike on.

    1540
    Favourite tommy macdonagh
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    Apr 12th 2016, 3:54 PM

    im delighted they are going to be put on protective notice, absolutely delighted for them :)

    1262
    Favourite Permo Dermo
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    Apr 12th 2016, 3:57 PM

    Wally- if the Luas workers and others you mention are highly skilled and deserving of highet pay then they’ll have no problem getting the big pay with another company. Failing that they could set up their own business, of course they’d be hated by the likes of your you for doing so as being a capitalist

    850
    Favourite bings
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    Apr 12th 2016, 4:43 PM

    My son could do with a new job as the one he has pays mim wage, even after a college degree. He could get double his wages by just doing 7 weeks training. When are they interviews???? Should be loads of jobs going in a few days

    1069
    Favourite Wally Mooney
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    Apr 12th 2016, 4:56 PM

    Tommy You understand of course that the Luas infrastructure won’t evaporate if Transdev lose the operating contract? Therefore drivers will be required by whoever runs our state owned light rail network and that those jobs will be unionised as it’s in Siptu and the other transport union’s interests to ensure that is the case.

    41
    Favourite Wally Mooney
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    Apr 12th 2016, 5:36 PM

    The concern around here for Transdev’s profits is entirely misplaced unless of course you’re a shareholder. Around half of any money that the Luas drivers get in a pay rise will end up increasing the government’s tax take which can be used to fund social services like health and education which benefit us all.
    The remainder of the pay increase will be spent in the local economy supporting other jobs and families. One person’s spending is another person’s income and job as the macro economy is circular.
    More money in the hands of the working class in beneficial for society generally. More money in the hands of the minority capitalist elite is bad news as they already have an obscene share of the world’s wealth and continue to hoard ever more.
    It’s interesting to hear the majority here arguing against their own interests and for more money to accrue to those who already have too much.
    Now I wonder who might benefit from keeping us in blind ignorance on the nature of the class divide and how the macro economy actually works?
    Possibly the kind of people who have accounts with Mossack Fonseca in Panama maybe?

    74
    Favourite Patlyndo
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    Apr 12th 2016, 5:57 PM

    Ah, they;’re doing it for us, oh that’s different so………… Why didn’t you just say.

    511
    Favourite Len Brennan
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    Apr 12th 2016, 6:04 PM

    They are looking for 60 grand a year Comrade Wally. Working class, really? They also want a month off every year, paid. And double time instead of time and a half for overtime. Greed, greed and more greed. I couldn’t care less if all those lever pushers were out on their ears in the morning. They are taking the pi**.

    1022
    Favourite Patlyndo
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    Apr 12th 2016, 6:09 PM

    Not looking as good as the AAA TD’s on 90k plus expenses – still a way to go. TD’s aren’t working class though – I’m confused.

    433
    Favourite Len Brennan
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    Apr 12th 2016, 6:15 PM

    I don’t see the likes of Comrade Wally getting half as excited about workers on zero hour contracts.. You know, genuine cases that need to be highlighted. Jizzing in their pants every time they talk about luas drivers, as if they are hard done by. Money follows money as the old saying goes.

    449
    Favourite Patlyndo
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    Apr 12th 2016, 6:19 PM

    The AAA are very selective, they represents bank workers but not Gardai – who knew eh?

    313
    Favourite Patlyndo
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    Apr 12th 2016, 6:28 PM

    http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/transdev-offers-lower-pay-deal-than-one-already-refused-by-striking-luas-workers-in-protective-notice-729352.html

    Game on.

    “The firm which operates Dublin’s Luas has put its staff on protective notice with immediate effect.
    An all-out strike now appears to be on the cards after Transdev and Siptu failed to break the deadlock at last-ditch talks yesterday.
    In a letter to employees, Transdev warns staff will be employed on a day-to-day basis and that an “appropriate financial deduction” will be imposed for “unacceptable part-performance of duties”.

    232
    Favourite John Mullan
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    Apr 12th 2016, 6:42 PM

    We are the clowns if we don’t see the bigger picture going on here, the systematic destruction of workers rights, the race to the bottom, the return of slavery, all just around the corner now

    60
    Favourite Anthony P
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    Apr 12th 2016, 6:42 PM

    @Wally what the Luas drivers are looking for is far beyond the working class wage and conditions.

    404
    Favourite Chris Murphy
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    Apr 12th 2016, 6:43 PM

    Bring in the Army to drive the trams if required.

    346
    Favourite Assel Dannourah
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    Apr 12th 2016, 6:46 PM

    Bashar O’Connor

    38
    Favourite Wally Mooney
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    Apr 12th 2016, 6:50 PM

    Nonsense Len. The AAA supports all workers struggling against the infinite greed of the capitalist system. Check out today’s Journal article on the Tesco workers as an example like a good lad.

    23
    Favourite Neil
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    Apr 12th 2016, 6:55 PM

    A defining quality of the elite capitalist skum that you continually harp on Wally about is greed. What the luas workers and siptu are guilty of is the exact same greed that you claim to abhor.

    Unreasonable, unworkable and soon unemployable.

    314
    Favourite brian boru
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    Apr 12th 2016, 6:55 PM

    We need to put transdev on protective notice, take the lucrative luas management contract into the cie group

    23
    Favourite Anthony P
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    Apr 12th 2016, 6:56 PM

    @Wally ‘like a good lad’? And patronising to boot.

    190
    Favourite jane
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    Apr 12th 2016, 6:56 PM

    Ah Wally will ya go off with yourself, trying to compare Tesco staff to the greedy Luas drivers.

    261
    Favourite Wally Mooney
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    Apr 12th 2016, 6:57 PM

    Mind you Len. Patsy sounds like she’s positively “jizzing in her pants’ at the latest escalation in the dispute.

    12
    Favourite Joe Harbison
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    Apr 12th 2016, 7:01 PM

    CIE group. Why so it can copy it’s good value, punctuality and excellent customer service. Don’t make me laugh. It’s easier to believe that SIPTU precipitated the strike to engineer same.

    169
    Favourite Patlyndo
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    Apr 12th 2016, 7:03 PM

    No, I leave the “jizzing” to you, I have said that I sincerely hoped the workers would see sense and not risk their jobs, unlike the AAA, I don’t want to see them used as a pawn in the game that the AAA and SIPTU want to play.

    I am all for the protection of workers rights and I am all for seeing that workers are employed on decent pay and good terms and conditions,

    Not once have you ever said what was wrong with their pay – not once have you said what your issue was with them working a 35 hour week and being paid a decent salary for this while having very generous terms and conditions.

    Your concept of simply increasing wages – just because is just nuts, if these workers are not satisfied with their 42k plus 6% after 9 years, then they can take the experience they have, courtesy of the private firm that paid for their training and see what they can get elsewhere.

    185
    Favourite Dave Doyle
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    Apr 12th 2016, 7:09 PM

    John, how can you expect the sheep, who have become blinkered sheep, to understand exactly what’s going on here.
    It’s how dare an ordinary tram driver look for better wages, and how dare they inconvenience the traveling public.
    They never stop to think that if the Luas workers get beaten down or sacked, the same is on the cards for them. Support them and everyone has a yardstick to work off.
    It seems everyone is happy to take crumbs, and dont have the courage, or moral fiber to dare ask for more.
    Its depressing.

    25
    Favourite John Considine
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    Apr 12th 2016, 7:11 PM

    Let’s be clear here Wally, I don’t care if Transdev ever make a profit. I’m quite sure they are as terrible as the next corporation. Neither do I care much about the wages of Luas employees, that’s between them and their paymasters.

    But I do care about the standards of people. How they act and behave towards their fellow citizens. The Luas employees collectively acted like spoiled children on Easter Sunday. They asked Transdev to cancel their planned “scab service” and negotiate in good faith only to turn around and break that faith themselves at a days notice. Presumably the motivation was to hurt Transdev but they knew there would be significant collateral damage amongst the public and they did it anyway.

    Labour, both as a collective movement and socio-economic force, can only protect it’s interests if it maintains the upper hand morally. These people let themselves down with how they behaved; the schism they are now trapped in is of their own making. And if AAA wanted to have any semblance of moral authority on this issue going forward they should have called the childish nonsense around Easter Sunday out for what it is.

    In short, these people aren’t right just because they’re “one of us” and if you want to practice blind faith in something then perhaps you could join a religion? Because it’s a horrendous trait in politics.

    234
    Favourite Patlyndo
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    Apr 12th 2016, 7:14 PM

    They asked for more Dave and they were offered more.

    They were offered 18% over 3 years, 6% a year.

    What was wrong with that?

    187
    Favourite Gordon Hughes
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    Apr 12th 2016, 7:15 PM

    Keep commenting wally and re-affirm to the journals readers why 96% of the popultlation didn’t vote for the AAA … your more of a help to FF FG LAB and SF then you are to the AAA

    194
    Favourite Ted Logan
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    Apr 12th 2016, 7:16 PM

    Wally, the Infinite as you describe it was allows for the Drivers to be already on very good pay and conditions. The better the company does generally the better its employees do.
    I know plenty of people over the past 20/30 years that made a lot of money on share options in various multinational companies.
    Maybe the Luas drivers should use their annual 6% bonus (money for nothing) to buy Transdev shares.

    92
    Favourite Paul Lanigan
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    Apr 12th 2016, 7:25 PM

    Don’t you have a job to go to Wally? Oh that’s right…..We’re paying your mortgage…

    141
    Favourite eamon mcloughlin
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    Apr 12th 2016, 7:27 PM

    Your name is very apt

    65
    Favourite Paul Lanigan
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    Apr 12th 2016, 7:29 PM

    Jasus John Mullen, you’re worse than Wally. Get a grip man

    62
    Favourite Paul Lanigan
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    Apr 12th 2016, 7:30 PM

    What you’re advocating is fraud Dave Doyle

    39
    Favourite Richard Cynical
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    Apr 12th 2016, 7:33 PM

    I think this might actually get the luas drivers to stop taking advice from siptu

    81
    Favourite Patlyndo
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    Apr 12th 2016, 7:40 PM

    So tell us what is wrong with their pay and conditions?

    LUAS Driver:
    As Per scales eg’s
    Year 2 €36,978
    Year 5 €38,666
    Year 9 €42,247

    Plus 6.5% bonus.

    Contracted for 39 hours
    Work average 35.45 hours

    Paid full sick leave for 7 weeks.

    Half pay for a further 26 weeks.

    Pension scheme 5% from employee
    matched with 5% from
    employer after 1 year of
    service

    1/3 gross annual basic
    salary paid to spouse up to
    her/her death
    Paid for by Company in full
    via an insurance scheme

    Death in service

    3 times lump sum payment
    of basic salary on death
    Paid for by Company in full
    via an insurance scheme

    Income
    protection
    Payable after 26 weeks up
    to age 65. Benefit is half
    pay less social welfare.
    Paid for by Company in full
    via an insurance scheme

    (An income protection scheme fully paid for by the big bad employer)

    Annual
    leave
    including
    any service
    days
    20 days on commencement
    21 days after 3 years’
    service
    22 days after 5 years’
    service
    24 days after 10 years’
    service

    Compassionate leave, maternity leave/

    Other
    benefits
    Nurses on site annually for
    blood pressure, cholesterol,
    pulse checks and health
    advice paid for by Company
    Employee Assistance
    Programme provided
    Free Parking
    Free Luas Travel

    Now, would you kindly tell us Wally – what is wrong with this salary and this very, very generous package?

    303
    Favourite Dave Doyle
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    Apr 12th 2016, 7:42 PM

    Panty, nothing on the surface of what you say. But the terms and conditions that came with the offer were a bit to much.
    Personally, i’ve no time for SIPTU. And i am wary of how they went about organising the negotiations. SIPTU have supported the government on many issues that that defy their status as a trade union. The Luas workers themselves have every right to look for better money. The basis of their claim is looking for parity with other rail workers. That is debatable. Having said that, i support their right to strike for better money. The real truth is not what is carried by mainstream media. It makes the workers look like greedy ****s. The fact that the traveling public are inconvenienced doesn’t help their case. But i wish people would see beyond the headlines.

    14
    Favourite Dave Doyle
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    Apr 12th 2016, 7:44 PM

    Paul Lanigan …. is that me you’re directing that comment at? Fraud????

    4
    Favourite Martin Crowe
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    Apr 12th 2016, 7:46 PM

    A great explanation of some facts Patlyndo.

    79
    Favourite Patlyndo
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    Apr 12th 2016, 7:49 PM

    Dave, I have posted the t&c’s that exist now. None of these have been eroded, the new entrants already start on lower pay, this was negotiated back in 2010, the LUAS drivers want newer staff to be paid the same – but they want them to work all the unsocial hours – how is that fair?

    They were offered 6% a year, they were actually asked to do the hours that they have always been contracted to do – but never did, meaning that they were paid for hours they never worked – there has to be compromise and part was that they do the actual hours they have been paid for.

    103
    Favourite brian boru
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    Apr 12th 2016, 7:50 PM

    I have always found that within the constraints placed upon them by the resources available to them CIE group provide an excellent service.

    I can not say the same about the Luas and the fact that they are making massive profits and refuse to share those with their employees speaks volumes about the kind of company they are.
    Get rid of transdev

    11
    Favourite Patlyndo
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    Apr 12th 2016, 7:54 PM

    CIE worker alert.

    82
    Favourite ruth mc cann
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    Apr 12th 2016, 7:56 PM

    If you think that earning 32k a year is minimum wage you must be joking! The nurses, doctors, even the Garda earn less than these wan*ers who are looking for a ridiculous amount of money for pushing a button

    130
    Favourite Gerry O'reilly
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    Apr 12th 2016, 7:57 PM

    But the people in the government can get 95 k a year plus bonus and no one says stop not sure 60 k is right but we need a fairer society for all

    15
    Favourite iohanx
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    Apr 12th 2016, 8:01 PM

    @Wally … nobody is stopping the workers (or anyone for that matter) from investing in the company via the stockmarket and making profits that way

    65
    Favourite Patlyndo
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    Apr 12th 2016, 8:06 PM

    Yes they can Gerry – politics is open for everyone, put yourself up for the next election.

    56
    Favourite Patlyndo
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    Apr 12th 2016, 8:09 PM

    And silence from his great Walliness – Wally continually compares this to the lockout – oh how James Connolly would be proud – let me tell you if James Connolly was offered those hours, that salary, the t&c’s and the very generous package – he would have snapped the hand off any company.

    I can see him giving a big face palm now – how bloody stupid can you be to think for a moment that these tram workers and this strike was anything like the lockout.

    80
    Favourite Dave Doyle
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    Apr 12th 2016, 8:10 PM

    Panty, i’ll beg leave to check what you state out, before i comment. A lot of the t&cs are statuary in any normal employment contract. The salary scales differ of course. The Luas workers want parity with other rail workers. I’ve yet to check what train drivers get.
    While supporting the Luas workers, i still do not trust SIPTU.

    3
    Favourite Patlyndo
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    Apr 12th 2016, 8:25 PM

    “A lot of the t&cs are statuary in any normal employment contract.”

    Sorry, but that is nonsense, paid sick leave, 5 weeks holidays, income protection plan, pension etc… These are not statutory.

    “The salary scales differ of course”

    They do, they are much higher than many jobs in the private sector.

    ” The Luas workers want parity with other rail workers”

    Who cares, they work for a private firm, do we pay bouncers and security men/women the same as prison officers and Garda (not 23k but when they are on their full scales.).

    Do we pay creche workers the same as teachers?

    LUAS drivers pay is compared to other light rail drivers who work for the same company in other countries and they get far more.

    80
    Favourite Patlyndo
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    Apr 12th 2016, 8:29 PM
    35
    Favourite Mill Miller
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    Apr 12th 2016, 9:33 PM

    Your son is stupid .. He takes after you .. People have rights

    1
    Favourite Tom Fennelly
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    Apr 12th 2016, 9:35 PM

    Wally. Connolly was wounded in the GPO. Had he not been he too would have been shouting out the window at the looters on the far side of the street to stop robbing what other workers and decent people could not afford.

    31
    Favourite Sean Finlay
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    Apr 12th 2016, 9:35 PM

    I’m not sure the luas driver’s conditions warrant this type of rant. Certainly we all have the right to a fair wage for our labours, it seems on the face of it that the luas drivers were not being treated unfairly and indeed were offered a rise well ahead of inflation for years into the future. Their union is misguided. Connolly wouldn’t be happy about that.

    38
    Favourite ironballs mcginty
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    Apr 12th 2016, 9:38 PM

    Patlyndo Please cut and paste these details every time the Luas dispute is mentioned in social media. People need to see the facts as the media outlets dont seem to publish details. Well done to you.

    37
    Favourite James B
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    Apr 12th 2016, 10:20 PM

    Look, I actually agree with most of what you’ve said, but I think in this case you’re not quite on the ball. This is a private company that actually pays its employees quite well, but which is also running at a loss. I do think that nurses and Gardai should be paid more but luas workers are already quite well paid. They’re not working for some Ebenezer Scrooge who is taking home billions while they’re paid peanuts, and to be honest, that is something many others workers are dealing with!!

    38
    Favourite Mad Hatter
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    Apr 12th 2016, 10:44 PM

    They turned down an 18% pay rise. Looks like they gambled and lost.

    48
    Favourite A Guy
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    Apr 12th 2016, 11:00 PM

    If 2104 to 66 is indicative of the support the drivers have I think SIPTU have backed the wrong horse!

    22
    Favourite Buster VL
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    Apr 12th 2016, 11:21 PM

    Wally,
    Without investment by the “capitalist ruling class” you would not have a tram to drive.

    21
    Favourite Buster VL
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    Apr 12th 2016, 11:26 PM

    Wally,
    Where do you think your pension will come from?

    17
    Favourite Buster VL
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    Apr 12th 2016, 11:30 PM
    3
    Favourite Tom Collins
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    Apr 12th 2016, 11:54 PM

    Like it or hate it they are playing hard ball. Results will follow. Fortune will always favour the brave

    1
    Favourite Patlyndo
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    Apr 12th 2016, 11:56 PM

    The magic money tree.

    12
    Favourite John Mullan
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    Apr 12th 2016, 11:59 PM

    A lot of red noses in this tent. Enjoy working in the circus lads

    5
    Favourite Eddie Erskine
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    Apr 13th 2016, 12:38 AM

    Lets pay them a million each then, after that we should pay teachers half a million (as they only work half the hours) The Guards and the nurses should get 3/4 of a mill – just to maintain pay parity etc. sure the economy will be booming in no time with the extra millions/billions collected in tax.

    20
    Favourite Ollie Phelan
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    Apr 13th 2016, 12:59 AM

    “A DAY TO DAY BASIS” ?

    What the hell ,? The basic requirement is 2 weeks notice . Thats a right .(a HUMAN RIGHT in Europe)
    They should ALLLLLLlllll stop their trams at an appointed time wherever they are and go home .

    And show the Company what “DAY TO DAY” means in reality .
    See if the managers can jump into taxis real quick and figure out how to move the damn things .
    Bring Dublin City to a standstill .

    What the company is saying in straighforward language is ” Your dispenceable ” ,your barely worth paying”

    They should abandon their trams at a specific time , apologise to comuters , lock their cabin and go home , so that the Company KNOWS what “day to day basis” means

    3
    Favourite Ollie Phelan
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    Apr 13th 2016, 1:04 AM

    Train drivers are quite well paid .
    But it takes (i think ) 6 years experience before being put on the Mail-line .

    2 years shunting .
    2 years more advanced shunting .
    Then 2 years as co-driver ……..before theyre able to drive .

    What their company did and said is disgraceful , but they cant be on parity with rail drivers .
    The Railway is far more complex and you have to learn every light /signal / incline and turn between here and Cork

    They cant put them on parity with train drivers

    8
    Favourite Dave Meagher
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    Apr 13th 2016, 5:44 AM

    I was getting involved with aaa , was very supportive of their ideals . But after all this I hope Paul Murphy gets jailed and the luas drivers all get p45s. Hopefully this is the death nail in spitu’s coffin , nothing but a corrupt political entity ,rotten to the core.

    16
    Favourite John Mulligan
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    Apr 13th 2016, 12:33 PM

    That’ll be up to the new company that takes over when Transdev walks.

    1
    Favourite Johnny A
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    Apr 13th 2016, 1:13 PM

    Wally, AAA would pay Luas drivers 250k a year – then tax them at 95%. Do AAA know you’re on here every day making a mockery of their causes?

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    Favourite Dave O'Shea
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    Apr 13th 2016, 4:57 PM

    The biggest red thumb count in history…and counting

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