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Comment #2239293 by Michelle Meehan

Michelle Meehan Mar 18th 2014, 7:55 AM #

On the 4th of feb 2013 my partner and I was sadly in the same situation. Our baby had a condition called anencephaly where the top of the head hasn’t formed properly. Our little boy was born 31st July 2014 at 42 weeks and lived for 9.5 hours. Even though we choose to carry I still think that we should have had the option for having a termination in our own country. It is hard thing to handle at any age we where 28 both when we found out. My best wishes to the young couple in this situation I truly do understand what ur going through X

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Irish laws ‘forcing us to go to Manchester for a termination this weekend’

Irish laws ‘forcing us to go to Manchester for a termination this weekend’

Niamh, a young woman of 23, was told at the 11-week mark of her pregnancy that her baby would not survive past birth. She will travel for a termination this weekend.

REPLIES

    Favourite Nicole McCormack
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    Mar 18th 2014, 8:07 AM

    Very brave Michelle.

    368
    Favourite Declan Byrne
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    Mar 18th 2014, 8:27 AM

    You should have had a choice Michelle we are still backwards as they come. I am very sorry about your baby and I am sure very tough on you and your partner.

    414
    Favourite Sinead O'Carroll
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    Mar 18th 2014, 9:14 AM

    Hi Michelle,

    I’m so sorry to hear of your loss. Thanks for sharing your story with us. This debate, unfortunately, often lacks the compassion, respect and understanding you have shown here.

    All the best,
    Sinéad

    547
    Favourite Twiterus
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    Mar 18th 2014, 10:04 AM

    “This debate, unfortunately, often lacks the compassion, respect”
    You say this whilst trying to remove yourself as a protagonist?
    Let’s look at your sensationalist (not to mention biased) headline “Irish laws ‘forcing us to go to Manchester for a termination this weekend’ ”
    The Law is no more forcing this person to travel to England for an abortion than it is forcing organised criminals to travel to Eastern Europe for firearms training or forcing pedophiles to travel to Thailand to sexually abuse children.
    It is a very sad case – and shame on you and other groupthinkers to use such a sorrowful situation to promote your abortion agenda.

    76
    Favourite John Everyman
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    Mar 18th 2014, 10:34 AM

    Comparing a woman carrying a nonviable pregnancy to criminals and paedophiles, lovely.

    And some people still say there are two rational sides in this debate….

    600
    Favourite Sinead Murphy
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    Mar 18th 2014, 10:34 AM

    Wow that’s the mediator !
    No chance of fair debate

    27
    Favourite Philip Kehoe
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    Mar 18th 2014, 10:40 AM

    Shame on you for using such tragic circumstances to attack people who adopt a pro-choice position.

    The Fact is, this couple was forced to make a choice between either continuing a pregnancy knowing their child would die, or travel abroad.

    The choice to terminate a pregnancy in this case should have been open to them here.

    350
    Favourite Sinead Murphy
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    Mar 18th 2014, 10:47 AM

    Hi Sinead just because somebody disagrees with abortion as a moral issue this does not mean we lack compassion.
    This is a tragic story and my hearts breaks for all involved including the child.
    I just don’t think abortion is ever the answer.

    61
    Favourite John Everyman
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    Mar 18th 2014, 10:50 AM

    What you think hardly matters when it comes to this woman’s choice.

    437
    Favourite Philip Kehoe
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    Mar 18th 2014, 10:51 AM

    Not even when it spares mother and baby pain and suffering?

    Odd definition of “compassion” but okay.

    312
    Favourite Aimee O'Sullivan
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    Mar 18th 2014, 11:43 AM

    Sinead o’Carroll, pro-life stance means you lack compassion, respect and understanding?

    Riddle me this, is it respectful or compassionate to abort this child? One of my has the same disability and she leads a full life, is 27, married and has a 5 month old baby boy.

    It’s bad enough The Journal consistently shoves their left wing, pro abortion agenda down our throats every week, but to blatantly insult people with opposing views, via a so-called ‘journalists’ own comment is farcical.

    I’m sorry this child is under the threat of abortion, but I’m more sorry about the fact that your false propaganda will be interpreted but other psychologically vulnerable early 20 somethings.

    To the young kildare couple, who’s to say they’re even real? But if they are, I implore you to reconsider. The psychological damage you’ll inflict on yourself will have long lasting effects. Consider adoption as an alternative or embrace your child yourselves and love it even more.

    50
    Favourite Jane Travers
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    Mar 18th 2014, 11:54 AM

    Aimee, there are varying degrees of Spina Bifida as I’m sure you know. I’m delighted that your daughter survived to adulthood with a milder form of it, but this child is not going to survive under any circumstances, as the brain is not even enclosed. How dare you compound this young couple’s suffering by suggesting that they consider adoption as an alternative? The child is not going to survive to be adopted. Your heartlessness sickens me.

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    Favourite Sinead O'Carroll
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    Mar 18th 2014, 12:00 PM

    Hi Aimee,

    I didn’t say a pro-life stance lacks compassion, respect and understanding. I said this debate is often acted out in a way (from people on both ‘sides’ – for want of a better word). Michelle showed how she chose one course of action but understands how another couple might choose a different route.

    Earlier on in this thread, somebody had used the word murderers to describe the couple. That and Michelle’s comment were reminders that we need to be cognisant of language here.

    And I would ask you to read the article again. The couple (who, of course are real) were not told their child would be disabled as you suggest. They have been told it will not survive one hour past labour as it’s skull will not form over it’s brain.

    Adoption, obviously, will not be an option.

    Thanks
    Sinéad

    416
    Favourite CAK
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    Mar 18th 2014, 12:02 PM

    Aimee – the child is going to die. It is not going to be around to even leave the hospital so how on earth do you suggest that they put the child up for adoption or embrace it themselves? Are you completely insane? Your attitude is disgusting. Clearly given that your child is 27 and married she does not have this disability that causes the baby to die. You are obviously referring to a less severe type and your ignorance is astounding.

    373
    Favourite Twiterus
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    Mar 18th 2014, 12:09 PM

    Your comparison my friend – not mine.

    BTW: ‘carrying a nonviable pregnancy’ – your desperation to deflect from the fact that this is a baby we’re talking about – causes you lose all meaning in what you’re trying to say.

    As far as debate; The people of Ireland have been denied a debate on the issue – hence the 50,000+ people on the Streets in last January, the 80,000+ people last June.

    You’re the one seeking a law that allows us to abort our unborn children – yet you suggest that you are the rational party?

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    Favourite Emilio
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    Mar 18th 2014, 12:20 PM

    Twiterus, the thousands of women that year after year go to the UK to obtain what they are unfairly denied here in Ireland speak louder than any of your USD funded protests.

    The people of Ireland have not been denied a debate, only the people who want to give women the freedom of choice have been denied a debate. We, the ever growing majority, have been denied this debate, as the politicians cowardly go with whatever the catholic church might have to say about this and many other issues.

    The time has come to shed our past and say hello to the future. Ireland will be a place for women to safely and legally have pregnancy terminations one day, and hopefully this will happen sooner rather than later.

    Meanwhile, women will be forced to travel to the UK, the ones that can afford it, that is. As usual, the law affects the wealthy differently.

    186
    Favourite Brian O'Sullivan
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    Mar 18th 2014, 12:26 PM

    Aimee, this isn’t a case of someone being born with a disability, such as the friend/relative you refer to. This would be a baby born with part of their skull exposed to the open, a fatal condition that the doctors in the article say would result in the baby dying within an hour of birth.

    Asking the couple to consider adoption is pointless because the baby most likely won’t survive that long. You also ask the couple to consider the long term psychological damage of having an abortion. But what of the long term damage of going through with a pregnancy where the couple knows the child has little if any change of survival after being born?

    199
    Favourite Sam Aritan
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    Mar 18th 2014, 12:34 PM

    On this particular issue of FFA, public support stands at in or around 80% according to an Irish Times MRBI poll. That’s a lot more then 50 or 80,000.

    127
    Favourite Jane Travers
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    Mar 18th 2014, 12:42 PM

    Those are very heartening stats Sam, especially after reading some of the ranting lunacy on here. Good to know they’re firmly in the minority.

    157
    Favourite Sam Aritan
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    Mar 18th 2014, 12:46 PM

    They are Jane. It must be particularly galling for many of them to know that the people standing beside them at mass will likely be voting in favour too. After all, that 80% in favour will be primarily made up of Catholics.

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    Favourite Matt Bowyer
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    Mar 18th 2014, 12:47 PM

    Don’t get one then.

    But this woman does think it’s the answer, and she needs one.

    82
    Favourite Michelle Meehan
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    Mar 18th 2014, 12:49 PM

    Hi Aimee I would just like to explain to everyone what anencephaly is. It’s the most sever form of spina bifida. This is where the top of the skull doesn’t close fully and normally happened 28 days after conception before most women even realise they r pregnant. During time the baby is in the womb the waters that protect the baby actually destroys the babies brain cells leaving the child classed as brain dead. There is nothing that can b done believe me I’ve tried. We got a second option about our child but the outcome is still the same. I don’t blame u for ur reaction I just don’t think people understand how terrible this is. If u or anyone else has any questions just ask X

    289
    Favourite EireBlueshirt
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    Mar 18th 2014, 12:51 PM

    No s**t Sherlock.

    5
    Favourite Jane Travers
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    Mar 18th 2014, 12:53 PM

    Well said, Michelle. You’re being both brave and gracious in this debate, and I salute you.

    199
    Favourite Emilio
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    Mar 18th 2014, 12:57 PM

    Yeah, well said Michelle. You say “if anyone else has any questions” and “just ask”… But you see, that’s the fundamental problem. Anti-choicers NEVER have questions, they always have all the answers already, so they never ‘just ask’, they just blurt their nonsensical horsecrap, label everybody else as ‘murderers’, ‘liberals’ (somehow related concepts) and ‘nazis’ (again, shocking)…

    177
    Favourite Mark Collins
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    Mar 18th 2014, 1:20 PM

    Let he who is without sin cast the first stone .

    75
    Favourite Nicole McCormack
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    Mar 18th 2014, 1:29 PM

    Pedophiles don’t have to travel to Thailand, all they need do is don the collar and black suit and the Catholic Church in Ireland will give you access. The law does not allow for a termination in these circumstances and that is the issue. Typical religious driven drivel. Shame on you

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    Favourite Paul FitzGerald
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    Mar 18th 2014, 1:31 PM

    You don’t even have the balls to identify yourself Twiterus.

    People like you used to make me very, very embarrassed to be Irish, but I’ve long since realised that they majority of Irish people are now at a stage where we recognise the need for legislation.

    Thankfully the EU will end the sham that makes ordinary, decent people have to go overseas to carry out terminations.

    PS

    There probably is no God.

    139
    Favourite EireBlueshirt
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    Mar 18th 2014, 1:42 PM

    That’s the thing. The majority don’t support the need for legislation. The people on the Journal do, but if you came down the country to where I live, there were marches every single day against abortion last summer, and there were people going round the pubs and houses raising money for the anti-abortion cause. And we will more than likely be leaving the EU soon. If the UK leave after their upcoming referendum, which they’re looking like they will according to opinion polls, we will more than likely leave with them, as they are our largest trading partner, so we will, thankfully, have little choice but to leave the EU.

    9
    Favourite Jane Travers
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    Mar 18th 2014, 1:44 PM

    EireBlueshirt, you feel “vicious hatred” for people like me? Are you proud of that?

    Personally, I’m proud of the fact that I don’t feel vicious hatred for any section of society. It must be horrible to be inside your head, and be so consumed with hatred. It’s very bad for your health, you know.

    157
    Favourite whynotme
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    Mar 18th 2014, 1:49 PM

    Never came across any of those daily marches ,EireBlueshirt ! Can you tell us what part of the country where these marches that I never heard of ,happened ?

    99
    Favourite Thomas Dooly
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    Mar 18th 2014, 2:02 PM

    Reading the comments on this thread ,Eire , you’d nearly prefer if Nicole was , not born !

    54
    Favourite Jane Travers
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    Mar 18th 2014, 2:04 PM

    EireBlueshirt, I try very hard to be polite even when a debate is raging. I don’t always succeed, but I genuinely try.

    However, I would never call another human being an animal as you have just done. Perhaps you might try to rein in some of the vitriol yourself.

    100
    Favourite Florence Nightingale
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    Mar 18th 2014, 2:28 PM

    @Twiterus

    “The Law is no more forcing this person to travel to England for an abortion than it is forcing organised criminals to travel to Eastern Europe for firearms training or forcing pedophiles to travel to Thailand to sexually abuse children.”

    No. But the law is FORCING women who cannot travel to the UK to carry unviable foetuses to term, causing unnecessary trauma to both the woman and the foetus.

    Is that something you can live with? Or are you of the opinion that women who are in this predicament should put up and shut up?

    82
    Favourite Andrea Rock Massey
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    Mar 18th 2014, 3:28 PM

    I hate to break it to you Eire but we will not be leaving the EU anytime soon…even if the UK vote to do so. Why on earth would you think that?

    70
    Favourite Sarah Collier
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    Mar 18th 2014, 3:38 PM

    Really sorry for your loss Michelle

    65
    Favourite Rob Cahill
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    Mar 18th 2014, 3:38 PM

    I’m really hoping twiterus and the other lunatics agreeing with him are Americans and not Irish.

    60
    Favourite EireBlueshirt
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    Mar 18th 2014, 4:07 PM

    I’m from Cork

    4
    Favourite Shanti
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    Mar 18th 2014, 4:27 PM

    If the majority is indeed “pro life” then why did we reject the 12th amendment and uphold the 13th and 14th?

    The 12th amendment sought to overturn the X case decision on the risk of suicide being considered a valid reason to be granted abortion. The Irish people voted no and upheld the Supreme Court ruling. We also had it written into our constitution that women should be allowed access to information on abortions as well as permitted to travel to have them.

    Please explain how that could be considered a “pro life” result?

    Because that is what the majority voted for.

    48
    Favourite whynotme
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    Mar 18th 2014, 4:32 PM

    So am I ,EireBlueshirt ! So , where are these “marches” going on , please tell me ?!

    58
    Favourite Marian Doherty
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    Mar 18th 2014, 4:44 PM

    My heart goes out to you I’m so sorry for your loss

    47
    Favourite Nicole McCormack
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    Mar 18th 2014, 4:56 PM

    Your a sick man indeed

    34
    Favourite Amanda Lynch
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    Mar 18th 2014, 5:38 PM

    How disgusting is your comment seriously!!! You have no idea of the heart break these couples go through!!! Shame on you and your comment !!

    47
    Favourite Amanda Lynch
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    Mar 18th 2014, 5:40 PM

    So would you rather give birth to a dead baby ? Funerals etc going thought the pregnancy with a bump with people asking “when are you due ?” Knowing your never going to raise this baby ? It’s shocking that this country expect this to be the case! It’s not fair at all

    72
    Favourite Arlette Lyons
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    Mar 18th 2014, 8:22 PM

    How many times do we have to scream this from the roof tops “THIS IS NOT ABOUT CHILDREN/BABIES WITH SPECIAL NEEDS OR DISABILITIES” Wow I am know more then ever convienced that people use this statement to sway away from the truth.
    This is about babies that have 0 chance of living outside the womb. I am going to break it down for those that cant seem to grasp the idea of FFA.

    1. The baby is either going to die in-utreo often before full term
    2. The baby will die during labour.
    3. The baby will die within minutes after the birth (in my case my baby would of struggled to breath and then die a few mins later.
    4. We get 2nd 3rd and sometimes 4th opinions on the diagnosis.
    5. We had a CVS test done results are 100% accurate.
    6. This is nothing to do with special needs or disabilities.
    7. These babies are wanted, planned and very much loved by parents and family.

    Time and time again I hear such nonesense in relation to TFMR people need to listen to the truth and not what they want to hear for their own agenga.
    I would of given anything to have my daughter with or without a disability but she was never going to live.
    Since I travelled to Liverpool I gave birth to my wonderful daughter last July who has a list of health problems including a cleft palate (which was operated on 2 weeks ago).

    How can other people decide what is best for our own babies. How dare anybody say what others should do when given the most horrific and heartbreaking news.

    You will never ever know what you will do in this situation until its on your door step.
    Please stop with the judging and all the nastiness.
    At the end of the a loving couple has lost a very very much loved baby.

    111
    Favourite Ailbhe O'Nolan
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    Mar 18th 2014, 8:42 PM

    Well said Arlette!

    44
    Favourite Amanda Lynch
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    Mar 18th 2014, 9:17 PM

    Well said Arlette, I fully support TFMR xxx

    38
    Favourite Shanti
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    Mar 18th 2014, 10:59 PM

    Hear hear Arlette, I suspect that the comments relating to disabilities are thrown in to try and muddy the waters too. There is a certain amount of black and white thinking that says any abortion is bad no matter what – they equate abortion with those garish and misleading descriptions that they hear and assume that this is what happens with TFMR. If they were willing to hear the truth it would shake their beliefs to the core – hence why they insist upon bringing up disabilities, claiming that the diagnosis may have been wrong – all the things that they would learn for themselves are not the case when it’s a wanted baby.

    You have and continue to show tremendous courage, despite what a few idealogues here may say, the majority are indeed with you on this one.

    37
    Favourite Arlette Lyons
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    Mar 18th 2014, 11:46 PM

    Thanks Ailbhe, Amanda and Shanti. Honestly sometimes I feel like I am loosing my mind when people can’t grasp what is going on when it comes to TFMR. We are all loving kind caring people/parents who only ever wanted a baby. A baby with or without special needs. Just a baby to bring into a loving family.
    What has really hurt and upset me in the past is that other people think that they have the right to tell me how to love MY unborn child, why they have the right to tell me what is right for MY unborn child, why they try to imply that they would have more love and respect for MY child. To be treated like an ignorant person that received some awful news and jumped at a Termination.
    Why can people not understand that for me and my husband that we thought long and hard about how we would proceed. When we decided to have a termination our first thought was for OUR baby 2nd came our living children and lastly was ourselves.
    Its 2 years down the line and although I regret that I was ever in that heartbreaking situation to make a soul destroying choice…… I don’t regret it. We often think about our baby and she is very much part of our family. I am truly at peace with our decision. I find it very ironic that those who claim to be “pro-life” are the very ones that spout the nasty venom, and have absolute no compassion, no understanding and certainly no empathy whatsoever. It is very easy to sit behind a monitor with a faceless name and shout the odds without ever having to face the misery and heartbreak you feel when you lose your baby. Although these people spread this nastiness, I honestly hope that they never ever have to be faced with a fatal foetal abnormailty diaganosis.

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    Favourite Shanti
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    Mar 19th 2014, 12:16 AM

    For at least some it is wilful ignorance Arlette. Take comfort in the knowledge that they represent the fringes of even the “pro life” movement.
    Anyone who has taken the time to listen to / read the words understands what the term “fatal” means. Anyone with the capability to feel compassion can see that this is not the same thing as the wider abortion debate. The situation, experience, motivation and intention are all completely different.
    I feel that those few ideologues who insist upon trying to muddy the waters are simply cruel and sadistic, they would rather torture families and unborn babies to satisfy their ideology. They relish in throwing around accusations of murder and comparisons to Nazis, because they wish to make people feel bad. It’s clear that compassion is not in their vocabulary.

    26
    Favourite Sailtee
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    Mar 19th 2014, 10:17 AM

    Sineád, what this couple needs more than anything is support – and not to be misinformed. Their baby will not suffer any pain after birth. The Journal has now made this false claim many times, and its not making the debate in any way honest or respecful, it’s scaremongering.

    This is an awful situation and there is pain and loss either way but most families say that spending even a short time with their baby helps with healing. Why don’t you ever give a voice to those families?

    6
    Favourite Sailtee
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    Mar 19th 2014, 10:19 AM

    Get off the stage Shanti you are in favour of abortion on demand. Don’t use people’s pain to try to push your own agenda.

    4
    Favourite Ailbhe O'Nolan
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    Mar 19th 2014, 11:21 AM

    Sailtee, who are you to decide what others think?! Don’t be so arrogant

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    Favourite Shanti
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    Mar 19th 2014, 11:35 AM

    Sailtee.
    If I support wider choice then by default I would support TFMR. I am however capable of realising that an abortion carried out due to not wanting to be pregnant or have a baby is quite different to wanting a baby and being told that it will not survive. The situation, experience, motivation and intention are all polar opposites.

    And by the way,
    https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/ad-hominem

    Now, with regards pain..
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1440624/

    From week 24 onward (and possibly even a few weeks before) it is confirmed that foetuses have the capacity to feel pain, prior to this point the neural capacity does not exist. Are you trying to claim that childbirth would not be a tremendously painful experience for the baby?
    That a child with no amniotic fluid cannot feel every bump and jolt experienced by the mother?

    After birth is something else entirely and whether the baby would be in pain is down to what the abnormality is. Suffocating due to the absence of properly developed lungs would hardly be called pleasant.

    20
    Favourite Colin B
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    Mar 19th 2014, 2:17 PM

    Its well established that Babies in-utero can feel pain after approximately week 24 (see Shanti’s link above). But isn’t one of the (fallacious) arguments pro-lifers use against abortion that fetuses can feel pain from 6 weeks? This doesn’t fit well with Sailtee’s comment that “Their baby will not suffer any pain after birth”. Shows how quick the pro-life league are to cast aside inconvenient facts as and when it suits them.

    BTW I hope the tone and subject matter of the discussions here are not causing upset to people who have experienced / are experiencing something like this. I cant even imagine the hurt it would cause to go through this and the lack of empathy shown here is appalling.

    25
    Favourite Ailbhe O'Nolan
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    Mar 19th 2014, 2:25 PM

    Well said Colin.

    It breaks my heart to think not only of the hurt people like Arlette above had to go through, but the vile hatred they read by those that lack empathy, emotions and any trace of humanity. Some people have a black and white view of life, some seem to think that their belief is gospel and should be forced on everybody else.

    Those that post on here about their experiences, and those who don’t, are very very brave. I cannot imagine what they have gone through.

    24
    Favourite Sailtee
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    Mar 20th 2014, 10:52 AM

    Shanti and Colin, you are not correct. Unborn babies can feel pain if pain is inflicted on them – ie they will feel the pain of the lethal injection that ends their life in a late term abortion. However, palliative care ensures that any pain or discomfort after birth is absolutely minimised. So please don’t misinform women who are already distressed and upset by a terrible diagnosis.

    2
    Favourite Shanti
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    Mar 20th 2014, 11:10 AM

    And as I already pointed out to you further upthread – the injection is optional, it’s offered after 21 weeks to minimise the pain felt by the foetus.
    As in – the pain of birth. Which is a little more prolonged and traumatic..

    11
    Favourite Christine Cake-fairy
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    Mar 20th 2014, 7:00 PM

    you obviously don’t know enough about certain disabilities to even comment. Unfortunately the harsh truth is, if the head won’t develop properly over the brain, the brain won’t grow properly and will be crushed. you can’t live without a brain. although I think in my lifetime guarantee have come across some people that make me question this.

    13
    Favourite Marion Murphy
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    Mar 21st 2014, 5:35 PM

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhZda15IvZg Lilly-Ann that was not supposed to survive but lived for 6 days. The mother’s dream was that she would live to feel fresh air on her face or will the pro-aborts define this mum as the cruel mother who permitted her disabled baby to live & the fact she celebrates her annual anniversary?

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    Favourite Marion Murphy
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    Mar 21st 2014, 5:40 PM

    Due to the cranium & spina bifida the condition with the above baby debilitates the child’s chance of surviving for long so therefore is disabled. The following mother allowed her child with the same condition to be born & her dream was that Lilly-Ann would feel fresh air on her face. A beautiful way to be remembered. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhZda15IvZg

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    Favourite Marion Murphy
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    Mar 22nd 2014, 9:48 AM

    Also the contradiction in situations such as the above & it may not be Irish law that is the problem here is when a child is aborted in the UK the remains of the child come under the category of ‘medical waste’ so how can people on the one hand expect to abort a disabled baby which then under UK law becomes ‘medical waste’ be lawfully permitted to transport the remains to Ireland & then have a normal human burial? A recent scandal emerged where a hospital in the mid-west held on to the remains of miscarried aborted & miscarried babies for longer than intended due to administration error. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2040601/The-doctors-told-abortion–Mother-cystic-fibrosis-defies-medics-birth.html

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    Favourite Marion Murphy
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    Mar 22nd 2014, 9:49 AM

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2583311/Remains-86-unborn-babies-abortions-miscarriages-cremated-months-kept-NHS-hospital-FOUR-years.html Also the contradiction in situations such as the above & it may not be Irish law that is the problem here is when a child is aborted in the UK the remains of the child come under the category of ‘medical waste’ so how can people on the one hand expect to abort a disabled baby which then under UK law becomes ‘medical waste’ be lawfully permitted to transport the remains to Ireland & then have a normal human burial? A recent scandal emerged where a hospital in the mid-west held on to the remains of miscarried aborted & miscarried babies for longer than intended due to administration error.

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    Favourite Shanti
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    Mar 22nd 2014, 2:14 PM

    Marion – if the mother WANTS to carry to term then she should receive every support to do so. No one is saying that she shouldn’t – but you refuse to accept that not every woman feels capable of doing so.
    In the UK if you terminate for medical reasons you can take your baby for a burial, unless you live in Ireland – where you cannot transport the body home so it gets incinerated and sent to you by courier.

    If women were permitted to terminate for these reasons here they could bury their children. It’s because of those who claim to be pro life that they must go overseas and this happens, not because of how the UK terms the remains.

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    Favourite Marion Murphy
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    Mar 23rd 2014, 9:35 AM

    Children born with fatal foetal abnormalities don’t actually suffer pain that is scientific fact witnessed by medical professionals here & abroad alongside families who have permitted their disabled babies to be born. In most circumstances they live short peaceful lives varying from days to months or sometimes a few yrs.

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    Favourite Ailbhe O'Nolan
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    Mar 23rd 2014, 10:08 PM

    Show us the research, show us the scientific research, peer reviewed and widely accepted, with NO opposing or contradicting research of the same calibre. That or do, with all due respect, shut up. You’re talking to yourself on an old article, trying to convince nobody of your unfounded claims.

    Thanking you kindly

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