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Comment #745290 by Patrick Moran

Patrick Moran Nov 21st 2012, 10:44 PM #

Must admit, I’m tending to come round to Tom’s way of thought. I saw the interview and think it would be difficult to not be touched by it, very cleverly and sensationally produced by Prime Time as usual. But as I was watching it the thought wondered into my head – would this be as high profile a story as it is if events happened exactly as they did but the woman in question was Irish ?

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Read the article where this comment appeared:

Praveen Halappanavar: "I still can't believe that she's not with us"

Praveen Halappanavar: "I still can't believe that she's not with us"

The husband of Savita Halappanavar told Prime Time tonight that he has no confidence in the HSE and wants a public, government-funded investigation into her death.

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    Favourite Kerry Blake
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    Nov 21st 2012, 10:49 PM

    Going back 20 years the X case was pretty high profile in Ireland and internationally Patrick and no one died in that case and the teenager involved was Irish.

    101
    Favourite Patrick Moran
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    Nov 21st 2012, 11:12 PM

    While I’m familiar with the X Case I’m afraid I don’t remember the atmosphere around it in Ireland and abroad as I was too young at the time to even know it was going on. Let me say that I sympathise with the family of the lady whose life was cut short prematurely, I do feel very saddened by the whole series of events. This has almost become an international diplomatic incident however, and that in itself politicises it and heaps ever more pressure and urgency on establishing exactly what happened. And therein is my point – we’ve heard only one side of the story so far and its high profile nature means that half the country has already executed Ireland for this lady’s death. We have no established facts yet from an impartial inquiry, but the tide of public opinion – formed from one half of a story – has been strong enough to gather momentum such as we are observing. If the lady was Irish, well the international diplomatic side of things wouldn’t come into it and it would be one less thing stoking the fire, so to speak.

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    Favourite michael o'toole
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    Nov 21st 2012, 11:16 PM

    well Patrick.
    there was a recent case in my home town, where a mother of 12 children in her 30s – a member of the travelling community, went into hospital for a minor procedure,
    somehing went wrong & she died.
    i don’t even know if it was reported in the local press – i didn’t hear of it.

    the first i heard of it was in recent weeks, when a case was brought against the consultant involved.
    incidentally, the consultant who was not Irish – he may have been Indian or Pakestinian, was cleared of all charges.

    the unfortunate lady & her family wasn’t middle class,
    she wasn’t exotic looking,
    her ‘problem’ wasn’t pregnancy related,
    so the pro abortion lobby didn’t jump on the bandwagon.

    59
    Favourite Patrick Moran
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    Nov 21st 2012, 11:22 PM

    That wasn’t a sexy enough case Michael. This one is and hence I end up talking to you on Journal.ie.

    27
    Favourite Kerry Blake
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    Nov 21st 2012, 11:24 PM

    Fair enough Patrick I’m (sadly) old enough to remember the atmosphere and what was said by people who should have known better.

    35
    Favourite Eileen Gabbett
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    Nov 21st 2012, 11:31 PM
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    Favourite Mags Whelan
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    Nov 22nd 2012, 12:29 AM

    @michael O Toole
    What a ridiculous comparison to make!! The issue at hand here is thanks to our outdated abortion laws a woman lost her life. Although very sad about the woman you mention in the travelling community, I doubt her death was caused by archaic laws with a bit of help from narrow minded pro lifers!

    49
    Favourite michael o'toole
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    Nov 22nd 2012, 12:36 AM

    @ Patrick Moran
    Patrick – you say “That wasn’t a sexy enough case Michael”. – yeah , i think that’s part of the explanation.
    BTW – i understand that the Galway hospital where Sabita tragically died, has an excellent record in relation to childbirth,
    but it hasn’t a 100% record – that’s impossible for any hospital, anywhere.
    i understand that the last lady to die in that hospital, as a result of ‘childbirth dificulties’ was about 18 years ago.
    i don’t know how much publicity, if any, that tragedy attracted.
    not very much, i’d expect.
    one reason, i’d contend was that the pro-abortion lobby wasn’t so strong back then.

    13
    Favourite Shanti Om
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    Nov 22nd 2012, 12:45 AM

    Michael.
    The lady’s name was SAVITA. Please, show more respect and get her name right.
    Also, try to remember that she was having a miscarriage, not giving birth.
    I may have missed the point but this traveller woman went in for a procedure and died – which is perhaps more common than you would think. Savita on the other hand was told that she was miscarrying the baby that she had been eagerly awaiting the birth of, she had come to terms with the idea that this would not happen and ASKED for them to terminate. To effectively speed up the inevitable and was refused a medical procedure because of the presence of a doomed heartbeat.

    There appears to be a Grand Canyon between the two cases, unless this traveller woman requested medical intervention in a similar situation and was refused?

    71
    Favourite michael o'toole
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    Nov 22nd 2012, 12:53 AM

    @ Mags Whelan:
    Mags – sorry but we don’t know, at all, at all, that Savita’s death ” was caused by archaic laws with a bit of help from narrow minded pro lifers!”
    we don’t know why she died,
    that’s why all concerned are seeking an enquiery..
    the only argument is the type of enquiery.

    of course, if Mags Whelan was infalible, they’d be no need for any enquiery.
    Mags may be extremely arrogant,
    but she’s not infalible.

    23
    Favourite michael o'toole
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    Nov 22nd 2012, 1:08 AM

    @ Shanti Om
    i didn’t intend to disrespect anyone by my spelling error – you know that,
    but you can’t resist being judgemental..

    IF matters occurred as you describe them, then i believe that there would be a case against the medical person/persons responsible.
    BUT the evidence from all concerned has to be heard & considered before any such conclusion can be reached.

    you have already done me an injustice, by suggesting that i was disrespectful to Savita, God rest her.
    that’s not too serious – i forgive you.
    it’s far, far more serious to reach a conclusion & condemn someone for the tragic death, before all the evidence is considered,
    & i can’t forgive you for that.

    26
    Favourite M Bowe
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    Nov 22nd 2012, 1:19 AM

    This was Not a case of Child birth. The pregnancy was never going to go full term or end in a birth. So all these stats about Ireland’s high standing on births is just smoke screen.

    43
    Favourite Shanti Om
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    Nov 22nd 2012, 1:44 AM

    That’s a fine catch of red herring there Michael.

    Again, I put it to you, how does the case you reference compare to this in any way shape or form? I used the facts as they have been reported, based upon interviews with Savitas widower Praveen, are you suggesting that he is a liar?

    By the way if it was a typo fair enough, my apologies.. No need to go chucking any more arsenic in that well..

    34
    Favourite michael o'toole
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    Nov 22nd 2012, 3:36 AM

    @Shanti Om:
    the comment of mine that you refer to was a response to another comment.
    i wasn’t comparing the two cases – on the contrary, as a response, i was contrasting them.
    one of the cases occurred in my local hospital.

    how dare you suggest that i “suggest that Praveen is a liar?”
    a person accused of the most henious crime is entitled to a fair trial, involving all relevant evidence.
    the Galway medical team are surely entitled to that much at least, before a verdict is reached ???
    but on the evidence of much of the comment here, including yours, it appears that there’s no need to hear all sides of the story.

    re my typo errors
    you are the only one who is “chucking more arsenic in that well”
    you already accused me of being disrespectul to Pavita.
    i told you i intended no disrespect
    it should be clear to you that my keyboard skills are far from perfect,
    but you find it hard to admit that you were wrong – don’t you.

    15
    Favourite Paul Mallon
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    Nov 22nd 2012, 10:28 AM

    Irrespective of the reason this case is in the media, the core issues remain the same.

    6
    Favourite Shanti Om
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    Nov 22nd 2012, 6:14 PM

    Ah now Michael.

    The original comment you responded to asked if the SAME situation had happened with an Irish woman would it have got the same reaction.
    You told a story with no details besides “she had a procedure and died”. Is it the same situation? In my first response to you I pointed out that I may have for the wrong end of the stick and that there appeared to be some range of difference, I tried to point out that difference – but I did state that I may have misunderstood your point.

    YOU took my mistake in correcting your typo and used it as an excuse to cast your assumptions on me. Did I not apologise for making this mistake?
    I also asked you to clarify – why bring this terrible death under completely unknown circumstances up in relation to this case where we have substantially more information, the information I referenced in my reply..
    I did not accuse you of calling Savitas widower a liar, I asked if you were disputing the facts I listed as they were taken from him.

    Now.. Would YOU like to apologise as I already have done where I was wrong?

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    Favourite michael o'toole
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    Nov 22nd 2012, 6:23 PM

    ‘@ Shanti Om:
    apologise for what ??

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    Favourite Shanti Om
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    Nov 22nd 2012, 6:44 PM

    You said that I couldn’t resist being judgemental, yet I apologised for castigating you over a typo.

    You also say I can’t admit that I am wrong – when I already had..

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    Favourite michael o'toole
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    Nov 22nd 2012, 10:09 PM

    @ Shanti Om
    i neither asked for, or expected an apology from you.
    you did me wrong – nevertheless, i had moved on & forgot about it, & i told you i had moved on.
    time for you to move on now
    i would like it if you tried to be a bit more fairminded in future.
    that’s all.

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