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Comment #2100852 by Niall Boylan

Niall Boylan Feb 8th 2014, 4:14 PM #

And there was me thinking Ireland was the only country with backward thinking on women’s rights on their own reproductive systems.

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Pics: Pro-choice activists protest Spanish abortion plans at embassy in Dublin

Pics: Pro-choice activists protest Spanish abortion plans at embassy in Dublin

Draft legislation published by the Spanish government would make access to abortion more restricted in the country, with groups saying it will force women to go abroad for terminations.

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    Favourite Dom AcePlazo
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    Feb 8th 2014, 4:34 PM

    Just a storm in a tea cup.

    35
    Favourite King Olaf
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    Feb 8th 2014, 4:51 PM

    Yes hopefully if Ireland does away with this backward thinking, we can eventually sort out mens reproductive rights.

    51
    Favourite Philip
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    Feb 8th 2014, 5:03 PM

    More than 50, wow this should be the first item on the 6 one news

    68
    Favourite hdfsjkah
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    Feb 8th 2014, 5:44 PM

    Oh great Niall Boylan opinion
    I wonder what his opinion is based on

    20
    Favourite Nicole McCormack
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    Feb 8th 2014, 5:53 PM

    Typical right wing religious nut. Say a prayer. Great to see those women protesting and saving women’s lives.

    83
    Favourite hdfsjkah
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    Feb 8th 2014, 6:53 PM

    Sorry Nicole were you putting forward a reasoned argument against a law that will address the biggest killer in Western Europe

    34
    Favourite Nicole McCormack
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    Feb 8th 2014, 7:29 PM

    Well no point in debating with you. Your religious beliefs kill women. And they are all ready alive unlike the foetus’s you are referring too. But then you will go to heaven. Bless

    64
    Favourite Ogochukwu'sbrother
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    Feb 8th 2014, 7:45 PM

    Nicole ..lol ..respect ..lol

    32
    Favourite hdfsjkah
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    Feb 8th 2014, 8:08 PM

    Nicole Im going to give this a go but I think it might be pointless

    1. I have no strong religious beliefs
    2. human fetuses are alive when aborted otherwise it would be called a ERPC
    3. You are wrong

    35
    Favourite Ogochukwu'sbrother
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    Feb 8th 2014, 8:45 PM

    lol pointless as usual ..lol

    6
    Favourite executioner
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    Feb 8th 2014, 8:57 PM

    What about the babies right or as you baby terminaters like to call it the foetus ,haven’t they got rights too? or is it you just don’t want to think about what actually happens when an abortion is carried out.

    32
    Favourite art vandelay
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    Feb 8th 2014, 9:15 PM

    They don’t have rights that’s the point!

    27
    Favourite Nicole McCormack
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    Feb 8th 2014, 11:01 PM

    Yep pointless. I don’t listen to lies

    13
    Favourite hdfsjkah
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    Feb 8th 2014, 11:02 PM

    lol

    7
    Favourite Shanti
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    Feb 8th 2014, 11:35 PM

    I’m just going to leave this link to hdfsjkah’s blog here..

    http://seamyjamesy.wordpress.com/2014/01/11/raison-detre/
    “I decided to start this blog after coming across a growing culture of what I guess can best be described as scientific fundamentalism or militant atheism. The proponents of these beliefs are often very hostile to those who hold religious beliefs, or disagree with their view that science supports a left-wing liberal agenda.”

    18
    Favourite Bridget
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    Feb 8th 2014, 11:45 PM

    You don’t have to be a religious Nut to believe that abortion is just plain
    Wrong

    18
    Favourite Bridget
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    Feb 9th 2014, 12:05 AM

    Abortion is not a Reproductive Right it’s the ending of a Life.

    19
    Favourite Shanti
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    Feb 9th 2014, 12:37 AM

    Bridget.
    You are well within your rights to believe that abortion is wrong. But, as it is your belief, you must respect that your belief is not universal, and that you have no right to force your beliefs upon others.

    No one is asking you to have one. They’re just asking you to keep your nose out of other people’s business and let them live their lives and decide what does and doesn’t happen to their bodies. Same way we keep our noses out of what you do with yours.

    20
    Favourite Bridget
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    Feb 9th 2014, 12:52 AM

    No

    That is just exactly what the Pro-Abortion crowd would like.

    Everyone to stand aside and say nothing.

    Nothing about the Ending of an Innocent Human Being.

    Mark it up to reproductive rights, what about the Right to Life, is that not more important!
    Yes it is..

    9
    Favourite Shanti
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    Feb 9th 2014, 1:09 AM

    And what would you propose Bridget?
    Would you advocate imprisoning a woman who was pregnant and did not want to be?

    Because if a woman really doesn’t want to be pregnant, she will find a way to end that pregnancy. The question is, would you rather she took a clinically tested pill to induce an abortion
    or;
    Took matters into her own hands, let’s see – some commonly known methods like threw herself down the stairs, maybe drank some pennyroyal tea and jabbed a knitting needle dipped in gin up inside herself?

    Because making abortion illegal doesn’t stop women doing anything they can to end the pregnancy if that is what they have decided to do.

    So, which would you prefer Bridget?
    A foetus that has not yet gotten to a point that it had any idea it was alive dies, or both of them do?
    If we didn’t have the UK taking care of Irish women in these circumstances, we would have maternal death rates more comparable to other countries that restrict access to the level we have.

    If you are so against abortion, I hope you campaign just as actively for access to free contraception and access to factual sex education at schools.

    14
    Favourite Bridget
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    Feb 9th 2014, 10:31 AM

    Agh Shanti not that old line
    Women are going to have abortions so we might as well make it legal..
    It’s like saying people are always going murder people so we might as well make it legal..
    Or burglar are always going to burgle so we’ll make that legal..
    No law should give Me or You the permission to do something wrong no matter how much we want it..

    5
    Favourite Nicole McCormack
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    Feb 9th 2014, 11:07 AM

    The truth is very inconvenient to the religious right.

    11
    Favourite Nicole McCormack
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    Feb 9th 2014, 11:07 AM

    No but it sure helps Bridget.

    8
    Favourite Florence Nightingale
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    Feb 9th 2014, 11:29 AM

    @executioner

    “What about the babies right or as you baby terminaters like to call it the foetus ,haven’t they got rights too? or is it you just don’t want to think about what actually happens when an abortion is carried out?”

    A foetus does not have rights.

    And it’s an easy mistake to make to assume that people who are pro choice don’t know what happens when an abortion is carried out.

    An abortion destroys a foetus. As most abortions are carried out before 9 weeks gestation, it resembles nothing more than a heavy period. But don’t think that no one understands what happens when an abortion is carried out. This is why most people who are pro choice want abortion to be safe, legal and above all RARE. Very rare.

    Generally, people who are pro choice would much prefer an unwanted pregnancy to have been prevented in the first place. Or for conditions in society to be far more supportive for a woman with a crisis pregnancy who is considering an abortion for financial reasons or because she’s in a violent relationship.

    10
    Favourite paul breslin
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    Feb 9th 2014, 12:30 PM

    So the thousands protesting the law in Madrid isn’t worthy of reporting as well ?

    5
    Favourite Shanti
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    Feb 9th 2014, 1:47 PM

    Again Bridget – what do you suggest we do instead?
    Chain women to beds until they give birth?
    Lock them up?
    Let them go to England so you can tell yourself, Ireland is “pro life”??

    Yup, really realistic..
    Again – are you campaigning as heavily for free contraception and proper factual mandatory sex education? Because if you aren’t then you are a grade A hypocrite..

    7
    Favourite hdfsjkah
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    Feb 9th 2014, 1:51 PM

    How about take responsibility for their own actions
    Like we force men to do
    shhh feminists

    3
    Favourite Florence Nightingale
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    Feb 9th 2014, 2:12 PM

    @hsfguidsgf

    “How about take responsibility for their own actions
    Like we force men to do…”

    Um… what?

    Usual black and white thinking. Complete lack of comprehension that the pregnant woman is a PERSON and thus has a complex life that cannot be boiled down into an easy sound bite.

    What are you actually suggesting in all the rhetoric you’ve posted on these pages? Do you want to literally force a woman who does not want to be pregnant to give birth? Is that what you want?

    If that’s not what you want, what do you then suggest? I’m actually genuinely curious to know what should be done with women who have unwanted pregnancies if abortion is not an option.

    Because if you wish to deny a woman the right to have an abortion, then you are forcing your beliefs onto another person and this is, to use a word that is so beloved to you, wrong.

    6
    Favourite Shanti
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    Feb 9th 2014, 2:21 PM

    We force men to take responsibility do we?
    I must tell that to the women I know who were left raising their kids while the fathers ran off to other countries rather than “take responsibility” then..

    8
    Favourite hdfsjkah
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    Feb 9th 2014, 2:42 PM

    And florence you lack comprehension that fetus is also a human being

    People who commit murder are alos human beings with complex lives
    whats your point???

    I am forcing my belief onto people like society forces people not to commit murder rape etc

    Shanti I was talking about the way the criminal justice system treats men compared to women

    2
    Favourite Shanti
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    Feb 9th 2014, 2:47 PM

    Right.. But we are talking about abortion, so why land a catch of red herring?

    7
    Favourite Florence Nightingale
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    Feb 9th 2014, 3:00 PM

    @hdfs

    “And florence you lack comprehension that fetus is also a human being…”

    Another error. I am perfectly aware that the foetus is human. But it is not a person.

    “People who commit murder are also human beings with complex lives. What’s your point???”

    You really do love your arbitrary analogies, don’t you? I’m not talking about people who commit murder. I’m talking about women who are pregnant when they don’t want to be. I find it strange that you cannot remain focused on a particular group of people to make your points.

    Women who are pregnant have a unique position in society. For 9 months, another human grows inside them. But that foetus is only there because the woman allows it to remain. In order for women to retain their personhood and status of fully-functioning human being, this is the way it should be.

    “I am forcing my belief onto people like society forces people not to commit murder rape etc ”

    Your belief is just that: belief. Society punishes people who murder, rape etc. But these people have already been born. That you view the destruction of a foetus in the same light as someone who murders another person is a perfectly fine position to have. It is your right to believe this. But my position is that because a foetus can only exist inside a woman’s body up to around 24 weeks, then the woman’s rights comes first.

    7
    Favourite hdfsjkah
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    Feb 9th 2014, 3:12 PM

    Shanti and analogy — very valid form of arguing about social issues

    Florence if you don’t see my point I think you might be too dim for this conversation

    2
    Favourite Florence Nightingale
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    Feb 9th 2014, 3:15 PM

    @sifuhgpaieuhgpiearg

    “Florence if you don’t see my point I think you might be too dim for this conversation…”

    Meow! Kitty got claws!

    6
    Favourite hdfsjkah
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    Feb 9th 2014, 3:18 PM

    Florence I afraid thats the truth

    2
    Favourite Florence Nightingale
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    Feb 9th 2014, 3:25 PM

    @hdfs

    I’m still very interested to know what you think women with unwanted pregnancies should do in your world. You haven’t really clarified your position in that regard.

    6
    Favourite hdfsjkah
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    Feb 9th 2014, 3:27 PM

    Give it up for adoption
    and act responsibly in the future
    humans beings are not disposable whatever age they are

    3
    Favourite Florence Nightingale
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    Feb 9th 2014, 3:28 PM

    @hdfs

    Thank you for clarifying.

    What about:

    -Pregnancy caused by rape?
    -Pregnancy where the woman’s life or health is at risk?
    -Fatal foetal syndrome?

    6
    Favourite hdfsjkah
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    Feb 9th 2014, 3:29 PM

    Obviously you haven’t read my blog because I have mentioned these many times

    Says alot about you the way you jump the gun like that

    2
    Favourite Florence Nightingale
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    Feb 9th 2014, 3:32 PM

    @hdfs

    “Obviously you haven’t read my blog because I have mentioned these many times

    Says a lot about you the way you jump the gun like that”

    I didn’t realize reading your blog was a prerequisite to us discussing stuff on this forum. I read the single article you linked to above. I didn’t find anything in it that I didn’t already know. :)

    5
    Favourite hdfsjkah
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    Feb 9th 2014, 3:34 PM

    What about:

    -Pregnancy caused by rape?
    -Pregnancy where the woman’s life or health is at risk?
    -Fatal foetal syndrome?

    I answered your question in that blog post

    1
    Favourite Florence Nightingale
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    Feb 9th 2014, 3:38 PM

    Fair enough. (I’m still not going to read it, though, but I’ll accept that you’ve explained your position).

    You mention above:

    “and act responsibly in the future…”

    Care to clarify what you mean by this?

    Use contraception (which sometimes fails)?
    Abstain from sex?
    Don’t get raped?
    Don’t have health issues?

    Or is there something I’m missing?

    7
    Favourite hdfsjkah
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    Feb 9th 2014, 3:42 PM

    Florence make up your mind you say in one post you read it and second you didn’t
    obviously you didn’t because then you wouldn’t have asked these
    Don’t get raped?
    Don’t have health issues?

    Is it inconceivable (pardon the pun) to suggest that people refrain from activities where the biological consequence of that action is so terrible that you must be given the right to kill

    Having you cake and eating it
    probably the source of the wider ills of this world

    2
    Favourite Florence Nightingale
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    Feb 9th 2014, 3:45 PM

    @hdfs

    “Give it up for adoption…”

    In relation to this point,:

    Adoption is not a panacea for all ills. It is an option certainly for some women. But to use the option so glibly and to assume it’s an option for everyone shows a certain blinkered approach to the topic.

    Adoption as the only option means that a woman who does not wish to be pregnant must carry through the pregnancy to the end. This means putting her own health and life at risk to do so. The risk is small in a country like Ireland but it is still there.

    In your world, are you happy to force a woman to take this risk just so she can give up her baby for adoption at the end?

    7
    Favourite hdfsjkah
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    Feb 9th 2014, 4:58 PM

    Yes so instead of adoption it is better to kill the child

    pathological v physiological flaw once again

    I happy to force her to not kill a child

    1
    Favourite Florence Nightingale
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    Feb 9th 2014, 5:09 PM

    @hdfs

    “I happy to force her to not kill a child…”

    Okay, now we’re getting somewhere.

    So if adoption is the only option in these circumstances, what do you propose should happen regarding the 4000 women who travel to the UK each year to obtain an abortion?

    Limit their travel?
    Give all women pregnancy tests at the ports and airports?
    Lock them up in houses until they give birth and then have the child put up for adoption?

    7
    Favourite hdfsjkah
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    Feb 9th 2014, 5:12 PM

    Florence I am not the one campaigning to change the law
    I am simply saying that abortion is a very ethically questionable act, akin to murder, and like murder can only be justified in certain circumstances

    *I am not using the legal definition of murder just so you don’t go all crazy on me

    1
    Favourite Shanti
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    Feb 9th 2014, 6:13 PM

    Very politician like answer there, as in you answered a completely different question to the ones asked..

    5
    Favourite Florence Nightingale
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    Feb 9th 2014, 6:24 PM

    @hdfs

    “Florence I am not the one campaigning to change the law…”

    My question is still pertinent. Hypothetically speaking, if adoption is the only option available to women in your world, what do you propose should happen to women who seek to travel to the UK for abortions?

    It’s a pretty simple question.

    4
    Favourite hdfsjkah
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    Feb 9th 2014, 7:38 PM

    Florence the law is clear on that
    I have no issue with that part of the law as it stands

    1
    Favourite hdfsjkah
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    Feb 9th 2014, 7:38 PM

    Yes Shanti whatever you want to believe

    1
    Favourite Bridget
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    Feb 9th 2014, 9:52 PM

    Nicole I sure hope you are responding to Pro Life people not defending the Right to Life of the unborn not on Any Law giving me permission to do something wrong just because it is popular at that time..

    Florence .. Life is never black & white & I don’t think that anyone really believed it is..

    However these are the times in life when you sometimes, just sometimes have to put other people’s needs & wants in front of your own.

    I’m not talking about withholding Life saving treatment for any woman but deliberate abortion

    Rape is a terrible terrible thing to happen to anyone however Abortion will never undo a rape.

    1
    Favourite cleopatra
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    Feb 10th 2014, 9:25 AM

    Man, you had me at don’t get raped…..

    7

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