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Comment #5204851 by Aidan Duggan

Aidan Duggan Jun 24th 2016, 8:26 AM #

The articles today are like April fools day but they’re all real.

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David Cameron is resigning as UK Prime Minister

David Cameron is resigning as UK Prime Minister

He announced his resignation hours after the UK voted to leave the European Union.

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    Favourite cholly appleseed
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    Jun 24th 2016, 8:30 AM

    Trump should run as prime minister. We have been mocking the Americans with their stupidity and support of trump but Britain is effectively building a wall. They have lost to fear and bigotry.

    386
    Favourite Ó Connmhaigh
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    Jun 24th 2016, 8:36 AM

    A vote for freedom.
    A vote for independence.
    A vote for democracy.

    228
    Favourite David Murphey
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    Jun 24th 2016, 8:37 AM

    A vote for the far Right.

    (Of course, the Looney Left will say it’s a victory for the working class.)

    248
    Favourite Tom Kelly
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    Jun 24th 2016, 8:38 AM

    Sometimes it isn’t wise to give the great unwashed a vote. Could you imagine being a tax payer and voting yes only to be out done by wasters that have no education or no drive and is bitter because some foreigner is taking his council gaff. One thing for sure is the UK is most certainly not united.

    482
    Favourite Machiavelli O'Reilly
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    Jun 24th 2016, 8:39 AM

    David it was poor, working class, left wing labour voters in the north that largely carried this vote. God bless democracy

    181
    Favourite David Murphey
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    Jun 24th 2016, 8:42 AM

    No word from Jeremy Corbyn? He’ll have to resign also.

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    Favourite Old Gabby Johnson
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    Jun 24th 2016, 8:46 AM

    Boris and trump.. Populism, extremism.. Easy answers to tough questions.. The rise of the far right and far left.. We’ve seen it all before and it seems humanity has learned nothing from history.

    182
    Favourite Gus Dennis
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    Jun 24th 2016, 8:47 AM

    Yes

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    Favourite LITTLEONE
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    Jun 24th 2016, 8:49 AM

    Gabby. Maybe it’s the corruption, cronyism, arrogance, these are the answers. People have had enough. Maybe it’s time for a whole new way. The right way.

    134
    Favourite Neal Ireland Hello
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    Jun 24th 2016, 8:53 AM

    Democracy? Their next prime minister is now going to be chosen by a few thousand members of a party that got one third of the vote in the last election.

    83
    Favourite Ó Connmhaigh
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    Jun 24th 2016, 8:56 AM

    Like Gordon Brown was.

    44
    Favourite Beachmaster
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    Jun 24th 2016, 9:02 AM

    EP pres Martin Schulz says there will be “consequences” for Britain so other EU countries are not “encouraged to follow that dangerous path”

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    Favourite Stephen Foster
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    Jun 24th 2016, 9:02 AM

    You hit the nail on the head Old Gabby. The world is moving towards more extreme view points and it looks like we’ve learned nothing from the past. Fear, and those who sell it, is reigning and ruling the masses.

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    Favourite Bobby Phelan
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    Jun 24th 2016, 9:02 AM

    the eu treated the people like crap there was no union ever

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    Favourite Mark Jones
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    Jun 24th 2016, 9:02 AM

    Whats next Donald Trump as president, Gerry Addams as taoiseach.

    44
    Favourite Greg Kelly
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    Jun 24th 2016, 9:03 AM

    All we need now is Boris as the UK PM, Trump in the US and now this will spur on Le Pen and the other far right and/or loony left nuts in Europe. Ukip, Syriza, Trump and SInn Fein share one thing …. Pure populism and bandwagon hoping and thats what’s dangerous about them all whether they are to either end of the spectrum.

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    Favourite Titus Groan
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    Jun 24th 2016, 9:05 AM

    “You’re scare mongering. Lies” they said when the experts warned of an economic shock. When everyone was warned about this, people claimed it was propaganda. Well now the markets have crashed. Banks down as much as 35% on the market. Construction down something awful, Mark Carney needing to make a statement about how the hell we now avoid a “technical recession”. Good work Leave guys, you’ve played a blinder. You managed to wreck the place in one night. So disappointed with this.

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    Favourite Titus Groan
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    Jun 24th 2016, 9:07 AM

    “The worst economic event since Black Wednesday.” Farage admits “OK so maybe there isn’t 350m a week for the NHS. ” This is horse sh!t.

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    Favourite John R
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    Jun 24th 2016, 9:09 AM

    LITTLEONE, maybe it is but does anyone at all believe that this result is likely to lead to that end? There were two options on the ballot paper. Does anyone think that voting for one or the other was ever going to lead to “The right way”? Could we even find agreement on what that way is?

    People are unhappy. People are protesting. People are fearful. But the UK have just cut off their nose to spite their face. They have voted to go it alone. They will find that all the problems they blamed the EU for still exist but that their capacity to act with others to deal with those problems has diminished.

    Yet another example of populism and an absence of rationalism – ob both sides might I add but to to a greater extent on the Leave side.

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    Favourite Valthebear
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    Jun 24th 2016, 9:12 AM

    Nonsense. Many second generation immigrants voted for brexit. Working British people of all races and creeds felt disenfranchised by establishment. For me, the moment when Osborne said brexit would lead to lower house prices was key

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    Favourite Gerry Campbell
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    Jun 24th 2016, 9:14 AM

    Time will tell if indeed God has blessed this one .. The price of premiership footballers and their wages will change, I know it’s petty, but it’s going to be one of the things us ordinary , bad at maths , numptys, can watch . I fear lean times ahead for the poor , as usual. Not the crowd that lead the poor of course, no they will be grand , just the actual poor families , reminds me of something !

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    Favourite Valthebear
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    Jun 24th 2016, 9:14 AM

    Oh dear Titus. Shares down, house prices to fall. The working people of North East England must be gutted.

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    Favourite Ian Scott
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    Jun 24th 2016, 9:16 AM

    Shut up you muppet. People want out of eu and its corruption and dictatorship… Simple… Ireland should have defaulted on its loans and put ireland first not end Kenny the eu lapdog s wishes… Cost ireland it’s future 10 years..

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    Favourite John R
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    Jun 24th 2016, 9:17 AM

    Really Bobby? How did the EU treat the people like crap? The UK opted out of the EU social charter designed to protect workers. Was that the EUs fault as well? The UK opted out of the EU immigration system and yet blames the EU for the consequences of their own immigration choices. They have now essentially voted to block free movement of European workers who by and large share the same values as them and persist with issuing visas to former commonwealth countries like Pakistan who do not share the same cultural or religious values. But this is all the EUs fault somehow?

    Low wages, de-industrialisation, free-trade, importing large numbers of workers from abroad – these are all choices that successive UK governments made – not the EU. But the EU is certainly a convenient scapegoat. Cameron had to go but the remaining choices for PM are much worse.

    The UK (i.e. England and Wales) have made their choice for their own reasons with no consideration for the impact on others. That is their prerogative. Having done so they may find that others now feel exactly the same.

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    Favourite Alan Scott
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    Jun 24th 2016, 9:17 AM

    Think all of us in Ireland should be a more worried about what will happen here rather than the UK. Now that the UK has started the ball rolling maybe some other Countries will follow

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    Favourite Titus Groan
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    Jun 24th 2016, 9:18 AM

    Are you actually stupid? Do you think that has no knock on effect? I hope you aren’t a young Brit in need of some credit. Ah but sure it’s grand. Only the working classes matter sure. God forbid anybody does any better for themselves.

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    Favourite Wally Mooney
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    Jun 24th 2016, 9:20 AM

    Gabby,
    The rise of the far right across Europe is directly attributable to the pro capital, anti working class ideology which you advocate.

    Capitalism is a system which is based on the exploitation of the majority working class in order to enrich the minority capitalist class. This model results in a chasm of inequality with abject poverty on one side and obscene wealth on the other. Our politics, media and education systems are designed to obscure this harsh reality while our governments fully support this exploitative socioeconomic system.

    This results in large numbers of people living in varying degrees of poverty and desperation and not understanding fully why that is the case. This gap in understanding is what the right wing populists (e.g. UKIP and Trump) and quasi fascists (e.g. Britain First) exploit to drag themselves to power. They too lie to the working class and blame easy scapegoats like immigrants or Muslims for the dire straits in which the majority working class finds itself. This is the road to oppression, violence and war.

    We have the resources to provide everyone with a decent home, healthcare, education and a job. It is an ideological choice not to do so. The options facing humanity are socialism or barbarism.

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    Favourite Derek Trotter
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    Jun 24th 2016, 9:21 AM

    A leader of a country who steps down when he feels his country is not behind him… ENDA take notice.

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    Favourite LITTLEONE
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    Jun 24th 2016, 9:21 AM

    John r. Agree the problems still exist but the changes now are a foot . Each country in the UK now has a choice. Scotland referendum will be next on leaving the UK. The union may break up now. If that happens , each country will have to answer to their people. The Scots to the Scots. No longer would it be Westminster pulling the strings. They may all come out stronger from this result.

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    Favourite Greg Kelly
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    Jun 24th 2016, 9:25 AM

    Val, the markets do matter to everybody , not just the rich. Anybody who happens to have a pension or will be retiring in the next few years will be affected by the markets. Pension funds are managed and most of a persons pension is in shares especially in the early to middle years so it does matter to them yes.

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    Favourite John R
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    Jun 24th 2016, 9:25 AM

    Oh Ian what a simple world you must live in. Ireland should have defaulted on its loans? And what then? No functioning bank system and no one willing to lend us money.Do you seriously imagine that we could have avoided the consequences of our own economic stupidity by a simple default? We were in for a world of pain anyway. One can argue over the way in which our economic meltdown was dealt with in the context of our banks and the Euro but it was our economic meltdown – we did it to ourselves. We also signed up to the Euro knowing full well that the institutional architecture was not robust enough. But we are always the victim. Its’s always someone else’s fault.

    I think that the UK decision means that they have now lost a very convenient scapegoat in the EU. Whatever happens from here on out it is down to them. And they won’t like it I can guarantee you. Cameron gambled for reasons connected with the Tory party political infighting and to win votes from UKIP in the last election. He lost and so did the UK. Who could have imagined the stupidy of someone who has managed to put a political non-entity like Nigel Farange center stage? Simply wonderful.

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    Favourite Francid Dooley
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    Jun 24th 2016, 9:32 AM

    ??

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    Favourite dominic
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    Jun 24th 2016, 9:36 AM

    And add Farage to the dodgy cocktail

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    Favourite Old Gabby Johnson
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    Jun 24th 2016, 9:39 AM

    Wally what drugs are you on seriously? If you can’t see a connect between the two extremisms the one you advocate and the one which Britain first advocates – the line is so thin that one could create 90% of the argument of the opposing point of view and still be advocating their own argument – that’s what extremism does. You speak in absolutes, easy answers to tough questions… because ‘A’ has happened then we have to do ‘b’ .. ‘b’ being the absolute opposite to ‘A’. Your ilk are populists the exact same way as Trump, Farage are populists… giving the masses the easy answers that can fit into a tabloid headline.

    For the record i’m middle of the road and can vote for positions based on argument and not a theology.. that means that i can be both right and left.

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    Favourite Old Gabby Johnson
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    Jun 24th 2016, 9:44 AM

    @wally The rise of the far right is chiefly about racism.. about politicians saying to the non or little educated – you are where you are because someone else has taken your job and that that lad with colour is dangerous… or you where you are because that guy over there has your stuff. Its the same argument co-incidentally that you make… two edges of the same sword.

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    Favourite Gerry Campbell
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    Jun 24th 2016, 9:44 AM

    Finish that sentence bear, “Must be gutted, to maintain our lifestyle” that’s more like the reality .

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    Favourite Wally Mooney
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    Jun 24th 2016, 9:52 AM

    Gabby,
    Please explain how my position below is extremist?

    “We have the resources to provide everyone with a decent home, healthcare, education and a job. It is an ideological choice not to do so”

    In reality it is the current capitalist system which is absolutely extremist. 62 individuals now hold the same wealth as the poorest half of the globes population, 3500 million people. That is the very definition of extremism and yet you defend this model and consider yourself to be middle of the road..

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    Favourite Wally Mooney
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    Jun 24th 2016, 10:03 AM

    A great British socialist Wally Kennedy sums up the Leave vote:

    “This was a vote against the Establishment and austerity.
    The political and Financial elites are ‘shocked’ at the result of the referendum. They would be of course – they are so disconnected from the daily struggles of the people; they just don’t get it.
    Despite the vicious campaigns to present and portray the working class as lumpen bigoted racists (a tiny number are) – all the fear-mongering whipped-up in the media has not had the desired effect of frightening them into submission.
    The threats of impending doom had little or no effect on those who have nothing to lose – including the growing numbers of the middle class who have been driven into the ranks of the workers – and who have had enough of becoming even more insecure and impoverished, while the rich elites got even richer, greedier, more arrogant, unaccountable and detached.
    People have had enough of insecurity, grinding austerity, poverty, cutbacks and lack of public services. They are fed up of debt, of high rents, poor housing, low-pay and zero-hour contracts. (Sometimes those fears and anger have been expressed in backward terms and using racist language).
    They are fed up of being judged and vilified by those who live in relative comfort and who look down their noses and sneer with such contempt. For them hardship is another planet.
    They are fed up of being used as voting fodder by a Labour Party, who for decades have turned their back on basic Labour values of common ownership, accountability and community.
    The process was encapsulated by Blair’s arrogant response when asked about his abandonment of his working class base support – “Who else are they going to vote for?”.
    Well in May 2015 … 4 million voted for UKIP – but 23.3 million did not vote for anyone … a figure greater than the Tory and Labour vote combined.
    I urge every worker to join a Trade Union and organise and hope that Jeremy Corbyn will now correct his mistaken strategy on the referendum and campaign and demand a General Election.
    They must stand on a clear and bold anti-austerity, democratic Public ownership and pro-working class platform.
    I believe that this process will be repeated right across Europe.
    There are dangers if we don’t act decisively – but what a landslide there could be.
    Up the workers – organise everywhere for socialism.”

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    Favourite Ziggy722
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    Jun 24th 2016, 10:05 AM

    Trump to Britain to leave and they listened. One cannot over emphasise enough his influence in their vote. The Brits love Trump but you never get to hear or read it in the MSM.

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    Favourite brian
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    Jun 24th 2016, 10:10 AM

    Freedom from what

    1
    Favourite brian
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    Jun 24th 2016, 10:12 AM

    Not very pc Tom but possibly too true

    1
    Favourite Old Gabby Johnson
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    Jun 24th 2016, 10:13 AM

    Wally – what is it im defending? What model – you think i want those people to have more money than my neighbours to see homelessness etc etc what i am saying is that the EU was setup for peaceful purposes and that dark forces with easy answers are about to destroy it by selfish interest. Now how do you tally the fact that your side (brexit) has the far right racists as its bedfellows? what is your shared platform.. how can you both be right~?

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    Favourite John R
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    Jun 24th 2016, 10:16 AM

    LITTLEONE I hope you’re right but the social and economic dislocation will cause serious problems. I hop it’s all worth it.

    2
    Favourite Wally Mooney
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    Jun 24th 2016, 10:30 AM

    Gabby,

    Please answer the question. Can you explain how the socialist position below is extremist?

    “We have the resources to provide everyone with a decent home, healthcare, education and a job. It is an ideological choice not to do so”

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    Favourite Old Gabby Johnson
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    Jun 24th 2016, 10:39 AM

    Wally – that position is extremely reasonable and one i agree with. The extremism is that leaving the community of the EU is about self interest and pull the ladder up jack policies. The reason the EU was setup was to avoid the extremism on both sides… policy shift as you suggest is essential – but all this does is commence a breakup of the EU- not for reasons that your stating but all the far-right parties who were once dormant are rising again…

    So how is it your party and the far-right racists are on the same platform?

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    Favourite Wally Mooney
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    Jun 24th 2016, 10:41 AM

    Gabby,

    I’m getting tired of explaining this to you. There is no common platform between socialists and the far right. The E.U. is pro capital and anti working class to its very DNA and that is why we campaigned for a Leave vote, not on the basis of Farage’s and the far right’s jingoistic and racist bile. The Socialist position is explained below:

    “This is because it’s not membership of the EU that is decisive in tackling the growth of Ukip or its politics. In fact the racist policies of the EU – which continues to brutally deport thousands of refugees from Greece to Turkey – are contributing to gains for the right across Europe.
    The ground for Ukip to grow is provided not by Brexit but by vicious austerity, repulsion with the political establishment and a deep desire for working class people to take control of their own lives and have the chance of a different type of society.
    Ukip doesn’t represent this alternative – it is yet another party of big business whose politicians vote for cuts to jobs and services just like the other capitalist parties. But its rhetoric is designed to appeal to a layer of working class people looking for something different.
    Polls have consistently shown Ukip voters are more likely than average to support nationalisation of the railways and utility companies and other pro-worker policies. Ukip recognises this base of support. In the recent Welsh elections, where Ukip won seven assembly members, they hardly spoke about immigration at all, instead using slogans like ‘save our steel’ and ‘save our NHS’.
    The way to combat this support is therefore to build an alternative capable of actually achieving this kind of policy and answering the fears of working class people about how best to defend their jobs and services. This requires building a strong, united movement against austerity – which could cut across racial division and bring about real change to ordinary people’s lives.

    http://www.socialistparty.org.uk/articles/22880/25-05-2016/eu-referendum-can-bring-the-tories-down

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    Favourite Old Gabby Johnson
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    Jun 24th 2016, 10:42 AM

    BTW Wally are you delighted for the working class of England – that once the UK breaks up they’ll have a government of UKIP and the Tories?

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    Favourite ross mcgee
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    Jun 24th 2016, 10:42 AM

    It’s socialism to DO so. I share enough of my hard earned salary in taxes. I came from working class, I worked whilst studying. I worked hard to get where I am. Get up off your own backsides and do the same. Hand up not a hand out.

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    Favourite Old Gabby Johnson
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    Jun 24th 2016, 10:44 AM

    @Wally – its bemusing that throughout history both the fascists and the far left have found themselves voting for the same thing with different motives – but the outcome remains the same.

    7
    Favourite Wally Mooney
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    Jun 24th 2016, 10:55 AM

    Gabby,
    Of course rejection of the E.U. is not enough in itself. The British working class will also have to fight their domestic capitalist class (including the Tories, UKIP, The Lib Dems and much of the Labour party) which exploits them and drives ever greater numbers into poverty to enrich the elite.

    2
    Favourite Titus Groan
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    Jun 24th 2016, 11:00 AM

    Gabby that is spot on. 2 types of people voted for this: far left who hate Europe for being capitalist and blah blah and far right who hate the immigrants and capitalism in a round about way they don’t understand.

    6
    Favourite Wally Mooney
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    Jun 24th 2016, 11:09 AM

    Blah blah? Is it not veritably true that in the past number of years there has been E.U. led de facto coups in Greece and Italy? And is it not correct to say that the E.U. has economically subjugated the Irish, Spanish and Portuguese working classes (with the collusion of our own governments) to pay for the failure of speculative finance capital?

    The E.U can’t be reformed to meet the needs of the majority. It’s time follow Britain’s lead and hold a referendum here on exiting the E.U. trap.

    http://www.socialistparty.org.uk/articles/22880/25-05-2016/eu-referendum-can-bring-the-tories-down

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    Favourite Titus Groan
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    Jun 24th 2016, 11:26 AM

    EU, not EU, you have a fundamental problem with capitalism, Wally. It doesn’t matter what the body is, you will always have a problem with it. And that’s your opinion, that is fine, but as I’ve said numerous times on here; I am a scientist. I and every other research scientist like me depend on funds predominantly from the EU. Science is crucial for an economy to prosper and vital for medicine to continue. I am a scientist and a patient who needs research in to their disease so to be honest, fck this sh!t. The markets are in the toilet and it would be great if the Leavers could appreciate how bad the situation is but they probably don’t understand. People are so great…

    5
    Favourite AlanH -AFC
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    Jun 24th 2016, 11:26 AM

    Freedom ,independence and democracy will not stop the exit of UK investment on ireland or the tourism sector losing billions because of this.

    2
    Favourite Wally Mooney
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    Jun 24th 2016, 11:51 AM

    Titus,
    As a scientist you should be asking why your research is dependent on E.U. funding? In contrast, the British state can always afford to fund its scientific research once the scientists themselves are available and will work for sterling and the equipment etc is available for purchase in the domestic currency
    Money is a tool of the state which is used to measure and allocate real resources (e.g. scientific minds). Ireland handed that power to the ECB.

    5
    Favourite Titus Groan
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    Jun 24th 2016, 12:09 PM

    No, science is dependent on the EU. It’s like anything else: we’re dependent for cross-talk, collaborations, utilization of equipment (what are we going to do, just casually build our own hadron collider?) Even with this vote the UK will still have to buy in to the EU science program, in a manner similar to Switzerland. The difference is now we won’t get a real say in what happens as a whole. Britain CAN’t afford this. We are number one in the world for science now and that is DEFINITELY going to change. We all know it and Stephen Hawking articulated the concern. But what do working classes care about science and innovation? Nothing. We’re just the boffins, after all.

    7
    Favourite Wally Mooney
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    Jun 24th 2016, 12:44 PM

    Titus,
    You specifically mentioned scientific funding and I’ve addressed that in my comment.
    Switzerland isn’t in the E.U. and did “casually” build their own hadron collider. Scientific collaboration won’t stop because Britain isn’t in the E.U. and Britain can afford to buy anything which is for sale within sterling as explained above.

    3
    Favourite Pat Aherne
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    Jun 24th 2016, 12:50 PM

    well said

    1
    Favourite Titus Groan
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    Jun 24th 2016, 1:31 PM

    Switzerland are signed up to the EU science programme, Wally. Which the UK will have to resign up to. This comes with the promise that you will allow movement hence rendering immigration irrelevent again. Cern are based in Switzerland, they are European and not Swiss so that’s BS

    6
    Favourite Rob Kavanagh
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    Jun 24th 2016, 1:50 PM

    @Titus

    Come on… thats entirely disingenuous.

    Brexiteers never suggested there would NOT be any market volatility.

    Their claims of “scaremongering” related to the negative outlook painted by the EU against the longer term economic view and relationship with the Union.

    Lets be honest, it was a dirty campaign by both sides. Unfortunately however the EU seriously misjudged the British psyche and chose not to focus on selling the benefits of remain, but instead used bullying and threatening rhetoric – this definitely backfired.

    Only time will tell whether or not the EU/Remain warnings on Brexit were correctly forecasted, or can be dismissed as “propaganda” .

    3
    Favourite Titus Groan
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    Jun 24th 2016, 2:04 PM

    Sorry, what’s disingenuous? The “scaremongering” was entirely factual… We are experiencing it now.

    5