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Comment #4482470 by Beachmaster

Beachmaster Nov 24th 2015, 10:10 AM #

It’s a pity Turkey weren’t/ aren’t as vigilant in dealing with ISIS crossing their border.

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Putin: Downing of Russian jet by Turkey a "stab in the back"

Putin: Downing of Russian jet by Turkey a "stab in the back"

Video footage of the incident showed a warplane crashing onto a hill and two crew members apparently parachuting safely.

REPLIES

    Favourite Robin Hilliard
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    Nov 24th 2015, 9:05 AM

    Putin needs war to keep the sense of nationalist hysteria alive and well in Russia, so that he can remain in power.

    Let us hope that his continuous, high-stakes games-playing doesn’t force somebody’s hand so far that he gets it.

    291
    Favourite Gearóid Ó Murchú
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    Nov 24th 2015, 9:11 AM

    And Erdoğan doesn’t?? I’d say Turkey and Saudi were getting a bit worried about the US and France cooperating with Russia.

    853
    Favourite Nigel Tuffnel
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    Nov 24th 2015, 9:13 AM

    What are you on about Robin? the last thing Russia needs is all out war. I’d worry more about the US than Russia.

    522
    Favourite Robin Hilliard
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    Nov 24th 2015, 9:19 AM

    Nigel, please read what I said – you’re correct to say that the last thing Russia needs is war. However, Putin does need it – for without a credible external threat, triggering a posturing ‘strongman’ response, his regime is so detached from reality that it is likely to collapse like a house of cards.

    218
    Favourite VoiceOfVanguard
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    Nov 24th 2015, 9:24 AM

    The worry here is Russia’s response, and the Turkish Prime Minister saying he will “start initiatives” within NATO.

    362
    Favourite Nigel Tuffnel
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    Nov 24th 2015, 9:24 AM

    He doesn’t need it to sway the public, the majority in Russia approve of him. He doesn’t need to go down that road, we’re not talking about Russia being on the verge of a revolution are we? No.

    336
    Favourite VoiceOfVanguard
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    Nov 24th 2015, 9:32 AM

    The migrant crisis just got a whole lot worse.

    225
    Favourite John Judd
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    Nov 24th 2015, 9:33 AM

    Trying to provoke everyone into a war how many times has Russia flown close to UK airspace ? We all have to share this F***ing planet cant we all just get along ?

    410
    Favourite Beachmaster
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    Nov 24th 2015, 10:10 AM

    It’s a pity Turkey weren’t/ aren’t as vigilant in dealing with ISIS crossing their border.

    1176
    Favourite littleone
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    Nov 24th 2015, 10:22 AM

    Is this what Turkey and NATO are all about. Shooting down warplanes fighting terrorists. Even if this plane ventured into turkisk airspace. Are Turkey incapable of saying , hey lads you ventured into our airspace, can you leave immediately.

    438
    Favourite Jason Culligan
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    Nov 24th 2015, 10:25 AM

    They did littleone, multiple times in fact. The Russians received numerous warnings and were warned that Turkey would respond forcefully to the next incursion. The pilot involved was also warned a number of times and refused to head the warnings.

    180
    Favourite Gerard Casserly
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    Nov 24th 2015, 10:26 AM

    Read the article first. Then comment.

    187
    Favourite Chris Kirk
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    Nov 24th 2015, 10:46 AM

    They tried that already littleone, think back to how the Russians got involved in Ukraine and tell us how the arrogant Russians behave.

    111
    Favourite Neil Browne
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    Nov 24th 2015, 10:46 AM

    Robin I cannot understand so many red comments, for a perfectly logical comment. Russian subs and warplanes have being violating other countries air space and territorial waters blatantly (this includes our own) over the last year or two. I suppose the issue here is that Turkey is not exactly the most stable country at the moment with their own leader, who is extremely nationalistic and on the verge of dictatorship.

    169
    Favourite Paul Roche
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    Nov 24th 2015, 10:50 AM

    And yet we hear nothing about NATO incursions into Russian territories.
    I guess you need to pretend they don’t happen?

    273
    Favourite Jason Culligan
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    Nov 24th 2015, 10:51 AM

    Neil, when it comes to geopolitical news the comments section here is distinctly pro-Russian. Anyone who even dares to criticise Putin or Russia is not welcome here.

    112
    Favourite Paul Roche
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    Nov 24th 2015, 10:56 AM

    That’s one point of view Jason.
    Another might be that TheJournal readers are not as inclined to believe everything the coalition military have to say.
    WMD and the NSA make me distrust what is apparently a propaganda war on terror.

    300
    Favourite Joachin Peiper
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    Nov 24th 2015, 11:17 AM

    If the turkish allied “moderate militants” who it seems captured the aircrew…if they survived…treat them as they usually treat prisoners……then Russian revenge will be forthcoming…everyone remembers AlKasasbeh…

    132
    Favourite Joachin Peiper
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    Nov 24th 2015, 11:18 AM

    Not true Jason.

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    Favourite Neil Browne
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    Nov 24th 2015, 11:21 AM

    Jason/Paul It is true the first causality of war is truth. However in the last 2-3 years Russia has become increasingly aggressive at a time when it economy is in a depression, Russia depends on commodities to generate its economy which has tanked especially over the last 2 years. Russian as country has become a lot more aggressive and reclusive outside of military expansion. We can see this in politics, economics, and sport. While Russian has a huge economy it is dependent on resources, name me a Russian car or IT company that produces devices or software in our shops, or be it any basic or essential consumer good. It worries me that Russia has gone into its shell baring military expansion. It is becoming insular like it was in the cold war and is run by a dictator in a country that is by nature very xenophobic, this makes it very dangerous.

    93
    Favourite Chris Kirk
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    Nov 24th 2015, 11:22 AM

    The same as Russians treated Ukraine prisoners I expect Joachin

    48
    Favourite Sertorius
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    Nov 24th 2015, 11:24 AM

    The Greeks should take similar measures the next time Turkey violates it’s airspace, which is a common occurrence. The Turkish regime is a rancid supporter of Sunni Islamic terror and should be ejected from the Nato alliance.

    328
    Favourite Bill
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    Nov 24th 2015, 11:34 AM

    Jason Culligan the news broke only a few hours ago and you have all the facts you are a truly remarkable man
    By the way are you the same Jason who forcibly argued that tail strike damage in 2001 brought down the Russian Metrojet over Sinai a few weeks back and that Sadamm Hussian possessed WMD back in 2003

    172
    Favourite Joachin Peiper
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    Nov 24th 2015, 11:37 AM

    Chris…I don’t believe the Russians caged Ukrainian prisoners before incinerating them while filming the atrocity from numerous angles…..but if you say so..

    144
    Favourite Jason Culligan
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    Nov 24th 2015, 11:41 AM

    Nice attempts at misrepresenting me Bill but unfortunately you fall short.

    Regarding the Metrojet aircraft, I argued that it could have been a reason for the aircraft coming down but I never said that this was the case. I clearly stated multiple times that mechanical fault (which I said *LIKELY* could have been caused by a botched repair job following a tail strike) or a bomb onboard could be the reasons but that a shoot-down scenario like many were claiming was virtually impossible.

    When it comes to Saddam, I have never said that he possessed WMD’s. The only thing I have ever said is that he didn’t help by his boisterous comments in the media or by refusing access to sites by UN inspectors.

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    Favourite thejynxeffect
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    Nov 24th 2015, 12:03 PM

    Don’d mind Jason lads, he loves having hundreds of American military bases all over the world while at the same time blaming Russia for being aggressive. He is truly in denial

    175
    Favourite Bill
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    Nov 24th 2015, 12:12 PM

    Jason your take on world events are often so outlandish I sometimes wonder do you get what is happening in the world from reading tea leaves

    116
    Favourite Eddie Nugent
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    Nov 24th 2015, 12:17 PM

    gearoid a very good point

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    Favourite Freebetcitydcom Mike
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    Nov 24th 2015, 12:27 PM

    Oh look. That brainwashed clown Robin Hilliard is talking garbage again.

    72
    Favourite Oleksandr Savitskyy
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    Nov 24th 2015, 12:27 PM

    BTW. Does anyone know what type of hardware and software is used in the “mighty” Putin’s Army? Here http://www.pocketgpsworld.com/Garmin-GPSMap-Spotted-in-Russian-Attack-Jet-2849.php Yes, yes. It is GARMIN fixed with the rubber band. Russians do not have own navigation system. GLONASS is a failure. No wonder he flew into Turkish airspace. The pilot probably even did not realized that.

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    Favourite David
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    Nov 24th 2015, 12:31 PM

    Russian planes never violated Irish airspace!

    43
    Favourite Derek Durkin
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    Nov 24th 2015, 12:55 PM

    Turkey has invested a lot of money into ISIS and Russia is basically fcuking that up so it’s no surprise that this has happened.

    169
    Favourite Chris Kirk
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    Nov 24th 2015, 12:58 PM

    Joachin, are you saying that the Turks incinerate their prisoners or are you confusing them with ISIL.

    20
    Favourite Joachin Peiper
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    Nov 24th 2015, 1:14 PM

    Chris..NO confusion..re-read my original post – “allied”..

    47
    Favourite M Bowe
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    Nov 24th 2015, 1:19 PM

    Russia are attacking Isis, only when they highlighted the oil truck convoys earning Isis €50 million per month did US target these convoys.. Even issuing a pre strike warning.. Kurdish YPJ fighters are battling Isis on the ground having killed over 7000 Isis fighters, got back 15 cities and 1000s of villages from Isis. Yet NATO Member Turkey are attacking both Russian and Kurdish forces.. What the hell is really going on here????

    192
    Favourite Craig Barry
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    Nov 24th 2015, 1:20 PM

    Well said Beachmaster

    18
    Favourite Vote Left Ireland
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    Nov 24th 2015, 1:25 PM

    Russia must stop bombing only those who threaten assad. Assad must stop using chemical warfare on his own people. America must stop using drone strikes with only a 10% accuracy rate which leads to the 90% civilian casualty rate which in turn creates more terrorists. Turkey needs to stop their trade with Isis which is the main route keeping Isis afloat. Turkey must also stop bombing kurds who are the main force against Isis on the turkish side. Saudi Arabia and other gulf states must take their fair share of refugees and stop their clerics supporting Isis. No good or bad in all this just a gigantic mess & a big lesson for western foreign policy

    61
    Favourite Sertorius
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    Nov 24th 2015, 1:35 PM

    Perhaps you can provide hard eveidence that Assad engaged in chemical warfare, because I have yet to see any?

    118
    Favourite gregory
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    Nov 24th 2015, 1:48 PM

    If US planes were bombing isis would turkey shoot them down? Turkey wouldnt do this w/o Nato back. Their s**tless now and have run to nato. Bad move.

    113
    Favourite Larissa Caroline Nikolaus
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    Nov 24th 2015, 1:49 PM

    Vote left,

    I think you just summed it up, the problem is that the Turks are fearing the Kurdish fighters against DAESH may want to have their own Kurdish state once the fight is over, so I can’t really see a solution for this whole clusterf*ck, it’s intrinsically messed up on all sides

    64
    Favourite thejynxeffect
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    Nov 24th 2015, 1:51 PM

    Turkey has been the major buyer of ISIS oil. Turkey is not fighting ISIS, they are arming them. The US has to pretend like its fighting ISIS but they’re really not. Russia dropped more bombs on ISIS in a week than the US did in over a year. It’s quite obvious what’s happening. Our leaders in the western world have encircled Russia and moved NATO closer to their borders. Russia is then forced to respond to the threat at its border and protect it’s interests.

    Now i’m no Putin fan, but he is clearly on the defensive. Global forces are pulling against him to create a New World Order and will butcher and kill indiscriminately to achieve this aim.

    147
    Favourite thejynxeffect
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    Nov 24th 2015, 1:53 PM

    Assad never used chemical weapons on his own people. Turns out that was the Saudi’s putting these weapons in the hands of ISIS in order to blame Assad and justify a western invasion. Everyone saw through it and the invasion never happened.

    114
    Favourite Joachin Peiper
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    Nov 24th 2015, 1:54 PM

    M…it’s as though Turkey are flying top cover for DAESH…its all adding up…

    58
    Favourite Martin Gallagher
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    Nov 24th 2015, 1:54 PM

    Neil, a genuine question here but are you for real? Russian economy forced into recession by US sanctions and it’s Saudi muppet oil price crash. Name me one US tech giant that isin’t exploiting our tax haven rules here along with their threats of industrial bullying? Please stop with your corporate US cheerleading and anti Russian bashing, most people have seen through that propaganda nonsense already.

    101
    Favourite Joachin Peiper
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    Nov 24th 2015, 1:56 PM

    Vote..would it help if DAESH held off with the mustard gas?

    31
    Favourite Adrian Mc Hugh
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    Nov 24th 2015, 2:11 PM

    Russia been blowing up Turkey’s cheep oil supply,they hit 100+ tankers other day didn’t they

    80
    Favourite John Sheehy
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    Nov 24th 2015, 2:37 PM

    lol please do enlighten us.

    10
    Favourite John Sheehy
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    Nov 24th 2015, 2:43 PM

    Seriously?
    Chechnya declared independence and was bombed into the stone age by Russia.
    Chechnya is now a brutal dictatorship. Agreed there were terrorist atrocities but it was hardly a one way street. same with the aggression in Georgia, Moldova, Ukraine, for example the recent terrorist attack in Lviv, carried out by Russia’s FSB.

    Just as an FYI, many Russians do not like to be called European, they are Russian.
    This is important to know when trying to understand Russia.

    24
    Favourite Joachin Peiper
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    Nov 24th 2015, 2:44 PM

    John..timely reminder..Beslan.

    46
    Favourite John Sheehy
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    Nov 24th 2015, 2:45 PM

    US planes have permission to fly over Turkey, they have an airbase there.

    Turkey told Russia to stop bombing ethnic Turks and to stop invading its borders.
    Russia ignored and Turkey has responded appropriately.

    26
    Favourite Matty Reese
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    Nov 24th 2015, 2:48 PM

    Isis has no presence in this area

    16
    Favourite Vincent O Mahony
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    Nov 24th 2015, 2:54 PM

    Wait – why did Turkey need to shoot down the plane again? The threat it was posing to Turkey was… ? Who cares if it crossed their border, its not as if it was permanent or an invasion. The plane was sorting out the headhackers – I say fair play to them. Turkish cowards shoot down a plane that was doing good work on their headhacker buddies and then run to Nato for protection.. Pathetic.

    109
    Favourite Sean O'Riordan
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    Nov 24th 2015, 3:01 PM

    Yeah because the US never likes to be involved in war haha… I trust Putin more than Osama Obama any day….

    86
    Favourite Brendan Moran
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    Nov 24th 2015, 3:01 PM

    Absolutely their porous border has enabled 10s of thousands of disenfranchised Muslims and mercenaries to commit atrocities along its border.

    49
    Favourite Matty Reese
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    Nov 24th 2015, 3:02 PM

    joachin peiper, what an intereting name.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joachim_Peiper

    just sayin……

    21
    Favourite Helen Clarke
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    Nov 24th 2015, 3:05 PM

    Agree. Don’t think it suits Turkey and Saudi Arabia that Europe, US,Russia and China want rid of Daesh.

    53
    Favourite Get Lost Eircodes
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    Nov 24th 2015, 3:08 PM

    Ironic Russia getting upset about downed airliners/bombers!!!

    16
    Favourite Mike Hall
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    Nov 24th 2015, 3:08 PM

    Craig Murray’s blog shows the radar track of the Russian aircraft… (Craig Murray is a former UK Ambassador)

    https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2015/11/the-madness-of-war/

    “.. It briefly transited a tiny neck of Turkish land – less than two miles across where the Russian jet passed – twice. I calculate that each “incursion” over Turkish territory would have lasted about 10 seconds, assuming the plane was flying slowly at 600mph. That Turkey shot down the plane for this is madness, and absolutely indefensible. It is fairly obvious from the track that the plane was operating against Turkish sponsored Turkmen rebels inside Syria, and that is why the Turks shot it down… “

    81
    Favourite Beachmaster
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    Nov 24th 2015, 3:11 PM

    Let’s not forget Mary McAleese was a cheerleader for Turkey joining the EU.

    86
    Favourite Mike Hall
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    Nov 24th 2015, 3:15 PM

    Also highly relevant…

    http://www.almasdarnews.com/article/jabhat-al-nusra-issues-a-distress-call-to-turkey-as-the-syrian-army-advances-in-northern-latakia/

    So… the downing of this Russian plane has nothing to do with any ‘incursion’ on Turkish airspace, rather it is Turkey supporting Syrian rebel forces, including the Al Qaeda affiliate Al Nusra.

    And Turkey is a member of NATO doing this? Time Turkey was kicked out of NATO.

    76
    Favourite Cammac Daddy
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    Nov 24th 2015, 3:17 PM

    You may want to worry about Islam coming to Ireland to rape your women and cut off your Catholic Infidel head

    31
    Favourite John Joseph McDermott
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    Nov 24th 2015, 3:41 PM

    Ataturk would never had any truck with extremist muslims- Sunni or Shia.
    He almost succeeded in eliminating religion from his country’s politics, but it is creeping back again-unfortunately

    39
    Favourite Joachin Peiper
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    Nov 24th 2015, 3:46 PM

    Aaah Mary….celebrate their culture Mary…

    28
    Favourite Joachin Peiper
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    Nov 24th 2015, 3:48 PM

    Nice one Mike…

    16
    Favourite Rowe
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    Nov 24th 2015, 4:00 PM
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    Favourite Rowe
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    Nov 24th 2015, 4:04 PM
    6
    Favourite Mer Curial
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    Nov 24th 2015, 4:30 PM

    I bet you like to masturbate while watching reruns of Homeland.

    11
    Favourite Patrick J O'CONNOR
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    Nov 24th 2015, 4:48 PM

    @Vote Left Ireland. I think you are badly mistaken about attributing chemical attacks to Assad. All the recorded evidence points to Erdogan’s AKP party being behind that one. I wouldn’t trust thei Erdogan Muslim Brotherhood nut in anything. Turkey ought be evicted from NATO before they get us into a World War. Erdogan and his AKP party,who bombed the Kurds in order to drum up nationalist support for his faltering AKP party in November 1 elections are murderers and frauds of the highest order.

    —”Pulitzer-prize winning investigative reporter Seymour Hersh – who uncovered the Iraq prison torture scandal and the Mai Lai massacre in Vietnam – previously reported that high-level American sources tell him that the Turkish government carried out the chemical weapons attacks blamed on the Syrian government.—”
    —”Over 1,300 people were killed in the sarin gas attack in Ghouta and several other neighborhoods near the Syrian capital of Damascus, with the West quickly blaming the regime of Bashar al-Assad and Russia claiming it was a “false flag” operation aimed at making US military intervention in Syria possible.—”
    —”“Some In the Turkish Government … Believed they Could Get Assad’s Nuts In a Vice By Dabbling With a Sarin Attack Inside Syria”

    Two members of the Turkish parliament gave a press conference this week saying that they have wiretapped recordings and other evidence showing that Turkey supplied the sarin used in Syria. As reported by Turkey’s largest newspapers, Today’s Zaman:—”
    http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2015/10/2-turkish-parliament-members-turkey-provided-chemical-weapons-for-syrian-terrorist-attack.html

    54
    Favourite Eddie Nugent
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    Nov 24th 2015, 4:55 PM

    Gearoid very good point expect Russia to be the Kurds new best friend with Proxies wars kicking off all over the place , Kurds backed by Russia and perhaps Israel, who would like to see a stable non Muslim neighbour in the estate, and the Muslim in the Caucasus will escalate there campaigns closer to home, backed by Turkey and Saudi crew. it will take a chemical weapons or small nuke attack to kick of a proper fight in the school yard, but its coming

    17
    Favourite Anthony Kelly
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    Nov 24th 2015, 5:15 PM

    John Judd – a lot less times than NATO has flown close to Russian airspace!

    8
    Favourite Anthony Kelly
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    Nov 24th 2015, 5:37 PM

    Jason – you’re being economical with your description there. As a smart person I’m confident that you’ve had a substantial peek at Google Maps and therefore know that if an incursion did take place at the location specified by the Turkish Authorities then such an incursion can only have lasted about 6 seconds on the longest flight path shown. The pertinent question for those genuinely concerned would be to ask where were the Turkish planes when they fired their missiles? A quick check with some ‘military’ chums would quickly inform you that they were in Syrian Airspace? Who gave them permission to do this? The UN recognise no war between Turkey and Syria. There is no UN mandate allowing Turkey to do this? So now we have two dead pilots killed by a country claiming the right to defend its territory against a second country by incursion of a third?? So what happens now? The UN recognises Russia right to react? So maybe more dead pilots? What will NATO do? Are they going to allow Turkey to start WW3? I know I don’t want to go to war for a country that is in all probability arming ISIL. I know for a fact that I am no longer in favour of them becoming a member of the EU. What needs to happen is that Turkey are suspended from NATO until this threat is past. My feeling is that Russia will not react in haste but will do so after consideration. In the short term they will probably enforce a no fly zone on Turkey in Syria. Hopefully it will all pass off without much violence.

    30
    Favourite Anthony Kelly
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    Nov 24th 2015, 5:41 PM

    Neil Browne – please state examples of when Russia came into our territorial area, either land or sea or air. Russia have never violated our space. The only examples of violation of our national territory have been by Britain and the US. All documented and some even apologised for.

    28
    Favourite Anthony Kelly
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    Nov 24th 2015, 5:50 PM

    Actually Jason you are being economical again here – most unlike you I would have thought? I personally don’t mind which pro side anyone is on! What I can’t stomach is people using arguments for or against one side only! If something is good for the goose then it’s good for the gander too. For instance I thought poorly of people who complained about alleged Russian involvement in the MH-17 atrocity whilst being unable or unwilling to see the similarity with the shooting down of the Iranian passenger plane by the US. It took the US a decade to admit to this so maybe it will take Russia the same length of time. Not a credible position to condemn one and not the other. The same goes for Ukraine and Syria. Both have UN recognised governments so if a rebel is evil in one then he’s evil in the other. It’s the selectivity when it comes to the truth that I object to.

    17
    Favourite Anthony Kelly
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    Nov 24th 2015, 5:57 PM

    John Sheedy – lot of children killed at Beslan. But that’s fine with you as they were only evil little Russians? Lol that! To be honest I think it’s time for me to delete the journal.ie app. When someone can lol the Beslan massacre then I’m obviously out of touch. Good luck to you all.

    24
    Favourite The Dude
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    Nov 24th 2015, 6:01 PM

    Jet shoot down – What we are not being told.
    http://youtu.be/JxTVwHXGfvI

    6
    Favourite The Dude
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    Nov 24th 2015, 6:05 PM
    3
    Favourite The Dude
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    Nov 24th 2015, 6:07 PM

    @Matty – you made me laugh when I checked that wiki link. Well done.

    9
    Favourite The Dude
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    Nov 24th 2015, 6:09 PM

    @cammic – it’s is already here to the tune of at least 50,000.

    4
    Favourite Eamon Mac Gowan
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    Nov 24th 2015, 7:05 PM

    @Robin Hilliard,
    Too many G&Ts down at the yacht club?
    Must be affecting your brain.

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    Favourite Martin Gallagher
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    Nov 24th 2015, 7:46 PM

    Patrick, much and all as I sometimes find myself in disagreement with you on some issues such as all Muslims being potential terrorists, I have to applaud your courage in pointing out the issue over the chemical weapon attack in Syria. (Not all Muslims are salafist fanatics, I think?).
    To be frank, the story sucked from the first place on the eve of arrival of the UN chemical weapons experts. The cynic inside me made me think of a CIA/NSA ploy to discredit al-assad, while playing their own, now widely discredited game of misinformation?

    13
    Favourite joey Reilly
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    Nov 24th 2015, 8:54 PM

    Isis sells oil to Turkey, Russia bombs Isis. Tell me again how this is Russia’s fault

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    Favourite Patrick J O'CONNOR
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    Nov 24th 2015, 8:55 PM

    @Martin Gallagher…..You should say all devout Muslims or Islamists are potential terrorists as I’m very much aware that a lot of Muslims prefer not to support the hardliners- like Morsi and Erdogan and not a few would like to ditch Islam altogether if ’twere not for the Apostasy laws of ‘Death to Apostates’.
    This situation was mirrored in Turkey before the last election when voters were getting sicker and sicker of Erdogan’s megalomaniac Islamist ambitions. Opinion polls showed this and Erdogan went to work on the ultra nationalist Islamists and fears of ordinary Turks by suicide-bombing the Kurds twice to create fear. This was classic Islamic terror used effectively and Erdogan’s AKP party soured to victory.
    in other words Turkey is ruled by an Illigitmate Govt. headed by a self-proclaimed Muslim Brotherhood Islamic terrorist Erdogan. As such the West and NATO ought be ultra cautious about what this terrorist Govt of Turkey may be trying to lead us into. As an Islamist Erdogan has no love for anything but Islam and will delightedly play infidel Russia off against the infidels US and NATO.
    —”’Gezici Research, found that 58.6% of Turks believe that Davutoglu’s government did not take necessary pre-emptive security measures at the site of a peace rally where IS jihadists killed over 100 people and injured hundreds of others. Some of the polled were more direct: More than 20% said the AKP and Erdogan were behind the attack.
    http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/6787/turkey-elections

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    Favourite Robert Bennett
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    Nov 24th 2015, 9:11 PM

    That is unfair comment about Russia and by extension the former Soviet Union. The infant SU was attacked by 14 capitalist countries who tried to kill it at birth. The result was the desperation which led to dictatorial rule by Joseph Stalin. During the 1920′s no capitalist country would trade with the SU. Yet it survived and was the biggest factor in defeating Nazism. After WW2 the US/NATO surrounded the SU and again did everything possible to destroy its economy. On July 3rd. 1979 US President Carter ordered that advanced weapons be supplied to anti government religious fundamentalists n Afghanistan (we are still suffering the result). The SU got involved in supporting the Afghan government and basically lost that war. That, plus internal stagnation plus the strain of military spending for to protect itself fro US/NATO broke its economy. The successor state recovered before it could be fully surrounded and was able to react in Georgia. In Ukraine,US/NATO backed a coup against an elected but corrupt government and is presently arming that country and backing a civil war in the south east. The US/NATO sanctions are helping to make it worthwhile for to produce previously imported goods in Russia and their cash reserves should ride out the US instigated and Saudi financed lowering of the price of oil.

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    Favourite gregory
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    Nov 24th 2015, 9:15 PM

    A certain irish company employs a bunch of turks in russia (cheaper than irish)- watch those visas get cancelled.

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    Favourite Avina Laaf
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    Nov 24th 2015, 9:15 PM

    “Assad never used chemical weapons on his own people. Turns out that was the Saudi’s putting these weapons in the hands of ISIS in order to blame Assad and justify a western invasion.”
    Amazing how someone can try and pass this off as fact.

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    Favourite Stephen O'Sullivan
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    Nov 24th 2015, 9:16 PM

    @Joey. The point is Russia is not really attacking ISIS, it’s main goal is concentrating on helping Assad battle against rebels like the ones the Turks support and were under attack today by the Russian bombers Take a look where the incident happened and take a look where ISIS actually is in Syria
    http://syria.liveuamap.com

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    Favourite The Dude
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    Nov 24th 2015, 9:27 PM

    @Robert Bennett – Are you defending the most murderous regime in history? I am referring to the Soviet Union and the Bolsheviks.

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    Favourite Joachin Peiper
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    Nov 24th 2015, 10:28 PM

    Robert..good read.

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    Favourite Mike Hall
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    Nov 24th 2015, 10:54 PM

    Stephen O’Sullivan

    ISIS is very firmly on the list for Russia, but what you fail to understand is that the plan requires Assad’s forces to have full control of their base territory and lines of supply first, before they can launch the mass ground attack that will be needed to oust ISIS.

    That means working eastward but also securing Russia’s coastal and nearby air base. As a condition for Russian air support, Assad and any (sparse) help from Hezbollah/Iran, are obliged to provide all ground forces and security.

    Syria has only a small army relative to geographic area. (Ergo, present stalemate.) It will take and a certain sequence for the ground to be won – and every inch of ground will need taking to ‘defeat’ ISIS.

    But regardless, don’t swallow the guff that some ‘moderate’ force exists among Assad’s opposition. The two largest and best equipped, by far, groups are ISIS and Al Nusra affiliates. (Both Al Qaeda) They are the dominant forces in every region.

    The idea that some force of moderates exists, or in sufficient numbers to offer some democraticallly legitimate opposition or transition Government to Assad is purely a Western elites’ fictional invention.

    We still see ISIS occupying most of Iraq outside Baghdad after a yr or of US and allied air support and special forces. If Assad falls, is it even remotely credible that any other trhan ISIS will hold power in Syria?

    Sure, the West can just carry on with a perpetual war that reduces Syria to rubble, as it has Iraq and Libya, with Yemen under way now. And all depopulated. Doubtless such scorched earth policy suits Israel’s interests, for example, quietly now annexing the oil rich Golan Heights – officially still part Syria (by the UN).

    But that is a totally Psychopathic policy, condemning yet more millions of civilians to death or mass exodus.

    Unfortunately that seems to be the reality that is unfolding before our eyes.

    However, should we really be surprised? The exact same elites, power dynasties, Capital class etc still run the world despite some veil of ‘democracy’ hiding them from common view. Are they really any different from those who caused the mass slaughter in wars all over the planet, in every generation somewhere? I doubt it. No great conspiracy of intent to murder is required – indifference is all that’s needed. Well… the developed countries’ elites already display 100% indifference toward the rest of the world’s ordinary citizens. In their eyes, all outside their class are same invisible people.

    19
    Favourite Robert Bennett
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    Nov 24th 2015, 10:57 PM

    I am not, but I put forward a historical perspective. How much slavery, how much murder, how many dozens of destroyed nations did it take to industralise the USA, Britain, France etc? Up to 6 million people killed in the Congo by little Belgium. The tribal leadership of Java committed ritual suicide because of the atrocities committed by little liberal Holland in Indonesia. Up to 20 million people were kidnapped from Africa so as to make the US a major exporter of cotton. Britain raped the resources of India. How many people did Britain kill in India? The capitalist countries industralised over 150 years, the Soviet Union did it in 30 years and without colonies. Not a pretty picture in either case……………..

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    Favourite Ned O Mahony
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    Nov 24th 2015, 11:18 PM

    According to RT News International
    They shot them as they were parachuting

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    Favourite Feilim Mac Críosta
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    Nov 24th 2015, 11:34 PM

    Money in war people lets understand it!

    3
    Favourite The Dude
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    Nov 24th 2015, 11:48 PM

    @Robert Bennett – actually African slaves were kidnapped and sold by Islamic slave traders primarily .

    The soviet holocaust.
    http://youtu.be/qhfkMv2iuME

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    Favourite Stephen O'Sullivan
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    Nov 24th 2015, 11:49 PM

    Mike Hall

    Russia is clearly using the excuse of defeating ISIS however its real intention is nothing more than an attempt to prop up Al-Assad, a dynastic dictatorship where civil rights don’t exist and any dissenting opinion is brutally suppressed. North Korean style elections with +90% support I am not sure how you can seriously believe that there is no legitimate opposition to Assad’s rule.
    http://en.rsf.org/spip.php?page=predateur&id_article=42411

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    Favourite Enda Kenny
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    Nov 25th 2015, 12:15 AM

    America want the gas in Syria

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    Favourite Enda Kenny
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    Nov 25th 2015, 12:17 AM

    @ Matty Reese

    there were no WMD in Iraq

    bin laden died before 2011

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    Favourite Mike Hall
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    Nov 25th 2015, 12:39 AM

    Stephen, you’ve understood nothing I wrote.

    Political opposition is one thing (and that has not been identified to us as yet), but a force capable of securing the country in a transition from a vicious civil war is quite another.

    Destroying the force capable of that in both Iraq and Libya is the reason those countries remain in factional chaos.

    In Syria, there are two forces capable of securing the country – Assad or ISIS/Al Nusra. Which would you prefer?

    Assad and his Alawite Shias has the security personnel and infrastructure of a state – nobody else does except ISIS.

    Or are you steadfastly delusional enough to imagine the magical establishment of a peaceful fully functional ‘western’ democracy can happen any time soon?

    Where Western allies utterly failed in Afghanistan, Iraq and Libya. As they have failed in every country they’ve invaded since WWII.

    Russia’s interests are persued thru’ political stability. In case you hadn’t noticed, US, Saudi, Israeli etc foreign policy interests are being persued by conflict and chaos. That is the crucial difference.

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    Favourite Mer Curial
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    Nov 25th 2015, 12:41 AM

    Bill, I think Jason read too many Tom Clancy novels in his youth.
    I’m willing to bet he masturbates while watching reruns of Homeland :)

    4
    Favourite Joachin Peiper
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    Nov 25th 2015, 12:54 AM

    Excellent mike.

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    Favourite Joachin Peiper
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    Nov 25th 2015, 12:56 AM

    And then bragged about it…and were filmed doing so..

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    Favourite Joachin Peiper
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    Nov 25th 2015, 12:59 AM

    Mike..perfect.

    3
    Favourite Mr T
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    Nov 25th 2015, 2:45 AM

    Except you of course Jason :-)

    1
    Favourite Stephen O'Sullivan
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    Nov 25th 2015, 7:12 AM

    Mike Hall.. you’re as delusional as your lickar$e troll friend with the Nazi moniker, Jochen Pieper. The al-Assad Family dynasty has been in power in Syria since 1971, no free elections, suspension of Civil liberties and total suppression of any opposition. You’re only argument is based on keeping him in power because he’s the best of a bad lot and happens to be Russia’s only friend in the region.
    Admit it, Russia is doing nothing more than what America does at RealPolitik and acting in its own direct interest. Except so far the US are in effect beating the Russians. No sanctions against the US and the Rouble is n the toilet……Easy question for you…why are so many former Soviet and Eastern Bloc nations aligning themselves with the West?

    6
    Favourite Jindrich Marz
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    Nov 25th 2015, 8:01 AM

    Jason the Russian plane was in Turkish airspace for 17 seconds. How many times did they warn them before shooting them down over a territory of neighboring country? The plane was shot in Syria, after 17 seconds incursion in a place which creates Turkish isthmus into Syria.

    3
    Favourite Anton Friendo
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    Nov 25th 2015, 8:07 AM
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    Favourite Miles Kennedy
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    Nov 25th 2015, 8:41 AM

    Time to wake up! Turkey are bombing America’s allies the Kurds, now they have shot down a Russian fighter that was targeting Islamic forces inside Syria. Turkey is fighting on the side of Islamic extremism. Keep Turkey out of EU, kick Turkey out of NATO!

    5
    Favourite Ciaran Cosgrave
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    Nov 25th 2015, 1:03 PM

    Oh so it’s Putin who is looking for a war!!!! You are deluded.

    1
    Favourite Ciaran Cosgrave
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    Nov 25th 2015, 1:06 PM

    Syria is a stepping stone to an invasion of Iran.

    3
    Favourite captain ireland
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    Nov 25th 2015, 3:54 PM

    Yeah Jason all them warnings in a matter of seconds , it doesn’t add up , please take your NATO goggles off

    2
    Favourite captain ireland
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    Nov 25th 2015, 3:57 PM

    NATO and US bases right along Russian border , now that’s what I call unprovoked aggression, as an Irish citizen I will not support a war on fellow Christians, in fact I will support Russia who are leading the fight against daesh

    3
    Favourite captain ireland
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    Nov 25th 2015, 4:01 PM

    @jason is laughable , Turkey has said it was a matter of seconds jet flew into Turkish airspace so all those reasonable warnings in a matter of seconds , pilots were not given much of a chance , according to Jason that seems to be reasonable to shoot it down , Jason you are an absolute clown , suppose you will deny strong evidence that Turkey are buying oil from daesh and offering daesh protection

    2
    Favourite Stephen O'Sullivan
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    Nov 25th 2015, 5:11 PM

    Captain..
    There are indeed NATO and US military bases in former Soviet and Eastern Bloc countries, in fact Georgia and Ukraine have recently also requested to join NATO. Why is it you think these countries are seeking to ALLIGN themselves with the West? You don’t think its because they genuinely fear their neigbour Russia?

    2
    Favourite Stephen O'Sullivan
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    Nov 25th 2015, 5:21 PM

    Ciaran.. “Oh so it’s Putin looking for a War!!” Talking about being deluded..Have you forgotten already why Russia at the moment is under Economic sanctions by so many countries? Canada, Japan, US, Australia, EU, Iceland, Norway, Switzerland…
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_sanctions_during_the_Ukrainian_crisis

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