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Comment #3256397 by Michael Mctague

Michael Mctague Dec 24th 2014, 8:52 AM #

Man shot dead by police after drawing gun at petrol station would be a more accurate headline, rather than trying to drum up more hate for the police before really knowing what’s happened. Already crowds on the scene and shops burning ?? Didn’t see any riots after the two police officers were murdered?

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Read the article where this comment appeared:

'Bad choices were made': Clashes as police confirm black teenager shot dead near Ferguson

'Bad choices were made': Clashes as police confirm black teenager shot dead near Ferguson

There are conflicting accounts of what happened prior to the shooting in the St Louis suburb of Berkeley.

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    Favourite Mike Hall
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    Dec 24th 2014, 9:21 AM

    As usual tho’, it is the police telling us what happened….. as we’ve seen on countless occasions in this situation, police close ranks and are more than prepared to lie.

    Recall those 5 or 6 officers who killed Eric Garner whilst arresting him with a choke hold & chest compression ALL emphatically denied those things happened, in sworn testimony. Then the video emerged where is was obvious they had ALL lied thru’ their teeth, repeatedly.

    I don’t think the police deserve any presumption of trust. One might say especially those in the US, who seem particularly bad, but then a number of recent events have confirmed Gardai willingness to lie, distort and subvert the truth.

    The sooner all police are required to carry body cameras the better. And if any vital recordings mysreriously go missing (as they have already in some cases), then I think we should presume witness statements to be more truthful over those of the police.

    383
    Favourite Jason Culligan
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    Dec 24th 2014, 9:45 AM

    Mike, I would agree with you if it wasn’t for the fact that a handgun has already been recovered from the scene.

    479
    Favourite Mike Hall
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    Dec 24th 2014, 9:47 AM

    Jason

    That doesn’t imply the officer was threatened with it, and if you think the police wouldn’t plant a gun, you are very naive indeed.

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    Favourite John Payne
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    Dec 24th 2014, 9:55 AM

    Mike, if you think the locals wouldn’t lie to drum up more anti-cop sentiment then you’re also very naive!

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    Favourite Mike Hall
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    Dec 24th 2014, 10:03 AM

    Here’s another case of police criminality turned up today…

    Man (a hospital patient!) charged with assaulting police officer until the security footage showed the opposite….

    http://thefreethoughtproject.com/san-francisco-cop-caught-choking-sleeping-hospital-patient-falsely-arresting/#vQTdgME8ZWACwqJQ.01

    I think it’s very likely that police forces in most countries have a higher proportion of Psychopaths – no empathy, no conscience – than the general population, or at least very high scores on the Psychopathy test. The power over others that police have would be enormously attractive to a Psychopath, who’s view of life could easily be said to be simply a game to be ‘won’ (vs other people) where the power of a police officer would be considered a hugely valuable asset. They would also know that police near always close ranks and cover up, including (or especially?) senior ranks.

    We can test for Psychopathy with very consistent results, and back up the standard tests with brain scanning as well.

    I think all those in public office with the power of decision over people, should be mandatorily tested for psychopathy.

    126
    Favourite Jason Culligan
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    Dec 24th 2014, 10:05 AM

    A police officer doesn’t need to be threatened by a firearm to be in danger. Martin was in possession of a concealed weapon illegally and was unresponsive to police commands only days after two police officers were gunned down.

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    Favourite birdseye
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    Dec 24th 2014, 10:05 AM

    The garner lad died of strangulation did he?

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    Favourite Sergeant Yates
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    Dec 24th 2014, 10:06 AM

    @Mike – how many links can you find for Police officers stopping burglars, stopping murderers and rapists on a daily basis?

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    Favourite Sergeant Yates
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    Dec 24th 2014, 10:11 AM

    Also @Mike Many police officers seen many things that may ‘desensitise’ them to certain events… like an experienced paramedic – if police officers broke down in tears or became emotional at certain events they couldn’t do their job… also the term ‘psychopath’ is as you correctly term is someone having no empathy.. that does not necessarily mean they are dangerous beings (psychopath does not mean murderer)… it is a trait in a good Judge in a court of law.

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    Favourite Paul O Mahony
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    Dec 24th 2014, 10:12 AM

    Unfortunately its hard to get the truth from any of this. His mother said he was his girlfriend, a friend said he was with him, cops say there was a gun, witnesses say they didn’t see a gun.

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    Favourite Etheric Projection
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    Dec 24th 2014, 10:16 AM

    And who found the hand gun… Wouldn’t be too difficult to grab a gun and put his
    Prints on it. Very difficult who to believe. Trust gone

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    Favourite Mike Hall
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    Dec 24th 2014, 10:16 AM

    John,

    So you think it’s all a conspiracy against the police? So we should then just presume the police to be truthful? Where all the +eveidence+ tells that there is a very strong case of considerable racism in US police forces.

    I suggest you look into exactly how the Grand Jury evidence was handled and presented in the Michael Brown and Eric Garners cases. With selection and omission it is a system absolutely open to abuse by states attorneys, who of course work closely with police. The victim’s legal representatives don’t get any chance to review or cross examine in any way.

    The Grand Jury system looks like the system you would design if you wanted to give prosecutors carte blanche to get a case dismissed whilst deflecting any professional responsibility for such miscarriage of justice onto a lay jury, here today, gone tomorrow.

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    Favourite Fergal Kelly
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    Dec 24th 2014, 10:16 AM

    That’s what’s expected of them sarge. I’m not saying that anything untoward hapoened here but there are countless videos proving police lies in statements, planting evidence etc; you can’t just deny that because most do their job properly.

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    Favourite Mike Hall
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    Dec 24th 2014, 10:25 AM

    The point here that most of you are missing is the question of +presumption+.

    Most of you here are trying to make some argument that we should simply +presume+ the accuracy of the police testimony and go home, job done, man dead, no further action needed.

    Which flies in the face of incidents we +absolutely know without any doubt+ of police colluding to lie in very serious cases….

    Maybe you’re all FF, FG, or Labour supporters who don’t believe in accountability for public officials?

    Sounds like it….

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    Favourite Avina Laaf
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    Dec 24th 2014, 10:30 AM

    Mike, the Michael Brown case also demonstrated that many ‘witnesses’ are also prepared to lie, until that lie is exposed in court.
    Cameras are the only way forward – I’ve had a dashcam in the car for the past couple of years as a result of an accident I was involved in, in which the other driver lied through her teeth. Thankfully the guards didn’t believe her and she was prosecuted but it was an eye opener – it would have been much easier to hand them a memory card instead of all the hassle and stress I was forced to endure.

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    Favourite birdseye
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    Dec 24th 2014, 10:30 AM

    Your presuming the cops are conspiring to deceive the public and make up evidence
    Based on what tho?
    It’s all just your opinion.
    More cases of criminals being untruthful than cops

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    Favourite Emily Elephant
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    Dec 24th 2014, 10:43 AM

    Based on a long and proud history of police officers making up the facts, and frequently the evidence, to support their version of events. And as the Hillsborough report put it, the quality of testimony is frequently in inverse proportion to their rank.

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    Favourite Free Gaza
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    Dec 24th 2014, 10:57 AM

    Avina, would you include Witness 40, one of the main witnesses supporting Wilson’s story, in that group of witnesses who lied, or at the very least got their details mixed up as often happens with eyewitness testimony? It is notoriously unreliable. Also, it was never exposed in court seeing as it never went to court

    http://m.mic.com/articles/106970/ferguson-prosecutor-made-a-startling-admission-that-could-reopen-the-darren-wilson-case?utm_source=policymicTWTR&utm_medium=main&utm_campaign=social

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    Favourite Mike Hall
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    Dec 24th 2014, 10:58 AM

    No, I’m not presuming anything in this case (or others)… simply pointing out the fact that the police version of events cannot be presumed entirely factual, which seems to be the underlying assumption of most people commenting here.

    You also seem to be the same people who always also assume the ‘official’ version of events, given by officials and mainstream media is always trustworthy.

    Doubtless, the system operating in society at present largely works well for you personally – the I’m alright jack brigade. But as we see in numerous cases, from widespread paedophilia and cover ups in the Church, across every area of public responsibility, the reality is that the systems, including those supposed to offer some acountability, are found to be utterly dysfunctional.

    I write a lot about economics – the mainstream, as we’ve witnessed these last few years, is utterly unfit for purpose, run by and for the bankers & wealthy & supported by intellectually bankrupt but well remunerated ‘professionals’ and academics.

    Frankly, it seems all those in authority will simply collect their salaries & look the other way, and fight tooth and nail to prevent any real systems of accountability to the public they are supposed to serve (but plainly don’t).

    The underlying reality seems to be that systems of unaccountable rank and privilege, typical of prior centuries, is very much alive and well. From the politics of dynasties to self-serving institutions of all kinds, little has changed.

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    Favourite Free Gaza
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    Dec 24th 2014, 11:00 AM

    And remember the twelve year old kid shot dead by police for having a toy gun. The police claimed they’d told him to show his hands three times, but when the video emerged it showed that they pulled up, nearly knocking him over, and within 2 seconds the kid was on the ground, hardly enough time to tell him even once to show his hands. With the Eric Garner case the police lied, until the video emerged exposing that lie

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    Favourite Charles Mcdonald
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    Dec 24th 2014, 11:03 AM

    Well you carry a gun you disobey a cop then expect to have a gun pointed at you. Seems with all the looting and stuff that the locals are not the nicest of people. Not hard to believe he threatened the officer.

    I’m sure there is cctv

    103
    Favourite Free Gaza
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    Dec 24th 2014, 11:08 AM

    Why did the police officer approach him in the first place, and why was he ordered to get to the ground? Maybe that will explain why, if at all, the guy pulled the gun on the police officer

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    Favourite Avina Laaf
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    Dec 24th 2014, 11:11 AM

    Gaza, we’re not talking about witnesses becoming confused over details, we’re talking about so-called ‘witnesses’ being forced to admit that they weren’t even there, when faced with testifying under oath in front of a grand jury when their statements were proven to be false by the physical evidence.

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    Favourite Free Gaza
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    Dec 24th 2014, 11:13 AM

    I did say “at the very least” but are you going to answer my question about Witness 40?

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    Favourite Scipio
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    Dec 24th 2014, 11:20 AM

    In case you haven’t noticed the Grand Jury decision in the Brown case was not based on the testimony of one witness.

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    Favourite Free Gaza
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    Dec 24th 2014, 11:23 AM

    I never said it was, Scipio, but this witness is a known racist, was known to be lying, but was still heard from by the grand jury…twice. Would you include Witness 40, one of the key witnesses in support of Wilson’s case, in the group of witnesses who are accused of lying against Wilson’s case?

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    Favourite Alan Lawlor
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    Dec 24th 2014, 11:27 AM

    So far the only undisputed fact that can be accepted is that the man was shot dead by a police officer. All other pieces of info – that he had a gun , that he pointed it at the police, who was with are all alleged incidents.
    There should be no presumption of innocence OR guilt for either parties until a judge, coroner or jury has decided and all evidence has come to light.

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    Favourite Scipio
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    Dec 24th 2014, 11:29 AM

    You might have a point if the same was true of more then just that one witness and the autopsy reports and medical expertise did not back up the officer’s version of events.

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    Favourite Avina Laaf
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    Dec 24th 2014, 11:33 AM

    Gaza, it was reported that they were approached because they fitted the description of suspects in a robbery. And yes, perhaps if he was carrying an illegal firearm this does explain his refusal to lie down when asked.
    Your thinking is seriously warped if you think being challenged by police and ordered to lie down is justification for drawing a weapon on them.

    Re. the Michael Brown grand jury, the point is the jury heard ALL the evidence and made their judgement on that basis.

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    Favourite big willy
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    Dec 24th 2014, 11:40 AM

    People will soon find out whether its a black or not anyway – we live in the age of the internet

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    Favourite joe stodge
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    Dec 24th 2014, 11:56 AM

    http://youtu.be/QR465HoCWFQ a lot of people need to watch this video and cop the fück on.

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    Favourite Graham Kavanagh
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    Dec 24th 2014, 12:00 PM

    Mike, if you pull a gun, regardless of intent to use it or not, you know the very possible outcome.

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    Favourite Paul O Mahony
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    Dec 24th 2014, 12:58 PM

    @Etheric I would be pretty sure cops don’t carry around spare hand guns to plant on people .

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    Favourite Charles Mcdonald
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    Dec 24th 2014, 12:59 PM

    I just watched your link joe and it’s just so so true.

    Black people in America are just as equal and just as successful. Give me zoe saldana or Beyonce :D but you have a small minority that want the hood life.

    The wire was excellent reflection on that. We have same problem here with a certain minority. They get more chances then we do but still lead a life of crime and perceived persecution.

    If Micheal brown did not rob a shop just before the officer arrived. Indeed if he did not try to kill the officer then he would still be alive.

    There are few black leaders of international recognition in the USA speaking in support of Micheal brown because it would be like me supporting travelling community criminality. They see it for what it is.

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    Favourite Nosmo King
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    Dec 24th 2014, 1:22 PM

    A routine check on a petrol station ? The only routine visits to petrol stations here are for the doughnuts and coffee , except in Balbriggan barracks where they are flush enough to order in.

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    Favourite Mike Brennan
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    Dec 24th 2014, 1:35 PM

    No, but thanks for speaking for most of us all the same. I’d sooner wait for the evidence before making my ‘presumptions’. I’d sooner wait until the cctv is examined – before, during and after the event, the gun examined, witnesses are properly interviewed and have made statements and a full outline of what happened from this police officer’s perspective before I come to my conclusions. I sincerely hope that you aren’t called for jury duty any time soon for a serious case.

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    Favourite Ciarán Masterson
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    Dec 24th 2014, 2:02 PM

    @Mike

    Technically, it may not have been a choke-hold.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-echochambers-30323811

    ‘One particular point of contention in many of the messages was media descriptions of the restraining move used by Mr Pantaleo as a “chokehold”.

    “He was not choked to death,” writes officerloney. “He was taken down by the neck after refusing to comply with the lawful arrest of officers of the NYPD.”

    Another says Mr Pantaleo was using a “lateral neck restraint” that, if done correctly, renders the “individual unconscious for a short time, enabling the officer to place handcuffs on the suspect”. Garner, some asserted, died as a result of complications from pre-existing medical conditions such as his weight and asthma.’

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    Favourite Deborah Behan
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    Dec 24th 2014, 2:21 PM

    Where does it say it was illegally held. In America it’s your god given right to hold a hidden firearm?

    5
    Favourite Jimminy BillyBob
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    Dec 24th 2014, 2:23 PM

    Deborah – Laws vary from state to state

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    Favourite Ciarán Masterson
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    Dec 24th 2014, 2:27 PM

    @Deborah

    “Illegally held” probably means pointing a gun at someone without justification.

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    Favourite Kitty Prendergast
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    Dec 24th 2014, 2:29 PM

    Joe – think I just peed my pants laughing! Very good!

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    Favourite Kitty Prendergast
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    Dec 24th 2014, 2:31 PM

    Deborah – it also says the serial number was removed. That is DEFINITELY illegal!

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    Favourite Jason Culligan
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    Dec 24th 2014, 3:04 PM

    Deborah, you need to acquire a permit in most states in order to legally carry a concealed firearm if it is even allowed by state law. In Missouri, a legal permit for concealed carry requires an age of 19 or over so he was carrying a concealed firearm illegally.

    As others have said, the serial numbers were removed meaning the firearm was also either illegally purchased or stolen.

    27
    Favourite Stephen Earle
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    Dec 24th 2014, 3:17 PM

    Charles, so its ok for a guy to pull a gun on a police officer because he’s been asked to lie on the ground ? – warped sense of right and wrong you have there

    27
    Favourite Stephen Earle
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    Dec 24th 2014, 3:19 PM

    Sorry, meant gaza not charles

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    Favourite Avina Laaf
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    Dec 24th 2014, 4:42 PM

    After seeing the cctv Mike, do you still presume the witnesses are more truthful than the police?

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    Favourite Charles Mcdonald
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    Dec 24th 2014, 4:44 PM

    All is forgiven Stephen. Merry Xmas :)

    12
    Favourite Free Gaza
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    Dec 24th 2014, 5:03 PM

    Avina and Stephen, at no point did I ever say that being approached by police and ordered to the ground is justification for pulling a gun on a cop. Why accuse me of saying that when I clearly didn’t? I was just wondering about the lead up to the guy pulling out the gun, what’s so terrible about asking that question?

    4
    Favourite Free Gaza
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    Dec 24th 2014, 5:05 PM

    Avina, the point is that the prosecutor deliberately and knowingly allowed the jury to hear the testimony of an openly racist woman who was not present, was known to be lying, and took several weeks to come forward. Not just once, but twice. If someone is known to be lying and was not there, then how is that evidence? You still haven’t answered my question

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    Favourite johnny boy
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    Dec 24th 2014, 5:29 PM

    Spend 3 months in America and been there few other times, the black community don’t want to work, all want to be gangstas, hate the law and blame white man for everything, the inconvenient truth

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    Favourite Free Gaza
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    Dec 24th 2014, 5:30 PM

    Johnny Boy, look at these stats and say that again
    http://m.motherjones.com/politics/2014/02/black-stats-racism-debunk

    3
    Favourite Free Gaza
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    Dec 24th 2014, 5:32 PM

    And don’t give me the crap about calling you a racist because I’m not, it’s just that the folk and Mother Jones chose that word, not me, but that doesn’t take away from the statistics

    6
    Favourite Ciarán Masterson
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    Dec 24th 2014, 7:44 PM

    @Charles

    I haven’t got around to getting the box-set of The Wire but I really should.

    4
    Favourite johnny boy
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    Dec 24th 2014, 8:06 PM

    Hi free gaza I seen with my naked eye, not some crap stats that anyone can make up to suit themselves, naked eye hard to beat….!

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    Favourite johnny boy
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    Dec 24th 2014, 8:10 PM

    Voice of Afro American awakened by cement mixer in downtown Philly at 9:30, ” these god damn chunky white ass mo fos weakening me in my god damn sleep”

    15
    Favourite Free Gaza
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    Dec 24th 2014, 8:50 PM

    And one guy’s experience doesn’t trump statistics. Please show me some hard evidence to back up your claim

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    Favourite Charles Mcdonald
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    Dec 24th 2014, 9:22 PM

    Ciaran

    It’s starting to be screened in HD so wait for blu ray. It’s up there with best shows ever made.

    It’s dirty it’s gritty and does not hide the reality of living in the projects.

    these people in that area need to cop on. A protestor looting is nothing more than a thug and they need locking up.

    17
    Favourite Ciarán Masterson
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    Dec 24th 2014, 9:54 PM

    @Charles

    I don’t mind watching it in Standard Definition. Honestly, I’m not fussed about HD.

    Those people look for any excuse to riot.

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    Favourite Peter O'Leary
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    Dec 24th 2014, 10:38 PM

    Thick as shit

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    Favourite KeiKe
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    Dec 25th 2014, 12:19 AM

    Your spouting bollox

    1
    Favourite Charles Mcdonald
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    Dec 25th 2014, 12:59 AM

    Ciaran

    http://youtu.be/LYgKmOJT_gM

    Very first part of very first show for you.

    Just when you do get in to it season one is slow as it builds up characters. After season 1 it’s more addictive then drugs :)

    When I got into it many a morning I was only getting to bed at 7am. Bloody brilliant.

    I’m sure others were the same

    4
    Favourite Diddydolittle
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    Dec 25th 2014, 2:10 AM

    And many others were equally amazed it kept getting recommissioned

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    Favourite Diddydolittle
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    Dec 25th 2014, 2:14 AM

    And just as many others wondered how it got recommissioned every year

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    Favourite Grot Master
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    Dec 25th 2014, 8:56 AM

    Charles – or should it be Slim Charles? You are absolutely right, “The Wire” is the best of em all. Blows every other cop show out of the water. That’s including The Shield, and tbh, even the mighty Breaking Bad pales in comparison, I’m sure you’d agree?

    2
    Favourite Charles Mcdonald
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    Dec 25th 2014, 10:55 AM

    No other cop show comes close. Shows in general are not as good.

    Breaking bad was good and was hugely successful while airing. The wire was not only after it ended it became a cult.

    The sopranos was another classic show as was Oz. But nothing is on same level as the wire :)

    the games the game yo. When you come at the king you best not miss

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    Favourite Grot Master
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    Dec 25th 2014, 5:05 PM

    That there’s some spiderman shit.

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