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Comment #4926948 by doorhandler

doorhandler Mar 29th 2016, 2:37 PM #

Would Love to see then get nothing at all. Stopping working class people going to events to remember men like James Connolly was the lowest act unions have inflicted on Irish people in living memory.

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There are MORE Luas strikes planned for this weekend - and it looks like they're going ahead...

There are MORE Luas strikes planned for this weekend - and it looks like they're going ahead...

The tram service was closed last weekend, and it seems it’ll take something special to stop this weekend’s strikes from going ahead also.

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    Favourite doorhandler
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    Mar 29th 2016, 2:37 PM

    Would Love to see then get nothing at all. Stopping working class people going to events to remember men like James Connolly was the lowest act unions have inflicted on Irish people in living memory.

    1166
    Favourite jane
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    Mar 29th 2016, 2:42 PM

    Let’s not forget those who are backing them and encouraging them. There are TDs who need to pay the price for backing this greed.

    591
    Favourite dowthebow
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    Mar 29th 2016, 2:43 PM

    Men like James Connolly? Would that be the trade unionist James Connolly? Hopefully you’re being sarcastic…

    74
    Favourite doorhandler
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    Mar 29th 2016, 2:45 PM

    Very true Jane. The media need to ask our politicians where they stand on the issue.

    235
    Favourite George Hogan
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    Mar 29th 2016, 2:49 PM

    The Luas drivers can’t be that badly off, if they can afford to take so many strike days off without pay AND to lose their non-strike bonus! There aren’t many workers who could take the equivalent of almost a week UNPAID from work every month. SIPTU have totally mislead these well-paid workers. And the AAA politicians have shot themselves in the foot by supporting them!

    580
    Favourite Wally Mooney
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    Mar 29th 2016, 2:49 PM

    The strike is a fitting tribute to the great socialist James Connolly on the centenary of his execution at the hands of our previous capitalist ruling class. . The cause of the working class is only ever advanced significantly and sustainably through collective action, solidarity and struggle against the capitalist system. The lives of the majority are only bearable because of the many battles fought and won by the earlier unions. Minimum wage, 40 hour working week, workplace health and safety, universal health care and education, state pension etc etc etc. None of these concessions to the working class were willingly gifted by capital but we’re fought and won over centuries of socialist struggle.

    Solidarity with the Luas drivers, the Cadbury workers, the nurses, the teachers and all workers struggling to obtain a greater share of the wealth which we create. As the data clearly shows, the trend over the past few decades has been overwhelmingly in the opposite direction with greater and greater wealth accumulating to capital owners and less and less to the workers. This has disastrous consequences for society and it’s long past time we stopped the rot.

    Connolly summed it up neatly below:
    “Not the rack-renting, slum-owning landlord; not the sweating, profit-grinding capitalist; not the sleek and oily lawyer; not the prostitute pressman – the hired liars of the enemy. Not these are the Irish upon whom the future depends. Not these, but the Irish working class, the only secure foundation upon which a free nation can be reared.”

    56
    Favourite jane
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    Mar 29th 2016, 2:54 PM

    James Connolly was firmly against greed.

    575
    Favourite Wally Mooney
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    Mar 29th 2016, 2:58 PM

    Jane,
    Fighting for a decent wage is not greed as Connolly understood well while you appear not to.
    How little would you have the drivers earn?

    37
    Favourite Jason Culligan
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    Mar 29th 2016, 2:59 PM

    The irony is that Wally is probably writing this comment on an iPad while drinking a Starbucks.

    617
    Favourite Cal Cryton
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    Mar 29th 2016, 3:00 PM

    Wally i’ll answer your question precisely: In Germany light rail drivers earn €20-25k per annum.

    465
    Favourite shits ville
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    Mar 29th 2016, 3:02 PM

    Pure greed! Can anyone tell me what is the point of having a WRC / LRC if the striking people outright reject a fair settlement as adjudicated by WRC?

    314
    Favourite jane
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    Mar 29th 2016, 3:02 PM

    Wally they are earning a decent wage while making those paid a lot less fork out for taxis to get to their minimum wage jobs.
    You are not a socialist, you are an anarchist. There’s a big difference.

    430
    Favourite Wally Mooney
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    Mar 29th 2016, 3:03 PM

    Jason,
    It’s ironic you managed to name 2 tax dodging parasitic multinationals in a comment intended to disparage the working class.

    34
    Favourite James Reardon
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    Mar 29th 2016, 3:04 PM

    Starting salary of 32k isn’t decent?? And rising to 43k over 10 year?? F**k off

    484
    Favourite doorhandler
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    Mar 29th 2016, 3:04 PM

    @Wally. How much do you think they should be paid ?

    219
    Favourite Colonel Buckshot
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    Mar 29th 2016, 3:04 PM

    I think we all know where AAA-PBP stand on this issue anyway!

    190
    Favourite shits ville
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    Mar 29th 2016, 3:08 PM

    Wally wants to pay them €100k and then tax them at 70%, it’d be hilarious if it wasn’t true!!

    299
    Favourite Wally Mooney
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    Mar 29th 2016, 3:10 PM

    Cal,
    It seems that the German train drivers aren’t prepared to accept their low wages either:

    “Germany’s most disruptive strike campaign in decades came to an unexpected end on Thursday as German railways and a combative train drivers’ union announced an agreement to refer a months-long dispute to arbitration”

    https://next.ft.com/content/1366f65c-ff93-11e4-bc30-00144feabdc0

    22
    Favourite Jason Culligan
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    Mar 29th 2016, 3:11 PM

    Not even that, Wally wants to turn Ireland into another great Communist country alongside such success stories as North Korea and the Soviet Union. What bastions of human rights and economic equality those turned out to be.

    225
    Favourite tommy macdonagh
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    Mar 29th 2016, 3:12 PM

    just fire them all it really is that simple. remember folks to tell all the drivers exactly what you think of their disgusting greed

    255
    Favourite Wally Mooney
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    Mar 29th 2016, 3:14 PM

    Colonel,

    The AAA always stands beside the working class. We also understand that paying all workers a decent wage is in the interests of the vast majority. Business in general wants its customers to have as much money in their pockets as possible to purchase their products and services and generate revenue and profit. In contrast, each individual firm wants to pay their workers as little as possible to reduce costs in order to maximize profit. In the macro economy, the workers ARE the customers and this glaring contradiction is lost on the slavering neo liberals eternally demanding wage cuts and ‘flexibility’ such as zero hour contracts in the labour market.

    It’s always aggregate demand and spending through the whole economy that ultimately creates and maintains jobs. Someone’s spending is always someone else’s job and income as the macro economy is circular. It is the aggregate spending of everyone in the economy, public, private, individuals and businesses that maintains and creates employment. We have seen the result of slashed government and private sector spending over the past 8 years of Austerity reflected in our massive dole queues, planes full of emigrants and mounting social problems such as the homelessness crisis.

    15
    Favourite doorhandler
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    Mar 29th 2016, 3:16 PM

    Wally how much should a luas driver get paid ?

    196
    Favourite Jason Culligan
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    Mar 29th 2016, 3:18 PM

    Higher wages, higher costs of production, higher prices and higher inflation. Lower labour competitiveness compared to low-cost economies and lowering of exports due to higher costs per product compared to foreign alternatives.

    I’m surprised that you seem to be completely oblivious to these foundation-level economic principles Wally.

    146
    Favourite Richard Cynical
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    Mar 29th 2016, 3:20 PM

    why don’t they start firing these people and hiring people who want to work

    213
    Favourite Wally Mooney
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    Mar 29th 2016, 3:21 PM

    Jason,
    Higher wages could equally mean a greater share accumulating to labour and less to capital while prices remain static. I’m surprised that you think the Luas light rail system can emigrate to a low cost economy.

    13
    Favourite David Nihill
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    Mar 29th 2016, 3:25 PM

    Wally I would have them earn the dole and they don’t even deserve that. They should be all sacked.

    187
    Favourite doorhandler
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    Mar 29th 2016, 3:26 PM

    Hey Wally. How high should a luas drivers salary be ?

    163
    Favourite Jess O'Neill
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    Mar 29th 2016, 3:27 PM

    Wally, do you believe the gardaí should get a pay increase or are they different because of the Garda management decision to prevent Paul Murphy from fundraising?

    126
    Favourite Wally Mooney
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    Mar 29th 2016, 3:29 PM

    Doorhandler,
    The drivers should earn enough to provide a decent home for themselves their families, good food on the table, heat and light, decent healthcare and education for the children and enough to pay for the home (banker) tax, etc etc and god forbid, even a family holiday.

    21
    Favourite Jason Culligan
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    Mar 29th 2016, 3:32 PM

    Wally, you think this isn’t possible when one member of the household is taking home €44,000 p/y when there’s a possibility that a second member of the family is also taking in say the average wage of €35,000?

    180
    Favourite Wally Mooney
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    Mar 29th 2016, 3:34 PM

    Jason,
    Transdev are on a fixed price contract and have no authority to increase fares. If they can’t pay their workers a decent wage while extracting a profit from the publically owned light rail infrastructure, well then the Luas operation should be taken back into public ownership where it belongs.

    11
    Favourite doorhandler
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    Mar 29th 2016, 3:38 PM

    Sorry Wally you seem to misunderstand. My question is can you put a figure on how much a luas driver should earn ?

    156
    Favourite Wally Mooney
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    Mar 29th 2016, 3:39 PM

    Jason,

    I think one wage should be enough to maintain a household so that children don’t have to be dragged out of bed at 6.00 am to be dumped into a crèche for the week in order to feed the ever gaping maw of the capitalist system.

    22
    Favourite Suzie Sunshine
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    Mar 29th 2016, 3:39 PM

    Wally some people live within their means , maybe wives of some of them are working too and can still provide those things you mentioned on the wages that they are on now .

    106
    Favourite Ian McNally
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    Mar 29th 2016, 3:41 PM

    So they can continue hold the public to ransom except this time they would be gouging the public coffers like every other group public transport, it would give SIPTU far too much power over our countries transport system to be able to grind them to a halt whenever the government tells them they can’t have ice cream for dinner

    96
    Favourite Suzie Sunshine
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    Mar 29th 2016, 3:41 PM

    Doorhandler , Wally beats around the bush , rarely answers direct questions. ..

    124
    Favourite Jason Culligan
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    Mar 29th 2016, 3:42 PM

    Wally, that’s funny as I could have sworn that the publicly owned transport networks are an absolute shambles compared to the public owned/private operated Luas system. You’re lucky if a train, bus or DART arrives on-time. Look at Aer Lingus as another prime example, just about to go under thanks to government ownership but privatisation has seen a revival of that airline.

    It’s about time that you come to the realisation that the state is simply incapable of operating an effective public transport system.

    100
    Favourite Wally Mooney
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    Mar 29th 2016, 3:42 PM

    No misunderstanding doorhandler. You put a figure on how much those basics I’ve listed would cost if you wish.

    6
    Favourite Jason Culligan
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    Mar 29th 2016, 3:44 PM

    Wally, a single-household income of €44,000 p/y should be entirely doable without a 161 in the driveway and a €550k mortgage.

    127
    Favourite Search Eagle
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    Mar 29th 2016, 3:45 PM

    “Transdev are on a fixed price contract and have no authority to increase fares. If they can’t pay their workers a decent wage while extracting a profit from the publically owned light rail infrastructure, well then the Luas operation should be taken back into public ownership where it belongs.”

    This seems to be the dream of the Luas staff and their supporters.To be taken into public ownership and get access to the taxpayer ATM to fund their extravagant claims.

    We cannot allow CIE to destroy yet another mode of transport.

    108
    Favourite Wally Mooney
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    Mar 29th 2016, 3:48 PM

    Jane,
    The only reason that Ireland has a financial constraint is because of our Euro membership. For other nations which issue their own currency e,g. Britain there can never be a shortage of money and the only concern is the availability of real resources e.g. skilled labour, energy etc.
    Ireland has all the necessary resources to provide decent healthcare, education, housing etc for all of our people. It’s entirely an ideological and political choice not to do so.

    10
    Favourite TheBull
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    Mar 29th 2016, 3:49 PM

    Bye Bye AAA. Ye had a golden chance to make moves in irish politics and ye already blew it. Clowns.

    196
    Favourite Jason Culligan
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    Mar 29th 2016, 3:49 PM

    The Weimar Republic didn’t have an issue with printing their own money either Wally, they did have an issue with a shortage of wheelbarrows required to carry the amount of money needed to buy a loaf of bread though.

    120
    Favourite stopit
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    Mar 29th 2016, 3:54 PM

    our entire household income is slightly higher than their starting salary.

    granted we don’t have kids because we can’t afford it. We do without most unnecessary things e.g. TV, eating out etc. but do take cheap holidays.

    I think the Luas drivers can strike if they want, that’s a matter for them and their employer imo

    BUT for Wally to say the drivers can’t live on that wage without having to have paid for a post-leaving education or training of any kind is the biggest pile of crap I have heard in years.

    as for it being a battle for other worker, what a load of nonsense.

    126
    Favourite jane
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    Mar 29th 2016, 3:55 PM

    Ah the old print more money argument. I did say live in the real world Wally.

    79
    Favourite Wally Mooney
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    Mar 29th 2016, 3:59 PM

    Jason,
    The Irish publically owned transport systems are underperforming because the subsidies they need to run the service are some of the lowest in Europe and really nothing to do with them being state rather than private sector operated.
    You do understand that Ireland would still be waiting for a nationwide electricity grid had we left its provision to the vagaries of the private sector and not established the state owned and operated ESB?

    5
    Favourite Patrick Gough
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    Mar 29th 2016, 4:00 PM

    Did you read the ladybird book on socialism wally?

    99
    Favourite Gary
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    Mar 29th 2016, 4:01 PM

    Cal, in Cuba Doctors earn $100 per month, should it be the same here? I agree that the Luas drivers are taking the pi$$ and they shouldn’t get a cent more.

    66
    Favourite doorhandler
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    Mar 29th 2016, 4:04 PM

    Wally, If you can just give us a figure so we know how much of a rise the luas drivers need. Then this inconvenient stike,especially for the workers of this country, that is obviously been caused by managment can come to a swift end. So just a figure please Wally ?

    68
    Favourite Wally Mooney
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    Mar 29th 2016, 4:05 PM

    Jason,
    The Weimar hyperinflation was the result of a catastrophic collapse in productive capacity due to the war and a vast foreign currency debt obligation also due to war reparations. There was little availability of real goods & services to purchase with the newly created Mark currency and so hyperinflation followed. (Ditto for Zimbabwe).

    Neither of these factors apply to a developed economy (e.g. Britain) which is a monopoly fiat currency issuer and so has no need to rack up foreign currency debt obligations. These nations are also economic entities with massive productive capacity and more capacity lying idle (e.g labour) which can be easily activated if the necessary money was made available.

    Damaging levels of inflation will only occur when there is chronic excess demand relative to the real capacity of the economy to produce output to meet that demand. This is rarely a concern in a modern economy which produces an excess of virtually all essential goods & services relative to demand. In other words there is no inflation risk in the creation of new money once there is sufficient real wealth of goods and services to absorb that additional money as clearly borne out in the data.

    Since the 1980s the global money supply has increased almost exponentially as the deregulated commercial banks massively increased their loan books and expanded the money supply (The money is uncreated as the loans are repaid but at a much slower pace). And yet there has been no hyperinflation that the monetarists continually hyperventilate about.

    The elite have no issue with vast levels of money creation once its purpose is to enrich the financial sector through commercial bank lending to fuel property bubbles or via QE for example. But money creation to serve the interests of the majority is considered to be economic heresy. Interesting.

    5
    Favourite stopit
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    Mar 29th 2016, 4:08 PM

    Do John O’Connor want the drivers to be paid such high salaries so that his salary of €108,000 doesn’t look so despicable?

    87
    Favourite Wally Mooney
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    Mar 29th 2016, 4:10 PM

    Agreed stopit. The union leader’s salaries are a disgrace. They should draw the same average wages as the people they represent which is why the AAA-PBP TD’s only take the average industrial wage with remainder funding the party and the various campaigns to defend the working class.
    (It’s Jack O’Connor btw)

    20
    Favourite jane
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    Mar 29th 2016, 4:18 PM

    AAA and PBP take the same wage as every other TD. How they choose to spend their money is their business.

    100
    Favourite Jess O'Neill
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    Mar 29th 2016, 4:21 PM

    Hi Wally Can I get an answer to my above question?

    62
    Favourite Patlyndo
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    Mar 29th 2016, 4:21 PM

    Jane the state should wipe Wally’s arse from the cradle to the grave – you should realise that by now!!

    60
    Favourite The Viking
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    Mar 29th 2016, 4:23 PM

    Search Eagle. CIE destroy another mode of transport. As far as im concerned CIE as a whole done a tremendous job at the weekend to get everybody in and out of the city for the celebrations.

    45
    Favourite Al Guy
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    Mar 29th 2016, 4:30 PM

    So give us a number Wally, how much should a Luas driver be paid?

    61
    Favourite Gary Rowe
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    Mar 29th 2016, 4:32 PM

    Wally has previously stated that the police are not “working class” …

    46
    Favourite Cal Cryton
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    Mar 29th 2016, 4:34 PM

    Gary it’s not really valid to compare us to communist Cuba, but it’s quite valid to compare us to Germany, one of the richest countries in the world where light rail drivers are on €20-25k. That means luas drivers want more than twice the salary of their equivalents in one of the worlds top economies. Puts it in perspective.

    64
    Favourite Al Guy
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    Mar 29th 2016, 4:35 PM

    Ok Wally so give is a number in EUR and cents?

    How much should and Luas driver be paid?

    Surely that a simple question for a mouthpiece of the AAA, the party of clear speaking and transparency?

    64
    Favourite Aideen Thornton
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    Mar 29th 2016, 4:38 PM

    Are people STILL replying to Wally?!?!

    73
    Favourite jane
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    Mar 29th 2016, 4:39 PM

    I know Pat , I know.

    28
    Favourite Neal Ireland Hello
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    Mar 29th 2016, 4:47 PM

    Wally, this website has hundreds of thousands of users, yet on stories like this you- one person – constantly nonopolise the debate. It doesn’t seem very diplomatic or social to me.

    53
    Favourite Al Guy
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    Mar 29th 2016, 4:47 PM

    Wally

    - How much of the allowances do the AAA-PBP take ?
    - Do they also take the gilt edged pension that non of the working class have access too?

    44
    Favourite Tim
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    Mar 29th 2016, 4:50 PM

    Wally it’s impossible to verify that

    23
    Favourite Wally Mooney
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    Mar 29th 2016, 4:51 PM

    Al,
    I’m commenting here in a personal capacity while being clear about my political allegiances. I’m amused that you think this is a Q&A session.

    So I’ll refer you to my earlier answer:

    The drivers should be paid enough to provide a decent home for themselves their families, good food on the table, heat and light, decent healthcare and education for the children and enough to pay for the home (banker) tax, etc etc and god forbid, even a family holiday.

    Now, knock yourself and out and put a figure on that in Euro and cents.

    6
    Favourite doorhandler
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    Mar 29th 2016, 4:51 PM

    Al , Please no asking straight forward questions . Spoofers can not spoof if you ask direct questions.

    64
    Favourite Patrick Gough
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    Mar 29th 2016, 5:05 PM

    Do the people in aaa declare ythis money to revenue

    41
    Favourite Wally Mooney
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    Mar 29th 2016, 5:05 PM

    Neal,
    It’s not really a debate though is it? It’s primarily just a bile filled rant (see the initial comment above) against ordinary workers fighting to improve their wages.

    The capitalist system is preserved in large part by keeping the working class divided and fighting over the scraps so that we never look up and see who the real enemy is dining royally at our expense. They set us at each others throats under a variety of guises including religion, nationality, gender, race, working vs unemployed , public vs private sector, etc etc etc as they understand perfectly that a united working class means the end of their domination.

    And so the richest 62 individuals on the planet who now hold the same wealth has the poorest half of the globe’s population(3.5 billion people) would smile in quite satisfaction at the most of the commentary on this article.

    7
    Favourite Al Guy
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    Mar 29th 2016, 5:06 PM

    Glad you are amused but given that you have such solidarity with the drivers and as a man with a grasp of economics you must have an opinion…

    So again a simple question…and in a personal capacity

    fill in the blanks €_ _ ,_ _ _. _ _

    41
    Favourite George Salter
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    Mar 29th 2016, 5:12 PM

    Wally, I’m going to row in here. Your aims are laudable. I think that your economics is lacking, but that’s a different issue to this: I’m a highly qualified and skilled engineer, with two postgraduate diplomae. My salary is just above what the drivers want, with 20 years experience. I have a real difficulty with this- I did a tough course, over 4 years, that less than 10% of the population are capable of doing. Also, due to the nature of my field, private work is impossible:- I too will be a waged worker for all my life. Do you think that there is a certain unfairness in my salary comparing with someone who has completed a 7 week training period, or would you support me also getting a 50% rise to maintain some sort of relativity? If not, why would “anyone” bother doing a highly mathematical and scientific course for 4 years, with no earnings during this, when they could do 2 months and earn the same?

    96
    Favourite tommy macdonagh
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    Mar 29th 2016, 6:09 PM

    automate the luas and fire the lot of them it really is that simple

    58
    Favourite John Gleeson
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    Mar 29th 2016, 6:34 PM

    wats average industrial wage

    19
    Favourite Juan Venegas
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    Mar 29th 2016, 8:02 PM

    Wally, Its a given, you are a parasite yourself, talking about parasites, all you do is troll the whole day, I mean the whole day and only during working hours, and during late afternoons at weekends to suit your drunken hangover lifestyle.. You don’t have a job and you have no plans of getting one with all this time and effort trolling around. And if you do have a job, your arse needs to get fired for spending so much time trolling during working hours. Be a man and say it, you want people to listen to you, say what you do and if you are unemployed, say it. If you reply that “that’s none of my business of this is not related to this subject, is an unemployed’s way to say “I’m ashamed of showing my true self” be a man Wally.

    51
    Favourite Eucrid
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    Mar 29th 2016, 8:09 PM

    If you are earning €42k a year your not working class any more.

    38
    Favourite R.P. McMurphy
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    Mar 29th 2016, 8:33 PM

    LUAS drivers should receive parity with DART drivers who earn €54k per year for running a shit service that runs peak every 15/20 minutes.

    4
    Favourite Frank
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    Mar 29th 2016, 9:33 PM

    Listen here you can go S**te. They are greedy entitled PRI*cks who take advantage of national celebrations and nothing else. If there was a strong confident and effective political influenced here they would be told put up and shut up. Forget your pseudo/political nonsense and start talking brass sense.

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    Favourite The Destroyer
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    Mar 29th 2016, 10:00 PM

    @Wally, as you are still spouting nonsense..

    The drivers should be paid enough to provide a decent home for themselves their families, good food on the table, heat and light, decent healthcare and education for the children and enough to pay for the home (banker) tax, etc etc and god forbid, even a family holiday.

    So I would estimate..
    Rent – 1300 – perhaps cheaper if they live out of Dublin.
    Food – 100 quid buys a lot in aldi/lidl
    heat and light – 100 a month
    Education – subjective, all go to public school, which are not that bad and not that costly.
    Healthcare – not essential. I grew up without it, never had private, anything you went on the waiting list, why we have a public system, and oh yeah its free. so they can queue..
    home(banker tax)? – property tax I presume, well they are renting so this is not needed..
    Holiday, not required.. Let them save like the rest of us.

    so that would be what 2000 roughly a month, even a bit more say 2370(which is how much 35K is after tax) a month to live quite comfortably. So I would say 35K is max they should be earning!

    That simple enough for you to understand..

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    Favourite The Destroyer
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    Mar 29th 2016, 10:01 PM

    actually my calcs are wrong, 2000 would be well enough.

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    Favourite Dominic Kus
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    Mar 29th 2016, 11:21 PM

    Well, I do that on combined salary of 44k. With a combined work time of 14 hours a day. I see my kids for 2 hrs a day, my wife sees the kids for 4 hrs a day and we see each other for about an hour. A day. Six days a week. Still, my kids are fed and clothed, we have roof over our heads and, if we’re not all sick at once, we can afford a pack of paracetamol once in a while. Maybe I should strike and not feed my dog as a form of protest?

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    Favourite Seán O'Ceallaghan
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    Mar 29th 2016, 11:54 PM

    Wally these people have jobs thanks to capitalists

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    Favourite Micheál De Bhaldraithe
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    Mar 30th 2016, 1:31 PM

    So you also support County Councillors pay claims also?

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