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Comment #4839299 by Dave Sherman

Dave Sherman Mar 2nd 2016, 8:06 AM #

Its that not a U turn I don’t know what is.

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Enda Kenny says people should keep paying their water charges

Enda Kenny says people should keep paying their water charges

The Taoiseach said it would be a “seriously costly and seriously historic mistake” to get rid of the charges.

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    Favourite Diarmuid Lucey
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    Mar 2nd 2016, 8:08 AM

    “The issue of Water charges are on the table”……….should it not be down the drain??

    915
    Favourite michael
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    Mar 2nd 2016, 8:34 AM

    Less of a u turn and more of an s bend.

    531
    Favourite MK76
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    Mar 2nd 2016, 8:42 AM

    This country is absolutely cracked.

    First we had “we already pay”, which was completely thrown out the window when R2C proclaimed infrastructure improvements would have to be paid for by increases in income tax.

    Then we had “my problem isn’t with paying for water, rather IW themselves”. Now FF (and others) are saying we keep IW, but don’t charge. So really, people had an issue with paying anything.

    The LLA campaigned about a “fairer society”, but would rather see the ~€5bn taken out of gov’t coffers (€5bn that could go towards housing families or fixing the health system) to pay for the upgrades, rather than all of paying a little.

    Mé feinism continues to grow unabated.

    233
    Favourite up3bs9LF
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    Mar 2nd 2016, 8:50 AM

    No doubt about it, Fg would sell its soul to the devil, just to keep its pockets filled.

    793
    Favourite Old Gabby Johnson
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    Mar 2nd 2016, 8:53 AM

    @mk76 – yup. Someone has to pay for water – and what we pay already isn’t enough, was never enough and won’t be enough. So we get rid of ‘Irish Water’ and will only have to replace it with something else. I think u call it cutting off your nose to spite your face. – Many of the people who regularly protest pay for nothing – and water does not get covered in VAT receipts.

    The protest parties failed in this election to properly categorise on a labour meltdown with little increase of people to hard left – just the same people voting a different hue of left… some good ideas coming out of the sensible parties. It’s gonna be fun…

    184
    Favourite TTIP McGowan
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    Mar 2nd 2016, 8:54 AM

    MK76: You have seen every argument as you are on here regularly. So don’t pretend like the arguments haven’t made sense against Irish Water.

    You are bubbling them down as if people only had one problem with the company each. There are many problems with it. Some people have one problem, some people have many. In case you haven’t seen the list of the quango’s issues, please see below.

    1: Company is set up for privatisation (Re: Alan Kelly, his brother being CEO of Teneo holdings who specialize in water infrastructure privatisation around the world, just one search of Declan Kelly produces photos of many meetings with the Clinton’s who take huge donations from Veolia, who would you believe, are the ones who said the water in Detroit was safe to drink, have a look at the number of kids with Lead poisoning there, irreversible damage caused)

    2: We have paid through general taxation for years, and is the reason we have zero water poverty. I believe your man ‘Al Ca’ has the stat somewhere about how funding was reduced for our infrastructure (if you could help me out here ‘Al Ca’ )

    3: We saw the amount spent on consultations, water installations, over a billion wasted on the set up of jobs for the boys, WHERE WOULD WE BE NOW IF THIS WAS INVESTED IN THE PIPES?

    4: My stance against the company got stronger when I saw how hard the government were willing to fight against the water charges movement, using fear and bully tactics to scare others into paying

    5: Even if 100% paid the bills, it would just about cover the cost of billing the customers.

    *FEEL FREE TO INSERT YOUR REASON FOR NOT PAYING IRISH WATER BELOW*

    742
    Favourite Daffy the Bear
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    Mar 2nd 2016, 8:55 AM

    Mé féinism is not the issue. Paying a fair tariff for water usage and infrastructure improvements is also not a massive issue for most, despite the very valid point that water provision is paid for already. The problem is IW. This utility company was very obviously set up, at great expense to the taxpayer, with a view to future privatisation; once this happens, water charges will increase at the whim of the utility owner. Water is a basic human need for survival; as such, it should be a basic human right in a civilised society, not a saleable commodity.

    530
    Favourite Denito
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    Mar 2nd 2016, 9:01 AM

    Daffy: food is also a “basic human need for survival”. Should food also not be a “saleable commodity”?

    68
    Favourite Enda Ireland
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    Mar 2nd 2016, 9:03 AM

    No not a U turn more a left turn, followed by a left turn.

    267
    Favourite Denito
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    Mar 2nd 2016, 9:11 AM

    TTIP, there has been an awful lot of commentary that too much was spent on the set-up of IW, but has anyone actually ever done a detailed analysis of how much it should have cost? I haven’t seen one anyway.

    Also, all of the complaints about ‘consultants’ ignored the fact that these were actually IT people installing new systems, not management or advisory consultants. I’ve had experience of similar projects in the private sector and you are always talking tens of millions of euro for even a medium-scale set-up.

    As for the ‘privatisation’ idea – I have yet to see an explanation of how a single water utility could have been set up without some people believing it to be meant for privatisation apart from the nonsense idea of inserting something in the constitution.

    39
    Favourite Al Ca
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    Mar 2nd 2016, 9:21 AM

    Yes TTIP McGowan…….the spend on water infrastructure was reduced by FG from €1.2 billion to €475 million in 2011 after election to run down the service in order to sell the idea of IW. Standard tactical advice from the IMF in all countries that avail of a bailout to move toward privatisation.

    347
    Favourite MK76
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    Mar 2nd 2016, 9:25 AM

    So TTIP, I take it you’re a supporter of a “fairer” Ireland, right?

    Despite all your erroneous arguments, which have been played over and over again (including the BS fear mongering of the spectre of privatisation), tell me is it it fair to take €5bn out of the national coffers, money that could be put to good use elsewhere and have an impact on people’s lives who REALLY need it, to satisfy the greed and sense of entitlement of those who just don’t want to pay for anything?

    If that’s Ireland’s new definition of “fair”, then we are in bigger trouble than we think.

    And if FG do a u-turn on this to get into power, I won’t vote for them again.

    34
    Favourite Tony Skillington
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    Mar 2nd 2016, 9:32 AM

    Just shows that Irish politicians have very fluid principals..all that crap about protecting the quality of water and they’re prepared to drop it like a streaming turd just to get back to the trough.

    246
    Favourite TTIP McGowan
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    Mar 2nd 2016, 9:35 AM

    It’s mad, you put “fairer” in to sound condescending. But I’m a 25 year old male with friends leaving the country left right and center, I’ll never be able to buy a house, I see a growing homeless population, people jumping in rivers and the wealth gap getting bigger and bigger.

    But me, in a full time job, experiencing this in Ireland, is someone who doesn’t “want to pay for anything”.

    Your view is jarred, and I’ll never change it because we are two fundamentally different people. But I do hope one day you show compassion for the oppressed rather than the oppressors.

    390
    Favourite Joe Smith
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    Mar 2nd 2016, 9:39 AM

    And is it fair on people that really do pay already, private water schemes, wells etc ? Why should they subsidise others ?

    50
    Favourite TTIP McGowan
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    Mar 2nd 2016, 9:41 AM

    Nope, not fair Joe, but make sure you blame the right people in this situation.

    278
    Favourite Seamus Scott
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    Mar 2nd 2016, 9:41 AM

    We do pay already , 2/3 of the money for Irish water comes from Motor Tax , motorists around the country can see every day the appalling state of our roads as a result of these losses see the Dial committee report here http://youtu.be/jGhdjNX50-8

    244
    Favourite Al Ca
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    Mar 2nd 2016, 9:45 AM

    Of course Joe…..let’s stop fixing roads in the butt hole of nowhere….not enough people use them.

    138
    Favourite Seán Marlow
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    Mar 2nd 2016, 9:49 AM

    “€5bn that could go towards housing families or fixing the health system” mehole; it would go [is going] to bail out FF/FG/LP’s FFailed, Greedy banker pals.

    222
    Favourite MK76
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    Mar 2nd 2016, 9:50 AM

    Leave the amateur dramatics and whataboutery at the door TTIP and stick to the substantive point.

    Is it fair to take €5bn from our national coffers to pay for the upgrades required so that people can save €3 a week, money that could be used to support those who need it the most?

    25
    Favourite up3bs9LF
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    Mar 2nd 2016, 9:51 AM

    MK76 makes arguments based on the same tactic of fear the the parties use, tbh, this is the same fear that was used since 2007, in order for the political establishment to get it’s our way. I am around long enough to feel the effect of those preceeding years. The government must not be allowed to use the public the way it’s been doing no longer…

    197
    Favourite Seán Marlow
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    Mar 2nd 2016, 9:54 AM

    @OGJ “The protest parties failed in this election to properly categorise on a labour meltdown”.

    Oh but they categorised Labour very accurately: FFailures!

    111
    Mute Micheal S. O' Ceilleachair
    Favourite Micheal S. O' Ceilleachair
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    Mar 2nd 2016, 10:42 AM

    Maybe a “w” turn!!!

    49
    Favourite Matthew O' Reilly
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    Mar 2nd 2016, 12:09 PM

    You need to watch what your saying Diarmuid Lucey, SimonC oveney Is an Illuminati spy. He is under orders from Buildburger leaders like Henry the murderer Kissinger to keep track of low lives like you and me. Simon is Peter Goldman Sachs Sutherland apparent successor as Ireland’s representative at the Buildburger annual meetings on world business and politics, how to impoverish third world Nation politically disenfranchise inept people, who are too poor and ignorant to do anything about it.

    81
    Favourite Joe Smith
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    Mar 2nd 2016, 12:35 PM

    Al Ca, typical nonsense, roads in the “butt hole of nowhere” have very little up keep costs, no street lighting etc etc. Your argument is arrogant and insulting to people who really so pay for water. At the moment their is no incentive for people on water mains to conserve water, faulty ball cock, water running 24hrs a day, who cares. It’s should be charged for, perhaps a reasonable quota free and then charge but conservation should be encouraged through charging

    26
    Favourite John Joseph McDermott
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    Mar 2nd 2016, 12:57 PM

    You build houses in remote areas and dig wells.?
    So do you expect the local council to run in a free supply.?
    The ESB charge you for the cost of supplying your “one off” house, as do the Telecom companies.

    85
    Favourite Al Ca
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    Mar 2nd 2016, 1:07 PM

    Joe….I live in the butt hole of nowhere……your point?

    79
    Favourite Stephen Fitzgerald
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    Mar 2nd 2016, 1:26 PM

    Ah is it sore losers, the ‘non election issue is an election issue … even for FG lol anything to keep power. Look at Irish history it never changes

    102
    Favourite Richard Doherty
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    Mar 2nd 2016, 1:36 PM

    Fine gael need to go the way of labour

    114
    Favourite Dave cullen
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    Mar 2nd 2016, 2:01 PM

    If they want to stay on the gravy train they have to abolish this quango they’ve forced upon the people,the Fine Gael party have already taxed the family home,enough is enough!

    104
    Favourite Darren Redmond
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    Mar 2nd 2016, 2:05 PM

    They chose to live in the arsehole of no were?

    31
    Favourite An_Beal_Bocht
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    Mar 2nd 2016, 2:13 PM

    Local Authorities for years were crying out for capital funding of water projects but central government ignored it, they were happy to see it ran down. There is a whole infrastructure in place for supplying people on this island, its not perfect but it just needs investment. Irish Water was an attempt at an Accounting two hand trick – leveraging more debt on a public asset “off the books”! If they really cared about water supply then even the Greens suggestion of a River Basin District managing water would suffice but caring for public assets doesn’t get you votes unfortunately.

    74
    Favourite Richard Cynical
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    Mar 2nd 2016, 2:16 PM

    everyone but fg and lb ran with a promise of get tired of them, with lb being nonexistent, and with other parties learning a lesson by what happened to lb when they swapped their election promises for government, they will soon be down the drain and we’ll done to all those who went out in the cold and rain to protest against the hidden bank tax. pat yourselfs on the back

    54
    Favourite An_Beal_Bocht
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    Mar 2nd 2016, 2:18 PM

    Martino, I don’t agree, people who live in Scotand, Denmark, all of Scandanavia generally haven’t emigrated on the scale we have seen here. Their weather is colder but their standard of living is better. Simple. Make housing, health and education affordable and accessible then bingo you won’t have same level of people leaving. Whatever about going for a year or two, leaving your family behind for good is a huge wrench for emigrants who often have to live with the fact they won’t be around when their parents die. Think on that.

    84
    Favourite Fergal McDonagh
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    Mar 2nd 2016, 2:23 PM

    MK. Bs over privatisation??? What planet are you on?

    42
    Favourite For Connolly
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    Mar 2nd 2016, 2:40 PM

    Liveline audience poll results…80% not paying their next water bill

    https://soundcloud.com/rte-radio-1/liveline-four-out-of-five-wont-pay

    Bye bye water charges.

    94
    Favourite Rashers Tierney
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    Mar 2nd 2016, 2:47 PM

    Couldn’t agree more, TTIP. It is becoming increasingly obvious that the ‘deals’ have already been done – the MOU’s signed a long time ago – and the dudes that Indah and his shower have sold us out to probably won’t go away quietly, but will demand their pound of flesh. THAT is the reason for the solid refusal to grant a plebiscite on the issue, and the strong selling of the fallacy that “we’ve gone too far to turn back now”. That man should be in prison on this very day – not shiting on about ‘doing is duty to the Irish People by trying to form a Government’. I tell you, I’m getting angrier by the day at these liars and scammers.

    84
    Favourite An_Beal_Bocht
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    Mar 2nd 2016, 2:49 PM

    The privatisation is real and is happening already. The large scale sub-contracting of Local Authority services is privatisation by the back door. The concept of public service is slowly dying a death and Thatcher’s shadow is over it all.

    70
    Favourite Rashers Tierney
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    Mar 2nd 2016, 3:03 PM

    Oh Nooooooo! The return of the “substantive issue” MK76? Now I understand. By the way, your argument is totally fallacious and TTIP sees the issue clearly.

    44
    Favourite Rashers Tierney
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    Mar 2nd 2016, 3:09 PM

    By the way, folks. It seems that we will be put to another election after all, sooner rather than later. The continued presence of, shall we call them “the Government trolls” energetically pushing the same dishonest messages, would lead one to believe that they intend to press ahead with their utter folly, come what may. Perhaps big jobs in Europe and lucrative seats on boards are at stake? They should reflect that even Tony Blair was f*cked over by the EU after he had sold his people out – No European Presidency for Tony, aaaaah, dat was terrible.

    52
    Favourite Vera Floody
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    Mar 2nd 2016, 3:33 PM

    Fair deal for water @pr operty tax one fair bill just saying from a penisoner

    16
    Favourite John Joseph McDermott
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    Mar 2nd 2016, 3:56 PM

    Great news,”For Connolly”.
    The politicians all know that so few are paying that the tax is unenforceable.It was never structured with any kind of fairness in the first place.Just another imposition hurting low income families the most.
    This will be the first victory for non farmers.
    The people are coming together, so beware you greasy politicians,and fumble somewhere else for the money-dig it out of your “fiscal spaces”.!

    35
    Favourite AJ
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    Mar 2nd 2016, 4:16 PM

    its not the 3 eur per week, its the multiples of that when it is privatised, back to your bridge troll, this war is over, youve lost.

    52
    Favourite Ciaran Morgan
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    Mar 2nd 2016, 4:40 PM

    5 billion that would go towards paying private bank debt and noonan’s buddies mk76.
    Your facist blusahirt buddies got ther asses handed to them last week, ha ha.

    40
    Favourite Paudi Onail
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    Mar 2nd 2016, 4:45 PM

    how does it cost €7billion to dismantle something thats cost close to €1billion? Wheres the €6billion coming from? Also, if theyre coming up with that €7billion figure with no explanation as to how they go to that, does that include the refunds on all who paid to date? If it didnt, then theres some serious problems. They will not be able to dismantle it without refunding, otherwise they’ve got 50% uproar from those that have paid.

    €7billion? meh, thats BS.

    36
    Favourite Liam O Connor
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    Mar 2nd 2016, 7:24 PM

    Yes it is that’s why they have soup kitchens and penny dinners for people who can’t afford food any longer after the fleecing noonan has given people.

    24
    Favourite Marc Power
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    Mar 2nd 2016, 7:57 PM

    That dirt bag entitled insider Kenny and all the other vermin in government can go poig my a*se. ..

    21
    Favourite Marc Power
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    Mar 2nd 2016, 7:59 PM

    Old gabby…you’re so full if it your selfish self obsessed face must be brown by now

    13
    Favourite Stephen Brady
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    Mar 2nd 2016, 8:00 PM

    No MK people have a problem with being lied to by incompetent muppets taking the mick and giving our water to the likes of nestle to sell it back to us. So us a favour and don’t waste your time telling us it won’t be privatised. Even you couldn’t believe that one.

    23
    Favourite von
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    Mar 2nd 2016, 8:23 PM

    Old Gabby Don’t you dare suggest that i and many others work hard for their pay so don’t go shooting your mouth off because you paid. I didn’t pay and i wont until we have a referendum not to privatise IW. We’ve given enough away look at NAMA

    20
    Favourite von
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    Mar 2nd 2016, 8:32 PM

    Paudi they don’t know how to count either. Lol

    13
    Favourite von
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    Mar 2nd 2016, 8:37 PM

    *don’t work*

    6
    Favourite Seamus McSpud
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    Mar 2nd 2016, 9:15 PM

    You are having a laugh Edna my dear.
    Now toddle on back to the whiners in Castlebar, Co Mayo

    11
    Favourite William Bayle
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    Mar 2nd 2016, 10:31 PM

    Yea my point. Will we get tax break for pump filters etc … ?

    1
    Favourite William Bayle
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    Mar 2nd 2016, 10:41 PM

    Na I don’t want mucky water from councils thanks but since we already paid to dig wells , maintain them , get water tested in labs why should we pay for wasters who leave their tape running all night ? Charging by consumption sounds fair ! Same than gas electricity telecom …. What we don’t need is a badly ran quango made to be privatised IW . Water should remain Irish and that should be in the constitution but everyone should pay for its use .

    2
    Favourite Affinity
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    Mar 2nd 2016, 10:54 PM

    Kenny wants to give IW to DOB and he’ll get a plumb job on the private board. Just like biffo got.

    12
    Favourite James Delaney
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    Mar 3rd 2016, 12:26 AM

    The LPT is unfair – its an anti-Dublin tax where a basic house depending on location could be twice & up to 4times the price of a similar house outside Dublin.

    2
    Favourite James Delaney
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    Mar 3rd 2016, 12:32 AM

    @An-B-B – Yes they called it Outsourcing. The IW saga stinks to high heaven – with Min. Environment AK47s Brother & the man who cannot be named, involved – All pointing to Privatisation. The Gov. got what they deserved after treating the People dismally.

    3
    Favourite Edward Reid
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    Mar 3rd 2016, 12:52 AM

    Well the ppl that do use them shouldn’t be paying road tax in that case! Then again the road tax went to water setup anyway!

    1
    Favourite William Kelly
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    Mar 3rd 2016, 7:35 AM

    It is unfair that it is based on valuation, & the appropriate & equitable formula is size. The valuation basis was intended to build in a progressive inflation to the tax, but given the reaction to the pension levy, USC, & IW, this inflator has been frozen. This creates the option to cancel separate water charges, switch on the valuation inflator, & solve the collection issue, as revenue will stop it from whatever income.
    The next political agitation needs to be for LPT to be on home size, not value.For the home buyer, size is a predictable commitment, whereas valuation is unpredictable.

    1
    Favourite ciaran
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    Mar 3rd 2016, 9:40 AM

    MK and all the other fools who defend IW, go and read the IMF website for yourselves and see for yourselves why the IMF wanted IW, money to repay them and then privatisation in the IMF’s own words!
    glad to clear that joke of a bunch of excuses up for you

    1
    Favourite ciaran
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    Mar 3rd 2016, 9:43 AM

    FYI I think the issue of IW being discussed now is covering for the TTIP deal which as usual gets ignored by our media, lets call our elected MEP’s out journal it would make for a story worth reading
    who will admit they are for TTIP and who is totally against it followed by the usual opinion piece
    certain click bait

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