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Comment #4508598 by Arlette Lyons

Arlette Lyons Dec 1st 2015, 11:33 PM #

Senator Bradford I would ask you to read my personal story and then rethink your insensitive comments. This is about choice. Many women choose to continue and that is their choice which should be supported. Others feel it is best for their baby and for them and their family to end the pregnancy.
I have since gone on to have a beautiful little girl called Freya who was born with a cleft palate and many other issues. This is something that you and your party need to acknowledge the difference. Baby Skye 0% chance of Survival baby Freya born with special needs. Hope that you can understand the difference.

MARCH 5TH 2012
Myself and my husband were trying awhile to have our 3rd baby. We found out at Christmas time I was pregnant and were both thrilled as was our 8 year old and 5 year old boys.

At my 13 week scan the sonographer recognised there was some fluid around the baby’s head and asked me to call my husband, this is when I knew there was something badly wrong.

My husband arrived and we were sent to see the consultant. After an hour we went into the consultant room for a more detailed scan there we were told that the baby had a cystic hygromma and very likely to have a fatal chromosome abnormality.

We were told that our baby would either die in the uterus or die straight after birth but more likely I would miscarry before 20 weeks. We were told that baby would not live and that there was no hope. The consultant was amazing, compassionate, supportive and sympathetic.

I was offered a CVS procedure (which they can tell what the syndrome the baby has for 100%) which I excepted and we would have the results in 3 days.

I turned to the consultant expecting her to offer us an induced miscarriage or termination and I said so what now?

Her response was let nature take its course or you can go to Liverpool Womens Hospital to have a termination. To say we were shocked was understatement firstly to be told your baby has no chance then only to add to the pain that we would have to travel to Liverpool for help. We were devastated and so so angry that we could not receive the treatment we needed here in Ireland.

We waited for the results but I knew in my heart there was no hope. We received the results and the baby had trisomy 13 (pataus syndrome) which is a cruel horrific syndrome not deemed compatible with life.Our babies other organs had not developed correctly either This was the most devastating news we could have received..To walk around with your little baby growing inside you knowing that at any moment she could die is like being in a horror film. So frightening so devastating.
We were not going to allow our baby suffer, We were not going to allow our living boys suffer and finally I was not going to allow myself suffer a potential further 28 weeks. My suffering at the time was unbearable.

So we made the decision to travel to the women’s hospital Liverpool. The maternity Hospital gave us all the information we needed so myself and my mother made all the arrangements which was a heart breaking task and also having to leave our two boys behind and arrange for someone to take of them. My parents, husband and myself arrived on the Sunday evening and Monday morning I was brought in to have the termination.

The staff were very kind and tried to make the procedure less traumatic for us. I was put under GA. I left the hospital 3 hours later and we arrived back in Dublin heartbroken and devastated Monday night.

I can face the fact that this baby was never going to make it but I will never get over the fact that we had to leave the love and support of our family friends and the staff from the maternity hospital.

It was all very traumatic and extremely cruel to be sent to another country for the termination.
We were lucky to have access to the money as I know a lot wouldn’t. We wont ever forget the very much longed for loved baby that we lost which we named Skye and I plan to bury the scan photos with my granddad. But I will hold on to the anger of having to travel to another country to receive the help and treatment that we needed so badly at a horrible time in our lives.

I really hope the law changes here in Ireland and no other women or couple ever has to go through what we did.

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Read the article where this comment appeared:

Paul Bradford: "There are no such babies as babies with fatal foetal abnormalities"

Paul Bradford: "There are no such babies as babies with fatal foetal abnormalities"

The Senator said that there are babies with “life-limiting conditions”.

REPLIES

    Favourite Fiona deFreyne
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    Dec 1st 2015, 11:44 PM

    Arlette, I am so sorry to hear of your sad and tragic story. I’m appalled at the way in which our laws let down you down and how you had to go to Liverpool. Your story is the real story of the consequences of bad law which undermines good and humane medicine. Your story tells us the real truth. Thank you for telling your story in detail and with such sincerity.

    386
    Favourite Patricia Boland
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    Dec 1st 2015, 11:53 PM

    Sorry to read your story Arlette, I have great respect and admiration for you. Thankfully at last there’s a growing momentum for change on this matter.
    As I’ve often said, the option has to be there for women and couples to decide as they see fit in these tragic circumstances, termination is not the default option, despite what some might think.
    Anyone looking at this in a broad overall context would agree.

    240
    Favourite jon bonbon
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    Dec 2nd 2015, 12:11 AM

    You won’t get Paul, Tommy and all those other clowns commenting on your post, because it’s reality. Very brave to tell your story Arlette, thanks.

    281
    Favourite Keith
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    Dec 2nd 2015, 12:16 AM

    Bless you and your family. I have huge respect for you for telling your story.

    Hopefully the laws will change here to accommodate people in your situation one day. People will be inspired by stories like these to fuel the campaign.
    Much love.

    208
    Favourite Arlette Lyons
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    Dec 2nd 2015, 12:55 AM

    Thanks for all your lovely comments they do mean alot. Its so important for real people to tell their real stories and not the anecdotal stories that are often spewed from a friend of a friend of an uncle…. if you get me.
    Myself and all the other hard working campaigners from TFMR will not stop until we get this stopped.

    Some stories that are not public would send chills up your spine the cruelty, the barbaric treatment that some families have suffered would really outrage most. Whilst my personal story was extremely hard and unjust other couples have suffered much more pain and hopefully someday when they have healed somewhat they will be willing to share their nightmare with the people of Ireland. Much love to you Keith Jon Patricia and Fiona xxxxxxxx

    238
    Favourite Daisy Chainsaw
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    Dec 2nd 2015, 1:13 AM

    Arlette, I have so much respect for you given what you went through. You made the right decision for you. I have the same respect for women who decide to continue to the natural end of the pregnancy. I have no respect for those who deny choice, who dictate what women must do, regardless of the suffering of the mother who will never see her baby live beyond moments. There is no nobility in inflicting suffering on either the mother or the baby for some moral or religious reasons. Women choosing how to end a pregnancy should not be an external debate.

    217
    Favourite Arlette Lyons
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    Dec 2nd 2015, 1:19 AM

    Hi Paul I am a mum 2 boys 1 little girl with special needs and 1 little baby who we lost due to a FFA.
    I have a regular job a wonderful husband fabulous family and amazing friends.
    I went through a personal harrowing experience loosing our much wanted and much loved baby and sent away from my country to be treated with kindness and compassion in another country.
    I am fighting for women and families that are going through the same today tomorrow and next week. I only can give my experience, tell my story and fight for what I believe is a cruel injustice.
    And that is all I can do.

    I trust women and men and the medical experts to make the right choices for themselfs.

    265
    Favourite Bevin Reilly
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    Dec 2nd 2015, 2:41 AM

    Jesus Christ Paul. How valiant of you wanting to protect the rights of the unborn. Yet how ironic it is that you clearly lack the ability to show even the slightest a bit of compassion or respect for Arlette or other women in her situation.

    299
    Favourite Paul Roche
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    Dec 2nd 2015, 3:02 AM

    What Arlette went through can be explained by a failure of Government to legislate for TMFR.
    It cannot be explained by the existence of a constitutional provision that respects the right to life of the unborn.

    31
    Favourite Richard Cheney
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    Dec 2nd 2015, 6:05 AM

    *TFMR x 3 Paul,not surprised at your anti-woman stance,any excuse to have a go,I have my own conclusions about why.

    160
    Favourite Boyne Sharky
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    Dec 2nd 2015, 7:22 AM

    This is totally absurd, it’s up to suitably qualified medical professionals to define what is and is and is not a “fatal foetal abnormality”, asking a politician to define something is like trying to nail jelly to a wall. Impossible.
    If these fools can’t accept advice from suitably qualified professionals because it offends their religious sensibilities then they should be removed from office and THAT should be made law. My sincere sympathy and respect to those who have gone through what these men and our country refuses to recognise – so far.

    166
    Favourite helen
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    Dec 2nd 2015, 7:34 AM

    Paul didn’t your mother love you enough ? You are the worst form of attention seeker !

    91
    Favourite Kevin Slater
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    Dec 2nd 2015, 7:50 AM

    The constitution is a document, guidelines and is not holy writ. It must adapt if it is to reflect the will of the people, an informed and compassionate people

    42
    Favourite Kevin Slater
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    Dec 2nd 2015, 7:50 AM

    The constitution is a document, guidelines and is not holy writ. It must adapt if it is to reflect the will of the people, an informed and compassionate people

    87
    Favourite Richard
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    Dec 2nd 2015, 9:08 AM

    Paul, can you clarify whether or not you are a human being who experiences emotions like compassion?

    78
    Favourite John Ward
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    Dec 2nd 2015, 10:36 AM

    @Kevin Slater: Unfortunately, parts of the constitution read like “holy writ” and very often “the will of the people” is misinformed by politicians who seem to lack compassion.

    23
    Favourite Arlette Lyons
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    Dec 2nd 2015, 11:39 AM

    So in Short Paul you would be happy and very content with me to carry a dying baby for a possible 28 weeks.

    For you that is ok that I suffer nightmares knowing the little baby inside me was dying slowly.

    Its ok with you that my 5 year old and 8 year old little boys saw their mums belly growing with a little sister that they would never know or share their lives with.

    It is ok with that I try to continue my life with the fear and pain of carrying my loved baby inside who would have no chance.

    It is ok with you that at one stage I lay on my bathroom floor in sever pain thinking my baby had died at the point.

    It is ok with you that I had to travel in car to and from another country in pain and agony while watching the pain on my parents and husbands face seeing how I suffered.

    More importantly its ok with you that this is happening to families today tomorrow next week and will do so until our law changes.

    Your narcissistic trait is vile your lack of emphathy is obvious.

    But do you know what Paul thank your lucky stars that you will never have to experience such pain and grief.

    I am so at peace with my decision and I am proud that I did’nt allow may baby suffer not for one moment.

    115
    Favourite Kristine Wahl
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    Dec 2nd 2015, 12:25 PM

    @ Paul
    You seem happy enough that Ms Lyons could exercise her right by traveling elsewhere. Why does where a termination takes place make a difference?

    53
    Favourite Paul Roche
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    Dec 2nd 2015, 12:29 PM

    Because our jurisdiction is unique in it’s protection of the rights of the unborn.
    If you want to see that right to life removed, why bother with medical advances such as these:
    http://www.livescience.com/46578-future-fertility-treatments.html ?

    8
    Favourite Arlette Lyons
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    Dec 2nd 2015, 12:30 PM

    Paul I never realized you had access to my medical files.

    Paul my baby did not only have trisomy 13 she also had a large cystic hygromma and none of her organs had developed. Babies that survive a short while with t13 do so with medical intervention nothing natural about that.
    My baby would of suffered I was not going to allow that to happen.

    I dont want or expect your sympathy I get that from my loved ones.

    You keep going on to the “right of the life of the unborn ” at what cost Paul for a couple of moments of pain? why?
    I watched a video of a little baby born with t13 their parents videoed his short life he lived for 3 days and they willed him to die it was heartbreaking. They wanted him to be at peace. My baby never suffered.

    85
    Favourite junior85
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    Dec 2nd 2015, 12:32 PM

    “Swayed”. Get a grip, man!

    21
    Favourite Paul Roche
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    Dec 2nd 2015, 12:38 PM

    Arlette,
    On the one hand we develop genetic techniques so that FFAs can be minimised while you think it’s progress to remove the right to life of the unborn?
    Live is cruel. So is destroying it.

    Yes.
    Swayed.

    10
    Favourite junior85
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    Dec 2nd 2015, 12:42 PM

    You actual disgust me to dare to use that word in the face if everything Arlette has tried to share with you. May you never end up in a similar situation.

    41
    Favourite Arlette Lyons
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    Dec 2nd 2015, 12:45 PM

    “Destroying it ” are you for real.
    I would rather end my babies life then watch my baby suffer even for one moment, to fulfill my needs.

    What a cruel comment Paul
    I wont be interacting you any longer you are a cruel person.

    How ironic that you want to save all the unborn babies I suspect your actions and comments are disingenuous, I cant take you seriously.

    78
    Favourite Kristine Wahl
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    Dec 2nd 2015, 12:49 PM

    @Paul
    Outline for me in what unique, practical way Ireland protects the life of the unborn. You can start with the constitutional right to travel to other jurisdictions for abortions with no legal repercussions upon return, the lack of investigation into the import of illegal abortion medication and the total lack of interest in the bus that traveled through the country with abortion medication.

    25
    Favourite Marc Power
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    Dec 2nd 2015, 12:59 PM

    Arlette….you are a brave and inspirational person to be open and public about such a traumatic experience in your life. Like a lot of people on here I wish you and your family well after this experience. I am personally of the opinion that certain people and organisations have way to much time on their hands and spend a lot of their time busying themselves with the business of others. It should be your own decision as to whether you choose to terminate a difficult or unplanned for pregnancy regardless of the reasons and not up to characters such as Paul commenting on here. As quite frankly it’s non of his business

    38
    Favourite Richard
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    Dec 2nd 2015, 1:14 PM

    You will address me by my proper title, ya little bo**ox.

    I’ll also take your answer as a no.

    I support Eugenics no more than your argument that I do is logically valid. Ever heard of a slippery slope? Do you understand why they are logically fallacious?

    It’s pragmatics – a dozen women a day are forced to travel (though after the ruling in Belfast, hopefully not nearly as far in future) to undergo a procedure which is always the option of last resort and never one elected lightly. I can’t speak from experience, but I imagine that in the the case of FFA, it’s often an almost pro-life choice – born out of the desire to try again at bringing a child into the world.

    This is entirely an argument about choice. Your position is that you should be the one to choose what is right for responsible, autonomous, educated adults to do.

    As for license to kill – Savita is one instance that immediately springs to mind where the religiously motivated 8th Amendment has directly resulted in death. There are, I’m sure, others.

    37
    Favourite Carmel Gill
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    Dec 2nd 2015, 1:37 PM

    Arlette your story is so so sad. I cried reading it. How anyone can read yours and hundreds of other heartbreaking stories and still argue that termination in these circumstances is wrong is beyond me. You’re so brave.

    25
    Favourite kevin windle
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    Dec 2nd 2015, 1:40 PM

    Hi Arlette. As someone who regards himself as “pro-life”, I was very touched by your story and would like to point out that not everyone who has serious reservations about abortion agrees with some of the opinions you have been arguing against on this forum. I would have no problem legislating to give a choice to people in your circumstances as I reckon I would have wanted to do exactly the same. The concern I have is that there is a huge difference between the situation you were faced with and some of the other protagonists in the “repeal the 8th” camp like Claire Daly who just wants abortion on demand. As your case shows, it is an incredibly complex area which can’t be solved with simple platitudes like “repeal the 8th”. I sincerely hope that your case is not used by others in pursuit of their agendas. I wish you all the best for the future.

    19
    Favourite Paul Roche
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    Dec 2nd 2015, 1:54 PM

    Dick,
    Savita died as a result of medical misadventure.
    When I question the existence of Medical Council Guidelines, the comments are removed.
    Enjoy your outrage.

    As far as I’m concerned, Kevin Windle has hit the nail on the head.

    9
    Favourite Kristine Wahl
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    Dec 2nd 2015, 2:42 PM

    Really, Paul, you won’t answer my question because your posts get removed, yet you post to others on the same thread?

    15
    Favourite Paul Roche
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    Dec 2nd 2015, 2:56 PM

    Sorry Kristine,
    I gave some priority to Richard, ya little bolloxs post.

    4
    Favourite Kristine Wahl
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    Dec 2nd 2015, 3:12 PM

    What do you mean, priority? Either there is a point for you to post or there is no point that you do. Well, seeing as you could respond to my last post, perhaps you can respond to the other one too

    12
    Favourite All Aboard To China
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    Dec 2nd 2015, 4:15 PM

    This Roche guy is a right sc-um-bag. He’s as bad as those Iona animals

    18
    Favourite Paul Roche
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    Dec 2nd 2015, 5:10 PM

    You mean the question where you ignored my response or the one where you demanded an essay, Kristine?

    2
    Favourite Kristine Wahl
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    Dec 2nd 2015, 5:21 PM

    You need to write a whole essay to outline all the practical ways Ireland protects the life of the unborn? Surely a few lines should suffice.

    I have no idea what fertility treatment has got to do with removing/retaining the 8th, maybe another thing you could outline for me. Just the short version, no essay

    10
    Favourite Jessie Andrea
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    Dec 2nd 2015, 6:11 PM

    Oh my God I can’t cope! Leave this woman alone and keep your negative comments to yourself – so unnecessary! You’re entitled to whatever opinion – but no need to have a go at a woman you’ve never met over something that didn’t affect you directly! What is your problem! No need!! Embarrassed for you!

    18
    Favourite Paul Roche
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    Dec 2nd 2015, 9:12 PM

    My concern is that a rare medical syndrome is being floated as a reason for motivating people to remove the right to life of the unborn.
    Abortion on demand would be a far greater tragedy than legislating for uncommon syndromes.

    4
    Favourite Kristine Wahl
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    Dec 2nd 2015, 9:24 PM

    @Paul
    How’s the outlining of the practical ways Ireland is protecting the unborn going?

    6
    Favourite Mick Rick Jones
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    Dec 2nd 2015, 9:25 PM

    Quess what ? almost 200,000 little unborn babies were aborted to death last year in the British abortion clinics you speak so highly of. Compassionate eh?

    Very few had FFA.
    Most were lunchtime, convenience, social, abortions, of the type that the well funded Irish pro abortion lobby want on street corners here. And who can say whether an FFA baby will live or not, or for how long?

    Er, not much of your “kindness and compassion” there in those abortion clinics. Just death by abortion for unborn babies, and no “choice” there for them.

    Their mothers do have a choice, their aborted babies don’t –ever. They always die in abortion.

    Interesting too, how the pro abortion lobby use tragic cases (like Savitas) to push their abortion on demand agenda.

    Sorry for your tragic babys loss. Its a pity the pro abortion lobby exploit tragic cases like yours. Thats why they want to destroy the life saving 8th Amendment, to push their abortion on demand agenda, cynically using tragic cases like yours (and Savitas) to do it.

    Save the unborn from UK style abortion by booting pro abort politicians and media campaigners out.

    5
    Favourite Mick Rick Jones
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    Dec 2nd 2015, 9:34 PM

    great. it’s called the 8th Amendment.

    It stops pro abortion “feminist” (and other) political loonies from imposing UK style abortion on Ireland.
    — which is why pro aborts want to destroy the 8th.

    You should try it.
    So should other nations who are tired of negative population growth and the ritual aborting to death of their unborn innocent young.

    Hand up all who alive in Ireland today because the 8th kept abortion clinics conveniently off the streets, unlike the UK with 200,000 abortions per year now,and they don’t have the 8th.

    4
    Favourite Mick Rick Jones
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    Dec 2nd 2015, 10:12 PM

    Are you in favour of women having a choice about aborting their baby in any pregnancy as they wish, on demand?

    4
    Favourite Richard Cheney
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    Dec 2nd 2015, 10:21 PM

    Pray to Jesus Mick, at least he might listen to your insane ramblings, LOL!

    12
    Favourite Renee Barrett
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    Dec 5th 2015, 11:54 AM

    I am terribly sorry for you Arlette. I had four miscarriages. I would dearly love to have a grave to visit. If l could have felt the little babies kicking in my womb it would have been a great consolation. I wonder were women better off when there was no ultrasound? What one does not know does not hurt one or one’s helpless infant. I don’t have any children. We planted an oak tree. It will grow big and strong. It will be there when we are all gone. God bless. We live in a cruel world. Life is unfair. It was ever thus. Anyone blessed with children should thank God every day.

    1
    Favourite Mick Rick Jones
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    Dec 13th 2015, 4:28 PM

    yes indeed, abortion is SUCH a compassionate act isnt it ?? (not).

    I mean, abortion only kills unborn human lives in their mothers womb, where they should be loved, nurtured and protected against harm.

    Instead, your “compassionate ” abortion kills that life. For ever.

    3
    Favourite Hugh O'Rourke
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    Jan 7th 2017, 11:12 AM

    @Richard: Compassion for the disadvantaged baby?

    1
    Favourite Mick Rick Jones
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    Jan 8th 2017, 7:41 PM

    @Hugh O’Rourk : when did killing a baby by abortion deliberately and knowingly become “compassionate” ? It isn’t. Not for that dead aborted baby or their mothers, cynically conned by looney ideological lefty pro aborts, into “choice” as they grieve their dead lost baby. Both deserve our compassion and support, not death by abortion.

    Repeal of the 8th will mean dead aborted babies. Interesting to see a Cit Assem speaker admitting that Icelands abortion laws, which pro aborts propose here, means that there are hardly any Downs people alive there.

    Think on that next time u see a Downs person and hear a pro abortion anti 8th advocating their death by “choice”.

    2
    Favourite Mick Rick Jones
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    Jan 8th 2017, 7:47 PM

    @Kristine Wahl: killing them by abortion which removing the 8th would usher in, is a sure way of taking life Kristine.

    Keeping the 8th protects life. Vote pro abortion politicians out of office is also good. Identifying and boycotting pro abortion journalists and media is also good.

    2
    Favourite Kristine Wahl
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    Jan 8th 2017, 9:00 PM

    @Mick Rick Jones:
    The 8th does not protect life, it protects Irish soil from having abortions performed on it, well almost.

    1
    Favourite Hugh O'Rourke
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    Jan 8th 2017, 11:22 PM

    @Kristine Wahl: When you consider the numbers of babies killed each year in England, the 8th Amendment saves at least 12,000 lives each year.

    Were the Eighth Amendment to be deleted, the Irish laws could be expected to follow the English pattern as the Minister for Children (I kid you not) favours such a legal regime. With a population a bit less than ten per cent of the UK figures, we could confidently project a killing rate of c. 16,000 p.a. compared to the 200,000 approx in England / Wales.

    The current figures due to the lack of on-the-spot business promotion of killing babies in Ireland stands at somewhere between three and four thousand.

    No Down Syndrome baby has been legally killed in Ireland to date. Were the law to follow the English pattern the current rate quoted of 30 deaths in 2015 could be expected to quickly double.

    Killing unborn babies is a fashion imposed on women by selfish, uncaring men who are approved by society closing it’s eyes to the abuse. The 2017 replacement for Magdalen Laundries, is the killing of the unborn child. George Soros funding the Amnesty travesty of “human rights” is good evidence of the importance of baby killing to big business. The term “Abortion” is a euphemism to overcome natural revulsion at the reality of killing defenceless humans.

    I have no judgement or condemnation for the women caught up in the tragedy imposed by our society’s criminally uncaring response to their needs. They need support and compassion no condemnation to be rid of their child to save society the embarrassment of a Nation incapable of cherishing all children equally after one hundred years.

    1
    Favourite Kristine Wahl
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    Jan 9th 2017, 10:36 AM

    @Hugh O’Rourke:
    Considering you have no idea at all how many Irish women have illegal abortions in Ireland every year, nor any idea how many travel to jurisdictions that don’t provide Ireland with statistics, you have no basis for your claim.

    You don’t judge women? Yet you claim abortion is imposed on them by men as if if they have no agency themselves? Right

    1
    Favourite Mick Rick Jones
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    Jan 15th 2017, 9:23 PM

    @Kristine Wahl: Oh right, Kris, if the babies were aborted to death in Ireland that would be better for all of us, would it. Wrong. Abortion kills human lifes anywhere – they always end up dead.

    Making abortion more convenient as you advocate, means more dead babies — with no choice and no voice for them. And the abortionist profit.

    The 8th prevents that and saves unborn lives. Pro aborts want it removed, with UK style 200,000 aborted dead per year as a result.

    Interesting how our home grown abortion pushers NEVER ever mention the living humanity of the children in the womb, whom they want aborted in the name of “choice” and “womens bodily integrity”.

    Such lying, PC double talk to hide the bloody, deadly reality of killing unborn babies by abortion. These ghouls will come to kill the elderly, handicapped and sick next.

    3
    Favourite Hugh O'Rourke
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    Jan 15th 2017, 11:16 PM

    @Mick Rick Jones: Your are so very correct. Already evidence was given at the Citizen Assembly of fifty down Syndrome persons killed following identification tests in Ireland. Denmark boasts that NO Down Syndrome people will be born there in a few years from now. Society is the force and we have the power to affirm our society as a loving caring one. (Down Syndrome is not fatal and the pro killing people should give up the pretence of campaigning on hard cases only. The TRUTH will out.

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