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Dublin: 9 °C Friday 16 November, 2018

Comment #7342639 by brendan fitzsimons

brendan fitzsimons Jul 3rd 2018, 8:31 PM #

Way past time.

And we should give Israel a month to cease building new settlements before we impose a total trade embargo.

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Read the article where this comment appeared:

Fianna Fáil to support trade ban with lands held by Israel, but embassy calls it 'immoral'

Fianna Fáil to support trade ban with lands held by Israel, but embassy calls it 'immoral'

The Embassy of Israel said the boycott will not facilitate Ireland’s role or influence in the Middle East.

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    Favourite Judean
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    Jul 3rd 2018, 8:32 PM

    @brendan fitzsimons: There is nothing illegal about settlements. People need to educate themselves

    77
    Favourite Ron O'Keefe
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    Jul 3rd 2018, 8:36 PM

    @brendan fitzsimons: Who’s we?

    34
    Favourite brendan fitzsimons
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    Jul 3rd 2018, 8:38 PM

    @Judean: Nope, they are not only illegal but immoral – the Israelis need to pull out of them and and also withdraw behind the Green Line.

    After that we can start to discuss long-term future of Palestine and the position of Israel within it.

    73
    Favourite brendan fitzsimons
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    Jul 3rd 2018, 8:38 PM

    @Ron O’Keefe: Ireland.

    20
    Favourite The Risen
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    Jul 3rd 2018, 8:41 PM

    @Judean: It is illegal to settle occupied territory. Article 49 of the fourth Geneva convention covers it.

    As outlined on the Red Cross’s website….

    http://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/documents/atrocity-crimes/Doc.33_GC-IV-EN.pdf

    ‘It is unlawful under the Fourth Geneva Convention for an occupying power to transfer parts of its own population into the territory it occupies. This means that international humanitarian law prohibits the establishment of settlements, as these are a form of population transfer into occupied territory. Any measure designed to expand or consolidate settlements is also illegal. Confiscation of land to build or expand settlements is similarly prohibited. ‘

    59
    Favourite The Risen
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    Jul 3rd 2018, 8:43 PM
    35
    Favourite Judean
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    Jul 3rd 2018, 8:58 PM

    @The Risen: it’s a neat trick to use the Red Cross website as it mentions “settlements”; however it really just highlights that international law does not mention settlements. Settlements are not illegal in themselves as they aren’t a legal entity, it’s impossible to speak about them as a unit as the prohibition in international law is on the transfer of civilians by the government.

    Why would Israel withdraw to the green line? Israel and Jordan already agreed the green line was not in “any way a border or territorial boundary” so why would Israel have to withdraw to it!?

    32
    Favourite Ivan Connolly
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    Jul 3rd 2018, 9:46 PM

    @Judean: how is it not illegal to take the land and homes from a group of people under occupation and make it available for members of your own population. That is not only an illegal act but an immoral one. Israel has responsibilities to those people who’s land it is occupying and fencing pieces of it off bit by bit and giving it to their own citizens is a crime against the Palestinians. As much as you may seek legitimacy in the semantics of the conventions you are quoting, there is no defence for Israels actions and we should, late as it is, make some real show of our disapproval by actions such as this bill.

    54
    Favourite Judean
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    Jul 3rd 2018, 10:08 PM

    @Ivan Connolly: I agree with your sentiment and agree with much of it in principle. The problem is that under the Oslo accords (a treaty which granted Palestinians self government for the first time in history) the Geneva conventions no longer apply; they are wartime conventions only. They cannot be stretched out to fit a particular agenda, and yet that is what most people do.

    In addition under the treaty Israelis are allowed to live in Area C; end of, there is no debate about it. Most transactions of land are private, which again are not covered by the conventions.

    There are demonstrable examples of Israel taking Russian immigrants and transferring them to the West Bank, outside of that there is little to demonstrate Israel violating the conventions.

    It does upset me that territory of the European Union in northern Cyprus now has a majority “settler” population yet no one cares. Why? Because they expelled all the Greeks, Israel is a victim of its own humanitarianism by allowing people to remain in the areas it legally retook.

    20
    Favourite Ron O'Keefe
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    Jul 3rd 2018, 10:29 PM

    @brendan fitzsimons: A total trade embargo from Ireland? Yep, that’ll learn ‘em.

    11
    Favourite Gerard Smith
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    Jul 3rd 2018, 11:21 PM

    @Judean: peddle your shite somewhere else. Israeli behaviour is nothing more than a land grab. Many people and the Israeli government themselves try to twist the argument to make it sound like the people who protest their actions are anti Jewish. I’m not anti Jewish. I’m anti robbing people’s land, barricading them in essemtially a prison with no control over their resources, goods coming in, 3rd world healthcare, little or no access in and out of their territories. Performing raid after raid in the middle of the night on houses where families are living. They have bombed the area into the stone age and destroyed huge amounts of infrastructure. Enough is enough. Countries must start demonstrating that if Israel wants to behave like this then there are repercussions other than hand wringing and every UN proposal being vetoed by the US. It may only be a small action but it is a start. Their actions are completely immoral and no amount of obfuscation over a text will change that. There’s a reason why so many countries have an axe to grind with Israel and it’s not because their Jewish. It’s because their behaviour is scandalous.

    50
    Favourite Native
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    Jul 3rd 2018, 11:22 PM

    @brendan fitzsimons:

    You speak for yourself, you don’t speak for Ireland.

    12
    Favourite Dumb as a Rock Mika
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    Jul 3rd 2018, 11:36 PM

    @Gerard Smith: Are you the internet police, Gerard? This is an open forum, if you don’t like that you can leave…

    12
    Favourite Gerard Smith
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    Jul 3rd 2018, 11:55 PM

    @Dumb as a Rock Mika: and I am perfectly entitled to say what I did. Works both ways.

    17
    Favourite Dumb as a Rock Mika
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    Jul 4th 2018, 12:13 AM

    @Gerard Smith: You told him to “Peddle your shite somewhere else”…

    That’s what I was responding to. I’m not suggesting you are not entitled to say what you want. If you don’t like what he is saying you have two options:

    1. You can debate him
    2. You can ignore him and leave.

    Ordering him to leave is not an option…

    12
    Favourite Gerard Smith
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    Jul 4th 2018, 12:20 AM

    @Dumb as a Rock Mika: but calling people “n-zi sc-m” is okay. I’ll be sure to take guidance from the paragon of virtue that you are in the future!

    15
    Favourite Dumb as a Rock Mika
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    Jul 4th 2018, 12:30 AM

    @Gerard Smith: I didn’t call you that. I called the “na-zi sc-um” that. And only after he personally insulted me first. That’s the issue with all these “tolerant liberals” these days. They enter a debate by personally insulting someone. When that person responds in kind, they moan about it.

    I didn’t personally insult you Gerard. Because we were just having a discussion of views.

    I also called out that other Jew hater Edna Car….did you read his comment? Where was your outrage at that?

    11
    Favourite Dumb as a Rock Mika
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    Jul 4th 2018, 1:07 AM

    @Gerard Smith: Oh I see now, you weren’t outraged at Endas comment. You were outraged at me for calling out his comment.

    I think we are done here…

    7
    Favourite Judean
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    Jul 4th 2018, 7:07 AM

    @Gerard Smith: if the League of Nations mandate didn’t exist, your rant there might make sense.

    8
    Favourite Judean
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    Jul 4th 2018, 8:57 AM

    @Dumb as a Rock Mika: Don’t waste your breath, he hasn’t engaged in constructive debate because he can’t

    5
    Favourite Mark McDermott
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    Jul 4th 2018, 11:10 AM

    @Judean: They are illegal stop stop with the waffling.

    9
    Favourite Paul McDonald
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    Jul 4th 2018, 3:23 PM

    @brendan fitzsimons: Even if the were illigal, (which they are not), Israel pulled out of Gaza in 2005, and left green houses and the synagogues there to be used by the palestinians for agriculture, and mosques, the pallys did what muslims do best, destroyed everything and Israel got rockets and mortals on its communities in the South for its reward. They are not goin got be that stupid again. Heres a quote from a Russian news paper regarding it occupation of countries it took after WW11. ” A people which has been attacked, has defended itself and wins wars, is bound by sacred duty to establish for itself in perpetuity a political situation which will ensure the liquidation of the sources of aggression. It is entitled to maintain a state of affairs as long as the danger of aggression does not cease. A nation which has attained security at the cost of numerous victims, will never agree to the restoration of the privious boarders. No territories are to be returned as long as the danger of aggression still prevails. Pravada sep 2nd 1964. Israel gained security at the loss of meny men and women in many wars, our numbered, out trained and out gunned and they still won. So long as Hamas, the PA and the Arab world keep calling for Jewish blood and the anniahlation of Israel, they will, and rightly so, protect themselve s and their people at all costs, any nation would, and do, and no one says boo to them, unless its Israel, but then, it jew hatred plain and simple, isn’t it.

    4
    Favourite Denis McClean
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    Jul 5th 2018, 12:13 PM

    @Paul McDonald: Lot of whataboutery there. The subject is Occupied Palestine, so called as a result of countless of UN resolutions that even the US couldn’t veto. Let’s stick with the program. BDS is the only solution that the US can’t veto. It needs to go global..

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