Advertisement
This site uses cookies to improve your experience and to provide services and advertising. By continuing to browse, you agree to the use of cookies described in our Cookies Policy. You may change your settings at any time but this may impact on the functionality of the site. To learn more see our Cookies Policy.
OK
Dublin: 15 °C Thursday 27 June, 2019

Comment #4555463 by Amy Gaffney

Amy Gaffney Dec 15th 2015, 10:39 AM #

There are so many good men out there and especially in this country, I’d hate for any of you to think that these videos and movements are directed at you rather than the minority of men who think it’s OK to manhandle a woman. My husband, brothers, father, uncles, friends would all never dream of doing it but that being said, there have been times when I’ve been on a night out and complete strangers have felt they were within their rights to “cop a feel” while I’ve been dancing or standing at the bar or even outside the nightclub while waiting on my husband. And when I rejected them I was called unsavoury names such as tramp or frigid etc etc.This is directed at them, not you. Thanks for being one of the many good ones :-)

| Share | Report this comment

Read the article where this comment appeared:

WATCH: Unborn girl urges father to help stop rape culture

WATCH: Unborn girl urges father to help stop rape culture

One in three women will experience physical or sexual violence in their lifetime, usually from a male partner.

REPLIES

    Favourite Amy Gaffney
    Hide Comment
    Report as Defamatory
    Report this Comment
    Dec 15th 2015, 10:39 AM

    There are so many good men out there and especially in this country, I’d hate for any of you to think that these videos and movements are directed at you rather than the minority of men who think it’s OK to manhandle a woman. My husband, brothers, father, uncles, friends would all never dream of doing it but that being said, there have been times when I’ve been on a night out and complete strangers have felt they were within their rights to “cop a feel” while I’ve been dancing or standing at the bar or even outside the nightclub while waiting on my husband. And when I rejected them I was called unsavoury names such as tramp or frigid etc etc.This is directed at them, not you. Thanks for being one of the many good ones :-)

    213
    Favourite Peter Buchanan
    Hide Comment
    Report as Defamatory
    Report this Comment
    Dec 15th 2015, 10:40 AM

    Well said, John R, I believe that you speak for the overwhelming majority of Irish men.

    133
    Favourite Ladude
    Hide Comment
    Report as Defamatory
    Report this Comment
    Dec 15th 2015, 10:47 AM

    As a man I have had the same thing Happen to me with women in night clubs bar name calling !! I remember seen a women kick a guy in the nuts and everybody cheering, or the classic pouring of the drink over the head, or the classic flirt with a guy for the night so he buys you drink act. You’re not like that are you Amy are you one of the good ones too ? If so thanks for being one of the good ones

    139
    Favourite gastrophase
    Hide Comment
    Report as Defamatory
    Report this Comment
    Dec 15th 2015, 11:03 AM

    John R if you’re a decent man then kudos to you and please pass it on your family members!

    It’s really about situations like that recent Dublin case where five boys had sex with a young girl who was incapacitated by drink at a house party. Middle class boys apparently. What on earth could have taught them that it’s a good idea and she wanted it? Not school, not parents, so what kind of culture are they living in? Surely all five can’t be psychopaths? Trying to get at the answer and to prevent it happening again is what this is about.

    115
    Favourite Le Lapin Noir
    Hide Comment
    Report as Defamatory
    Report this Comment
    Dec 15th 2015, 11:07 AM

    Speaking as a man who would never be involved in the type of behaviour spoken about in these campaigns I find them enormously offensive and just switch off. If these type of campaigns were directed at almost any other group in society there would be an uproar. Other men I’ve spoken to also regard them as ideology driven and offensive. If these are actually meant to have an effect on their supposed target audience, a serious rethink is needed.

    114
    Favourite Joanna
    Hide Comment
    Report as Defamatory
    Report this Comment
    Dec 15th 2015, 11:16 AM

    Lapin, if you’re not that kind of person that means you can help. Discourage this kind of behaviour whenever you see it. We might probably never 100% eradicate instances of sexism but we can reduce them by promoting zero tolerance towards perpetrators.

    57
    Favourite Le Lapin Noir
    Hide Comment
    Report as Defamatory
    Report this Comment
    Dec 15th 2015, 11:26 AM

    In fairness, I do and while I know it’s anecdotal overtly sexist behaviour generally isn’t tolerated by most men I know. But that gets away from the point. No one (or nearly no one) should have a problem with the objective of these campaigns but the means in which they are presented needs a lot of work. Toning down the ideology might mean the campaigns actually engage with their target audience.

    58
    Favourite Amy Gaffney
    Hide Comment
    Report as Defamatory
    Report this Comment
    Dec 15th 2015, 11:29 AM

    No ladude, I’m not like that, nor do I condone it. It’s really not a tit for tat debate I’m trying to get into here. I just posted my own experiences on the topic of the article while acknowledging that these men are a minority. I never once led anyone on for drinks or otherwise, as already noted I’m married and my husband has been witness to some of the incidents. He once came out of a nightclub to find a man shoving me up against a railing and trying to drag me down the alleyway while the bouncers ignored my cries for help. I’m still so thankful he walked out when he did. That’s the type of arsehole I’m talking about, not you or any of the other decent men on this thread or in this country. They are a minority, but they’re out there.

    71
    Favourite Joanna
    Hide Comment
    Report as Defamatory
    Report this Comment
    Dec 15th 2015, 11:31 AM

    Then what would you suggest? How do women speak about their experiences without offending all men everywhere?

    60
    Favourite Eva Maria
    Hide Comment
    Report as Defamatory
    Report this Comment
    Dec 15th 2015, 11:39 AM

    I am a strong independant woman, i like the girl in this video have experienced the perfect relationship with the perfect man, after 3 years of the perfect relationship he choked me. I knew it was wrong, but what horrified me was that my family, his family and friends forgave him, because he was a decent guy, funny, good looking, popular – and he said he wouldnt do it again. I watched as he asked my dad for forgiveness bawling his eyes out about how sorry he was, i watched as my dad forgave him and i have never forgiven my dad. I was too young, too nice and too confused to know what to do. We stayed together a further 3 years because he was a master at manipulation, his public persona was a complete contrast to his home persona, but people knew.. and let it go on. it was only when we moved away from the acceptance of his behaviour that I had the courage to leave him. I am a victim, not you – please do not make this about you. I know of at least 4 people who have been raped but did not report it because no matter what if you are drunk it is seen as in some way your fault. I have been in at least 2 situations which if I hadn’t had the sense to get out of god know what would have happened, one a taxi driver, one a guy i know. The title is misleading, we do not have a rape culture, and have some very decent men in this country – but know this, as a girl, I know and my friends know, for every 5 good guys there is a bad apple, so stop laughing at his jokes – laughter is acceptance, that is all this video is trying to achieve, stop the tolerance of slut shaming and derogatory terms used for woman.. because it is us who pay for it.

    134
    Favourite gastrophase
    Hide Comment
    Report as Defamatory
    Report this Comment
    Dec 15th 2015, 11:42 AM

    Le Lapin Noir did you actually see the ad? It is “toned down” it does not speak of “all men”, it says that a girl has a huge chance to encounter such behaviour going through her life from boys and men around her, and that to teach them early that it’s not right can help with that. Some of them are just never taught, or whatever small amount of knowledge they have is overridden by conflicting media content. Even the fact the parent pin “safety talk” on his sister and not him makes a difference.

    I was certainly subject to a lot of low level abuse when I was a girl, I was groped in public twice, had nasty things said to me a good few times and my life was probably sheltered anyway as I avoided assaults which my friends could not avoid… This ad rings true when I think back to my school years.

    58
    Favourite Le Lapin Noir
    Hide Comment
    Report as Defamatory
    Report this Comment
    Dec 15th 2015, 11:47 AM

    By not presuming all men are offenders or potential offenders. I’ve had some pretty bad experiences myself (in one case quite a serious assault but I won’t go into detail here) but I’m not looking at the perpetrators through a prism of identity politics. It may not be the intention, but the campaigns by focusing almost exclusively on men’s presumed ills as a gender will (whatever the rights or wrongs of gender and identity politics which is a whole other debate) alienate a large percentage of the target audience. Unfortunately this means the message which in itself it highly worthwhile, is lost.

    39
    Favourite Amy Gaffney
    Hide Comment
    Report as Defamatory
    Report this Comment
    Dec 15th 2015, 11:48 AM

    Eva I’m so sorry to hear that, but I’m glad you got out. It’s true what you say about rape statistics too, of my circle of immediate friends, only one was never sexually assaulted to some degree. But none have ever gone to the guards, because what’s the point? Even if there is a conviction (unlikely), rapists and assaulters tend to get suspended or lenient sentences here. It’s actually a shame we don’t speak more to our male friends and family about these things so they could realise that it does happen much more than they think. It could be one guy who assaults or intimidates 20 girls but that’s 20 experiences not 20 guys. Just one.

    64
    Favourite Joanna
    Hide Comment
    Report as Defamatory
    Report this Comment
    Dec 15th 2015, 11:52 AM

    We know not all men are offenders. You mistakenly assume otherwise. We’re asking non offenders for support, that’s all.

    51
    Favourite Lorem Ipsum
    Hide Comment
    Report as Defamatory
    Report this Comment
    Dec 15th 2015, 11:58 AM

    We know not all women make false accusations. We don’t expect the majority to police the minority that do. And we certainly don’t make videos encouraging them to

    57
    Favourite Joanna
    Hide Comment
    Report as Defamatory
    Report this Comment
    Dec 15th 2015, 11:58 AM

    Wow dude. Just wow.

    42
    Favourite Eva Maria
    Hide Comment
    Report as Defamatory
    Report this Comment
    Dec 15th 2015, 12:02 PM

    Thank you Amy, its the first time I’ve ever really spoken about it apart from to very close friends, I cried my eyes out when watching that video and even more so on the comments about the guys up in arms defending themselves, as I said there are so many decent guys, but men do need to look and see what goes on around us every day and not turn the blind eye anymore. I actually can’t understand how I’ve gotten thumbs down… it just reinforces my point – I have stood up and spoken about something so horrible that happened to me and i’m being shot down.

    62
    Favourite Bridget
    Hide Comment
    Report as Defamatory
    Report this Comment
    Dec 15th 2015, 12:03 PM

    I’m afraid a big part of it now is social media, internet.
    easy availible of porn, over sexualisation of kids for years, music videos, songs.
    I know im generalising but
    Some of These kids grow up and some dont know how to behave.

    Not that long ago a Story telling kids it was ok to have a threesome.

    How can they not be confused.
    Mixed messages being received.

    Serious lack of morals or values or whatever you want to call it in some parts of society, and sadly it will only get worse.
    Disagree with me if you wish and say whos morals values.
    Kids are confused about how to act or behave.
    They know one way but the see another.
    I feel very sorry for some young kids today and even worse for who they get involved with.

    32
    Favourite Richard Cheney
    Hide Comment
    Report as Defamatory
    Report this Comment
    Dec 15th 2015, 12:12 PM

    I remember when there was no porn and no sexualisation of kids and one organisation on this island, the so-called bearer of our ‘moral values’, beat, raped and sold those children, the shocking thing is, that with full knowledge of the most heinous crimes committed against these children, some people are still members of that organisation, and even defend it.

    55
    Favourite gastrophase
    Hide Comment
    Report as Defamatory
    Report this Comment
    Dec 15th 2015, 12:12 PM

    Eva Maria, thank you for telling your story, your father seems to have been blinded… I want to believe that the good guys who are “up in arms” here are only so because women don’t speak up about their experiences. I bet that if they gathered their female relatives and friends in one room and got them to start telling stories they’d be flabbergasted by their number.

    51
    Favourite Bridget
    Hide Comment
    Report as Defamatory
    Report this Comment
    Dec 15th 2015, 12:17 PM

    RC
    Those people should be locked up.

    18
    Favourite Richard Cheney
    Hide Comment
    Report as Defamatory
    Report this Comment
    Dec 15th 2015, 12:20 PM

    Agreed Bridget.

    18
    Favourite Eva Maria
    Hide Comment
    Report as Defamatory
    Report this Comment
    Dec 15th 2015, 12:21 PM

    Thank you :-) my father is a very good man but as you say blinded, and i do not in any way blame him, my ex was a very charming guy and that is how so many get away with it. I think the title is wrong, there is no rape culture and it has caused a distraction from the meaning of the piece and all its asking is to stop accepting this behaviour and that is all I ask too.

    43
    Favourite Amy Gaffney
    Hide Comment
    Report as Defamatory
    Report this Comment
    Dec 15th 2015, 12:22 PM

    Eva please don’t be disheartened by thumbs down or men defending themselves, a lot of it has to do with how little they know of the actual prevalence of these issues. Like I said one man can cause 20 women to have a bad experience, but how many of those women will tell all the men in their lives? None of the men in my life, bar the ones who witnessed it, know what happened to me that night. Not my brothers or dad or mates. Thinking back, I should have told them. But we all have had a bad experience in our lives, men and women, and sometimes people need to realise that that girl at the bar who is flirting with you, she may have been abused as a child. Or that man who is nervous about talking to women, a girl broke his heart in the most callous way one time. Empathy could go a long way in this discussion. We don’t know what crosses other people are bearing.

    57
    Favourite Eva Maria
    Hide Comment
    Report as Defamatory
    Report this Comment
    Dec 15th 2015, 12:37 PM

    its very disheartening and upsetting, the video brought back enough bad memories but the comments and negativity are bringing back more hurtful ones of denial and tollenance.

    30
    Favourite John R
    Hide Comment
    Report as Defamatory
    Report this Comment
    Dec 15th 2015, 12:44 PM

    Thanks Amy for your honest responses. I just find it hard to fathom I suppose that men have behaved like this with you. But the issues raised in the video do provide me with considerable food for thought. I see where the campaign is coming from and I understand why. I just wonder is it going to be effective in its current guise. Will it get through to men?

    26
    Favourite John R
    Hide Comment
    Report as Defamatory
    Report this Comment
    Dec 15th 2015, 12:53 PM

    Eva Maria, thanks for telling your story. How disheartening, hurtful and disempowering it must be to have your lived experiences devalued and denigrated. You’re very courageous woman indeed. Appreciate you sticking your head above the parapet and braving the comments. Your sharing of your experiences makes me think about my own attitudes for which I thank you. Good luck with your life!

    36
    Favourite Bridget
    Hide Comment
    Report as Defamatory
    Report this Comment
    Dec 15th 2015, 12:58 PM

    Richard
    how liberal and tolerant of you
    to allow good people everywhere to practice their faith as they wish.

    Did you stop going to doctors or sending you kids to school or shoping or hiring lawyers, gardners, plummers, electricans because people in these professions have abused too.

    Must be tough trying to keep yourself isolated from everyone.

    15
    Favourite Eva Maria
    Hide Comment
    Report as Defamatory
    Report this Comment
    Dec 15th 2015, 12:59 PM

    Thank you John, I said nothing for so long because of this kind of reaction so thank you for your kind words.

    28
    Favourite Bridget
    Hide Comment
    Report as Defamatory
    Report this Comment
    Dec 15th 2015, 1:23 PM

    Eva Maria

    I wish you well in your life.

    14
    Favourite Eva Maria
    Hide Comment
    Report as Defamatory
    Report this Comment
    Dec 15th 2015, 2:00 PM

    I have a great life thank you Bridget, and no matter what I am free.

    15
    Favourite Eva Maria
    Hide Comment
    Report as Defamatory
    Report this Comment
    Dec 15th 2015, 2:06 PM

    and to the thumbs down, especially the one one Bridgets wishing me well in life, shame on you.

    11
    Favourite Brian Deane
    Hide Comment
    Report as Defamatory
    Report this Comment
    Dec 15th 2015, 3:36 PM

    Well said, John R.
    Demonizing men and victimizing women suits the agenda of the feminist ideologues. All victims of domestic and sexual violence are deserving of our help and support regardless of their gender, age or race.

    18
    Favourite Eva Maria
    Hide Comment
    Report as Defamatory
    Report this Comment
    Dec 15th 2015, 3:37 PM

    I am absolutely shocked and so hurt at this negativity, this piece is about standing up against the men that put women down and all i feel is put down for telling my story. I am not blaming men, I am shining a light on the fact that it happens, it happens a lot and it needs to stop. Stand from behind those red thumbs and say what you disagree with that I have written and why you wish me a bad life.

    16
    Favourite Julie Denning
    Hide Comment
    Report as Defamatory
    Report this Comment
    Dec 15th 2015, 3:52 PM

    So what if he buys drinks all night that is the attitude we need to get rid of. Just because you buy a woman drinks all night does not mean you are buying her for the night

    17
    Favourite Eva Maria
    Hide Comment
    Report as Defamatory
    Report this Comment
    Dec 15th 2015, 5:25 PM

    cowards!

    8
    Favourite Tony_Kilduff
    Hide Comment
    Report as Defamatory
    Report this Comment
    Dec 15th 2015, 5:26 PM

    And the ironic thing is Bridget we all know what type of priests did most of the rape within the church.

    6