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Comment #2100998 by Laurence

Laurence Feb 8th 2014, 4:43 PM #

Typical Irish pro-choice protesters. Incapable of making an argument without descending into vulgarity.

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Pics: Pro-choice activists protest Spanish abortion plans at embassy in Dublin

Pics: Pro-choice activists protest Spanish abortion plans at embassy in Dublin

Draft legislation published by the Spanish government would make access to abortion more restricted in the country, with groups saying it will force women to go abroad for terminations.

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    Favourite John Everyman
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    Feb 8th 2014, 4:55 PM

    And of course the other side never do that:

    “murderer”
    “baby killer”
    “selfish slut”

    All common, vulgar phrases wheeled out by the anti choice mob.

    140
    Favourite Nicole McCormack
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    Feb 8th 2014, 5:19 PM

    Just like your anti choice religious nuts wh

    41
    Favourite Colin Reilly
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    Feb 8th 2014, 5:21 PM

    We’re actually not “anti choice”, we’re pro-life.

    54
    Favourite John Everyman
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    Feb 8th 2014, 5:29 PM

    Call yourself what you want.

    You would deny women the option of choosing of whether or not they wish to remain pregnant. That makes you anti choice.

    85
    Favourite Colin Reilly
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    Feb 8th 2014, 5:31 PM

    So by your logic, you’re anti-life.

    44
    Favourite John Everyman
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    Feb 8th 2014, 5:37 PM

    “So by your logic, you’re anti-life”

    Ah, that old lie. What you fail to account for is the fact that pro-choice people don’t limit people’s options; they don’t force people to have abortions.

    They are in favour of the woman making their own choice, whatever that may be.

    78
    Favourite Daisy Chainsaw
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    Feb 8th 2014, 5:38 PM

    If you’re so “pro-life” what have you done for those already born who are cold and hungry because of austerity and cutbacks to the likes of child benefit, wages etc?

    So called “pro life” supporters don’t give 2 hoots about the already born. That’s evident by the money wasted on posters and jumbotrons, rather than giving that money to those who need it to live. The money goes towards campaigns to deny women full autonomy over their own health.

    76
    Favourite Joanne Smyth
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    Feb 8th 2014, 5:41 PM

    And what if that life is not viable or puts the mothers life at risk? You would rather see a pregnant woman die than have an abortion? ? I think that makes you anti life.

    61
    Favourite Sinead Hanley
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    Feb 8th 2014, 5:54 PM

    Oh Daisy.. Did u ever hear of Cura.. Support for those who have unwanted pregnancies.. Financial, practical, emotional support.. Free

    And the abortion clinics will “help” women for a small fee of €500 and upwards..

    You are very naive if u cant see the abortion industry for what it is.. A way to screw money out of vulnerable women..

    39
    Favourite John Everyman
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    Feb 8th 2014, 6:03 PM

    Because of course Sinead it is impossible that a woman would just not want to be pregnant.

    The anti choice mob likes to pretend all unwanted pregnancies are carried by “vulnerable” or “naive” women. I find that offensive and would instead argue that women are more than capable of making their own decision when faced with an unwanted pregnancy. You would deny them the option of making that decision.

    64
    Favourite Joanne Smyth
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    Feb 8th 2014, 6:07 PM

    Sinead Hanley, a woman goes to cura and gets all the help they can provide , but they still tell her the whole time she has options and its her own choice. There is no pressure put on her whatsoever. The same in an abortion clinic. Right up until the abortion happens she is told time and time again she can back out at any stage. It still comes down to the decision of each individual woman. It’s nobody else’s decision only hers. Who the hell are you, sitting up there on your high horse, to tell any woman what she can and can’t do with her own body.
    In the same way that I would never tell you (or any of my female friends) what to do with their body’s, it’s absolutely none of your business what decisions any woman makes in relation to her own body.

    58
    Favourite hdfsjkah
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    Feb 8th 2014, 6:55 PM

    f you’re so “pro-life” what have you done for those already born who are cold and hungry because of austerity and cutbacks to the likes of child benefit, wages etc?

    So called “pro life” supporters don’t give 2 hoots about the already born. That’s evident by the money wasted on posters and jumbotrons, rather than giving that money to those who need it to live. The money goes towards campaigns to deny women full autonomy over their own health.

    To the author of this rubbish above
    Pro-life people are the biggest supporters of charities in ireland

    19
    Favourite Sinead Hanley
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    Feb 8th 2014, 6:56 PM

    Joanne.. I have no right to tell any woman what to do with their body..
    I am just giving general advice and my own personal experience of abortion..

    18
    Favourite Joanne Smyth
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    Feb 8th 2014, 7:31 PM

    Sinead, No you’re not. You’re scaremongering women into believing they will be screwed out of money by an abortion clinic. I dont know nor want to know what kind of personal experience you’re speaking about, but in my experience, no amount of talking through options or counselling was going to make any difference to the decision I made. And as for any woman who finds themselves in that same situation I would never relay my own experience in order to sway their decision. Each case and experience is different and what is right for 1 woman may be different for the next.

    39
    Favourite Nicole McCormack
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    Feb 8th 2014, 7:42 PM

    For sure John….I heard worse from them. But they have the church on their side…and we know how good they are at protecting children. Seems they care about a cluster of cells but once born it’s ok to abuse and sexually exploit children. 2 faced

    34
    Favourite Ogochukwu'sbrother
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    Feb 8th 2014, 7:50 PM

    Ogochukwu’sbrother is having lols at the scaremongering ..lol

    5
    Favourite Nick Caffrey
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    Feb 8th 2014, 8:11 PM

    Go back to your cave…

    12
    Favourite Nick Caffrey
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    Feb 8th 2014, 8:12 PM

    Wake up…

    9
    Favourite Nick Caffrey
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    Feb 8th 2014, 8:14 PM

    Bravo!

    8
    Favourite Ogochukwu'sbrother
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    Feb 8th 2014, 8:24 PM

    CURA ..lol they’re probably the same “counsellors” that turn gay people straight..lol

    12
    Favourite Sinead Hanley
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    Feb 8th 2014, 8:47 PM

    Joanne.. You dont want to know my negative abortion story. Yet you give your positive story.

    The reason the pro choice people dont want to hear a story like mine is cos it does nothing to further their agenda of legalizing abortion. If pro choice wanted to genuinely help women they would want to hear about my experience so no other woman would be hurt the way i was. Its important that a woman is FULLY informed, the good and the bad stuff, before she makes any big decision especially abortion.

    Its ok that you have no interest in my story. But why is that?

    17
    Favourite Joanne Smyth
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    Feb 8th 2014, 9:44 PM

    Sinead, not that I have no interest, just that its none of my business. If anyone asked my opinion on the matter of abortion and asked about my experience then I would 100% answer any questions asked. But I would also point out that its not an easy decision by any means. Im certainly not saying I had a fantastic time but what I will say is that, to this day, I dont regret anything, it was the right decision for me at the time. I took everything into consideration at the time and thought very carefully about it. And that would be what I would tell any woman who was found themselves in that situation.

    I have no issue with anyone having an opinion on a subject, but when these “pro lifers” start quoting the bible and talkin about hell and eternal damnation, thats what grinds my gears. IMO, only those that have gone through the experience of abortion are the only one’s qualified to talk about it, whichever side they’re on.

    20
    Favourite Bridget
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    Feb 8th 2014, 11:58 PM

    Not all Pro Choice are religious, think some people should have coped that on by now!

    7
    Favourite Shanti
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    Feb 9th 2014, 12:05 AM

    Sinead.
    Throughout life each of us will make decisions. Some big and life changing, others not so much. Some are positive and some are negative. Some we benefit from, others we regret.
    But they are our decisions to make, and we must live with the consequences. That is the law of cause and effect.

    You regret your decision. As such, it is not a decision that you will make again, yes? I sincerely doubt that the majority of women who have had an abortion would ever wish to repeat the process, it’s not supposed to be a pleasant one, sometimes it’s just the best of some bad options for that woman.
    I realise that you have noble intentions in wishing to warn others about your experience, but surely you appreciate that as the decision was (presumably, I sincerely hope so) yours, you too must respect the decisions of others?

    If somehow you were coerced or forced into an abortion then may I say, as someone who is pro choice, I find that to be wrong and offer my sincere condolences – no one should ever be forced to abort. The decision should be one made of your own free will as only you will be required to live with it.

    11
    Favourite Joanne Smyth
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    Feb 9th 2014, 12:06 AM

    Bridget, if that was aimed at me, I think you’ll find I referred to pro life quoting religious references, not pro choice.

    8
    Favourite Janet Flood
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    Feb 9th 2014, 1:07 AM

    Some people who are Pro-Life and religious have nothing to do with the Catholic Church or they’re particular beliefs. Just thought I’d point that out :P

    6
    Favourite Nicole McCormack
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    Feb 9th 2014, 6:31 AM

    He means giving money to Youth Defence etc

    5
    Favourite Bridget
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    Feb 9th 2014, 10:43 AM

    But that wouldn’t suit the agenda is the commentator on here
    Anyone on here who is Pro Life is automatically a Religious Nut Job so that way they can attack the religion, Catholic Church etc and not deal with the issue of how they are all in favour of a woman “choice”, Ending a Living Human because its “her body”, even though its not her body she’s getting Rid off..

    1
    Favourite Shanti
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    Feb 9th 2014, 1:51 PM

    Bridget.. If some of the anti choice commenters would stop talking about religion there would be no reason for people to think that… But sadly – those on the anti choice side keep blabbing about their religious beliefs, you have the Iona “institute” or YD representing you for media debates – and they ARE religious.. As another commenter down the page pointed out – the secular pro lifers appear to be a largely silent group.. The vast majority of those seeking to deny access lean toward religion.. Hence where the association, even if not entirely correct, comes from.

    4
    Favourite hdfsjkah
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    Feb 9th 2014, 1:53 PM

    emmm what about me

    1
    Favourite Shanti
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    Feb 9th 2014, 2:23 PM

    Well yes, you have problems with people who use science and reason to make an argument.. So whether you are religious or not – you are just as damaging to their side as the religious ones..

    5
    Favourite hdfsjkah
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    Feb 9th 2014, 2:43 PM

    Well yes, you have problems with people who use science and reason to make an argumeent

    LOL
    see my comments above and my blog thanks

    PS would you be interested in having a formal debate sometime because that way we can cut down the dishonesty you show on the web

    1
    Favourite Shanti
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    Feb 9th 2014, 2:51 PM

    I have seen your blog. In fact I posted a link to it up the page, did you not see?

    With regards your “blog” it’s just like your arguments here, there is not one reference to a scientific study, there’s ONE reference to a blog post you sought to argue, but nothing to back up your assertions, nothing to verify any of your claims.
    As any of us who have a third level education know – this is not acceptable. One must always reference their claims, otherwise they are opinions and cannot be held as fact.

    And yet you call ME dishonest?

    I am having debates with you. And you keep resorting to fallacious rhetoric so by definition, it is you who is the liar.

    6
    Favourite Shanti
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    Feb 9th 2014, 3:11 PM

    “I decided to start this blog after coming across a growing culture of what I guess can best be described as scientific fundamentalism or militant atheism. The proponents of these beliefs are often very hostile to those who hold religious beliefs, or disagree with their view that science supports a left-wing liberal agenda.”
    http://seamyjamesy.wordpress.com/2014/01/11/raison-detre/

    Does this seem familiar? Of course you aren’t religious, you just bemoan “militant atheism” or “scientific fundamentalism”. Why is that? Because people post references at you that contradict what you say?

    4
    Favourite hdfsjkah
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    Feb 9th 2014, 3:14 PM

    Shanti I do not have the time to reference basic biological facts the onus is on you to educate yourself and be honest in your conclusions

    1
    Favourite hdfsjkah
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    Feb 9th 2014, 3:15 PM

    Shanti do you honestly believe science supports an Ideology

    #fool

    1
    Favourite Shanti
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    Feb 9th 2014, 4:04 PM

    When you make a claim the onus is upon you to back it up – this is what is known as the burden of proof.
    If you wish for people to take your claims seriously, then you must be able to reference research that confirms your argument. It is really quite simple. Anyone claiming to have a scientific background knows that in order for them to make an assertion the requirement to provide evidence to back up their claims rests upon their shoulders. Deferring to google or saying “read a textbook” is a cop out and you know it.

    As is reaching for the childish personal attacks and building straw men. The RCOG study does not even attempt to answer the abortion debate, the point being made to you is that until the brain has finished certain stages of development, that foetus has no capacity for life outside of the womb and as such cannot be held in a position of priority over the fully developed human it is contingent upon for its existence. There is a balance of rights here, and the priority must rest with the person expected to act as life support, and accepting any and all risks to their health for doing so.

    6
    Favourite hdfsjkah
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    Feb 9th 2014, 5:01 PM

    Shanti making extra ordinary claims without addressing what I have said is you and florences biggest problem
    Do you just copy and paste from websites found using google and the search term fallacy

    Shanti I am glad you finally acknowledged what i have told you as truth
    Now in the balance of rights lets consider the right to kill a fetus very the right of a fetus to be killed
    Framing the question your way ignores the facts and of course personal responsibility

    1
    Favourite Shanti
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    Feb 9th 2014, 6:19 PM

    Women are not inanimate objects. They are alive, and thinking and feeling. While you may feel it is within your rights to decide what a woman can and cannot do with her body, there are many who disagree. The difference is – they aren’t asking anyone to *have* an abortion, just that the option be there for those who choose it.
    You wish to force your beliefs upon those who do not share them. You wish to exert totalitarian control over women’s bodies if they happen to be pregnant. You wish to reduce the rights of those women to below those of a foetus not even guaranteed to gestate to the end of the first trimester.
    You wish to ignore the physiological and psychological harms that this can cause the woman in order to satisfy YOUR ideology. All I ask for is that people have their free will respected.

    You may claim not to be religious, but your methods of trying to force others to live by your morals is certainly not too far from those who seek to push their religious beliefs upon others. Because in the lack of a scientific consensus – that is all you or anyone else has – beliefs.

    5
    Favourite hdfsjkah
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    Feb 9th 2014, 7:43 PM

    Shanti not for the first time you ignore the fact that a fetus is killed as part of this exercise in autonomy
    Until you realsie that you do not comprehend the seiousness of this debate

    You can make all these wild allegations but until you can prove that a human life is not sacrificed for this so called right then you are a evil person who fights against the most basic of human rights
    why because you want your cake and eat it

    As for what you understand the word religious to mean highlights the hatred you have for human beings that don’t share your deluded evil beliefs and thats what they are evil and deluded

    But its ok because you are a woman and woman are always vicitms even if they are victims of there own actions

    Thanks Zeus that only a small percentage of woman 9and men) share you self centered idiotic opinions

    1
    Favourite Shanti
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    Feb 10th 2014, 12:54 AM

    How can you kill something that is not yet alive?

    I keep asking you, a woman gives birth at 13 weeks. The point where 91% of abortions in the UK have been carried out by. What happens to that baby? Can it survive birth?
    Is it “alive” in it’s own right, or is it contingent upon a woman to act as life support?

    4
    Favourite hdfsjkah
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    Feb 10th 2014, 11:16 AM

    Shanti and thats is the height of your problem
    Ignornance of the issues and biology

    Sad person

    1
    Favourite Shanti
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    Feb 10th 2014, 5:03 PM

    And yet you cannot refute, all you can do is make vague statements and personal attacks..

    Answer the question. The foetus at 13 weeks – is it capable of life outside of the womb, yes or no?

    The answer is no by the way..
    Therefore in order for it to live it requires the life support of the mother – much like a legally dead patient requires mechanical life support – without which they will die.

    The only difference is that the foetus has the potential to be able to survive if you give it a few more weeks – but those few weeks are still reliant upon another persons body. And it is not even guaranteed by nature to do so.

    So, if the woman chooses to withdraw life support at a point where the child cannot survive outside of the womb, is she “killing” it, or terminating it’s *development* into a living thing?

    After all – you can make exceptions for reasons you deem to be acceptable, like incompatibility with life. And the argument there is that the foetus cannot survive outside of the womb.

    You seem to think that women who abort would not mind carrying the pregnancy to offer for adoption, but that conveniently ignores the fact that you are asking more of that woman than of any other person in the world – to grow another human and bring it to life – that’s a monumental ask. Your lack of respect for the answer shows you have no respect for the gravitas of what your “ethics” require.

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