I think it was Stephen Donnelly who said in relation to Irish Water after the failure of the Eurostat test that in the real world Tierney would be facing legal action for his incompetence.

Fully agree mrs b that many would be willing to pay if the process was properly done in the 1st place.

Mrs b
I fully understand and support people who won’t pay this tax. But you coming out with this idea that if IW was set up different more people would have paid . Mrs b what cloud are you sheltering under ? what a load of B.S. When IW was set up by this Government G S The people had their minds made up the protesters all had one voice why pay the second time . I have read some hairy excuses on this site but you have topped it.

just back and it was brill. the idiots are at it again with their “I don’t mind stories”

No matter what way I W was set up the people had their minds made up of not paying .This excuse of setting up this Company is only coming onboard recently. We all knew the stupidly of the people involved in setting it up.. I have one question will the people who won’t pay But registered put their hands out to take The 100 euros When it comes ?

alan, think about this, a senior politician along with executives from the dept. held meeting’s to set up a billion euro company and no one thought to keep notes of said meetings.
politics – spending taxpayers money fg style

I’m with you Ciaran, excellent turn out and if ever there was a cheerful crowd then it was today. worth getting wet for :-)

@Alan Scott: You must be related to Barry Scott!

Don’t forget about the 80 MILLION (plus) spent on ‘consultants’. In any other business this would be called embezzlement.

The journal reporting a ‘large crowd’. Even RTE is reporting tens of thousands.

Sheeesssh. Can’t wait till the aerial shots are up on social media.

..it’s a great feeling this, winning!

I have a huge problem with consumption Dave Hanlon especially when this country is literally drowning in water.

No need for meters, water is not scarce in this country and they know damn well its not scarce so why meters?.

Simple really this was the goose that was going to lay the golden egg once IW was privatised/

A poor family with 5 children would pay hundreds more than a couple of professionals with no kids, so basically the bigger your family the more you will pay does that sound fair to you?.

No… Already the Taxpayers and any one who runs a car or buys anything with a VAT are paying to the tune of one point one Billion plus per year.. People are not prepared to pay a third payment. Only idiots would swallow that.

Densely packed to Abbey st the Journal say, when I turned onto O’Connell st the street was full up to the bridge by that stage already.

Good man Jamie! All young people know how very little they’ve really done for us! And then there blueshirts in here saying young educated people will only vote for the like the first fine Gael. More and more people are waking up. We’ll done to all who took to the streets

80 grand a year just in bonuses???

Well done to all those who attended. This quango is almost finished.
Delighted to see the Irish people standing up to this puppet regime.
Merkel, can you hear me?! Your boys are taking one hell of a beating.

RTE – your new BFF lol…

Here’s how many times we pay for our water already.

1. Income tax.

2. Commercial water bills paid by every business, such as hairdressers, every small shop, every take away, every farmer, etc, in the country since 1977.

3. 2% of all VAT since 1977 and compounded since 1997 in separate legislation

4. 5% of all road tax since 1977 and compounded since 1997 in separate legisation.

5. 490 million of property tax diverted to Irish Water,

6. An additional 66% of the road tax fund diverted to Irish Water.

7. 300 million from the national pension reserve fund diverted to Irish Water. The legality of this is questionable if the government considers Irish Water a private company.

8. Hotels, pubs and restaurants all pass on the water charge to you. Part of the cost of a drink in a bar. All those businesses pay water rates.

9. Irish Water meters.

10. Domestic Water Bills issued by Irish Water since April 2015.

Over the years this has been compounded by each government made up of at various times by Fianna Fail, Fina Gael, Labour, Progressive Democrats and Greens.

Why even argue with Yates and Bob, the proof is in the pudding Irish water is dead. Also I think it’s safe to say a lot of people didn’t go out today as the last billing cycle has proved it’s game over for FG and LAB. Slan Abhaile

Starting to look like a job for the CAB.

andrea, excellent post
all trolls assemble, red alert!

totally agree Mrs b. they made a balls of it from the start. I hope this is the beginning of the end for this government. i didn’t vote for enda and co last time. let’s hope no one does next year

if we are paying for water so many times over, you got to ask where is all that money going? Water network in bits! Beaches being polluted because the sewage network can’t cope and the reservoirs can’t hold enough for the number of people using them. Got to see the corruption and bad management in the local authorities before IW and now they are all moved to IW.

Totally agree with Mrs B, its the sneering, smarmy snakes in charge of IW who ballsed this up .

Na Ciaran, sadly Andrea’s post is simply too stupid to respond to.

@ pat “Densely packed to Abbey st the Journal say, when I turned onto O’Connell st the street was full up to the bridge by that stage already.”

Correct Pat. I squeezed my way back down to the bridge and there were still people streaming up batchelors walk.

That’s the second case of highly dubious journalism I’ve seen on here today.

There has to be some cap on consumption, at the end of the day if you give something free to people, damn right they’ll waste it. So my solution is don’t charge people for water, but if you wish to waste water filling pools from Argos, constantly watering your garden, or constantly washing your car, then you have to pay towards all this extra usage.

well said Andrea

Aging, a couple with no kids who have more disposal income than your average industrial wage family of 3 or more children will of course use an awful lot less water, but pay less even though they can afford to pay more, so why not let the bigger families take up the slack of the water that they never use?.

Meters are nothing but a stinking cash cow in a country with (I’ll say again) 5 times more access to fresh water than your average European, go figure why we need meters or should I say why we don’t need meters????

I said it before and i’ll say it again. the PAC need to bring before it previous finance ministers and ask them where did the misappropriation of funds earmarked and ring fenced for the maintenance of water infrastructure in this country go?

And if they can prove within reasonable doubt that they or their political parties benefited directly or indirectly then they should be punished to the full extent if the law.

Somebody wants his €100 “bribe”…

Pearse Doherty said people were entitled to register with Irish Water, collect their conservation grant and not pay their bills.

“Is it hypocritical to take the €100? Not at all,” Mr Doherty said.

the proof is not in the pudding , its not dead , the pressure on them needs to continue .

William I agree completely with you. Obviously any system needs checks and balances to ensure that the most vulnerable are not unfairly burdened with excessive charges but consumption with an allowance based on means seems the fairest way to me, the same argument could be made about paying for electricity after all. Water does indeed fall from the sky in vast quantities here, contrary to FG’s version of reality, but given the processes required to maintain the infrastructure necessary to deliver it investment is essential. If the levies on motor tax etc were lifted and more money put back in people’s pockets then a consumption charge would make sense but as you correctly point out this entire exercise has been nothing more than a fattening of the cow for privatisation, personally I wouldn’t be surprised if a certain SOMEBODY *cough* has already been guaranteed the acquisition.

Mary Lou:

“We would not be making rebates to people who have paid the charges, but neither would we be asking for the conservation charge back.

“We’re just being honest with people. The figures have to add up and you have to balance the books.”

Lol.

mrs b and david hanlon 100% agree with you. myself and all of my family are not against a reasonable cost for water and making sure it was safe to drink . the whole way it was introduces and presented to the people was a disgrace. both of you have hit the nail on the head!

@ dermo: “Pearse Doherty said people were entitled to register with Irish Water, collect their conservation grant and not pay their bills.”

That is correct as per the current information at hand.

Even when the shinners are clearly telling the truth dermo still has a problem with them. Comical.

Dave Hanlon yes of course the infrastructure needs to be paid for upgraded (over time) and maintained, but metering was not called for in a country literally drowning in fresh water.

A simple yearly maintenance charge of say €100 is all that is/was required not a metering scam with original water tariffs that had the potential to go into 4 figures for many hard up families, hence why I’m so delighted that the Irish people for once in their life said enough is enough instead of surrendering like beaten dogs.

so they got their “branding” wrong? that’s all?…. Think again!

For Connolly, one of your senior leaders is willing to take the “bribe” to register with Irish Water.

At least Paul Murphy has principles.

Ciaran, What prompted me to respond was a post saying if Irish Water was set up differently then a lot more would pay . It does not matter if the Pope set up Irish Water people who have made up their mind still won’t pay and some are now giving this excuse for not paying.

@John we are twins .now you can stop itching your nose

Alan Scott: I registered and I am NOT claiming the bribe. Is that ok?

Not to mention Mary Lou’s comedy gold…

Ah sure those who paid, won’t be repaid, but those who took the €100 bribe from the State can keep it… sure “you have to balance the books”

That’s the thing about touting the bribe as a ‘grant’. Once the person receiving it meets the criteria, it is granted to them and cannot be recovered.

I agree alan, the narrative has changed from threats and intimidation to “it was set up wrong”
I can see the new approach is to re jig iw in the hope that people and it has to be said stupid people will pay, which is why I ask colleagues will they pay mine
I also remind them that no one wastes water that I know of and where has the water come from up to now

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1029987353683488

@Margaret I never once said I am supporting the Government I am not . But in your excitement to rush in and make your Mark . Pick a Government Minister

The €100 is a government ploy to encourage people to register with Irish Water, correct?

SF told us all not to take this “bribe”, to stop registrations from increasing further.

Now SF say it’s all ok to accept this “bribe”.

Pretty scattered and hypocritical from SF.

@John Lennox:

“FG have shown themselves to be every bit as corrupt as the gangsters that make up FF”.

I agree 100% with you. Speaking as a life-long FG voter, of many previous family generations, I will NEVER vote for FG again in my lifetime. As for Labour. I never gave Labour my No.1 or 2 but I will leave their candidate’s box(s) blank, again for the rest of my lifetime. GOOD RIDDANCE to both of those corrupt parties in my opinion. I never before voted for SF before, but they will be definitely getting a fairly high-up position on my ballot paper. It can’t happen soon enough in my opinion.

Here’s how you lead For Connolly:

Paul Murphy said he would encourage people not to engage with Irish Water: “The water conservation grant was a con,” he said. “It was a trick to try to get people into the system, bribing them with their own money and bribing them with money taken from lone parents.”

Can’t disagree with any of that William, a fixed charge would have been the way to go alright and the money used to upgrade infrastructure, I can recall off hand how many millions were wasted on the metering program though *redacteds writedowns certainly would have fixed a pipe or 2…

mrs b = mrs blueshirt

People are fed up of corruption, cronyism. Quangos , mismanagement. Lies . they didn’t care or worry about water or infrastructure when in opposition. Suddenly they are in government and its falling apart. Before they fix a pipe that’s meant to be on the point of collapse , they give a contract worth half a billion to their buddy. The game us up . if it was mismanagement for years at local level that water was neglected , why employ people that were part of that mismanagement. But hey this is government where they reward failure and don’t mind corruption, cronyism , mismanagement.

@ Diarmuid why not give up while you have some credibility? Trying to pick holes in SF or the AAA claims while it is FG/Labours “strategy” that lies in tatters is pretty sad to be honest….

Diarmuid, you appear to be obsessed with Sinn Fein. Just saying!

“Diarmuid why not give up while you have some credibility?”

Oh Kerry, I like sarcasm as much as the next person but that is just cruel.

It’s actually Mrs brennan ..poor guess.. very very poor.

Scary Mary economics.

Poor dermo. The government gamble to pad their registration numbers by swiping up to 100 million from a Department which exists to help the most vulnerable, offers it to people for signing up to a company they may not ever be a paying customer of, and then call it a water conservation grant even though there is no water conservation measure required to be eligible for it.

And dermos problem with all of this is ‘what the shinners said’.

Mrs b, and how many millions of people turned out to protest your stated indignity !

But as has been mentioned elsewhere, paying for water by consumption will lead to water poverty, just as we have fuel poverty. There prospect of the privatisation of our water is also a real threat if we have direct charges or metering. It isn’t just about how IW was established.

Oh the hypocrisy yet again. Earlier in the thread you said

“That’s the thing about touting the bribe as a ‘grant’. Once the person receiving it meets the criteria, it is granted to them and cannot be recovered.”

And now :

” The government gamble to pad their registration numbers by swiping up to 100 million from a Department which exists to help the most vulnerable”

So it’s pretty ok for SF to encourage people who have no intention of pay the water charges to accept the bribe, while giving out about FG/Labour offering it?

You are too much.

Comment of the week David Hanlon

SF are encouraging people to accept the bribe i.e. encouraging them to register? I thought their position was for individuals to make up their own minds, but the party did not support water charges and wants to abolish irish water.

Can you tell us more please pat…..

Yikes! Kerry, Brian, Les, FC…

Sorry for mentioning actual quotes!! You don’t like quotes now?

Just pointing out SF’s flip-flop on the issue AGAIN! They’ve been jumping late on the bandwagon the last year… remember they initially wanted everyone to pay their bills?

Now they want everyone to accept this “bribe”?

You’ll note that I praised Paul Murphy for keeping to his principles.

Poor “For Connolly” is squirming like a worm!!….

No, no FC – Let’s try again shall we.

When FG/Labour offered the grant – it was a bribe and according to you it was swiped from the vulnerable, when SF encouraged people to accept the bribe – it then became a grant that people are entitled to.

That it is still being swiped from the most vulnerable – completely lost on you.

Here’s your post again:

“@ dermo: “Pearse Doherty said people were entitled to register with Irish Water, collect their conservation grant and not pay their bills.”
That is correct as per the current information at hand.
Even when the shinners are clearly telling the truth dermo still has a problem with them. Comical.”

So it’s a bribe when FG/Labour offered and a grant when SF say it is ok? Do you get it?

Perhaps FC can explain to us if he/she will be taking his party’s advice, accepting this “bribe”, registering with Irish Water and increasing the 43% registration rate…

SF principles go out the window when there’s free cash on offer…

William Boyd is correct. The Dutch have to operate expensive / complex water purification plants to convert dirty water ( foul water ) to potable drinking water and still their €1.59 per m3 rate is 1/2 the CER approved IW rate of €3.70 per m3. Each person uses 45m3 per year. More info here:

http://www.nibud.nl/consumenten/energie-en-water/

To be clear, the CER approved IW rate of €3.70 per m3 kicks in jan2019. That’s € 166 pp per year. Each person uses 45m3 per year.

Labour promised no Water Charges at the last election. Now they have a Labour Minister Alan Kelly imposing Water Charges. What the f**k are elections just a joke now? How can we believe 1 word? # credibility.

I have absolutely no problem paying fairly for a service I am using but you are 100% correct so screw you irish water….we won’t pay!!!

Gregory – you are not comparing like with like.

You are comparing a country with over 16 million people and have spent billions investing in a water system through the years, with a country with 5 million people, who have not.

good luck with getting that answer Diarmuid – when FC’s hypocrisy is pointed out to him – he disappears.

Excellent idea

Pat, yeah FC vanished fairly lively there.

Wonder what he’s going to spend his €100 on…

Fancy pair of flip-flops?

What colours do you have?

Scarlet

Reduced to talking to yourself, it’s become a shambles man! Take a break.

Yes but Denis has gotten his money the other 2 parasites will retire on obnoxious pensions. For goodness sake the Irish electorate has to wake up and stop to be naive, the politician (carpet seller) calling at your door) and promising you anything to get your vote You want to be screwed again? Vote independent.

Diarmuid would you ever shut the f@#k up about sinn fein everyday the same old shite, I’d say even pat lyons is embarrassed for you by now!

Everyone’s so sensitive with this “bribe” carry on…

If I imagine they will accept €100 gleefully Alan , after all the IW quango don’t mind putting their hands out for their €3000 a week now do they ?

Diarmuid, this government created the issue of the conservation grant being paid to people who hadn’t actually paid the water charges. Why don’t you mention that in your comments.

Vanished? No.

Spent my Saturday night doing something other than posting on thejournal? Yes.

They have sold Irish water that’s why they won’t have a referendum

I could understand why someone might take it after all the revenue robbed peoples wages and social welfare for the hated property tax. Whats good for the goose an all.

yes good point mr B i would pay but i dont support the people running it ,the same crowd that made the mess of the incinerator project, Alan Kelly really gets my blood boiling …..

Diarmuid and all you other bust little government trolls, IW is dead, your lousy FG are going to be kicked into orbit next election, all the ould blather that you can think up will not change this, go back under your stone.

…busy…

john USC is much more as a tax and nobody protesting about that, cant understand why, anyway good point

David fair point, but the electorate will vote the fg crowd back because of the fear of the left and what can happen to a broken socierty on voting day, look at europe and the refugee proplem we have now….

People who are not paying are fully entitled to get the 100 Euros, if the scheme has been so sloppily set up as to facilitate people being handed back some of their taxes-even a 100 Euros will help pay the property tax next year.!

andrew why now a protest over USC tax nothing why?

For Connolly, were you spending your “bribe” (sorry it’s clearly a legitimate “grant” now) on a nice meal?

Reckon your IW registration could have pushed that 43% rate up to 44%?

Diarmuid = Tosser

Diarmuid

If it isn’t Nazis and neo-Nazis you obsess about simply when someone disagrees with multiculturalism or mass-immigration policies, then it’s banging on about Sinn Féin and IRA, I can only wonder with whomever you are engaged with today, what lies you are spreading about them, as you did with myself.

You make a great case for a self financing water authority. Yes funding for water services has come from every where and anywhere. We need to grow up and pay for what we receive to the extent which we receive it wheather it be gas water or electricty. People who have been providing their own water and sewage treatment systems for years have through their taxes paid for the provision of services to those who refuse to pay for services. don’t get me wrong their will always be people who genuinely cannot afford to pay and for this we have a social welfare system. In the past people on social welfare for example received a waver on their water rates. Society has an obligation to protect the weak or missfortunate. So do we need to protest? Yes. We should be protesting for an equitable system of governance where everyone pays for the services they receive once only and those who genuinely struggle are supported by a system that spreads the load proportionally across those who can afford it. I have paid my water charges (not a tax) and will not be claiming the €100 conservation grant as it has nothing to do with conservation. I have seen first hand our water services infrastructure and realise it needs proper management. I am not sure that IW as it is set up is the best way to go about it. But I am certain that while a water service has not got a clearly defined consumption related revenue source we will continue to have poluted lakes and rivers and water supplies with boil notices. Such is human nature.

Ann do you think that the other ways we pay for water should be abolished if water charges continue? Or should we just pay what we are told shut up and get on with it?

“Aryan Light” (lasair)…

I may disagree with a few people above on certain matters, but your degenerate neo-Nazi views are not welcome by anyone here.

Like the way you turned St Brigid’s Cross into a swastika there… Subtle.

:)

The fact that you can’t understand the simple economics of repairing, maintaining, upgrading the infrastructure leads me to the conclusion that you sir are the Morin

Les, any moron, ie the rest of the world, can see that charging directly for water is just common sense. Not so common in this country though with the numbers that turn up to these marches.

Water will always be free – it is the delivery of a drinkable upgrade of it and the taking away of your mess filled waste water that we have paid for and will continue to pay for.

A you are a duck night in the dark. Water is currently being paid for in road tax fees. Hence every car taxed has paid 30% income for water. Now let’s run that taught for freedom towards road tax charges. Any one with a car, truck, bus, motor bike are paying for water. Question. Doesn’t this mean your comment is ridiculous because water already being paid for is not free.

Have paid for and continue to pay for, to the tune of 1.2 billion a year. So what’s this new charge for? Where’s the 1.2 billion a year gone? Answers please!

And the half a billion from the local property tax and the 1 to 1.4 billion a year since 97, anyone care to ask were all that tax money went ??

Duck Knight – Pray tell me , do you pay your electricity bill twice over ???

” simple economics of repairing, maintaining, upgrading the infrastructure”

A giant quango and jobs for the boys, or how about decades of mismanagement by successive councils and governments? The conversation, repairing, maintaining and upgrading infrastructure has already been exposed as a lie.

You only have to look at how Irish Water was set up and the people that are involved to know that is wasn’t set up for the reason you are trying to peddle. I stand by my earlier comment Duck, you’re a moron.

Eddie, yes, via the usage of electricity, PSO levies, ESB capital investment over many past years, green levies and subsidies for peat.

Should also demolish the ESB quango ciarroch?

I don’t believe water should be free – I am not paying money to a quango that has been set up with the sole intention of privatising a natural resource and to line the pockets of thieving, criminal non-dom billionaires.

The USC should fund the repair of the water infrastructure.

OTV – From one hack to another – just remember this, if they succeed and IW is dismantled, G/Labour are thrown out and the new SF/AAA/PBP etc are in, then we can too reap the same benefits.

No water charges.
No property tax.
Lower taxes.
Higher income.
Fantastic Healthcare system,
An abundance of cheap, well made houses, enough for everyone.

Hmmm, I am converted. My vote is going to SF. I want that life I really do.

Not to forget the price rises Sunshine!!

Stiofain, IW won’t be privatised, you have proof it will be? ESB or BnM have never been privatised, why will IW?

Patlyndo, when presented with facts the react with rhetoric, innuendo and threats.