Stephen Downey
I absolutely agree . The banks should have renegotiated a mortgage and down sized the amount
at current market value , there fore the couple can keep their home the bank continues to get their mortgage and N A M A get to be bailed out

…..forgot to say ,leave out the middle man . I have been saying this for years…..

Sorry !!N A M A don’t get bailed out ……DOH !

Michael noonan are you for real?

Tough situation for everyone involved….seems like a positive step though, no need for the lack of faith

oh god why do the Irish people begrudge anyone who gets help.

so if the government pay the banks you give out and if they help the people you complain

4 long years and what do we get?

More Inefficient Government Drivel.

These unfortunate people have been squeezed enough.

But some of you wont be happy until you see your neighbors thrown out of their homes or dead.

Why don’t they just reduce the size of the mortgage for the homeowner?
The only reason these unfortunate people are in negative equity, is because a gang of stupid,, selfish, ignorant bankers, politicians and their cronies corruptly funneled too much cheap money through their dodgy Irish banking system for their own personal gain.

By reducing these people’s mortgages and leaving them in their home would….
(1) Save a fortune for the Irish taxpayer in not having to set up anymore of these mini NAMA style expensive inefficient government Leechpits and also save the taxpayer a fortune in expensive greedy solicitors conveyancing fees.
(2) Reduce suicides especially in rural areas where people have been corruptly had their ancestral homes and family land taken from them by government backed bankers and their heavy handed thugs.
(3) Reduce immigration as people would have something to work for and be proud off.
(4) Keep Irish communities and families together instead of splitting them up any further.
etc
etc
etc

These homeowners are worth more to our economy alive and living in Ireland in their own homes.

Hello Spruiker
Spot on .
You are dead right . It should have been done this way from the start .
No middle man and people can keep their homes .

“Ancestral home” and “family land” doesn’t sound very meritorious. Frankly, being born into land puts somebody pretty low down the list of deservees IMHO.
Income tax = penalising productivity
Inheritance tax = penalising dynastic society.

Gavin I know what you mean .I had to start all over again many years ago too ( not thru default) but it is not easy .I just keep wishing people good luck lately , but I mean it just as much when I say it to you too. Oh and Don’t register and don’t pay and don’t panic!
This house hold charge is our referendum on the government . Stand up and say enough is enough.
They can not bring us all to court . 63000 people have already paid BUT 1,580,000 people have not …..

No ….
The bank just marks it down
The only one to lose out is the original house owner !!!
They could easily do this to start with and leave out the middle man !!!
When you think about it, it’s not such a great idea really …

Eileen – The taxpayer does foot the bill depending on which banks are involved. When the write down on the mortgage happens that is a loss to the bank. In this case its AIB who are taking that hit. Given that we own almost all of AIB (from what I remember) that loss has to be funded by the taxpayer.

The balance ! is of course picked up by the bank , which is of course bailed out by the public.
there vis no need for a middle man ,then.

By all click the red thumb on my comments. It doesn’t alter the facts. Ultimately the bank (and by extension the taxpayer) is taking the burden if the taxpayer already owns the bank.

I’m not saying we shouldn’t have schemes like this because ultimately they give the homeowner some security that while they no longer own their own house, they are not burdened with an unsustainable mortgage.

What isn’t clear from this article is what happens once the bank is out of the equation. What arrangement exists between the tenant and the housing association. Can a tenant simply decide to stop renting and leave the house or are they locked into some arrangement? So in effect while they have would lost their house does the tenant end up being able to walk away debt free?

Eileen, I’m not sure I understand what you are saying about cutting out the middle man.

Are you saying that the bank should just write down the mortgage and the owner still owns the house but just pays a lower mortgage repayment? Or are you saying that the bank should own the house and the owner become a tenant?

I trust my neighbor to do good with my tax money far more than any Corrupt Government or Bank Rogue.

Who do you trust with your money ?

The Banks have already been bailed out with our money specifically for this purpose.
And
They have also wrote off these ”bad debts” years ago.

Now they are just milking it for a little bit more.

Gavin
Well said !

In effect this is a form of debt forgiveness Gavin. It’s not complete in that the owner loses out and has to become a tenant but they do end up debt free because their mortgage is gone. That is if I am understanding how the scheme works.

I’m sure there are many people who would consider that a very unfair bargain but I know lots of people who didn’t buy during the boom because they didn’t want to pay the prices being asked and who are now unhappy with the idea that somebody could just have a huge mortgage removed with no penalty whatsoever especially when the taxpayer will have to foot the bill.

As somebody who is struggling with a mortgage and negative equity (and I bought back in 2002) I think I’d investigate the scheme if I was eligible. It potentially would be better than my current situation. While I’d have lost out on my ownership and payments of ten years it would give me the chance to walk away and start again either in Ireland or abroad. Currently that’s not an option for me.

However what isn’t clear is what sort of arrangement exists between the tenant and Cluid once the bank is out of the way. Is it a straightforward rental agreement which can be terminated or is the tenant under some obligation to remain in the house for a specific time. That may suit some people but not others.

It also might be good if some form of buyback scheme was included. So if somebody went into this scheme and then after a few years got themselves back on their feet, they could have the option of buying back from Cluid assuming they could get a mortgage for the revised value.

Thats exactly it Conman. Banks gave bad and incorrect financial advice when offering mortgages up to 8x salary and although people should not have accepted those mortgage offers they should never have been made in the first place. Banks should be held accountable for this.

Gavin, in your previous post (which I responded to) you say this wasn’t debt forgiveness. That’s why I responded.

Gavin, ignore my previous post here. I’ve reread your original post and I realise that I misunderstood the point you were making! Sorry about that.

Oisin
I honestly can not see the need for Cluin housing association. I think opportunistic too.

Oisin / Eileen,

Cluid are a non-profit making charity who have been in existence for years providing housing for the disadvantaged – elderly, special needs, social housing lists etc. I’ve had cause to be involved with them in the past and they do some amazing work.

Maybe try a quick google next time before looking for a conspiracy theory or accusing somebody of being opportunistic…..

In fairness I don’t think Cluid are in it for that sort of deal if you look at their reason for existence. I assume that because they are an association that already exists in this area it was involve them rather than try and set something up from scratch.

Brian Curtin
I can honestly say that I have never heard of this charity before reading this article .
But you know what they say Brian ”Every day is a school day ” Thanks for sharing that .:)
This is why I love forums like this , people are so helpful . I must check out Google too .

That is the problem …..They just do not listen !

I think there is protocol for a mortgage transfer but it would most likely require some form of massive payment.

I assume that its just AIB that is involved in the pilot scheme but that other banks would be involved if the scheme was extended. However what isn’t clear is whether participation in the scheme is voluntary on the banks’ behalf.

I understand what you are saying now Eileen. That is full debt forgiveness. As somebody who is struggling at the moment, I’d be quite happy to have that option. But I do know lots of people who never bought houses who think full debt forgiveness rewards people who took out crazy mortgages. I’m not agreeing with them but I do have a certain understanding of their point of view.

I too am wondering what arrangment exists between the tenant and Cluid. Of course a person with a family might want some form of locked in arrangement assuming that it works both ways (i.e they can’t leave but Cluid also can’t make them leave).

Well Sid they are not opportunistic scheemers for a start as I was told earlier
and I was told to google it which I did ,
Basically they are advertised as a charity who help people who are homeless, and elderly, and rent to buy ,
I just do not know why nor can I see the necessity of this middle man . The bank is still going to get money either way…..
The mind boggles .

And by the way.

The media and their ”sponsors” are the only ones that really have a problem with the homeowner getting bailed out.

It’s their little scheme to wind people up and divert the attention away from the real theft and corruption in our government and banks.

Have you heard any of your neighbors being glad that a family gets kicked out of their home?

I agree Gavin.

Cluid are sharp, shrewd, opportunist, discreet, buy to let landlords.

They will buy their €220,000 loan from AIB for a pittance so that they can make a killing on the rent.
They will be funded to the hilt by our banks to do this.

It’s strange that these Sale and Leaseback schemes were outlawed a few years ago in the U.K. where this Cluid company originated from?