This is stupid. Surely it should be about who is best up to the job? What if we end up in a situation where a man who is far more qualified than a woman for a position can’t run because of quotas. This is going to create equality, the only thing its going to do is water down democracy.

This isn’t equal rights though. The equal rights is been allowed to run in the election. In your typical 5 seater general election. If a party is competing for 3 seats one candiate has to be male/female. What if at the party selection convention 3 people off the same sex get the highest number off votes ? Encourage women and minority groups into politics but this is not democratic.

So at a party selection convention if they are 3 places on the ticket. One has too be a woman, and one has to be a man. What happens if 3 women/men have the most votes. I want tall people to be properly represented and gingers too…. Its upto the parties too attract more women into their parties and it should be a level playing field

Does this apply to independents too? In the last election the proportion of female independent candidates was similar to party ones..

I would deliberately not vote for someone who’s only there to satisfy a quota.

Electorally, this will favour bigger parties like FG most – They can run multiple candidates in individual constituencies, “sweepers” and so forth to attract a vote but not win.

For smaller parties it’s far more difficult if they don’t have the female candidates who’ve built themselves a vote, as running additional candidates can split your ticket and lose a chance of a seat in the marginal PR-STV system, where small swings win and lose seats.

There’s always something behind a move like this.

I wonder would women’s groups similarly support university quotas to assure equal admission and graduation rates from key faculties…law, medicine, business?

Or would they regard that as sexism?

Sexism …..

Eligibility for election should have absolutely nothing to do with one’s genitalia or reproductive organs. One should be selected or elected on merit alone.

I do not want our money to be used to enforce sexism.

I am cringing! this is an example of a strategy that discredits equality. People should be given equal chance of running for election irrespective of gender soon we will have to update the leglislation again to cater for the other 7 grounds for discrimination!! When will the politico get it right … It’s not the gender of a candidate that counts l it is the quality attitude understanding knowledge qualification and experience of a candidate that counts … surely we know this after the state the country is in after being run by moppets.

What muck, serious muck. That is all.

Should every school that doesn’t have 30% male teachers be penalised?

Half the Irish electorate are of either gender.
No Irish politician has ever been elected because of their gender.
No Irish politician has been refused a nomination by their Party because of their gender.
All Irish political parties are equally open to either gender.
No politician in Ireland has ever been described as successful or otherwise because of their gender.
No evidence exists to suggest that more representation of either gender would improve democracy.
All previous political failures could be blamed on one gender due to over representation of that gender.
Either gender would consider such a finding as preposterous.
All Irish Political Parties will be encouraged to discriminate to avoid losing funding as a result of this legislation.
None of this will motivate either gender to participate politically as underlying support measures are absent.
Please consider the foregoing as POETRY.

If your the only Black, Gay, Female, Islamist in the area, hold tough there cupcake, as soon you’ll be guaranteed a spot on each of the parties ticket. You could be a “rainbow” candidate!!!!

I find gender discrimination to be rank in the workplace in ireland, I have personally experienced it and seen my highly intelligent and able female colleagues subjected to it. however, I cannot agree with this move. it does seem to be a contrived process where the outcome might in the very least be undemocratic. if a woman wants to be a part of politics, it should be allowed to happen without restraint, and based on ability and the people’s word. But this move might harm such women, when people will say, oh well she got elected because they needed to reach the quota. When nothing should distract from the fact that it was merit, not because she has a vagina!

Next they will want women driving instructors…… This is getting dangerously outa hand!!!

This is nearly as moronic as one of it sponsors , the fine geal one , mitchell the lady who tried to drive into Leinster house. Reality is women need to get more interested on politics , lets face it there is no shortage of smart women in Ireland , they have been wiping the floor with boys in school and third level for years now,but there does seem to be an aversion to politics , maybe it’s justified apathy but lets not cheapen ourselves with a retrograde step and introduce stupid quotas

This is a step backwards. Don’t see how other women cant see that! Instead of being there because they are the best candidate they’ll be there because they’re women.

I dont think there is any lack of ambitious women running look at Lucy Creten – more balls than most of the men in the dail but lacks a brain. Mind you she also has a neck like a certain Beverly Flynn( now there is a few necks rolled into one big brass neck)
Do we need more Beverly’s? Comment please.

I fear this will make life harder for female TDs as their opponents will say “don’t listen to her, she’s only here to make up numbers”. Quotas are just another form of sexism. Equality means judging people as individuals not by their sex!

easy… easy now…….. surely it’s a bit late the Mna wish to retrain the pups!

What if you only field one candidate?

But why would it be for no other reason? Its only 30% do you really think there are that few women out there? Thy wont be able to show their value? I know the quotas aren’t perfect but the percentage of female representatives is going down not up, I agree with most of what you are saying and if the numbers were going in the right direction I would be inclined to agree totally but they are not. And as for quotas for race/faith/sexuality as have been mentioned in many posts I would just point out that these are minorities not 50% of our population.

It’s terrifying how childish and patronising this debate has become. People say they don’t want to be forced to vote for one gender or another? When I look at my voting card and it’s 90% male where is my choice? People are saying women are allowed to join the parties, we have equal opportunities? If so why have we got one of the lowest gender balances in the world? There is more to equality than legally allowing someone to participate, there has to be a cultural of support for that person. We aspire to be what we can see for the most part and if our girls and young women only ever see middle and upper class men participating in politics how can we encourage them to see it as a system which is open to all citizens, yes there are plenty of intelligent and committed women in Ireland so if the legal right to enter politics has left them unrepresented in our government we need to ask why? At the end of the day we live in a patriarchal society, this means sometimes we need to structure systems to rebalance what appears on the surface to be an organic lean in one direction, until society can correct itself and operate without that structure. No one will be forced to vote for a “token” woman and to give the example of a party with 10 great female candidates having to take 3 token men is really not helpful, this is about getting the best person for the job, so unless you believe that we have seen the only suitable female candidates in our government or that in a constituency of 50% women you would have to accept token girls, how else do u suggest we change our culture of male dominated politicians.

Lucy Creten hopefully is a one off. If we were to be left with more like her as a result of the quota system then I suggest an amendment to the proposal.
Any woman being proposed for election must go through a test to determine that they have some sort of brain and an test designed to test appetiser for the job EG 1+1 = ? Lucy is challanges on the intellect and integrity stakes. She also has the potential to end up like the rest of the Fat Cats – Fat on the sacrifices of the poor people. Bring back Mary Robinson – a real Lady with integrity and intelligence. The test should apply to the men also.

There seems to be an assumption here that women will always be less qualified than their male counterparts. There also seems to be an assumption that there is gender equality in politics in Ireland and that it is just as simple for women to run as it is for men, yet if that were true why is there such a dearth of women in Irish politics? It is not because women naturally have less interest in politics than men but because women face more barriers in life than men. Nobody is thrilled that we live in a world where we have to resort to quotas to force people to accept equality but we need to level the playing field somehow.

As a side note, a vagina does not a woman make.

Gender quotas. Where to begin. Been here and said it all already. Well aware I’m in for a bashing but that’s never bothered me tbh.

I’m delighted quotas are going to be introduced but fgs I’m not going to start men bashing, I’ve always made it quite clear I love Irish men and am an equalist (my word) and would defend men’s rights too. I believe in equality but not sameness. It’s the differences in people I love.

I don’t think Irish men judge a person by their sex. I have always believed this and believe it even more reading comments on the Journal. Read the comments on the recent thread re sportsperson of the year where all the men voted for Katie Taylor. Read the comments above and for them gender is not an issue.

More that more female representation in the Dáil will lead to more balance. There is not enough balance at the moment. I want to see more normal women in the Dáil and not just the “push to the front” tough ole birds, not the Thatchers and Harneys. No more of them please. I can’t even bear to think about them!!! This might force the parties to look beyond them hopefully. Ye don’t have to vote for them. No quotas in the voting booth!

Just saying I’m delighted…

Let’s go back to the beginning of this thread. Half the electorate in Ireland are Women and in election after election have never ever shown that they are prepared to vote on gender grounds to assist in redressing the obvious imbalance in our Parliament.
This proposed legislation is totally incapable of doing anything other than damaging the finances of Political Parties while also offering a massive insult to democracy through discrimination at selection conventions.
In many respects it reminds me of the smoking ban which was created by the thought police in response to personal bias and the gross misuse of an artificial majority.
Much of the debate and even the legislation has been developed without the slightest scintilla of reasoning or sociological study as to whether Women have the slightest wish to enter representational politics in Ireland or the type of supports that may be appropriate given any barriers that are identified.
No let’s just crash through the barriers and let the damaged bystanders find their own trolleys in the corridors of our current National Emergency System.

I am surprised at the resistance to a very good idea expressed by comments here. Why should I be though – there was as much it more resistantance to giving women the vote, saying it was undemocratic, not good for women etc. As they say in some Journal quizzes ‘Why can’t we all just get along’ and give women a fair chance of engaging in the political process. They may not be any better but at I an sure they will not be any worse.

Wake up! It’s a brilliant idea. They are talking about 30% for both genders! There is something wrong (which can be addressed) when 85% of seats are filled by one gender. Balance is beauty. I’m delighted.

If women wish to stand for election then they should. For many women politics is an undesirable career choice. For women who have a family it would be difficult to travel up to Leinster House. Yes women should hold the same rank as men. Maybe if we had a female Taoiseach then we might not be in this mess. This legislation is a waste. Should the Government be introducing legislation to deal with the banks etc.

Niamh – thank you for your comment. I agree with you & I hope you and others won’t be discouraged by the fact that the majority of voters & commenters here express their opposition.

You ask a powerful question: “… why have we got one of the lowest gender balances in the world?”
And you rightly refer to the need for a “culture of support” – which I take to be shorthand for a society which is not stuck in outmoded assumptions & patters of power which have existed ever since parliamentary democracy was first introduced in Ireland.

I have a 6 year old daughter – do I want her growing up in a society where men control all the law-making? Do I want her growing up in an Ireland where she’ll take in subconsciously & consciously the notion that the political realm is for men? What sort of a parent would I be if that was the legacy I wished for her?

How many here understand what you mean by a “patriarchal society”? I suspect that many accept their society as it is. Many probably don’t question their own assumptions. If we were to start with a blank page & design a political system for Ireland that required late nights, away from home and new entrants to overcome the difficulty of a different gender dominating all decision-making, we would be accused of bias, I think.

You say “This is about getting the best person for the job…” I have a different view – I think this is about reaching for a situation where men & women will equally take responsibility for our laws. Men and women in equal proportions determining the fundamental framework within which citizens live…

I regard all chatter about “the best person for the job” as a figleaf for view that seeks to perpetuate the tradition of male domination of Irish politics. [I hasten to add that I know you're not in that camp.] Those who present themselves under the banner of “the best person” may not be aware of how easy it is for people to see where they stand. We are used to people presenting conservative views under the guise of radicalism.

You end on a great note: “how else do you suggest we change our culture of male dominated politicians.” Let’s see what people have to say to that challenge. Those who mean well & are genuinely in favour of greater equality must have realised already that their strategy has failed. After the fiddling around has failed, after the political parties have failed to achieve a half-satisfactory balance, the time for quotas has come.

Tough. Yes, it’s tough. Quotas are a crude measure that seems to be the only way to leap forward in my lifetime. I’ll be dead otherwise before my daughter will have a society fit for her to influence fully. She is entitled to better. And I don’t want to die ashamed of the culture that prevailed in Irish national law-making.

It’s a pity to have the last word here – gender quotas are on the way for Irish national elections – the big issue may be whether Fianna Fail will push strongly for quotas in local government elections?
I met Michael Martin while we were both doing Xmas shopping in Cork : he said it was most important to get quotas introduced for local elections.

Let’s hope citizens have a big debate about this.

God the sexism here. Everyone knows its far more difficult for a women to get to a high level in politics. Think this is a good start but doesn’t go far enough

Don’t see the point if quotas. The candidate should have the necessary skills and knowledge for politics and not be of a specific gender.

What I find repugnant about this measure is that it may force parties to overturn the results of their own democratically convened selection conventions. It’s an elitist, academic measure which can’t but damage grassroots democracy….

N

What is vincent browne doing in that photo?

As I was cleaning the kitchen, I remembered a key point. Without it, my position on the question of gender equality in Irish political life is unclear.

Men have been poorly served by the domination of politics by men. Men have a huge interest in change. We men stand to gain from the increased entry of women into politics.

I realise that I am simply asserting my case – rather than support it by argument. This is deliberate – I’m interested in finding out whether there are others here for whom this case resonates.

Frankly I am bored by such a crowd of male politicians: the conversation of much less interesting than it would by if there was normal diversity of gender. I want to turn on the TV and see women & men in the chamber and committees. I value diversity.

Men are used to having to deal with women. We have to listen to the views of women in many arenas, especially at home. But the political caste isn’t used to hearing the voices of women in the chamber, the council meeting, and sub-committees. Obviously I’m not thinking of what it’s like to listen to one or two women – but having to listen to as many women as men. We’ll all be served better when we live in a system that smells of equality of representation.

As Kathleen Lynch, Minister, said recently at a public meeting organised by The 50:50 Group: “I’m fed up voting for mediocre men, I want to vote for mediocre women”.

PS – May I add that I also agree with the points made by Nichola Salmon, Mark O’Neill, Réada Quinn, Julia Smith, Jim Mackessy, Andrew McGabhann & Niamh White (hoping I’ve not left anyone out).