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Dublin: 7 °C Saturday 18 May, 2013

Germany’s Catholics told to pay church tax or no sacraments

Anyone who does not pay between eight and 10 per cent of income tax to the church will no longer be able to receive sacraments or become a godparent.

The Bamberg Cathedral in Bamberg, Germany. (File photo)
The Bamberg Cathedral in Bamberg, Germany. (File photo)
Image: Michael Probst/AP/Press Association Images

GERMANY’S ROMAN CATHOLICS who refuse to pay a church tax will be barred from receiving the sacraments or becoming a godparent, under controversial new restrictions entering into force today.

In a move decried by a progressive Catholic group, the German bishops’ conference last week issued a decree, saying it was “worried” about the Catholic Church’s dwindling numbers and wanted to stem the decline.

Confession, Holy Communion, confirmation in the Church or anointing of the sick – unless the patient’s life is in danger – are now out of bounds for anyone who leaves the Church, the decree which took effect today stated.

Becoming a godparent is also off-limits, it said.

Germany has had a system in place since the 19th century of asking residents to either officially declare their religion and pay a church tax, or to be classed as “non-religious”.

A change in status from being a member of a religion requires a formal procedure to “leave the Church”, as an increasing number of Germans have done, mostly from the Catholic Church but also from the Protestant faith.

The levy amounts to between eight and 10 per cent of income tax, depending on where the person lives.

Paedophile scandals

Last year, some 126,488 Catholics turned their back on the Church, after 181,000 did the same in 2010, official figures showed.

A report in April 2011 showed that paedophile priest scandals in Germany had contributed to the 40-per cent rise in the number of Catholics leaving the Church a year earlier.

Since early 2010 and in common with other countries, Germany has been hit by revelations that hundreds of children were physically and sexually abused in institutions, all but a handful run by the Roman Catholic Church.

Although the new decree permits a religious marriage for anyone who has left the Church, it stipulates two conditions – an okay from the local religious authorities and a promise to keep the faith and uphold the religious education of any children in the Catholic faith.

However the bishops’ decree said that “if the person who has left the Church has not displayed any regret before their death, a religious burial may be refused.”

Reaction to the decree has been divided.

Vatican support

Theodor Bolzenius, spokesman for the Central Committee of German Catholics, told AFP they were pleased that the move had been formalised “with explicit support from the Vatican”.

But the progressive “We Are Church” (“Wir Sind Kirche”) Catholic movement criticised it, saying: “It’s a bad decree coming at a bad time.”

“Instead of tackling the reasons for Church-leaving in large numbers, this bishops’ decree is a threat to the people of the Church and is not going to motivate people to remain loyal or to join the community of those who pay their church tax,” it said in a statement.

The Sueddeutsche Zeitung daily said it sent a “disastrous” signal and was aimed more at saving the Church’s finances, while Die Welt said the bishops should be aware they risked appearing “ruthless”.

On Wednesday a German court is due to rule in a case involving a canonist, Hartmut Zapp, from Freiburg who declared in 2007 that he would no longer pay his church taxes but insisted he remained a church member.

Germany’s population of nearly 82 million is about one third Catholic and one third Protestant.

The Protestant Church in Germany has no similar plans, a spokeswoman said.

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Comments (149 Comments)

  • As an atheist, obviously I think its completely ridiculous but for the people who want to pay it, for their beliefs, 8-10% of their income is an insane amount to be asking for! There won’t be many Catholics left in Germany….

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    • While no great defender of the church, the tax of 9% is on your taxes paid, not your gross income (ie, if you pay tax of €100, €9 goes to the church.)

      Still, the Catholic Church in Germany makes something like €5 billion (tax free) a year from this tax. Based on Germany’s population of 25 million Catholics, those 126,488 who left last year cost the church €25 million in lost earnings that year alone. Suddenly I can see the route of their concern…

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    • What does the church even do with all the money?

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    • Aye Malboury but maybe if they stopped raping kids and covering it up they wouldn’t need to issue this “tax”. I wonder how much of this money collected will be used to silence victims of abuse. I hope the bastards choke on it

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  • If they impose taxes they should pay tax

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  • Sounds like a bonus…..

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  • God is all powerful, creator of all things. Needs cash !

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  • Just when you think this institution cannot get any worse.

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  • Seeing as the Vatican closed the countmeout.ie Catholic church exit procedure, can we use the German process to become happy apostates?And where’s Almar & Condulmer lately?

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  • The most serious aspect of this story was the threat that one could not work in a Catholic school if one defected.

    Imagine how many teachers and nurses would have to be fired under this logic if it applied fully here. This would apply even if you were a history teacher or a PE teacher etc. with no religious brief.

    A (relatively) weaker, though still serious type of discrimination does apply here where gay teachers can be fired even though their salaries are paid for by the state. A teacher’s religiousness is often ‘tested’ in interviews though lies are both readily given and accepted.

    If State money supports a school, it should be prevented from engaging in discriminatory practices and the values taught there should support the mental and physical health of all who work/ learn there, not undermine it.

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  • Seems fair – the quid pro quo should also be no tax and no child abuse

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  • Great idea, they should introduce it here too, nobody will pay and they will have to cease trading!

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  • “Worried about dwindling numbers and want to stop the decline ” ….. Yes… Threaten the people with this and they will surly stick with us. Thanks be to GOD I’m an atheist

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  • I almost wish this tax was brought into Ireland, people could finally ‘sign out’ of being Catholic, and we can enjoy the milestones in our lives, and our children’s lives, without pretending to believe in the great tea-cup in the sky, just to ‘get into schools’ etc.

    It actually amazes me the kind-of attitude in Ireland: ”I’m not catholic but I participate in all catholic rituals which mark a persons life and death”. What??

    I guess it’s because the Church is careful not to trumpet their actual belief system too loudly, so people don’t mind being loosely associated with Catholicism because it seems harmless.

    If they had minarets chanting out the ten commandments, along with a healthy dose of ”don’t use condoms” and ”down with homosexuals” every morning on the commute in perhaps people would change, but for now the church is like a de-clawed cat.

    Don’t forget that if the church could impose it’s belief system on you, it would, the same as was done in the past, and rather the same as Islam appears to be doing now, with the efforts for Sharia law to supersede national law.

    And yet this country (or maybe the media, who still thinks we all care) still courts the priesthood on their views and policies, allow them to meddle in education and politics, and lets the church cling feverishly onto the moral high ground and ahem..pontificate.

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    • Very well said. As a non-Christian, I’ve actually more respect for Catholics who stand up and are counted with regards to the, ahem, “less progressive” parts of their belief. I think those beliefs are crazy and can be damaging, but at least they’re not shifting the goalposts of their belief depending in whether its comfortable for them or not.

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    • Dukezeal, in the first half of your comment you say that the Church is careful not to “trumpet” their beliefs, but then go on later to talk about the Church being allowed to “pontificate.” Which is it?

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  • I don’t see the problem; believers will have to put their money where their mouths are and the fence-sitters have a financial incentive to decide if they really are Catholic or not. Religious taxes are the law in Germany and are part of your tax bill. If you don’t want to pay, don’t buy.

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  • Jesus only lost his temper and evicted from the Temple the tax gatherers and the hypocrites!

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    • He evicted moneylenders and was friends with a tax collecter. Generally accepted as a good move.#Atheists read the bible

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    • censored 25/09/12 #

      He had a few things to say about “whited sepulchres” in that book (#atheist who read the bible)

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    • There’s nothing wrong with collecting money at mass on Sunday. People generally don’t give a huge amount- usually less than the price of a pint, I’d guess. I’m sure others are more generous. I have to say that I’ve never felt pressured to give anything. In our parish, the roof of the church is badly damaged and a new parish lotto is being launched to raise funds. If you donate, you’re in with a chance to win a substantial prize. Every organisation raises money to pay wages, pay for buildings, heating, lighting, etc. Who would pay if it wasn’t the people who use the facilities? We all want the church to be clean, warm and inviting for our weddings, baptisms, communions and other events. That doesn’t happen without some financial input.

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  • Are they for real?

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  • have you ever heard such a load of crap.. religious Blackmail is all it is…

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  • Living on a very different planet
    Pay to pray !
    Fined in Confessions for sins!
    No money ,no Holy Bread !
    No chance of salvation if you’re poor !

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  • I’d rather take my chances with eternal damnation, thank you very much.

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  • Resel 24/09/12 #

    “You received free, give free. “

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  • If they wish to charge a tax make them pay tax. “Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar’s”. So sayeth The Lord.

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    • I’m very much a disgruntled catholic from maybe 3 years ago annoyed by all the abuse story’s and passing it off by a few bad eggs , I’m now at the stage where I can see the Vatican could not give a shite about its followers but only to its power , I now describe myself as Christian , I wish the Irish church would break away from this monarchy , allow female priests and also allow marriage

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    • Ryan'O 24/09/12 #

      Join the dark side and come to Sunday service church of Ireland stylie, where we sing, have the craic and tea afterwards. Lovely female rev and her husband do a great job getting the kids involved, little play area down the back for those who rather colour or jigsaw. Since marriage I have converted and never looked back!

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    • @ryan I would but I don’t want to go to hell …. Lol :)

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    • Mjhint 24/09/12 #

      Darren join the enlightened. Just turn on your computer & see the growth in the free thinking society around the world. Listen to Sam Harris, Christopher Hitchens, Prof Dawkins, Aronra, the atheist experience & see we dont have heaven or hell because Earth & the cosmos is more than enough. We wont force or threaten you just accept you no matter who you are. There are also a lot of other groups around Ireland. We cant save your soul but we can save your energy & time wasted on the supernatural.

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    • I’m setting up a new internet soul saving service. 10 quid for one, discounts for bulk purchases. Any takers?

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  • i’d pay……to put them all in a big rocket and launch them into the sun!

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  • Sounds like they are taking a leaf out of scientology…… The more you pay the more you advance to state of…… Ummmm something or other.

    I just find it hilarious that Jesus kicked out the jewish moneylenders at the Temple for charging for their religious rites. Mmmmmm history repeating methinks.

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  • (Irish-Catholic background myself) Irish-Catholics should have formed their own church back centuries ago; instead of protesting England by remaining Catholic. No logic in trading one tyrannt for another. Who supported William of Orange? Who told King Henry to invade Ireland and civilize the “barbarian” Irish? The Catholic Church/Pope/Vatican. The Catholic Church was never Ireland’s friend; they never helped the Irish-Catholics while they were being persecuted/killed. It’s great we evicted the Vatican Embassy out of Dublin. Yet the Catholic Church doesn’t understand why European Catholicism is dead and why American Catholics are flocking to other churches.

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    • It was actually the Irish embassy IN the Vatican (and Tehran and East Timor) that were closed. Archbishop Charles Brown is still Apostolic Nuncio in Ireland.

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    • Spot on !!

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    • @Philip – Same thing. Ireland closed its Embassy in the Vatican due to the Church’s handling of Preists raping children. Also how they dismiss their crimes because they are the superior Roman Catholic Church and the Irish people should just get over it and shut up. The Vatican was “upset” and “outraged” over the Embassy closure; who cares? They are worse than self-proclaimed criminals. @Darren- Thanks!

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    • @Kevin If just the embassy in the Vatican were closed then you might be able to use that argument but the other two missions were also closed. The Tanaiste has stated financial reasons.

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    • @Philip- Gilmore is a fool, so I don’t take what he says serious to begin with. The closures were in response to the Cloyne Report; Enda Kenny? Yes economic reasons of course are a reason, but they chose specifically the Vatican on purpose. The Vatican did make sure to cover their tracks in torturing/raping children. That’s a pretty good reason to choose the Vatican out of all countries. Relations between the Vatican and Ireland have anyway deteriorated and will never be the same. The Catholic Church’s influence/domination over the ROI is done. Look at Spain (Roman Catholic) and how they felt about the Pope visiting.

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    • I am not so sure about the end of influence of the Catholic Church in Ireland. The recent attendance at the Congress in Dublin has proven otherwise (and there were a lot of younger people there); also the standing ovation which the Pope received for his broadcast message in Croke Park has shown the respect and esteem in which he is held.

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    • mr x 24/09/12 #

      @Phillip, sorry but you are delusional if the recent eucharistic congress gave you hope. To most people it just showed how far the Catholic church has fallen in Ireland. Compare it to the visit of the Pope in 1979 and the huge crowds of people at the mass in the phoenix park and in Galway. In just one generation the Church has been rendered irrelevant to the majority of irish people, that is the reality as hard as it may be for you to take.

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    • The ‘respect and esteem’ in which he’s held? lol! Clutching at straws there! Maybe by those in attendance in Croke Park that day, but not by the general public in my opinion!

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    • The respect and esteem in Croke Park? LOL literally preaching to the converted!

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    • I still consider myself Irish-Catholic by my background but that doesn’t mean I am Catholic or like the Catholic Church. I am Atheist. Most Irish-Catholics are not even practicing Catholics or religious in anyway. Most Irish who identify as Catholic are not really Catholic by beliefs or church attendance. Most of France identify as Catholic but do not attend mass daily, consider themselves practicising Catholics, or believe in a God. My mother is Irish-Catholic but attends a non-Denomanational Church instead of a Catholic Church. Many people just identify as Catholic or whatever because it’s their background. The Pope gets a standing ovation most places he visits because he is famous and people are just intrigued by a world figure. Mass (Catholic) attendance has dramatically dropped in Ireland and Catholicism’s membership is dropping as well throughout the world. (Why do you think the Catholic Church spended millions on ads in the US? Catholics are joining other churches or are just no longer religious). Many Catholics in Ireland have joined the Church of Ireland or other denominations; thats why they have reported membership growth. Why do you keep defending the Catholic Church? Many Irish people still attend Catholic mass and consider themselves Catholic but they don’t defend the Vatican.

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    • @mr x: my comment did not state that the Congress gave me hope; but it does show that the Catholic Church is still an important part of Irish society. Also the Statio Orbis in Croke Park was only one part of the Congress – there were many thousands of people of all ages at the other events including the Pilgrim Walk.
      We cannot compare the 1979 visit of Pope John Paul II to an event where the pontiff is not present.

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    • @Kevin: I take your points and while I don’t agree with you it is good to see some people still research their arguments.
      I defend the Catholic Church because I am a Catholic and I know that priests (and nuns) do a great deal of good work in small communities that generally goes unseen. There are very few jobs which have someone on 24/7 call.
      I do acknowledge that child abuse in any form perpetrated by anyone is absolutely unquestionably terrible and wrong and those responsible should be held to account. I do feel that the Church gets an unbalanced amount of criticism.

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    • @Philip – Thanks. I agree that there are Priests/Nuns that do a great deal of good and I in no way have anything against them. The media in general rarely will report stories that involve charity, good deeds, decency, etc. people aren’t interested unfortunately in good stories. But the criticism the Catholic Church gets, I believe it deserves 99% of it. Especially based off of their history and current positions in certain areas. I don’t have a problem with those of faith or feel the need to mock those who believe in a God or whatever; I do however have a problem with organized religion. I understand the Catholic Church has done a lot of charity but that does not justify all the pain/misery they have caused that last 1000 years (including today as well). What they are doing in Germany is really passed low.

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    • I think the turn out for the Eucharistic Congress was huge given that it was a working week and that the tickets weren’t cheap. The youth space was a big hit and was packed every day. There were long queues for all the talks and presentations. Interesting that there was very poor coverage in the media apart from one brilliant, evenly- reported Nationwide. If it had been a big Atheist or secular event it would have been headline news with gushing reports about the thousands who attended. The Church is very much alive and is experiencing a growth among young people if people just take the time to look. Don’t depend on the popular media though; you’ll have to do your own research.

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  • Indulgence!

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  • An idiot tax – they should have more of these.

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  • From the late, awesomely great George Carlin:

    “When it comes to bullshit, big-time, major league bullshit, you have to stand in awe of the all-time champion of false promises and exaggerated claims, religion. No contest. No contest. Religion. Religion easily has the greatest bullshit story ever told. Think about it. Religion has actually convinced people that there’s an invisible man living in the sky who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever ’til the end of time!

    But He loves you. He loves you, and He needs money! He always needs money! He’s all-powerful, all-perfect, all-knowing, and all-wise, somehow just can’t handle money! Religion takes in billions of dollars, they pay no taxes, and they always need a little more. Now, you talk about a good bullshit story. Holy Shit! “

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    • Haha, Class

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    • Love it love it love it when’s the movie coming??

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    • What on earth does that quote have to do with the German state collecting Church tax??

      Why do you care anyway? If people believe Bagpuss wants them to give all their money to an old man in a red hat who then burns it in his backgarden, why do you give a damn?

      You might find believing in the invisible man as crazy but I find it equally crazy that thejournal seems to have a congregation of people with nothing else to do but bang on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on about something they don’t believe in. I suppose it’s a hobby of sorts, coming here to proclaim the Truth and unlease their rightous anger on the unenlightened and clap each other on the back. But wouldn’t jogging be a healther outlet?

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    • Sounds more like politics to me! Just replace religion with the word politics and it makes a lot more sense!

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  • Yes – tithes from the Church of Ireland.
    But the Church of Rome taxed people in England, Ireland and Scotland before the Act of Supremacy.
    So there is a precedent here.

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  • A church tax??? Are they having a laugh? Imposing restrictions on what catholics are entitled to if they dont pay a tax to the church is a joke, especially with all that has come out over the past few years.

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  • Tithes and indulgences, seems like the catholic church is damned to repeat the mistakes of the past. Bring it on I say.

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  • Of course the Vatican welcomes this new move.
    On one hand they say “All money is evil” – and on the other they say “Give it to us!”

    Its the usual double-standards from this corrupt org.

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  • Hey everybody the catholic church pays no tax to any government it’s apparently a charity organisation
    and is exempt from paying taxes so hey might just start up my own religious group any ideas???

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    • Yes, you can. But you need a place of worship, a certain amount of members and an examination of your creed before you’ll get tax-exemption. The Church of Satan in California was essentially set-up as a tax haven for the founder and his Hollywood friends. Funnily enough, if you put down Satanist on your tax forms in Germany, there’s already a religious organisation ready to take a cut if your tax. Someone’s also trying to set up a Jedi church for exactly the same reason.

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  • Excellent. If you want to be in the club you have to pay the fees. Now let’s see how many are REALLY catholic. Bye bye C C

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  • It’s one way to empty parishes and put yourself out of a job!!!!!!

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  • One does not need a formal religion to follow the message of the Christ. If I remember he was appalled at the money lenders at the temple not long before he was put to death for speaking out against the status quo. The catholic church is one of the wealthiest corporations on the planet. If Christ were to see the behaviour of today’s catholic church who happened to hijack his message and use it to build a money making machine he would be sick. The catholic church is in decline because people no longer believe in a god of FEAR. There is no doubt people need direction, but the message needs to be re packaged for the 21st century.
    Have to say tough that to live by the message of Christ as told in the sermon on the mount would be living to ones full potential !!!!!

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  • If you want the big church wedding, your kids to go to the good schools in your area, make thousands from their communion and confo, then be prepared to pay the membership fee to get those perks.

    The alternative is to stop being a hypocrite and stop attending mass altogether, rather than on rare occasions like christmas, or a school mass.

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    • I agree with you fully. In theory.
      But the problem is schools. My area has 3 catholic schools and one church of Ireland school. Not much option there.
      Seeing as taxpayers pay teacher wages, religion should be removed from all public schools.

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    • Smiley 24/09/12 #

      What a load of rubbish. If you want the big wedding then institute a marriage celebrant system that doesn’t require church or registry office. If you want good schools then get the church out and let really committed educationalists in. At the very least you’ll gain 10% more teaching time with the removal of religious indoctrination.

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    • There is such a thing as a small Church wedding. The hotel is the expensive part and paying for a meal for a hundred or more guests. Not all kids collect thousands and that has absolutely nothing to do with the Church; in fact. the Church discourages this practice. If there is a lack of choice in education, the answer is to cater to various preferences rather than to try to impose a one-size-fits-all solution. People who want denominational education are tax payers too.

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  • I’d have thought that the church lotto every week would keep them afloat!!

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  • They need the money badly to finance their legal expenses.

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  • Religion is a scourge on the human species , until we free ourselves from its stranglehold we will always be afraid

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  • TOT 25/09/12 #

    When my husband and I got married five years ago in the US the church told us the recommended amount to pay weekly was 10% of our wages and if we wanted to set up a direct debit, that suggestion went down like a lead balloon! We would be lucky if we could put 10% into savings.
    Faced the same bs again when I was asked to be god parent.. Money racket, no wonder they are the wealthiest organization in the world!
    I have no problem giving money when I attend church but they should be grateful for couple dollars of every member.

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    • There are precious few people giving 10% of their wages to the Church so I don’t know what they’re complaining about. In fact, here in Ireland, no one is forced to pay anything. In fact, money is rarely mentioned at all.

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  • pjbrowne 25/09/12 #

    before i would give them between 8% to 10% of my wages what is the church giving the German people

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  • Proof religion is all about money!

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  • If such places as Heaven and Hell exists (Logical they don’t maybe in Moronville ) I’d choose Hell better company plus strippers.

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  • Far from separating church and state, the Germans interfere in the affairs of all denominations. The religious tax is diabolical and ought to be witheld by all citizens irregardless of church membership.
    What earthly right does any government have to oblige it’s citizens to pay a fixed amount of income to a religious institution, merely for declaring membership? I’d say the RCC in Germany has overplayed it’s hand. I hope they lose millions and millions of that which they love most i.e. money

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    • Eh, citizens are not “obliged” to pay.
      It’s optional.

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    • Ruth is right in that you’re not forced to choose a Religion in Germany, so, unless you choose a Religion, you are not obliged to pay taxes to that religion. But it’s also true that in Germany, just as in the US, the deprecation if Church and State is been ignored in many schools. I know this from relatives of mine in Germany. Their kids attend state school in a middle-class area which officially must be neutral towards differing beliefs, but in practise most teachers are Christian and push Christian beliefs and values. When they complained, their complaints were ignored. Middle-class “respectable” Germany is a Christian Germany, and the the most powerful party in their coalition government is the CDU, the Christian Democratic Party, so my German-based family don’t expect any neutrality on religious issues anytime soon.

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    • @Saintruth I commented that if one wishes to remain a member of a church one is obliged to pay. The article describes a man in the process of suing the state over the obligatory nature of the tax. I am a member of a church and we give offerings voluntarily and in secret – the amount known only between man and God. That is the proper way, not through state coercion.

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  • Niall 24/09/12 #

    No mention of faith, or God’s love here!
    The sh*ts expose themselves as caring only about money, money, money. Hit them where it hurts, take their cash away!!

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  • They were “worried about the decline in numbers” so the introduced a new tax ….maybe just maybe this is not going to help…

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  • Jaysus, and there was me a few months ago trying to leave the Catholic church without any success.

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  • This goes back to the Compact the Vatican made with Hitler. It is the only Hitler contract, not rescinded, by the German government. I would rather pay the state an extra tax to stay the hell out of church.

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  • Resel 24/09/12 #

    (Matthew 21:13) And he said to them: “It is written, ‘My house will be called a house of prayer,’ but YOU are making it a cave of robbers.”

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  • I’ll have a weddin, 2 baptisms and a bag of confession. How much? F@ck that… its cheaper in Islam. And I get to riot…

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  • I have a question as a non christian. Do Catholics in Ireland pay to join their parish church? In my religion (Jewish) we pay small membership fees which covers all life cycle events … Baby blessings, bar/bat mitzvah, weddings & even your funeral is covered. I’m wondering if people feel that all such life cycle events in churches should be free? Maybe cut out the brown envelopes and bring in membership fees for those that want to join a church? I don’t think the state should benefit though … Just the actual church do they can do Sunday school (& therefore take religion out of schools), etc. maybe you do pay fees …. I’m just thinking out loud really!!!

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    • I think the reason for giving money in an envelope is so that people can give what they can afford or nothing at all depending on their circumstances or inclination. We don’t have to pay to join the parish church, but money is collected at mass on Sundays.

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    • Thanks for clarifying Maria … I know some of my friends who got married in recent years were handing hundreds over to the priest which I was shocked by … wonder what the normal amount is in these envelopes!

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  • They have the similar church tax in Sweden.
    The state collects the money directly and gives it to the relevant Church (mainly Lutheran of course).

    If one doesn’t pay the tax, then one cannot get married in a Church or be buried by the Church.

    Seems a rather Nordic arrangement…

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  • Jesus is coming back anyday now(won’t be holding my breath) and his legal bills for the last 2000years of Crimes by his Mafia like Vatican against humanity are going to be very expensive.Let’s all have a whip around or maybe he can get a bailout from the IMF or World Bank.

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  • Please please introduce such a tax over here. We will see just how many closet atheists there really are out there…

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    • Simon, I am an atheist and I am not in any closet I assure you so bringing such a tax to Ireland is totally irrelevant to me .

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    • You missed his point, Mary. Completely.

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    • People identify as Irish-Catholic for multiple reasons; identity, history, culture, etc. Most Irish Atheists are of an (Irish Catholic) background. Many still consider themselves Irish-Catholic for different reasons. Since whether one is religious or not if they are of Irish-Catholic background there is still that sense of pride. Since that was one of the main reasons of persecutions against the Irish who are Catholic. Practising Irish-Catholics aren’t even really Catholic to begin with anymore or ever like the typical mainland European Catholic. If you were to take a poll on so-called “real Catholics” the number would drop from 84% to below 20% most likely. Have a look in the Churches there empty.

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    • What is it Dara O’Briain said? “I’m an atheist, but I’m still Irish Catholic. I don’t believe in God, but I still hate the Rangers”?

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  • must be mick o leary of ryan air moon lighting for them

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  • Barry 24/09/12 #

    Any chance of Ireland getting a tax like this, sounds great! :-)

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  • Ah come on folks… Show your Christian spirit and dig deep for the collection (and not just jingle the collrction tray ;-) ) then they will be able to pay the *holy*water charges. The housing charge and the septic tank charge .

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  • It’s a good idea and I’d like to see it introduced here :D

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  • I also think we should start to tax churches incomes. At least then there contributing in some way to public life other than oppressing peoples rights.

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  • Well i think this is a fantastic idea but for very different reasons that most. Religion is a cancer upon society interfering where it does not belong. This will only serve to help more people turn their backs on this voodoo nonsense which can only benefit society. People don’t believe in Zeus anymore or Quetzalcoatl. Hopefully this will help people just go one god further and scrap the lot all together.

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