They know all this stuff (throwing hands in air) Are they too stubborn to listen to sound advice? do they care? What do they get from forcing this through? They are like small stubborn children trying to force shapes into the wrong holes because in some way it suits them better.

It is a fact that there 3 types of buildings which are never “absolute” and which always need extensions, additions and continuous redevelopment due to never ending new requirements and demands, these are,

1. Universities,
2. Airports,
3. Hospitals.

It is absolute folly and absurd to locate any hospital on a restricted site.

A new hospital MUST be located on a site of at least a minimum of 20 acres (8 Hectares) to ensure it has sufficient space to allow for future expansion. Bord Pleanàla has done this country crucial service in its decision by preventing yet another botched strategic national planning decision. The Matter site is and will never be the right site for a National Children’s Hospital it is too small. It is long past the time for us to start getting our strategic national planning decisions right and look to the future and what we will need in 20 years time.

It is an absolute guarantee on any site that before construction is finished a new alteration, extension or modification will be needed.

When something is wrong from the start it can never be made right.

I think the location of the Mater site is still wrong…
There will always be compromise when building or retro fitting on an existing site and also limiting future expansion.
Not to mention the the traffic issue..
What is the issue with building a TRI located hospital on a more practical accessible green field location ?

I heard Dr Sam Coulter-Smith on Newstalk this morning..
Waffle and spin..
They will twist it every way they can to justify building it on the Mater site.
I’m gob smacked that one of the most important projects to be decided on in decades and to service generations of children in the future appears to be turning into another self serving political cronie decision …

This doesn’t solve the matter if traffic around this area or parking which is a critical issue. It is too busy of an area for additional emergency services to be using.

Surely Tallaght is the ideal site, the Coombe is moving there, loads of space for parking, (the council own land around it) Luas and buses and access from the M50 for Dublin city and the country? What am I missing?

John Crown…get off your arse & try parking in Eccles St..I’ll loan you a sick diabetic child that can puke his head off in your car while your trying to find a parking space…see how that works out on your “pre-eminent” site…let the nuns keep their site..

Theres no where to park around there! Move to the 20 acre suite behind the coombe. Entrance on SCR and Cork St. loacs of parking and near to the M50.

O’ Reilly placed one of his cronies as head if the review committee and this guy already lobbied for the existing site along with the Temple street gang. This guy is also on the board of the HSE and lobbied for the existing site – and O Reilly made him Chairman of the review committee. VESTED INTERESTS AGAIN.

Jesus wish someone would tell these hospitals that it’s not going to happen this site is still wrong due to traffic parking restrictions also the Coombe is not much better with regards access and traffic!

I agree Dave. Mater site is a disaster!

Really Cian..underground parking.fantastic.pity they haven’t a special by-pass in the sky for all the congestion & traffic that you have to get through first though isn’t it?the element of realism & practicality is missing from the argument about this site.patients are not just from Dublin either..there are children living in the far reaches of Ireland who will need specialist treatment..Sure maybe they’ll run the Luas, buses & trains underground too.be great.sure this is Ireland.we do things real well here..

The stink of FF influence is all over this. This was never going to be anywhere else, it was all just a political jerk around to make it look like other options were being seriously considered.

The coombe site would be a better option as the mater site is overcrowded as is, adding another 10 to 15 floors onto it may create a state of the art hospital but it will not solve the infrastructure issue unless the government close mountjoy and knock it and turn that into a parking lot. Even if they do that the problem of traffic within the whole area is still going to be an issue.
Anyway a greenfield site is possibly the best option as the coombe in its present state should be bulldozed and rebuilt completely.

Another clear example of Ireland’s ineptness in project selection and wasting an opportunity to better the lives of our citizens.

The Matter? Is madness. I’ve been unfortunate enough to have to attend the matter and it’s a complete nightmare. There is no parking, not only is this a major issue for patients but also anyone wishing to visit. You need to walk about 20 mins away to park and that costs a fortune. It just doesn’t make any sense whatsoever.

When selecting a project of this scale any rookie will need to run a set of issue and risk analysis. As well as cost benefit and return of investment. Access, parking, response, time, cost and adaptability for future growth are all major issues (things that exist already) while the risks are to people’s health and well being (things that may be an issue).

For too long Ireland has selected projects based on what is the easiest option, who they know, influence, status while sacrificing what the people need to raise their standard of living.

Choosing the Matter only proves the council and government have learned nothing from past mistakes.

Other options need to considered for the children’s sake if nothing else.

Underground car parking maybe we could just take some money and burn it ……..Or perhaps we could do something really useful with it instead…..

Planners refuse permission, politicians want to push it trough anyway. Will they never learn.

local reps in blanchardstown are putting blanchardstown hospital grounds forward for a possible site for the new kids hospital, not a bad idea, lots of space and good transport links

I know of 1 child who travels the Mater for Dialysis 3 times a week by taxi paid for by the HSE thank god for the last 4 years. This young boy had a chance of a new kidney transplant but was 35 minutes late arriving to the hospital. He is not the only one from Sligo who travel to Dublin by taxi many times a week. The idea of the mater site is criminal for our children and their families.

And can the opposition to the Mater agree on any site?

It does not look like it… depends on who you ask all of these are the perfect locations, but only one/two fulfils tri-location in a meaningful way and few fulfil co-location in any meaningful way:

- Coombe
- Crumlin
- Tallaght hospital
- Blanch
- Athlone
- Portlaoise
- Newlands Cross
- South of Heuston Station
- The Mater
- Between the M50 and the airport
- Undisclosed / vague M50 locations

It just shows [A] Crown is correct when he said there would never be “unanimity” and [B] if at all true Gerry’s comments above about “looking out for their own selfish interests” is true for more than a few people (and they are being so selfish they can’t see the selfish important for all children of tri-location!).

By the way I’m not fixed on the Mater, the suggestion of building on the current hospital campus south of Heuston seems around the same for access and a lot better than other suggestions for co/tri-location.

Is nobody willing to talk about tri-location? It is followed as important world-wide, why are Irish children and babies so different?

@Tara — “there are children living in the far reaches of Ireland who will need specialist treatment”… By car the travel time difference between the Mater and an M50 site is small compared to their overall journey time. But for those from Mayo, Kerry, Cork, Galway etc who can’t afford a car, those parents and children who are using trains or buses, an M50 site is a nightmare.

@ David — Ireland is still a backward place if people think an underground car park equals “burning money”.

The longer this goes on the more children’s lives will be put at risk and/or lost. That’s the nub of this and people seem to be missing that point!

@ Howzat…???? do you even know what’s going on..

Everyone involved whatever their occupation or reputation are just looking out for their own selfish interests, this hospital should be on a greenfield site in athlone or surrounding area ie. the centre of the country to make it accessible for the population of the entire country not stuck in the middle of a traffic clogged city, but as usual in this country no consideration given to anyone outside the Capital.

@ Conor..”parking is a low level considersation”…but you’re concerned about changing the city skyline..right..i agree that co-location with maternity & teaching facilities are important..but we’ve coped without that (Crumlin) so far…..the best sites are Heuston or Blanch.

It’s got to do with religion. The Mater, Rotunda and Temple St being catholic hospitals. The don’t want anything to do with The Coombe which would have traditionally been a Protestant hospital. It’s amazing how these ties to religion still live on.

It’s a hospital not a shopping centre, parking is a low level consideration. The most important factor is the level of medical expertise, which means connecting it to a teaching hospital. That limits the options. A significantly scaled down plan at the Mater has much to be said for it, and gives the best chances for the children of 2017 (without distorting the city’s skyline as well).

The location has nothing to do with parking traffic it’s to do with savings kids lives and having support services
Some of you people are fir the birds

Do you know how many lives a fully integrated hospital will save

Some of the contributors to this discussion clearly have no experience of getting a critically sick child to a childrens hospital and dealing with everything that involves. Some of the contributors have and are, therefore, familiar with the practicalities. The opinions of people with hands on experience are more useful than of those who have the luxury of approaching the question from a theoretical macro level. Perhaps, as Tara suggests, some of the contributors to the thread might attempt getting a sick child to the Mater and allowing the experience to inform their opinion.

No she doesn’t
She hasn’t grasped the idea of an integrated maternity children and adult hospital nor the synergies and lives it will save and the progressive life monitoring that could be followed just like USA Canada etc follow
Nor have you unfortunately

A little tip for you
They won’t be building on a green field site
Only other site suitable would have been crumlin

Start all over again .

@Ciaran The Matter is an easy option?

Also tri-location is needed in time critical moments for children and babies. So, tri-location needs to be considered for “the children’s sake”!