So you’d like the next Pope to fundamentally alter the belief system of the Church to move in line with your liberal/secular beliefs?

The Catholic church is dying and good bye . It is a complicated web of lies and deceit the Catholic Church. Overall it jas done more bad than good from the top.

You’re clearly not a Catholic so why do you give a shit what happens to the Church?

Actually Carl, I think those changes would bring the Church more in line with the teachings of Jesus Christ.

And your a prophet now Kevin are ya?

@ Carl Douglas – I’m not sure you understand what secularism is, but anyway, it is the idea that no matter what religion you adhere to, what god you believe in or don’t has no influence on how people treat you, for you are treated equally, this is not the case in a society that is strongly influenced with some form of theology i.e. Iran. And what makes you think that I am a “liberal”? The failings of the Vatican that I outlined above are to do with common decency and have no bearing on political views.

Carl, the church has consistently changed its ways over the centuries.

Its stopped burning women for being independent ….
Its stopped burning natives of foreign lands….
Its stopped burning books….
It stopped bishops from having concubine’s
It stopped popes having children…
Its stopped excommunicating scientists for providing facts that happen to contradicts the churches “opinion”….
Its stopped ‘not’ condoning the actions of Nazi Germany.

The church has changed its mind many many times….they’ve even changed the Bible several times….

So Carl, the church WILL change to suit us, or the church will fall…

No Liam you are wrong . Secularism is a religion in itself . It has its own belief structures and morality in utilitarianism. It has no respect for any other religion and it wants the public square free of religion so its own tenets and beliefs can rule the roost without challenge.It hates Catholicism because Catholicism challenges it and reveals it for what it is , a new form of fascism which will stand no competition .

What a load of hooey. Secularism allows anyone to follow their own faith but not impose it on another. Any one Church influencing the laws affecting *all* citizens is wrong.

I suspect you’re confusing e.g. soviet russia with secularism as practiced in democratic countries. It’s pretty funny that in recent times many religious people have become keen to label the absence of religion as a religion. Feel free to take your orders from the man with the funny hat, I prefer to think for myself.

Anthony that’s bullshit the RCC has been in bed with every fascist dictator in Europe Mussulini, Franco , Hitler and the really nasty Ante Pavelic . The RCC has been forced to accept democracy . The only time it ever supported democracy was when it felt threatened by communism . It saw democracy as the lesser of two evils. The RCC has always seen democracy as a threat to its existence. The beast doesn’t want free thinking people just unthinking sheep like you to feast on.

He looks very frail.

god made him infallible. Interesting paradox.

Does he become fallible again when he steps down?

I read something about an arrest warrant being issued for him and a reclamation of the Vaticans assets being delivered to them on February 4th.. Something about crimes against humanity..

Sorry – my last comment was rather vague, the article I read had been shared on Facebook so I had to search back to find it.. It was from itccs.org – although what authority they have I am unsure.
There was also an article in the telegraph about a case being taken to the International Criminal Court (although that may not go anywhere for several reasons).

I agree Paul I’ve heard something big is going to happen in the States and Australia that will blow the church out of the water . They know what’s coming and their bricking it !

i think even Dum diversas is still there – probly on account that to do away with this evil bull !! would meant that a pope Nicholas 5th made a mistake .
The first was from Pope Nicholas V in 1452 called the Dum Diversas. It states the following:

”” We grant to you (King of Portugal) full and free power, through the Apostolic authority by this edict, to invade, conquer, fight, subjugate the Saracens (Muslims) and pagans, and other infidels and other enemies of Christ, and wherever established their Kingdoms, Duchies, Royal Palaces, Principalities and other dominions, lands, places, estates, camps and any other possessions, mobile and immobile goods found in all these places and held in whatever name, and held and possessed by the same [...]and to lead their persons in perpetual servitude. [i]
this and other bulls may sttill be having an effect on us .
worth reading http://serenityhome.wordpress.com/tag/dum-diversas/
”

@ Jim must check that link out Jim sounds interesting, thanks

Jim, sure wasn’t it Pope Alexander (?) – he was English – who deeded Ireland to Henry II? We had our own Celtic church here with a different day for Christmas – still observed in some places in Wales and called old Christmas Day. The invasion was a land grab, but also in the nature of a crusade.

The Mafia have nothing on the Catholic church. It’s surely no coincidence that both organisations come from the same neck of the woods!

Hi Mick,
I’m hoping that with regards to Bertie – it was more tongue in cheek?
I don’t think he is in the same league as the pedophile protector and all the other human rights atrocities committed by this old man who has the might of the church and the Vatican state behind him?

You say you know that Christ leads the church always. How do you know this? Do you have proof?

It annoys me when people believe this stuff, have you never heard of all the other gods that pre-date Christ, that his story is based around ie Mithra & Horus?

Gave you a thumbs up. Not a religious man myself but i believe your comment is for fellow believers of your faith and i respect that. Ignore the red thumbs.

Why does it annoy you that people chose to believe in a higher power?

Its terrible that people feel the need to evangelise Christians on Journal. Non Christians seem so bent on forcing their principles down other peoples necks. All I am doing is being a Christian and responding to the article.

We all have our beliefs and we should try to respect others beliefs.

Just because you may believe is this rubbish, does not mean that you’re entitled to have these views respected. Like any grown man or woman who believes in this nonsense, I will make fun of them. Period.

You are not making fun of them though. It is obvious from your comment that you are trying to convince me of your worldview and that is bad manners.

And thejournal agree with you.

DublinLad
Ignorance and disrespect is very ugly to observe. Are you an unhappy person. Have you ever sought psychological counseling for your condition?

DublinLad I can see you now sitting behind your keyboard bubbling away with pure anger because a few people don’t fall in line with your beliefs that we evolved from monkeys and chose to believe in God.

Richard,

Firstly, hello.

Secondly – I’m not being ignorant, I don’t know how you came to that conclusion. I merely get annoyed that grown men think that a ‘Man’ was born of a virgin, died, rose from the dead, could heal all men, walk on water and is the all wonderful and powerful, but yet demeans Women, Homosexuals. Does not endorse the use of condoms but yet wants to be respected? This man’s father also created everything that ever was and will be?

Pull the other one!

Agree with DublinLad on this, mind you I wont throw abuse at anyone. However Stephen you seem deeply deluded in the reality of this man. Ratzinger threatened all bishops with excommunication if they reported child rapists to the authorities, do you have children, I doubt it. He did everything he could to prevent the distribution of condoms in parts of Africa, this alone contributed directly to the deaths of countless thousands, WHY? because the Church is all mess up about the whole SEX thing and always have been, yet the same Church that tries to control ‘ordinary’ peoples sex lives cannot control their own and turn to the raping and buggering of children to satisfy their carnal desires, and when one of them is found out they hide him and move him to another parish or another country. They (Sean Brady) forced children to sign contracts of secrecy to protect child rapists. They Dolan (in US) intentionally moved 55million dollars from church coffers to prevent the payout to abused children.

Very important to keep in mind here that we are dealing with CHILD RAPISTS here not bicycle thieves.
Stephen I wont question the health of your sex life because it’s none of my business. But your blind piety is sickening to me.
When I look at Ratzinger I see a man terribly damaged by his own convictions and maybe indeed his own faith.
And NO you don’t know that Christ is leading anything anywhere. You believe that is all, and belief isn’t truth.

I really hope for an honest response from you about the child rape and the condom issues these are important to me and to any caring human.

but why do you hope for a response? I do not have any desire to come here with the need to convince you of the truth of the Catholic Church. I came here as a respectable citizen to comment on the article. I did not come here to engage in discussion about my faith. The journal invites me to comment on the article and so I do. Ever since coming here and doing that I have so many folks wanting to convince me of their worldview and that the Catholic Church is a rotten institution and so on. I have even had abusive verbal messages sent to my facebook account from Journal readers calling me all sorts of names. I forgive them all and do not seek any sort of revenge but can I please come to Journal and leave my comment and do so in peace without the anti reigious brigade jumping on my back to proselytise me into their secular beliefs?

So obviously reason and logic don’t come into the concept of faith at all. I feel sorry for you.
If

Dublin Lad just go, If Stephen wants to leave messages of Good will to Benedict let him do so without making fun and heckling his beliefs. Your obviousily an Atheist but if you are really are, why such a fascination in commenting on something you dont believe in. This is an independant news article on the popes retirement, its not issued for poking fun or telling how you see the world over and over again.

Stephen, your quite right.

Your more than entitled to your opinion. While I strongly disagree with your beliefs, they are your beliefs to have.

You have to understand the majority of people here see the church in a very different way than you.

@Stephen Mc Elligott: I wholeheartedly agree with your freedom of religious belief, and your right to express practice those in a peaceful way. I also think it despicable that you are receiving harassment mail via Facebook. Those who are doing so should stop, NOW.

However Stephen, your original comment at the start of this thread used the first person plural several times: “we” – “we thank him” – “we trust and know” and “our” – “[he will be] always in our prayers”.

If you want to make a statement on your own behalf, please do so, but you haven’t (to my knowledge) been appointed to speak on behalf of anybody else (have you?), so if you’re going to assert the right to do so, then I consider that really ought to respond to William Ruane’s questions which directed at you, rather than lamenting the fact that people are attempting to proselytise you.

By implication of your initial comments, you appear to have been the very one that led us down that road to begin with, so (quite apart from any reprehensible personalised attacks via Facebook) its a little disingenuous of you to attempt to assume some moral high-ground and rise above the debate that you have engaged “us” in.

i speak on behalf of my family Eamonn. You assumed from my post I was speaking on behalf of you and that is your responsibility, not mine.

Just to say Stephen, I admire & respect that you are standing up for your beliefs. Don’t listen too much to the usual spewing here, of contempt, ridicule, & sarcasm on your faith.
Some of the comments here not worth replying to. – You are entitled to express your opinion, without abuse or harassment.
I’m not a practising catholic, but I do think that there is alot more to the catholic church, than just the abuse scandals. The church has also done immense good in society, both in Ireland & the world.

He definitely has more courage & conviction than Enda Kenny who grovels to every anti-religious idiot & the those of the liberal agenda.

No offence Zoe but I find that hard to believe, seeing as your Facebook account is only a few weeks old, you are anonymous all week on The Journal and only comment when there is a story relating to abortion or the church, never on any other topics, and also are a Youth Defence supporter (as per Facebook page). Pretending to care about people under the guise of promoting an ideology isn’t very nice.

I can still express my opinion, & so can Stephen – the same as you.
Funny how you should go checking back into my facebook account. I can comment on whatever article I want whether that is the church or faith, or anything else.
Most of the commenters here regularly vent abuse at the church or faith, – so surely then if I wish to express the opposite opinion, then I am free to do so.
Or is this website reserved just for those who share your opinion.

The Church have been forcing their opinions upon millions for centuries. The church Bebe burned and tortured nonbelievers and so called heretics the church have committed heinous crimes based upon their own belief. The club you follow has a lot of blood on its hands.

And you seem to have an uncanny ability of separating the reality of the man from the myth, how do you do that. Don’t you hear the scream of the children echoing in the hall of Christ. I really would like to know how believers separate the reality of this horror from this peaceful state you express. I am being truly genuine. And I really do not mean to insult anybody. I would just like real answers. I will gladly relay them to my three beautiful children.

By the way I abhor any harassment you have suffered through any means.

The problem here is that the religious zealots want the freedom to be able to comment without being mocked. They call that “freedom of speech” and they feel hurt when others utilize their equal right to freedom of speech to mock them. What a tragedy :D

Seems to me that you think it ok to spew hate speech against Catholic Christians whilst crying out scandalised when someone condemns the secularist agenda in relation to themes concerning homosexuality or abortion. So hypocritical it is frightening.

@Ferg I’m spewing hate speech at who? What have I lied about, CHILD RAPE? I want truth, you know that word Ferg, the TRUTH.

Ferg what do you think about the church AND this popes role in the rape and abuse of children? Tell me the TRUTH! Don’t just attack me because I say what is THE KNOWN TRUTH ABOUT RATZINGER.

Why hide from reality…what good does that do, stop hiding, stop pretending reality doesn’t matter because it really does and the reality is that Ratzinger protected child rapists as did bishops and priests in this and many other countries. Deal with that reality Ferg…your call

But what do you think…seriously?

Stephen, I have no problem with your belief in Jesus or adherence to the tenets of the Catholic faith. That is your right. I do take exception to your lionising a man who has:

1 refused the use of condons to people in Africa who might well avoided HIV had they been able to use them
2 overseen cardinals’ and bishops’ moving of known paedophiles and rapists from one post to another and the protection of these people at the expense of their victims
3 refused until relatively recently to acknowledge that a woman’s right to life is at least equal to that of an unborn child
4 meddled in the sex lives of Catholics while (supposedly) having no experience of a sexual relationship of any kind.
5 keeping the priesthood an exclusively male preserve.
Think that should be enough to go on with.

Hi Stephen have you ever considered stand up ! The only thing is you wouldn’t want anyone who was raped by a cleric in the audience .especially when your venerating a man who conspired with other members of the RCC hierarchy to cover up child rape and keep it secret from law enforcement in multiple international jurisdictions. People who support this man support his crimes and are no better than those who perpetrated those horrendous crimes on young innocent defenceless vulnerable children.

Yes Regano you and Steven support protectors of child rapists . Neither of you are exhibit any Christian Characteristics . You are both so transparent many here see right through your games .

Stephen and Zoe are one and the same Troll.

Well said Stephen.. It seems to me that anyone who has any faith on this site is a Troll…. The Catholics Church and most practicing catholic’s faith is so much more the the terrible abuses that have happened.. Just because people still have faith doesn’t mean that they support what these people have done

Stephen Your public veneration of a very unchristian protector of child rapists. Does not make you a Christian it makes you an egotistical self serving hypocrite. When will you acknowledge the thousands of child victims of the RCC.

Stephen will never respond to negative facts against the RCC. You see he can’t handle the truth it would tear his world apart to believe that he’s been praying to Men who have aided and abetted in the cover up of child rape. He labels everyone who criticises the RCC as secular or non religious . Which shows an ignorance on his behalf. The sad thing is if you shatter the illusion you’ll shatter the man.

Do one, just do one !!

Capable of…….what?

The cardinals will elect another pope in the same mould as JPII and BXVI. So in other words the church will stay exactly as it is and fail to evolve in anyway.

Yes, agree. Best wishes to Pope Benedict on his retirement.

By the look of him I dont think it will be a long and healthy retirement. He looks really worn down on the news today.

you seem to get great satisfaction refering to the popes health and condition. A little bit below the belt really…not surprised though coming from you the great enlightened conor

There are a number of reasons why non-believers have a lot to say;
1) Most atheists in Ireland have parents who are practising Catholics, and are afraid to ‘come out’ for fear of causing their parents worry or causing strife within the family, this is wrong
2) As the Catholic church still is intrinsically intertwined in our educational system, most non-believers do not have a choice to send their children to non-denominational schools due to the lack of them, and therefore must watch as their children are isolated during year-long preparations for communion and confirmation, this is wrong
3) Unfortunately there are a lot of people worldwide, and in Ireland, who hang on every word the pope utters and decrees, and this impacts directly and indirectly on non-believers, this is wrong

When we have a completely secular society, a complete separation of Church and State, and people leave their religious beliefs behind closed doors and respect the non-belief of others, then non-believers will have less interest in such articles, but we’ll all be waiting a long time before that day comes.

Can one simply not be interested in the news? Should only catholics have an opinion on the catholic hierarchy? If thats the case then should people professing any faith have a say in secular or civil matters?

On this website everyone and anyone can express an opinion on the topics of the day whether they are anonymous postings, unintelligent postings or even trollers. Thats the nature of it.

So stop feeling persecuted just because some non catholics are commenting on a catholic news story…. Which also happens to be global news!

Most of it is not merely commenting, – just spewing hatred & trolling.

Which can also be said when some of the catholics get on and start spouting vitriolic bile on news of gay marriage and abortion.

If you cant take it dont dish it!

It’s not like Zoe has ever been rabid and foamed at the mouth on here ;)

Whatever, – (yawn).

Maurice it affects me greatly, I am Irish I live in Ireland and find it impossible to find a non religious secondary school for my children because the church controls the schools the church controls how the children are taught. The church has protected a vast number of its priests who have committed terrible crimes against children, this affects ME, how dare the church tell a woman or a man what they can or cannot do to their bodies, or who I can have sex with. or whether someone should have access to contraception…all things the church is against.

‘Non believer’……what a label you’ve picked…..

I’d personally prefer ‘enlightened’…..or ‘one who has thought about it and decided to leave this 2000 year old cult’…

Dont forget that when he says non believer he is lumping all non catholic christians, jews, muslims, buddhists, hindus, confucionists, zoroastrianists, rastafarians, agnostics and atheists into that term. That accounts for over 80% of the population of the planet there.

I give to now the horse of God.

*you

They lied Ted when they said ignorance is bliss, it just ignorance.

Who are they Paddy?

“They” is Thomas Gray

Go on Liam! Tell em’ how it should be run!

You mean like the way the Church make comments on how everyone ( catholic or not ) lives should be run?

Only the Great Sky Pixie knows how it should be run.

Who’s a little defensive about his church.

Fair enough I suppose if this was a comments sections in Catholic Times

They are doing a good enough job themselves running it into the ground.

Q no argument from Catholics.

ADEBAAAAAAAAAAAYOOOOOOOOO!

Perhaps the catholics should stop interfering with secular and civil issues then aswell?!

Liam I maybe wrong but I suspect that most people who submit posts on this site were baptised Catholics . Just like myself . I used to believe in the church but then I educated myself and learnt to think critically and see through all the propaganda and corruption of the RCC hierarchy. The more I learnt the more I realised how unchristian it really is . The RCC hierarchy actively protected and facilitated child rapists . I personally know a number of victims. I feel sorry for young people like you who despite all the evidence are still blindly loyal to that most unchristian abomination of an organisation. Whether you like it or not you too are a victim of the RCC. The beast has you firmly in his grasps.

Well said Tony. Likewise for me. The catholic church are now like the levites that ran the temple in jerusalem, they let the moneylenders in and the greed and corruption. Christ cast the moneylenders out and earned the ire of the levites, and we all know how that ended.

If Christ walked into the Vatican today, he would be appalled and disgusted, the Catholic Church would then brand him a heretical malcontent and try to discredit him.

Thank you for that Margaret,
Where did you locate it in the first place ?