Michelle, I am guessing that the vast majority of people who voted ‘Yes’ and ‘No’ really should have voted ‘I’m not sure’ for the simple reason that the information isn’t out there to tell us in black and white what would happen in the event that we did follow the UK’s impending exit in 2015. I would like to see a comprehensive piece of independent research carried out that addresses what would likely happen in the event of an Irish exit under the catagories of Political, Social, Economic. We can all be armchair analysts when we want to be but not economists. If anyone has any link to up to date research on this please leave a link.

That’s not true Glenn. The poll is not about whether or not we should leave Europe. The poll is about whether or not we should have a referendum on remaining within the the EU. The only real genuine method of discussing the consequences of an EU in/out result would be when vested interests are at stake. Only when there is the possibility of a referendum will we get to discuss the pros and cons of EU membership. Until then, it will only ever be opinion pieces by people who do not have the full picture.

To describe it as “the UK’s impending exit in 2015″ is quite a stretch. It’s unlikely there will be a referendum as it requires the tories to win an overall majority at the next election and that’s not looking likely. Even with that it would have to be carried and once the campaigning starts it would not be that likely to succeed. I’m not saying it’s impossible, just unlikely.

Apologies Brian your absolutely right of course and very well said, but would you agree that in the lead up to these referenda the public generally have not got a good understanding of the issues at stake either because of political parties pushing their own agenda or because the facilities are put in place too late to allow people to learn the facts and form an opinion? I really believe that the information should be easily accessible in the public domain now rather than in three years time and also that the info should come from independent sourses is essential.

I completely agree Glenn. There are far too many opinions and not enough facts out there about the possible pros and cons relating to continued Irish membership of the EU. Indeed, many people are easily influenced by short-term factors and their portrayal in the media. I myself am guilty of being influenced by such factors. I would describe myself as Eurosceptic, not because I want Ireland to leave the EU, but because what I see is an entity which has far too much influence in our daily lives considering the democratic deficit that exists within that entity. Reform would be preferable, but many people on the street don’t even believe in the concept of reform (see the debate over the existence of the Seanad).

As an aside, an interesting point relating to the UK’s referendum drive would be the effect that has on the Scottish independence debate. We should be looking very carefully at this. Currently, EU membership is quite popular among the Scottish electorate. If it looks likely that the UK will leave the EU in 2015-2018, Cameron’s referendum on EU membership could spell the dissolution of the United Kingdom as Scottish voters vote, not necessarily on Scottish independence, but continued involvement in the EU. With support for independence currently in the 30-40% range, it’s not too far-fetched to see that figure increase as businesses and Europhiles opt for continued EU membership.

Notice Cameron tied the referendum 2015 and 2018 (have read 2017 most likely), with his current term in office ending in 2015. There have been reports suggesting Cameron would be lucky to last to 2015, with grumbling from the Tory right and pressure increasing due to Labour & UKIP’s surge, and this referendum basically kills two birds with one stone.

It quietens the dissatisfaction of the more right-wing of his own party for a time and ties himself to the referendum, so UKIP will be more likely to back him to remain in power past 2015.

t’s also tied up with the Tories winning the next election outright.

Paul, Cam said he’d do it if he’s PM regardless of whether as a coalition or not.

“said”

He was explicitly asked and was categorical about it.

So yes “said”. It’s how many people communicate, “talking”.

You’re aware that he’s actually a politician, damocles, right?

Yes. But sometimes even politicians say things and mean them.

damocles the gullible

If he states what he intends to, is categorical and on record about it, it’s remarkably hard for him to wriggle out of it.

Oh, I didn’t realise that. I had heard it was explicitly with an overall majority win (as mentioned by Iain Watson here http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-21148282) but you’re right – he does say there will be one if he is PM and it would be a condition of any coalition. http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/jan/23/david-camerons-europe-speech-points

We are currently owned lock, stock and barrel by Europe, surely they wouldn’t let their assets go without sending in the bailiffs first?

We’d need another CJ Haughy to pull that one off.

Guys my vote does not seem to be registering again, I am using an iPhone has anyone else been having problems :(

The Green Monkey, your vote hasn’t been counted in a poll about about a referendum on the EU, I think that says a lot.

Yea true they’d vote to stay ye know because being Germanys bitch is going so well for us.

May be our Politicians have too many balls……………….if there were more women in the varoious parties there would be more intellegent debate…LOL

Too many plumb jobs in Europe for them to give up when they get fecked out of the Dail, it would be like turkeys voting for Xmas

Jesus!!!!!…the GERMANS ARE PAYING THE PIPER? if nothing else respect their commitment.

Honestly, when they stop the country from going completely bankrupt because Irish people walked mindlessly into Irish bank promotions led by Irish governments voted in by Irish people, I think they have a right to have a bigger say than Irish people.

We can talk about what should have been done til the cows come home, facts are that Irish politicians were too corrupt to care and the Irish people were to blinded by money to take notice of warning signs years before the crash happened. We’ll never know for sure, but some reports suggests that without the EU bailout this country would have struggled to keep the lights on in hospitals and any Gardai in employment. So maybe it’s time we stopped blaming the Germans and started examining why we were unable to govern ourselves properly (that pretty much means from the start of this failure of a Republic).

The Irish taxpayer is the one ultimately paying it, the Germans are getting paid and with interest. It was bad lending by German and French banks to Irish banks that got us into this mess in the first place, the Germans are no white knights.

The Germans are no white knights I know, they were/are presiding over a Euro currency which was/is so flawed it beggars belief, but it is the Irish who are at fault for our woes and it is the Irish we should mostly blame and not the Germans. It seems we all just want to point the finger at everyone else and not accept that the Irish public are as big a part of this mess as the Irish financial regulators and Fianna Fail. Until we learn from our mistakes we’ll be doomed to repeat this process in 20 or 30 years time.

Without the EU we’d still be just a tinpot country living off the coast of Britain, without the EU we’d be back to being just a tinpot country living off the coast of Britain. The only way we could survive without them would be to rejoin the UK, so if we’re having a referendum let’s put that people instead.

You’re missing the bigger picture. When it comes to Anglo the ecb gave us promissory notes not Germany. Germany and other countries funded the bailout which will be paid back from us. Germany won’t loose out in the end. The Irish state were made pay for the banks because otherwise the whole eu would have been screwed. Germany didn’t give us any charity by giving a bailout it was for their benefit as much as it is ours. The main beneficiary of the euro is Germany. Rates are set for the German economy which in turn fueled the Celtic tiger here. Of course we have inept politicians and they are to blame as well. But it was lack of regulation in both Ireland and the EU that caused the burst bubble. Germany doesn’t have our interest at heart they have their own and will do their best to make sure we pay ever cent of bank debt. We saved the whole eu banking system from collapsing when we didn’t have to and the burden should be shared. It’s a union after all.

I am no way saying Ireland is not also to blame for the sh*t storm we find ourselves in. Each member of Fianna Fáil should be tried for treason in my books as well as the bankers. That bank guarantee scheme destroyed this country. But the fact is if you are in a shared currency you need more integration and responsibility sharing. You cannot have a single currency with several independent states, if you want the currency you have to fix it between you’s when it fails. At least France recognizes this Germany needs to cop on and stop blocking Ireland’s debt deal.

We may have saved the banking system for the EU but they, by all accounts, saved our country.

If even any of this is remotely true, ‘this country would have struggled to keep the lights on in hospitals and any Gardai in employment’, refusing to take the bailout was simply not an option

They contributed to the bailout funds along with all other Euro countries and separate loans from other countries. They didn’t single handedly save our country. That’s the way it should be when your part of a union. You help each other out. Same way as we contributed to greeces bailout. If we went down the tubes the whole euro zone would have followed. In America if a state is in trouble the government gives it more money to help it out.

@David
I agree completely with everything you have said and you have put it in a very clear manner +1
How Patrick Neary is walking around this country a free man today I do not know. The media seem to be blaming the late Brian Lenehan for everything but there were two people in the room that night. Why Brian Cowen has not been questioned on this matter is deplorable. Why there has not been a bank enquiry is also deplorable and why Michael Noonan has put the 2 letters from Triochet into stororage for 30 years is disgraceful. There is a cover up going on and it stinks to high heaven. The people of Ireland are have been used as cannon fodder by the very people who represent them.

The main beneficiary of the Euro is France. Germany never wanted it, as their currency was doing quite nicely. It was forced on them as a part of the price of reunification.

We benifieted greatly from EU membership for many years – from structural funds – and from CAP [ Common Agr . Policy ] – but once Glas – Steagll was done away with – letting the casino bankers loose – that was the beginning of the End . Many experts saw this disaster coming – few people heeded them .
The usterity is to ensure the German banks get their money back – as they too — as has been said gave irresponsible loans – which the Irish Banks toook up – and they too got into the gambling game as it was a Bubble that would last forever . It was as if no-one had heard of Boom /Bust – .
Now the Germans want their loans back – via the Irish banks – and the govermnet have decided that we should pay for the whole farce .
We owed a lot to the Germans before – as they bankrolled the CAP to a very large extent – but not since the casino banking began .
The Germans are not paying the piper now —— ” We , The People ” are .
And as has been said how Cowen and Ahern and many others are still walkg around – takes some understanding . Even in US – some fraudelent bankers have been jailed . Sadly – they have been quickly replaced .
We should have foolowed Icelands example – but thats gone now . The politicians are too tied to Failed US Economic doctrine [ Neo-liberalism ] to have done so . They lacked those round things .— as do the present crowd .
Tthere is no end to this Austerity – and Greece is being held up as an example to all who do not obey the Troika .
Lagrade said Austerity in Greece could continue for 10 years . Cameron in UK says 2018 – . Reality of that means – they have no intention of ending Austerity – it is the greatest robbery of all time . Rob the Poor to pay for the Rich who made fatal [ for us ] errors . A never ending robbery.

Jim
very well summed up.
I am sick to death of pro government supporters blindly following the governments lead on the banking debt crisis.
Ah sur we went mad, ah sur we cant burn the bondholders,
The one person in the Fine Gael administration who knows what hes talking about is Peter Matthews and even he advocates not paying the bondholders.
Noonan attending bilderberg raises serious questions as to where our governments loyalties lie and the fact that the Triochet letters have been put away under lock and key makes it even more questionable. I am sure given time that these letters will miraculously disappear
The Irish people have been scapegoated in order to satisfy the greed of the Rothschilds

Stephen
You have heard of the EFTA of which the EU and countries such as Switzerland and Norway are members? They happily allow the free movement of people and goods without barriers such as trade tariffs. Why would we have to reconsider our Membership if the UK decided to leave? Wouldn’t it make Ireland somewhat more attractive to be the only English speaking country as a Member for Foreign Direct Investment from other English speaking countries?

If he UK did pull out do you think that they would put blocks on Irish trade with them??? No way so dont eev use this as a possible argument.

Mark, as far as I’m aware Norway and Switzerland still have to comply with most EU regulations to achieve this status. Also they both pay into the EU budget. So no say in what the regulations are and pay for the privilege of complying with them.
Doesn’t sound to enviable a position to me.

I don’t understand Cameron’s logic. If he were to get out of something like the Working Time Directive, that means UK companies have a competitive advantage in the trading block. The other countries are not going to accept that.

Do you honestly think the EU has any notion of turning away from it’s banker friendly, fat cat stance?
That it will just suddenly become a democratic paradise?

In order to inflict change we need to play them, by just playing the servile slave not questioning them then they’ll just carry on to the detriment of every EU member country.

Just where has our servility got us recently?

ffs

I don’t know…maybe it will give people a say instead of being dragged along, asking the citizens what they think?…. that’s normally the general idea of a referendum

Need to leave as Switzerland,Norway and Iceland are doing better and have control of their economies. We just have docile euro lackeys in politics who just want to stay in the gravy train of expenses whoever is paying the bill.

get out as fast as we can,& get this government out also,

French and German are official languages as is English and many more, but I suppose French and English are de facto the most used languages in the system..

German already is the most widely spoken first language in the EU! Well ahead of English. German is an official language in Lichtenstein, Luxemburg, Southtyrol (Italy), Belgium, Switzerland, Germany and Austria!

@BVDynasty, while you are correct, recall that Liechtenstein and Switzerland are not EU members… just sayin’…

@patrick – Damn!Totally forgot to take non EU countries out!I had a longer, slightly different comment before I decided to shorten it.