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Dublin: 11 °C Sunday 19 May, 2013

Pope calls for Catholic Church to ‘renew’ as thousands flock to prayers

The Vatican said over 50,000 people had turned out to see the pope for his Sunday Angelus, while local authorities put the number at over 100,000.

POPE BENEDICT XVI called on the church and its faithful today to “renew themselves” as tens of thousands of pilgrims and tourists attended his penultimate Angelus prayers.

“The church calls on all its members to renew themselves… which constitutes a fight, a spiritual battle, because the evil spirit wants us to deviate from the road towards God,” he told the crowds from his window overlooking St Peter’s Square.

Families with young children, pensioners and nuns packed into the square in the sunshine said they had come to pay their respects to the pope, make their goodbyes or share in a historic event ahead of the 85-year old’s resignation.

Groups of scouts held up banners reading “We have loved you so much!” and “We will be with you… always” and said they wanted to show Benedict that his shock decision to stand down on February 28 had not shaken their faith in him.

“He has done it for the good of the church, and will keep serving us. He is retiring to pray – and God knows we need his prayers,” said Germana Blaiotta.

Viva il papa

A serene-looking Benedict waved to the crowds and thanked them for turning out in such large numbers, calling it a “sign of affection and spiritual closeness”, as the onlookers called out “viva il papa” (long live the pope).

Benedict’s brother said in an interview with Spanish newspaper ABC published today that the pontiff was seeking greater tranquility with his retirement.

“He no longer has strength. He is going through the natural process of aging, as am I. My brother wants more tranquility for his old age. With the advance of his age, his strength is declining,” Georg Ratzinger, 89, said.

The Vatican said over 50,000 people had turned out to see the pope for his Sunday Angelus, while local authorities put the number at over 100,000.

Benedict, whose surpise announcement last Monday that he would step down after eight years rocked the church, called on the world’s faithful to “refocus on God by disowning pride and egoism”.

His words were seem by some as a veiled reference to internal bickering within the church in recent months, as well as the jostle for power as cardinals from all over the world prepare to vote in his successor.

“Benedict did everything for the church, he was always in the limelight but they did nothing but criticise him and try and undermine him. Whoever follows him will have to have strong nerves,” said Margherita Yager, 61, from Germany.

Christine Renier, a 48-year-old teacher from Paris, said she was in Rome on holiday and had wanted to see the pontiff before he retires to a secluded monastery behind the Vatican walls for a life of contemplation.

Losing faith

“It is a sad day, but I think Benedict was actually too rigid and lost many faithful among the young. I’m hoping for a pope who can throw out the bureaucracy and get back to the church’s roots, perhaps an African,” she said.

Amid speculation over which of the 117 cardinals in the running might snap up the Vatican’s top job, Italian media said Cardinal Angelo Scola, the Archbishop of Milan, was among the favourites backed by Benedict.

After meeting the pope Saturday, Scola said Benedict had told him “you have to become a light for everyone”, a phrase pounced on by the media as a clue.

“Significant words which will be weighed by everyone,” said the Repubblica, while La Stampa agreed they were “meaningful words”.

At St Peter’s Square, tourists snapping souvenir photographs of Benedict on their smart phones said he may have revolutionised the papacy.

“This is a moment which will go down in history. He’s opened the door to future resignations and I cannot see anyone suffering through an old age as pope again. From now on they’ll retire,” said Michele Agostino, 66.

Later today, the pontiff will start a week-long spiritual retreat and have only very few public engagements before he formally steps down – the first pope to resign because he simply cannot go on in 700 years.

Benedict will receive Italian President Giorgio Napolitano on 23 February, celebrate his last Angelus prayer on 24 February and hold a final audience in St Peter’s Square with tens of thousands of followers on 27 February.

- © AFP 2013.

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Comments (139 Comments)

  • JayTee 17/02/13 #

    Moving beyond the middle ages would help

    Reply
  • This evil man’s legacy is the litany of atrocities committed and concealed by the church’s officials and a college of cardinals who orchestrated the conspiracy of concealment.
    Is it any wonder that the Vatican is riven by factionalism, betrayal and money laundering?
    The men at its core are there by virtue of the fact that they have no moral compasses. They are religious politicians of the lowest stripe.
    The faithful cry out for renewal, and yet it is obvious that this dysfunctional organization is self-destructing.
    For those of us who are the regular targets of the church’s moral condemnation, it is an awesome spectacle watching the slow suicide of this evil giant.
    I will pull up a chair, buy some popcorn and marvel with grim delight at this unprecedented spectacle.

    Reply
  • theres many movies and books written on spiderman but no actuall proof that he exists so who knows maybe in 2000 years people will worship him aswell.

    Reply
  • Julie 17/02/13 #

    The church could have appealed to people my age, but we just see it for what it really is, it like all establishments got drunk on power and the total control it had on people.used scare tactics. I am not saying I am not religious I just don’t believe in the church. It told people in the beginning the more money you gave to the church that it would help you get into heaven. I think it is knowledge and education that has helped us see these establishments for what they really are. It is this same knowledge that lets us see the world is a bad place these days lots of bad things happening. Why ? Does it have to be like this, I don’t know we get all our answers from another establishment.

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  • You’d have to be mentally ill to believe in a fraction of the stuff in the bible.

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  • He and the vatican should Flock off !

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  • The second article on the Journal today about Cults.

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  • The pope said, “… the evil spirit wants us to deviate from the road towards God”. This is incorrect, it’s knowledge and education.

    Reply
    • Barry 17/02/13 #

      Spot on William, you’ve only to look at the history books.

      The rise of the christen faith is right there with the dark ages, the age where literacy across Europe went down.

      If we don’t understand our history we are doomed to repeat it,

      The ignorance, fear mongering, hatred, abuse and deaths all done in the name of this faith is something we should never ever repeat.

      The fact remains though that this faith of “peace” is nothing of the sort, it still has a hatred towards women…. If it didn’t it would see them as equals and treat them as such, it also creates hatred towards gays and seems to have to problem blessing people who would kill a person for being gay.

      It has knowing hidden its crimes even up until the past two decades, nothing has changed about this man mad religion and the men that run it.

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    • @barry – how did u get red thumbs for stating the obvious .
      Best thing is religion disappears from this planet -. one just has to look at the behiour of those who say they belive in tne Invisible man in the Sky to know something is badly amiss . And if one delves deeper at the lies – the behaviour of the catholic church and others it is obvious they are scared of the truth.
      - WHAt were so afarid of that they tortured those who did not believe their BS – that those disbelievers were in fact correct .
      Why dont the belivers clear off to paradise – must be great there – and no recession – no FF or FG – by definition – so please GO.

      Reply
    • Barry, it was the monks in Ireland and Europe that preserved knowledge during the dark ages. The church did not bring about the dark ages. Who destroyed the great library at constantinople? Read you history.

      Reply
    • Declan theyre far to consumed with hate to do that.

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    • correct Declan, -
      Thats true of for much of Europes history, especially during the dark ages, of the fifth & sixth centuries. It was Christian monasticism that preserved much of the learning, literacy & education, after the fall of the Roman Empire.
      Irish monasticism played a huge role in this, & has had a profound cultural influence on European Civilisation.
      Alot of Irish people don’t seem to be aware of this important part of our history.

      Reply
    • Jim, if someone wants to believe in a god or follow a religion that’s their business and not yours. Remember Stalin who tore down the churches. Hitler who killed the Jews. Mao who killed millions while bringing communism to china. Three people who are responsible for the deaths of 90 million people in the 20th century. Hitler started a war that left 60 million dead, Stalin enacted policies that left 20 million dead and Mao is responsible for 10 million. They did not do it in the name of god.

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    • I know Hitler as a catholic and Christian he believed his was a holy war . I read his autobiography . So many make statements about Hitler and the RCC always try to distance themselves and claim he was an atheist which is a complete fabrication on their part. http://www.catholicarrogance.org/Catholic/RC_scandal-2.html

      Reply
    • Stalin also spent many years studying as a seminarian, communism in China and Russia reflected the cult of the leader (as seen in North Korea today) and had many of the traits of organised religion, Mao’s little red book, male dominated, this should not be confused with atheism, nobody has ever been killed in the name of atheism.

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    • Begone back to the shadows Beelzebub awaits !

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    • Very true opening statement at the start of the posts William .One should know thine enemy and use their own weapons and the weight of their own logic to defeat them. I liked this particular extract from the bible , it reminded me of a certain high ranking RCC official whose been in the news a lot lately.
      Demons can take any desired appearance, even that of an “angel of light” (2 Corinthians 11:14).

      “13. For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, masquerading as apostles of Christ. 14. And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. 15. It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve.”

      Reply
  • I find it hard to choose a religion as there are so many different choices :(

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  • There is no jostle for power journal.ie . The papal chair is not a position of power but one of great service in which the pope considers himself to be the servant of servants and least of all.

    The enemy is forever trying to shut us up by using whatever is the popular culture at the current time as well as secularism and atheism. The blows a Christian receives can really weaken us which is why it is important for us as Christians to come together, stand together and be united and renewed by prayer. I hear His Holiness message and agree that we all need renewal and that although daily renewal is difficult is nonetheless something we must strive for.

    We shouldn’t be afraid to speak out and exercise our Christianity in the face of those who openly profess and practice their secularism either. Lets not be afraid of the persecution and the red thumbs, they are only all the more the cause of our sanctification before The Lord, a daily renewal if you understand me.

    Long live the Pope indeed.

    Reply
    • can you please show us some actuall proof that there is a god.

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    • Shane if there was no God there would be no atheists .

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    • so thats your answer???thats very weak man.you have been spouting the religion crap all the time and thats the best you can come up with.

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    • Barry 17/02/13 #

      Stephen, these days all the church fears is the loss of its power.

      Previously if someone spoke out against the church the church could simply have them killed.

      In more recent years the church could make the population of a town turn against a person who spoke out against them.

      Well, no longer.

      The church has lost its power, people can finally think for them selfs and not rely on a much of rewritten myths and stolen stories from other religions to tell them how to lead their lives.

      Reply
    • I am exercising my Christianity in my comments and being a Christian. I am not here to convince you of Jesus. Even if someone should rise from the dead you still would not believe. Because for many it’s not a case of proof, the testimony and works of God have been evident before all in the world, but people don’t care because its a matter of the will and not the intellect. People simply don’t WANT to believe. I would invite you to investigate a little further but I am not going to waste my time entertaining an off topic debate on the existence of God.

      Our duties as Christians is to spread the Gospel by how we live as well as by mouth but our duty is not to convince people of its validity. We simply let people who want to hear, hear and those who do not want to hear , choose not to hear. Because lets be honest teaching a pig how to sing only wastes our time and it irritates the pig.

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    • what work of god has there been in the world were is the actuall proof that god has done things on earth.this isnt the middle ages anymore you cant just convince people with old stories from a book.

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    • There have been many miracles and miraculous healings. YouTube Our Lady of Fatima, Our Lady of Garbandal, Our Lady of Zeitun and My own brother in the 70s was cured of his life long illness in Lourdes . But you see in order to believe in miracles and the testimony of the apostles and others you need faith Shane. Another site very very worthy of a look at would be http://www.jesusisreturning.com and http://www.tlig.org in which mystic vassula Ryden was given many prophecies that came true. I know there are many wackos out there claiming all sorts when it comes to prophecies but this is very authentic because they actually occurred after the prophecy was given.

      You are more than welcome to email me and have a chat with me if you want for a chat about it. I wouldn’t be the brightest of Stars when it comes to intellectual discussions but I am afraid I am not going to keep carrying this thread off topic for now.

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    • There haven’t been any “miracles or miraculous healings”. Even the Catholic Church only claims 64 at Lourdes out of the millions who went there. So your brother must have been luckier than a Lotto winner. The place is full of crutches but why no artificial legs? Btw you’re an Atheist as well, unless you believe in Ganesha. Do you?

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    • Stephen I’m on my knees to the sky creatures above. You’ve saved my ‘sole’ from utter damnation through wear and tear :)

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    • What about the the thousands of Roman Catholic child victims of the RCC Stephen ? the constant reminder of the evils perpetrated by Roman Catholic clerics and the cover up by their hierarchy . 13500 genuine cases awarded redress by the Irish state. 10000 women enslaved in magdalene laundries , 30,000 Spanish babies sold by nuns . That’s truly a church and a hierarchy to be proud of isn’t it ? At least your honest about not being intellectual so maybe you can be excused for your naive , condescending , hypocritical rhetoric . Your really doing a disservice to genuine Christians .

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    • There have been many many healings at Lourdes but many chose not to document them including my brother and that is their choice at the end of the day. I have not heard of one healing yet that was not for a terminal illness such as an artificial leg. Wen I have a pain in my head I use the simple means of panadol. God is not going to do for me what I can do for myself. Look at that wonderful technology we use in order to make artificial legs. We use our God given talents to do so. I have seen many disabled people in wheelchairs who have wonderful relationships with God. The fact that God does not choose to heal them does not matter. They are grateful to God for what they do have and not for what they don’t have and that in itself is a wonderful testimony of faith.

      You make it too easy to respond but I will definitely leave it at this: even the Pharisees who were religious saw the works that Jesus did and still did not believe in him. They like you too demanded proof by saying “if you are truly the son of God come down from that cross.” These were supposedly men of faith. So it is not a matter of proof but one of faith. When my wife tells me she loves me I don’t bring a battery of lawyers to get her to prove this to me. I simply throw myself in her arms and love her back. I have faith in her love for me. Faith is a reality that exists in us all, we just need to ignite that faith by plunging ourselves into seeking out a relationship with Christ.

      Have a good evening.

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    • Liam 17/02/13 #

      @ Stephen Mc Elligott – No one is trying to shut you or any other christian up when it comes to christianity, it is merely the fact that when your kind continuously talks about it, it can become tiresome for people who don’t fall for the lies that the Catholic church (as well as other denominations) will say.

      Religion is like a penis, it is okay to have one, its okay to be proud of having one, but please don’t go waving it around in public, and don’t shove it down anyone’s throat (unless they want it). :-)

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    • Stephen your family must be very special .Of the many thousands of pilgrims he choose to cure your brother yet he failed to cure my brother and many others . In any event when he was there in Lourdes in the 80s they put him in a wheelchair so he wouldn’t get tired standing up waiting to get dipped. While he was waiting he got out of the wheelchair to stretch his legs. Imagine his amazement at the reaction of those around him . Many People , mostly women flung themselves to their knees around him praying frantically and saying they’ve seen a miracle . All the time he was trying to tell them that he wasn’t crippled . He said they just wouldn’t listen . He thought it was hilarious , he always had a sense of humour . I really miss him. Let him rest in peace.

      Reply
    • And the same can be said about secularism. The principles of secularism is Something that is often shoved down our necks through media outlets and the like. I fail to understand how it can become tiresome for you when I am but a grain of sand here on the journal compared to the vast ocean of secularism that seems to reside here.

      Secularism is tiresome, Christianity the true rebellion and the Catholic Church has outlived every oppressive government since 33AD so we won’t be going anywhere too soon Liam and I won’t be bullied on the journal into shutting my mouth either but will have my say and swim against the tide of secularism, atheism etc etc.

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    • I’m waving my fairy wand if anyone needs healing ;)

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    • tony that is a very funny story that made me laugh hard here. I will say luck has nothing to do with it tony. It all has to do with faith. I will pray for your brother and may he rest in peace. Thanks for sharing that with me it was a vey funny story.

      Reply
    • Stephen, – just to say liked reading your comments, & admire your faith.
      Faith is obviously a great source of strength & inspiration to you, – as it still is to a great many people around the World.

      Reply
    • I didn’t say lucky I said special . No need to pray Stephen he won’t hear you like his god didn’t hear him . You see my brother is dead but unlike your God my brother actually existed . You sell religion like a pyramid scheme , you have to believe it will work and if you don’t get rich quick , it’s your own fault ! Because you didn’t believe its a bit like you hinting that my brother didn’t get cured because he didn’t have enough faith . The one thing to learn from my story is things are not always as they appear . Feel sorry for those gullible pilgrims that went home telling everyone they saw a miracle at Lourdes . For they’ll be forever ignorant of the truth.

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    • Stephen its great you have such loyalty to your church. But many of us here that are negative towards the roman catholic church are that way because we see the church as being unchristian and not actually espousing what Christ taught.

      Christ cared for everyone, especially children. Told us to live good lives, be honest, love your family and friends, do your best to forgive those who wronged you and dont be judgemental of others. Be generous and share.

      In the history of the church it has done the complete opposite of all of the above.

      This is why many people consider the church and its magesterium to be completly hypocritical and unrepentent of its sins.

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    • I actually despair that adults can believe the pope is directed by a holy ghost and follow what he has to say. Often such ignorance is justified by anecdotes and that magic word that sweeps logic, intellect and reason under the carpet with one fell swoop, ‘faith’. I really wish Irish people who still believe in a deity would cast of the ignorance, read about the real history of the catholic church and the popes and stop turning a blind eye to the horrors which occur even to this day.

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    • Tony, yes the healing is in the faith of the individual. But sometimes the person who has great faith may also not get healed either. Look at Pope John Paul the second who had great faith but he was not healed. However his suffering was there for the sanctification of his soul and others as well. Christians makes good use of their sufferings by offering it up for others. Many saints suffered and prayed for us and yet had a great peace about them all the way to their death. St.therese of Lisuex the little flower who was no stranger to suffering said “I am not dying, I am entering life.” You want to know a secret tony? There is actually no such thing as dying. The mystics keep telling us this but we never listen.

      Jesus himself suffered and died on the Cross for us. He asked to be delivered of it in the Garden of Gethsemene but his Father did not respond. Jesus beautiful response was ” thy will be done” . Jesus then suffered but his suffering was not in vain for he gave himself on a cross for all of us that we may spend an eternity in heaven with him. He opened the gates of heaven and out of his seed of suffering grew a magnificent tree of healing for the world. By his wounds we are healed .

      Christianity is the only religion in which we have a God who came and suffered with us and for us. Who experienced the same joys and sorrows of life as we do. That’s how much he loves us, that he was willing to come that close to us and die on the cross for us. I will leave it at this.

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    • I’m more scared than a 2 year old watching a Stephen King film

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    • Conor stop waiting for other people to be repentant of their sins and start being repentant of your own. Yes it is important to look at other people’s behaviour and call them up for it but also important to look at ourselves and be the change in the church and in the world.

      I don’t judge any institution in the world that holds, teaches and lives according to the moral code they have according to the behaviour of their members. Many police members are guilty of crimes of abuse towards minors, teenagers, adults etc etc both verbal and physical. But that does not stop me from ringing them up and seeking their help because my house has been robbed.

      Take a look at the millions of saints canonized both clerical and non clerical in the Catholic Church down through the centuries who are pillars of how to live according to catholic teaching and the Gospel message.

      And when it comes to the protection of the unborn and children no other institution spends more money, time and effort protecting these little souls than the Catholic Church whilst the secular world buckled under compromise and butcher them daily.

      If you are going to judge institutions by the weight of their members sins, such as HSE, police force then you might as well go live in a cave because we all need to be a part of it, just like we all need to be a part of the church. Yes we should seek out and discipline those who abused and hurt others, but rejecting Christs Church and Christ himself is not the answer.

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    • Stephen its not a class in bible studies we are having. Some people dont believe in it, so be it. What people are getting at is that the papacy and the church are not actually doing what Christ taught.

      Have you ever stood in the Vatican? I was blown away by the beauty of its architecture. But to me it was all about the glory of the papacy in the guise of glory to God. I felt physically sick when I stood in the Baptistry of St Peters and viewed the sheer tonnes of gold and jewels the size of my fist, including a 4ft high solid gold triple tiara with the sole purpose of being placed on a statues head once a year. The wealth sickened me. Where is the sharing as Christ taught? The Vatican has its own bank, yet Christ threw the moneylenders from the temple.

      Tell me how would Christ not do the same if he walked into the Vatican today?

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    • Stephen, I know what my sins are and I know what to do about them. But it is pretty clear that the papacy does not know its sins nor will it do anything about them. That is why it is in decline.

      The church may do its best to protect unborn foetuses but it didnt do much to protect living breathing innocent children from paedophilia.

      So do I judge the papacy? Yes I do because it should hold to what Christ taught and it has not. Do I judge them because they have called me intrinsically evil? No I say I am sorry for your unchristian ways and I forgive you of your judgemental arrogance and disrespect to millions of good people. And then I turn the other cheek and say to zealous conservative catholics “bring it on” because I am armed with my personal faith stengthened by my intellect and no church edict or insult will ever hold sway over me.

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    • @ Connor I visited the Vatican in the late eighties . The opulence and hypocrisy of the clerics I encountered in that place opened my eyes as a young man . It showed me that those at the top were devoid of true Christian values. It was upsetting but at the same time liberating because it was the beginning of my enlightenment about the RCC and organised religion .

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    • Barry 17/02/13 #

      Stephen, you sight age of the church as it’s greatness and how that makes it true and right.

      You do realise there’s far far older belief systems right?

      The Christian faith isn’t all that old compared to others, it merely got forced upon people at the right time as part of the roman empire.

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    • Yes Tony in complete agreement with you. I was truly sickened by the decadence of it all. My personal beliefs are my own and evolved as i questioned everything and thankfully not part of an organised religion. I am sure I’d be considered a heretic by the vatican lol.

      Reply
    • Barry 17/02/13 #

      On the subject of the age of the Christian faith, as I’ve said before its a mixture of stories stolen from other religions.

      The perfect example of this is the story of Mithra, Sungod of Persia, it pre-dates the Christian faith by over 600 years!

      Pretty much all of the story for Mithra, Sungod of Persia fits with what they later claimed happened to Jesus.

      Funny that, there’s plenty other examples if you look at the history books and read the Bible.

      It’s all myths and stories, which is all fine and well if you’re a child but like all children we all grow up and we understand stories and fairy tales aren’t really.

      After all if you were 40 years of age would you think it proper to believe in the tooth fairy and the easter bunny?

      Sure no proof of them exists but people believe in them, they must exist!

      Same can be said for the god Catholics choose to believe in…. Or any god for that matter.

      What if there is a god but it turns out it’s not the god Catholics choose to believe in, so they’ve been praying to a false god, what then? :-)

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    • @ Tony Hegarty : That was one of the funniest things I have heard in awhile,thanks for sharing,that was brilliant :-)

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    • Cheers Ru Ni Digs you just gotta laugh at some of the posts , I’m surprised these guys aren’t frightened of the Internet . If being the work of the devil after all ! LOL

      Reply
    • @ Barry : Mithra was just one of many that pre date Jesus.Below is a link to another ten :

      http://listverse.com/2009/04/13/10-christ-like-figures-who-pre-date-jesus/

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    • Hi Ru here’s a personal favourite of mine http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/

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    • I’d say a lot of people interested in this particular subject might have already seen this but well worth a watch if you haven’t :

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZgT1SRcrKE

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    • @Stephen You really are a hypocrite of the highest order and a coward who is afraid to challenge injustice

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    • Barry 17/02/13 #

      Ru, well aware of the others alright :-)

      just thought mithra was the most fitting off hand, many others and older too….. But we don’t want to upset the Catholics by picking holes in their fairy tales

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    • Here Is some light reading before you all go to bed . sweet dreams sleep tight .
      http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/

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    • @ Stephen :

      “Even if someone should rise from the dead you still would not believe. Because for many it’s not a case of proof, the testimony and works of God have been evident before all in the world, but people don’t care because its a matter of the will and not the intellect.”

      You mention things like “proof,testimony,evident”,yet you offer none of these things??? It boggles the mind that you support an institution that claims to follow Christ,yet the vast wealth the Vatican holds is sickening,when you consider this :
      “Mathew 19:21 : Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”

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    • Some of the links above are amazing. The whole thing is such an amazing con. I’ve often though that we know more about the past now than the people who lived there.

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    • If ya think that bible stories good stuff wait till ya read that book about the 3 bears an some blond chick who burgles houses, now there’s no actual proof she did any of it but it’s in this book so it must be real call it faith if u will.

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    • According to Stephens logic if their were no Atheists there would be no god. Got to give it to him he’s right when he says he not an intellectual .

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    • I’ve said this before and will say it again. And as a father of three children raised without religion I found many aspects of child raising difficult in this country because the education system is controlled by the church both secondary and primary, but eventually we found a school (educate together) where my kids would not have dogma shoved down their throats. I wanted them to discover their own lives and their own belief.
      However, when my children were small each of them invariably got to a point where they asked me about God, as they’d heard other kids talking about god and other god stuff they’d heard, so they were curious.
      I explained God like this. I told them to imagine all the people in the world being inside a huge big tent, all the people, down through history, and they would all live their lives inside the tent. And the tent zip was closed always so nobody ever left the tent and nobody knew what was outside. Everybody just lived their lives inside the tent, mostly quite happily.
      Then one day somebody pondered what might be outside the tent, would it be different from inside, some others were also beginning to wonder about the same thing. So somebody imagined what might be outside, they made up a story and added little bits to the story to make it interesting. Some people liked the story, and after a while some people began to think the story might even be true, and the person who made up the story felt pretty good about themselves, people thought he was special, that he had special powers, then he put rules in his stories, rules for the people who liked the stories. He noticed that he could scare the people with some of the things he made up, this made him feel even better, the people were naive and easy to scare.
      Other people made up their own stories about what was outside the tent and those people started to get believers too, even though their stories were very alike. Soon there were many different groups and each group believed a different story about what was outside the tent. Sometimes the different groups had big arguments and sometimes even wars. And lots of people got hurt or even died. Sometimes millions of people died just because they couldn’t agree about their stories. The arguments were pretty silly because they were all just about the stories, and the stories were pretty much the same because the people had a very limited understanding of the world way back then.
      And even now the wars and the arguments still continue, thousands of years later about the same stories.
      And still nobody knows what is outside the tent because nobody has opened the zip. Nobody ever went outside. So nobody knows what’s there, and maybe nobody ever will.

      This was how I explained God to each of my children around the age of 6 or 7, it was simple. Later if they really wanted to they could research the various religions and trace back the connections between Christ and other Gods and prophets who’d been popular before, like Horus, they could see how the creation of myth and stories helped shape mans early understanding of life and the world. They could see the useful part it played and they could see the terrible evil done over the centuries in the name of some god or other. My children can believe whatever they want, they have truly open minds because that was how they were raised.

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    • That’s an excellent analogy for your kids William, it should really be taught to every child by every parent and teacher

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    • Get your facts right !

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    • William I agree an excellent analogy . Your children are very fortunate to have
      such an honest , intelligent , open minded Father.

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    • But William, – are the atheists not in their OWN tent also?

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    • Well done Zoe, everyone is in the tent, everyone. And NOBODY knows what’s outside. I know I don’t know, and I accept that, I am comfortable in my life not knowing what’s outside, we are learning more about the reality of our universe every year, and every year and every step forward leaves behind the old myths like Mithra and Jesus and man being made in Gods image etc. The more we discover the less significant we become in the greater view, on our mote of dust on a sun beam. But the more we discover the more exciting life becomes the bigger life become. The realisation that this life is ‘probably’ all there is should encourage us all to do our best to respect this wonderful event a life is and to make it count for something.
      Oh by the way the tent is a metaphor, before people start talking about ground sheets and awnings and sleeping bags ok.

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    • Zoe Daly 18/02/13 #

      I agree with your point, that whether we are believers or non believers, – nobody really knows for sure. We are all to some extent, ‘in the tent’.

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    • It is the atheists who shove their brand of religion down people’s throats and moreover they want the state to espouse their religion and marginalise everyone else’s ! Just read these comments daily and you ll find the real face of modern atheism – intolerant , bigoted and oppressive !

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    • Anthony, are Atheists as intolerant, bigoted and “oppressive” as those Catholics that burned a Scientist at the stake for saying that the Earth went around the Sun, massacred 20,000 Protestants in Paris and struck a medal to celebrate it, locked up 10,000 “fallen” women, abused tens of thousands of children and then covered it up?

      Zoe, there’s a big difference between a scientist saying that he’s not 100% sure of anything (which to a large extent is a technical and mathematical matter) and someone without a shred of evidence believing that someone born to a carpenter in the middle east 2000 years ago is a god who made the universe.

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    • Anthony the all knowing oracle has spoken . LOL

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    • Yes Zoe nobody knows for sure, yet people have died because of this dispute over faith, many of those deaths have been in the name of Christ or Allah or many others. Many have suffered terrible pain and torture and abuse in the name of Christ. And their grief has been ignored and dismissed by the head of Christs Church. These are simple realities and nothing to do with faith just simple truth. Which is more likely to withstand scrutiny the truth or a faith ? There is always only one truth there are many flavours of faith. The truth is what has been done, and what can be proven. The truth is universal and expand far beyond mankind trivial beliefs and fears. We can be wonderful and amazing all on our own, and we can truly live our own lives without myth and legend obfuscating reality.

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    • Strange how the oppressor claims to be oppressed by the minority . Typical tactic employed by fascist Roman catholic ideology .

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    • I don’t think there’s an atheist version of the Angelus on RTÉ every day Anthony, or atheist literature clogging up your mailbox, or posters on public transport, or Atheist class in between Maths and Geography at school, or atheists telling you not to wear condoms, what kind of sex moves are okay, what women should really do / wear / go, see where I’m going here? The comments section is for discussion among the public, our private lives, are not. Give me one example when someone who was an atheist impinged on your privacy.

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    • Well said Gaius! I find it hilarious that Anthony says atheists are bigotted when I see some of the intolerant bigotted garbage he spouts in the name of his oh so tolerant organised religion.

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    • In all fairness Conor it not a fair debate as poor Anthony and Stephen do appear intellectually challenged .

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    • In all fairness Conor it not exactly a fair debate as poor Anthony , Stephen , Regano and the Klingon do appear intellectually challenged .

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    • I have been reading your contributions on this and on other thread and on others. I respect your views, I appreciate your opinion and you are totally entitled to it.
      Where you live, when you need to send your kids to secondary school you probably have many choices and options, and all those schools will teach your child through your faith. I’m afraid I don’t have that option with my child nor did my parents. My children must go to a Christian school and attend religious classes, though they don’t believe what is being taught.
      I am Irish and always have been, as far back as you care to go. But my children must endure religious dogma forced down their throats, or else it’s home schooling.
      Maybe the state should build a ghetto and bundle all the nonbelievers into it and brand their arm and have them wear some symbol for atheism, even though there is none, I’m sure the church will invent one.
      I have attempted thus far to take you seriously and not laugh and your anger and your bigotry, but I have only so much self control, please understand that.

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    • William you sound like a great Dad that is very mindful of his childrens future. Kudos to you indeed. Your analogy earlier was excellent.

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    • The above comment was directed to Anthony.
      Now I must go and change my wetted pants lol…the Klingon…that’s just class…

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    • Stephen your analogy with the pig is interesting . There may be some here on these posts that think your not fit to eat with pigs …..well I disagree ….. I think you are! LOL

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    • I’m curious about Stephen too, not about the silly pig analogy but about his own beliefs, and his refusal to debate and explain realistically the reality of his faith. When ever anyone mentions the crimes of the church either he disappears or says he’s not concerned with such matters that the church is about much more than that, I think this is evasive and essentially suggests to me that young Stephen is in denial about the Church and he is forced to regurgitate some gobblydigook nonsense that’s straight out of a primary school catechism. I ask others to please read his posts again carefully and ask yourself if this man is deeply deluded. I understand he’s had a difficult time with his wife’s ill health and that can cause deep stress upon a person, but many of us have gone or are going through different crises. I like the guys songs he’s very talented in that regard, and I find it very difficult to equate the two. I know this thread is about a particle news article but Stephen is the one who brings his personal life into the thread, nobody else.
      If you read carefully through his comments you will realise HE didn’t actually say anything himself, because he doesn’t seem to actually have a voice, otherwise he would answer the questions put to him, it’s all just smoke and mirrors hookum, I can’t equate this with the talented songwriter I’ve heard, Stephen if you’re out there and if you want someone to talk to, PM me via my facebook page by clicking on my name, I’m a nice nonjudgmental bloke.

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    • William , I only jest however I do see your point about Stephen. He has really exposed his personal life and that of his family on past posts . That i feel makes him vulnerable to unwelcome attention in his private life. I too am intrigued and perplexed by him . I’m sure he’s not a bad person . However I am unable to engage Stephen on a personal level and am reluctant to share to much information concerning my private life in case some unscrupulous persons decide to make a personal vendetta due to any posts made by me here. I’m not saying that Stephen would but I can’t say the same for others who share his belief . I believe it would probably be safer to engage Stephen on his blog or through Twitter .

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    • William I definitely see others here with exactly the same eyes closed and ears closed, mind turned off but spouting that which they learned in catechism or from the pulpit.

      Having faith is a great thing, but to never question it or try and evolve it seems like sheer lunacy to me. Adherence to dogma for the sake of it and defence of the clearest wrongs committed to society is even more bizarre. In a way I feel sorry for people like that as they’ll never know the pleasure of self enlightenment and self evolution.

      Oh well at least your three kids will not be like that!

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    • Tony, thanks for that link very informative, in a whack-nut extremist kind of way, he thinks evolution doesn’t exist. And obfuscates discussion with mumbo jumbo claptrap, seriously ********. In fact I’m kind of alarmed by this perspective I thought this belonged in bible belt back waters of the US, and that we’d moved on from there. WTF!

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    • Indeed I think I read somewhere that his wife is American . Can’t imagine a spouse not holding the same extreme views . I’d imagine It would be a very difficult relationship if they didn’t . Personally I find his ideology dangerous .

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    • To any open minded balanced person Stephen would be described as a religious fundamentalist and extremist. Anybody who doubts this please research the mans blog carefully and in radio comments yourself. In Stephens view I am a Heretic, how’s that for 21st century logic. Be aware.

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    • I’ve just heard the radio interview, I think you quickly realise that sometimes it is futile to try and lay out the truth to some people, so deeply ingrained are their beliefs. It’s like an addiction, everyone will tell you to give up but unless you yourself want to, it’ll never happen. Sam Harris described it as the partition of the human brain, where seemingly intelligent people (especially those in the scientific professions) throw aside reality and evidence on a Sunday and become god-fearing attendees at mass, and then on Monday are back in the laboratory carrying out research. I think that you can appeal to people who are open to evidence, but for those who are steeped in dogma and faith, nothing you could say could convince them otherwise, these are the people I am afraid of, honestly.

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    • Consider for a moment that Stephen is a fifth columnist whose mission it is to alienate people from the RCC . There’s a lot of anti catholic christens out there
      and his particular style of rhetoric is more akin to middle America Bible Belt extremism . Clearly his public demonstrations are damaging to the image of the church(not that I’m complaining) but can anyone in fact prove that any members of the RCC hierarchy actually give credence or support to this guy ! Either way no matter what labels fanatical extremists wear . Their always a threat to the free thinking people of this world !

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    • As we know opinion on matters is sometimes formed on the go, and for many people they may be swayed one way or another by what seems like sincerity or a seeming benign spirituality. If anyone is interested in following up on this matter about pretty much anyone it isn’t hard to gather a strong picture of their opinion based upon their posts. Google me and I’m sure it wont take long to flesh me out. I am opinionated online and because of that I leave a trail of comments etc. This is also true of Stephen Mc Elligott and I gathered a rather different picture than the impression one might get on the journal. The picture I now have is of someone who is intolerant of lapsed christians who he essentially views as heretics. He refuses to judge and I think he believes he cannot judge the Vatican. On this very thread he states “I don’t judge any institution in the world that holds, teaches and lives according to the moral code they have according to the behaviour of their members.” Which means if an institution have a moral code that deems it necessary to conceal abuse then thats ok with him. Or am I missing something here I don’t think so.

      He belongs in the revisionist/traditionalist Roman Catholic…with unwavering loyalty to Rome…scary.

      Oh and I forgot to ask him if he approved the use of condoms…in Africa…anywhere…I think I know the answer to that…though I might be surprised.

      I’ve been working from home for the last couple of days, I need to get out more…lol

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  • People can say what they like but the evidence is there of the love and respect for Pope Benedict across all age groups as seen in the Square today.
    No amount of anti-Catholic comment or trolling will change reality.

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  • You damn fools, there is no sanctuary!

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  • No better time for a revolution in the catholic church.time to get back to following Christ ie loving all us sinners instead

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  • Great to see big crowds for Benedicts mass today. Its just a sign theres life there yet and renewed hope for the future for the survival of it despite efforts by many to discredit it and destroy it. Shows what a good man benedict was when crowds of this size attend mass.

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    • The greatest efforts to discredit the church have been those exerted by the outgoing pontiff and his gang of red-robed moral delinquents.
      They cannot regain a shred of ethical credibility until they open their vaults and share their records of criminal priests, bishops and cardinals with the relevant national authorities.
      Till then, they are a just a bunch of antiquated, hypocritical shake-down artists.

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    • Good to see you support the man wearing the odd dress with psychotic issues , imaginary friends in the sky comes to mind

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  • Hata’s gone hate yo.

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