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Dublin: 13 °C Sunday 19 May, 2013

12-year sentence for ‘road rage’ manslaughter

Karl Donohue is jailed for 12 years for the manslaughter of a British man who he attacked with a hurley in September 2010.

A 31-YEAR-OLD man has been jailed for 12 years, with the final two years in suspended, in what is thought to be Ireland’s first conviction for ‘road rage’.

Karl Donohue had pleaded guilty at the Criminal Courts of Justice last week to the manslaughter of Raymond Bates, a 49-year-old Englishman who who was doing temporary work in Ireland as an inspector on a gas pipeline being laid in Dublin.

RTÉ reported that Bates had drank “around ten pints” while watching a soccer match in Sandymount on 26 September 2010. When driving home, he and Donohue got into an argument after Donohue did not pull away from a junction quickly enough.

Bates began to tailgate Donohue, who later said he feared his car – in which he was travelling with his young daughter – would be rammed.

After Bates attempted to overtake and cut across Donohue’s path, Donohue got out of his vehicle and began to hit Bates’ jeep with a hurley.

When Bates got out of the vehicle, Donohue struck him with the hurley on his left temple, causing him to collapse to the ground.

Bates attended St Vincent’s Hospital the following day for his injuries, but fell into a coma and died three days later.

Donohue had told Gardaí in the aftermath of the attack that Bates had “got what he deserved”, though at the time he had not known the extent of Bates’ injuries.

PA reported that Bates’ widow Brenda, who had been married to him for 28 years, shouted “Yes” when the sentence was read out, before bursting into tears. She had to be escorted from the courtroom.

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Comments (70 Comments)

  • This is a go that hit a man in the head with a hurley, and then continued to hit him when he was lying on the ground. He was already on bail for arson, and has numerous other convictions, and people are on here advocating the guy killing somebody because they cut him up on the road.

  • Despite the guilty plea, he can still appeal the severity of the sentence.

    • @ Reg if you want to defend the agressive drunken antics of an englishman thats your perogative my point is he was not only provoked but both his and his daughters saftey were threatened by this drunken lout in my opinion I probably would have done the same thing however right or wrong it may seem , unfortunatley for Bates he paid for his stupidity with his life Donoghue is entitled to appeal and hopfully good sense will prevail, maybe if it was a case that Bates had crashed his jeep after drinkin 10 pints and killed a person/s maybe you would not be so supportive of him

    • Why does the fact that he is english make any difference Hugh?

    • Reg 23/04/12 #

      Hugh – I am not defending his actions at all, but he didn’t deserve to die. Nowhere have I expressed support for him and I don’t really know why being english is mentioned in you post.

      There is far too much senseless violence in society and taking a hurley and hitting someone on the head with it is a very reckless thing to do also. I don’t know how I would have behaved, I know one thing though I wouldn’t have hit around the head with a hurley. I don’t carry a hurley or any other object that could be used as a weapon in my car.

    • @Hugh nice to see racism thriving…

    • :@mc granaghan , reg , Hind Bates was English, whats the problem its a fact, also to reg the fact that he used his car as a weapon by his reckless and agressive driving plus 10 pints consumed really shows the level of respect he had for all other drivers and pedestrians and Hind what p.c stone did you crawl underneath from , it is racist to refer to him as a englishman !!!!!!, you are a first class idiot

    • mattoid 23/04/12 #

      Hugh, I wonder if you’d hold the same views of the incident if it was an Englishman who attacked and killed an Irish drunk driver? Be honest with yourself…

    • @ Hugh, he sure was but you’ve used his nationality as part of your argument, inferring, whether intended or not, that it was part of the problem. Had you said the drunken antics of an idiot I’d have had no comment. What he did was wrong, very wrong, but he didn’t deserve to be beat to death with a hurley for it. Also did no-one ever teach you it’d rude to refer to someone by their surname, its Joseph or if you want to be formal Mr. McGranaghan!

    • This kind of thing happens all the time over in England. Except for the hurley bit.

    • Hugh O’Connell
      Why is it that any one who disagrees with your opinion is afool or an idiot . Your words NOT mine . Has anyone ever told you that it is rude .They may make an idiotic comment or a foolish comment ,but does not make them an idiot or a fool. :)

    • @McGranaghan, you represent the type of petty p.c. mentality that exists in Ireland today, in relation to Bates all the national newspapers and tv reported the fact that he was english and just because I refer to his nationality you have the neck to accuse me of being racist , you are a fool, nowhere in any of my postings on this topic have i been racist, your comments border on being libellous and you are treading on dangerous ground with your implications, also whats your problem with your name , are you ashamed of it , maybe , i do not know you or ever want to so your first name term is a non runner and calling you mr is a joke i never called mr to anyone in my life,think before you speak or try to pass judgement on others

    • @mattoid the facts are the facts and are as stated , dont give me the “I wonder if ” nonsense it does not count, only thing that counts are facts and that what I have stated wether you like it or not , Bates was English and had drunk 10 pints and drove in a dangerous and and was provocative , all facts ,wake up and stop throwing your toys out of your p.c. pram

    • mattoid 24/04/12 #

      Hugh, yes you did mention some facts, alongside some vitriolic personal insults and opinionated rants.
      BTW I didn’t realise it was so PC to suggest that its wrong to beat someone about the head repeatedly with a large piece of wood until you inflict fatal injuries on them. Remember that the majority of the blows were inflicted when the victim was lying defenceless on the ground, yet you seem to justify the attack by saying the perpetrator felt threatened and acted in self defence!
      I don’t know how old you are but it seems you still have lots of growing up to do – calling people fools and idiots because they have a different opinion to yours doesn’t exactly strengthen your argument.

    • @Hugh You crack me up, please check back over my two posts, nowhere have I mentioned the word racist, in fact I inserted a caveat into my second post to that effect as I really did not believe that you meant or understood the inference of your original post. However, you have continued to blindly argue the toss and hurl insults at me. If you can find me a news organisation that used the term “drunken Englishman” then I’ll be shocked because they would not dare, the inference could land them in alot of hot water!! All the reports I read stated he was drunk and the facts of the case. They then, in a separate paragraph detail his background, distancing it from the actions themselves! As for my surname, I have no problems with it, in fact I love how unique it is, but it’s is my family name, my given name that I go by is Joseph, if you have not been taught the manners and social niceties regarding addressing people then that is not my issue!!

  • So it was Bates who suffered roadrage…. He threathened Donoghue who defended his daughter in the car?

    Not to mention Bates was drunk and a danger for any other road user.

    Should be 10 years suspended

    • This guy got shafted big time. Drunken idiot gets aggressive on the road and then wants to mouth off. Unfortunate Bates died but he certainly warranted an ass kicking. The guy that delivered it surely doesn’t deserve 10 years.

    • I agree there was some provocation but Donoghue went too far:

      “When the cars later stopped, Donohoe took a hurley and hit the Mitsubishi Pajero as it blocked his path, and then hit Mr Bates several times when he got out of the car, including a fatal blow to the left temple as he lay defenceless on the ground.”

    • Maybe he was provoked … but that still does not excuse violence ,especially as his daughter witnessed it .

    • jackass ( nice name). I think Donoghue deserves a lot longer than 10 years.

    • Ed,
      where does it say he threatened Bates? Bates was struck with a hurley after being beaten to the ground and
      the killer told Gardai he got what he deserved!!
      I’ll agree to 10 years suspended..as long as Bates’ widow gets to choose what part of his anatomy donoghue is suspended by.

  • I can’t believe that some people would excuse beating a man to death with a hurley and then say hes deserves it.

    Yes there was provocation but the reaction was ultra extreme.

    Brendan, I think your remarks are despicable !!!

  • This decision is a disgrace , the Bates guy had drunk 10 pints and was driving his car in a agressive manner which could be classed as using a weapon,the defendent who had his young daughter with him felt threatened and reacted after provocation albeit with tragic results , I hope this is appealed and the case reviewed to make a more appropriate sentence considering provocation dangerous driving , threatening behaviour were major issue s here , there is no smoke without fire, had Bates had the good sense not to drive after consuming 10 pints and respect the saftey of all people on the road and path maybe this would h have not happened , Bates broke the law and disrespected the saftey of other road users to Best of luck to Karl Donoghue on his appeal

    • He had pleaded guilty so I don’t foresee an appeal.

    • Reg 23/04/12 #

      Hugh – he still struck the man on the side of the head with a hurley. Provoked or not, he killed him.

    • He can appeal the severity, and will most likely win.

    • You are welcome Madeline of the fairies…

    • @ Gavan Reilly.

      He can appeal the severity of sentence only Gavan. He may or may not choose to do so of course so there may not be an appeal – 8 years to serve does seem excessive given the circumstances outlined above. It does depend though – hitting the man once with a hurley and killing him might, arguably, be bad fortune depending on the force of the blow etc. Hitting him repeatedly (as has also been suggested) would be less likely to garner the sympathy of the Court. Of course If he did do that the DPP would more than likely have gone for the Murder charge and refused a plea to Manslaughter.

  • Poppy 23/04/12 #

    Initially I had sympathy for Donohue until I read about his colourful past (previous criminal charges for which he was on bail for). He also stated after the event that he wished the man dead as that’s what he deserved. I think the sentence was fair. After all he battered the man with a hurley stick as he lay defenceless & pleading with him to stop.

  • I’d say it’ll be reduced on appeal. There was serious provocation here, the incident was bordering on self defence considering the actions of the dead man in the run up to it. In general, Carney has a habit of being a little too severe in his sentencing for the Appeals Courts liking.

    • Oh Madeline get real. You really do live in a world of fairies and PC crap sometimes. A terrible tragedy that Bates died but Donoghue did not intend to kill him but was right to issue some pain to the idiot…

    • yeah, us politically correct do gooders condemning beating people to death…what was I thinking? of course he was ” right to issue some pain” Thank you Oisin you’ve taught me the error of my ways.. From now on I’ll carry a hurley stick , just in case i meet a psychopath from these boards. You never know when you’ll need to exercise your right to issue some pain and lay about someone with a weapon.

    • My oh My. 10 years seems excessive. May well be reduced on appeal. No one emerges from this incident with any credit. Drunken aggressive road user pursues person and then what? Does a swerving road block like a Garda squad car or a scene from CSI Miami? Then the defendant emerges from the car and hits him with a hurley in the head? Bad state of affairs all round. If it has to be a 10 year sentence (and bear in mind there are far lesser sentences handed down for bad rapes) then more should probably be suspended.

      @Oisin
      Dont be ridiculous –
      “issue some pai” – what kind of society do you want us to live in? If some lunatic did that to me I’d call the police. Which is what right-minded citizens should do.

      @Madeline
      You are just as bad as Oisin. I wonder if you’d be so sanguine if it was your daughter in the car when this drunken fool pursued you in a rage and then swerved in front of your car?

      In short – perfectly normal to lose your temper with someone like the victim who behaves in such a reprehensible fashion. But there is no justification for violence – hitting someone in the head with a hurley is completely unacceptable and if you’re going to do that then you take your chances with the outcome.

  • A drunken man behind a wheel is a more dangerous weapon than a Hurley stick.. The whole thing is just so sad. We’ve all got road rage at some stage.. Just wish the guy hadn’t died.. shame.

    • The man died from the hurley stick !
      Also if donoghoe reported Bates’ dangerous driving to the Gardai , then he may not be in jail now and the other man may still be alive . The same could be said about Bates drinking ,if he did not drink and drive that day he may still be alive ….. It is all if’s but’s and maybe’s .Unfortunately tempers flared a man is dead and from donoghues history of crime and violence he has been well and truely caught.

  • Gerard 23/04/12 #

    Why suspend 2 years of it?

  • At first I couldnt understand the severity of the sentence with the facts involved but seeing the mans past history, I can understand now…i think most of us at one point or another have felt real anger with another car who is acting aggressively…but what Donohue was way overboard…a lot of other commentators are saying about his 2 year old daughter, but Im guessing seeing daddy beat someone to death is something that will stay with her a long long time :(

  • It may have been an extreme reaction but it was an extreme situation. He was being harassed by an aggressive driver, and had his young child in the car with him. That would put a red mist on many people. I have no idea how I’d react if I was in that situation, and I hope I never find out.

    • mattoid 23/04/12 #

      He could have done the sensible thing and turned onto a side road to get away – that’s what I would have done if I felt that my child was being threatened.

    • Agree Mattoid, there was more than one solution to getting away from the drunken fool other than clubbing him to death.

    • censored 23/04/12 #

      How do you know that would have worked or that Donahue had the opportunity to get away?

      Don’t forget, he pled guilty. There was a similar recent case of a girl who deliberately crushed a father of four with her car. She got six years. I wonder why there is a such a big difference, particularly given the provocation/self-defense aspect involved in this case.

    • @Rebecca & mattoid. You’ve had hours to come up with your sensible solution, plus you weren’t in a state of panic/anger like the Donoghue guy.
      What if he followed you down the side road. A quieter road with less witnesses. Maybe all of a sudden you’d be thinking ‘what a bad idea’.
      Remember, before Bates cut up Donoghue, they already had a verbal encounter. I’m only guessing, but maybe Donoguhue pulled over to let Bates overtake. Now that’s a sensible idea, unfortunately Bates pulled over as well!

  • If someone who has drunk ten pints gets behind the wheel and berates someone else for driving carefully, he is not an “innocent victim” in my view.

  • Another shocking aspect of the case is that the incident happened pretty close to a garda station but the gardai only seemed to be involved after the victim passed away. There was dangerous driving then an aggravated assault and both got into their cars and drove off.

    • Gerard 24/04/12 #

      If nobody reports the initial incident how are the guards supposed to know about it?

    • Brendan
      The guy that was assaulted was also drink driving , so maybe he thought better of reporting the incident , he didn’t know he was going to die from his injuries. Donoghue didn’t report it as he dfecided to take the law into his own hands and batter Bates ….

  • peter 23/04/12 #

    If the drunken tramp had crashed into yer mans car and killed either him or his daughter I can guarantee you he wouldn’t have got ten years.. They would have said he is miles from his family and won’t get visits, and he will be isolated because he is English and the sentence will be so much harder for him over an Irish man. I do agree that the accused went too far and should never have hit him while he was on the ground or with a hurl for that matter. He has a right to defend himself though

    • i think Donohue is Irish?

    • wow racism is doing well in this country…what was he supposed to be defending himself from?

    • Laura,
      you’re right the Donohue is Irish, the victim was English
      peter is having a bigoted rant because the Irishman was punished for murdering an Englishman,

    • I dont believe he is at all actually Madeline. You are very quick to jump on your high horse. I’m not sure Peter is correct that the Court would have excessive sympathy for the victim (if the role was reversed) just because he was a foreigner, I don’t see how what he is saying is racist however.

      Hes being critical of what he imagines the Court MIGHT do if an Egnlish man murdered an Irishman – and criticising the Courts hypothetical actions. Which is silly certainly, but not racist.

    • Felix, I take your point and its well made, but peter is saying that nationality/race was an issue. Its a racist viewpoint. If you don’t believe me replace English with black or jewish in his post.

  • If this happened in Florida, Donohue would have gotten off. Easy to argue that his child’s life was in danger by an agitated very drunk tailgating driver in a 2ton Pajaro.
    I think the sentence was stupidly harsh. He pleaded guilty, and it was manslaughter not premeditated & the incident was instigated by the deceased.
    And no, I do not think anyone deserves to die.

    • It does not have to be “premeditated” to be murder.

    • Tim,
      far be it from me to question your expertise in International law but I see nothing to suggest that the State of Florida- or anywhere else- would forgive Donoghue’s crime. In fact he’d likely get at least a comparable sentence in a correctional facility far more unpleasant than the ones we have here.
      If you are using the self defence thing- wouldn’t happen. There is no case for self defence. If there was it would have been made.
      The assault took place when both vehicles were stopped. Bates was drunk and much older than Donohue. Donohue first picked up a hurley and attacked Bates’ car. Your self defense case ends there! That is an act of anger, not fear.
      Then Donohue hit Bates across the temple with the hurley . Hurley fell to the ground and Donohue continued to smash Bates in the head “like a man possessed” according to witnesses. How can that be a basis for self defence. What threat could Bates have posed at that point?
      I doubt that you’d find Police, Judges or jurors in Florida- or anywhere else for that matter- stupid enough to believe that was defence even without Donohue’s other crimes and the comment ” he got what he deserved”.

  • Could happen to any of us. Saw a guy beat the hell out of a taxi driver (who had it coming) at the weekend and have to say it was one of the most entertaining things I have ever seen.

    • So if someone arbitrarily decides someone else ‘has it coming’ then they’re justified in attacking them?!

    • I disagree that it can happen to any of us .I reckon a person has to be disposed to violence first , I certainly would not find it entertaining . There is something very unsettling about a statement like yours . Society should not endorse violence .

    • Brendan,
      there is no excuse for murder . I am sickened that you find this kind of thing entertaining.. I wonder what one has to do to “have it coming” in your world

    • @ Hind to answer your question ,what would one have to do or say to ” have it comming to them ” how about using the term racist without reason,?I think you understand if you are intelligent !!!!

    • HUgh, so because I’ve used the term racist I ” have it coming” and I deserve to be beaten to death?! The fact is your use of the phrase ” defending an Englishman” as though his nationality is to blame is a racist remark.
      I can’t imagine many circumstances where murder is justified and that certainly isn’t one of them.
      Although I asked the question of someone else your deliberate targeting of me for a reply – and the reply itself- illustrates what kind of man you are.

  • Has to be seen as a very severe sentence which will be appealed as such and reduced