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Dublin: 11 °C Monday 20 May, 2013

Students fear ‘two-tiered’ college system as Quinn endorses loan scheme

Bank of Ireland announces a loan scheme for postgraduate students which will go some way to replacing their former grants.

Education minister Ruairí Quinn (left) and Bank of Ireland chief executive Richie Boucher (right) launch the bank's new postgraduate loan scheme, with TCD students Conor McGinn and Jade Pollock.
Education minister Ruairí Quinn (left) and Bank of Ireland chief executive Richie Boucher (right) launch the bank's new postgraduate loan scheme, with TCD students Conor McGinn and Jade Pollock.

THE BODY representing Ireland’s college students have expressed fears that education minister Ruairí Quinn is developing a “two-tiered” system of university education, after the minister gave his endorsement to a new private loan scheme for postgraduate students.

Quinn has backed a new commercial offering from Bank of Ireland, under which participating students will have the bank pay their tuition fees directly for the duration of their studies.

The loan scheme will also see students who had previously qualified for maintenance grants – which have been removed entirely for post-graduate students from this year onward – receive up to €2,000 in loans which will be paid directly to the student.

Repayments under the scheme will be interest-only until three months after the student graduates, with capital repayments thereafter at a variable annual interest rate of 10.8 per cent.

Quinn welcomed Bank of Ireland’s initiative this morning, saying officials in his Department had “worked closely with the bank and the NTMA on this loan scheme”.

The minister said he hoped students “who were concerned about meeting the costs of post graduate studies will now be able to access these loans”.

The Union of Students in Ireland, however, was critical of the scheme – raising fears that most students would not qualify for the loans as it would be their own credit history, and not that of their parents, which was being taken into account when loan applications were being decided.

Because many students made heavy used of overdrafts or credit cards while they were in an undergraduate programme, it said, only students who were already relatively well-off would qualify for any loans – which it fears will become a long-term alternative to central government funding.

“Last year, Minister Quinn made it all but impossible for thousands of Irish students to attain a postgraduate qualification when he removed the postgraduate maintenance grant,” USI president John Logue said.

“This is patently a scheme that will only help students who are already in a comfortable financial state,” he added.

“Any students with a poor credit history, those who have the most acute need for a maintenance grant, will be denied a loan and thus denied the opoortunity to study at a postgraduate level.”

Read: Banks’ student loan schemes ‘not part of Department’s funding plans’

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Comments (50 Comments)

  • John Logue is correct. Only people with a good credit rating will get the loan approval. So that counts me out sitting on a mountain of debt called my apartment. But i’m looking forward to starting college in 6 weeks time.

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  • Outrageous. The same Minister who circulates schools rightly telling them not to endorse commercial enterprises such a Tesco tokens etc., now pops up and endorses commercial exploitation of students at exorbitant interest rates. Stinks……..

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  • At least it will fit in with our two tier health and judicial systems to name but two. Labour heading for pension and expenses cushioned oblivion.

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  • The education system in this country is really gone downhill. With rising fees (or whatever they call them), making it harder to get grants, in fact they really are doing everything possible to keep gifted students away from colleges.

    I myself returned to education 2 years ago and can see the effects on students. Luckily I got my fees paid by the VEC but there are lads who didn’t and I’ve had to see some of the most talented potential engineers leave the course because they couldn’t afford the fees nor would the college allow it to be paid in installments.

    Then comes this intern scheme or scam as most of my lecturers called it, in the coming years you can nearly be guaranteed that any student graduating will be unemployable if they don’t do 2 years internship.

    Now they are introducing student loans in a roundabout way. How long do you think it’ll take to filter down to students entering college? I give it a year two max!!

    Whereas I do believe that some costs should be incurred for a top class education this is really a bit much especially when people are struggling to do the best for their kids while trying to keep food on the table and a roof over their heads. I believe everyone has the right to the same standard of education whether they’re rich or poor.

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  • Student loans are already shaping into the next unsustainable debt bubble in the US.

    It’s not to late to pay heed on the experience of others BEFORE we repeat their mistakes!

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  • In favor of student loans but 10.8% is extortion compared to the UK rates:

    http://www.studentloanrepayment.co.uk/portal/page?_pageid=93,6678642&_dad=portal&_schema=PORTAL

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  • Ruairi Quinn , Maggie Thatcher would be very proud of her protege. I think anti-Labour should be considering a name change to new Tory. Would be more appropriate.

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  • i am hoping to start college in sept and altho it wont be nice paying increased fees i just count my lucky stars they are not as high as the u.s or even britain now

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    • That’s not a healthy attitude. There is always something worse to point to, this does not detract that the government and a LABOUR EDUCATION minister are making clear moves to exclude certain sectors of society from accessing education while at the same time lining the coffers of banks who are currently being financially propped up by the futures of the young people in this country.
      This is wrong, counterproductive and pretty damn evil, no matter what the situation is elsewhere.

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  • 2 years after finishing University, there is one thing that still keeps me attached to the place – paying off a loan that I was forced to take out to cover the cost of my Masters. I have been lucky however, in the past few months I have been engaged in full-time work; yet the loan repayments will continue to hit my monthly income for years to come. For these reasons and for many more I shall outline, I will gladly add my voice to those condemning this new student loan scheme as rolled out by one of Ireland’s largest banks.
    This represents yet another example of the neo-liberal assault on Irish education, with corporate interests yet again infringing on Third Level education in a wholly disastrous fashion for students. After the well-chronicled problems with the student loan system in the US and elsewhere, with the number of people who are simply unable to repay rising constantly, we are presented with a proposal that has been proven to weigh down graduates with debt for the majority of their working lives. Third level institutions are not corporate entities but providers of a social good which should be attainable by academic merit and not by the financial means of one’s parents.
    Further to this, such a scheme now permits the Government to raise fees to whatever figure it sees fit with an assurance to parents that these crippling loans will cover any hike they decide to introduce. This scheme flies in the face of both official Government policies, maintaining the registration fee, and the recently re-confirmed stance of the Union of Students in Ireland, which is to fight for free education.
    So much of this scheme presupposes that students walk into jobs immediately after graduation. So much of it is premised on the false idea that graduates get jobs that pay much more than those who didn’t attend college, therefore making the loan repayments quite manageable. Ask any graduate, and you’ll find out this is untrue. Look at the rising levels of youth unemployment, hear the endless stories of young people emigrating; these are real occurrences happening on a daily basis. Young people’s confidence levels are so low, while suicide rates are soaring.
    We cannot leave the funding of higher education up to the reckless lending of financial institutions, hell-bent on making either the parents or the graduates, financial slaves to their student loan cause. We need to argue for education to be funded by a central progressive taxation system. We need to say that education at all levels should be open to all, with no financial barriers. The only way to achieve this is to see education as a human right and as a social good, something that is funded progressively by taxation, with those at the top of the pile paying their fair share of taxes. This must be our demand.

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    • Very well said , Congratulations on your masters and I am sure you will go far and use your education for ”good”. I agree with all you have said especially ” We need to say that education at all levels should be open to all, with no financial barriers. The only way to achieve this is to see education as a human right and as a social good, something that is funded progressively by taxation, with those at the top of the pile paying their fair share of taxes. This must be our demand.”
      Well said Joseph , we need people like you .

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  • gingerman the front line staff maybe suffering but the chief execs and ex-chief execs are still getting all the perks, wages etc and if you can find proof there not then I will say I’m wrong, were all expected to believe that just because the bank staff have taken a hit and seen perks and salaries cut that oh my the banks must be good again, eh no chance its not a past time its continuous anger from people who aren’t gonna be fooled by the lads at the top who are still breaking salary caps and yet we can’t find a dime to fund a student loan scheme!

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  • I guess another initiative that’ll increase the brain drain, or limit the potential of those remaining here.

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  • 10% another joke , just another way of robbing the people and said to be a good deal by the so called labour party , thats the present labour party wearing the blueshirt, FG. way is now the labour partys way.

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  • Disgusting
    Keep the masses uneducated, thus the privileged will stay where they are

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    • SeanS 07/08/12 #

      Are people really that paranoid about government policy? Do they really think that the whole point of this is to keep the rest of us in the dark, and thus stay in power? Surely it’s an issue of government income, or lack thereof.

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    • Although you have a point Sean I fully agree with Thomas. Unless education remains ‘free’ or as close to free as possible then this country will never see itself crawl out of economic downturn. Allow those who want to learn to do so without worrying about money, this is one area there should be no bargaining on!

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    • Im that paranoid about all government policy are we still hanging on to the ways of the old system.I think the overwhelming amount of evidence over the last few years would lead one to believe that the new system is up and running and is showing all the signs of huge inequality 2007 everyone’s tippin away happy out fast forward 5yrs and the whole globe is on its knees there’s new sherrifs in town lads and their not taking any prisoners.If we keep thinking in the mindset of the way things were and trying to adapt them to what’s happening now it will be another 5yrs before we realize there’s a completely new agenda.Same faces different orders.

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  • the loan scheme is a joke designed for the rich kids while anyone with a bad credit or no credit history will suffer, the minister is looking for a good photo op endorsing this cos I can tell ya most students im in college with wouldnt qualify for this. If your gonna do it right set up a student loan scheme where everyone gets a clean slate and is allowed borrow, I mean it can’t be that hard to get a bank to do that, esp considering the billions were giving to them to fund there bloated wages, company cars, golf memberships etc.

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  • The banks win again.

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  • Just trying to stop our Children being educated, because they know fine well with the present climate plus relying on the banks will prevent many intelligent Irish people from getting to College so now causing the next generation problems, makes me angry…..

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    • SeanS 07/08/12 #

      Why would they wilfully want to prevent anyone an education? It doesn’t really make any sense. Funding is cut because the money isn’t there to sustain it. Yeah, funding could be cut elsewhere (dole, health services, wages etc etc) to sustain it but no matter what happens, someone’s worse off.

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    • Paul 07/08/12 #

      Sean of course it makes sense, to them that is. This is all about keeping the poors out of the professions and maintaining an uneven playing field so the children of the elites don’t have to compete for jobs with the lads form the local council estate.

      Reply
    • SeanS 07/08/12 #

      I think that’s a very twisted way to look at it, and it suits the current Irish perspective on bankers and politicians to think that way, basically another stick to beat them with. I’m not saying there’s not some degree of truth to it in the sense that maybe those better off will be able to afford a higher standard of education for their kids and by that logic find jobs a little easier to come by but to me that’s a by-product, not the motivation behind it.

      I mean for example, if you cut spending on health services, it would probably mean that some of the people poorer areas would suffer, possibly even some will die because of it, but that’s a by-product of the cut, not the motivation behind it. You’d be hard pressed to say that spending is cut to kill of some of the less well of of society and thus give the the higher echelons of society lower waiting times and an all round better bang for their buck.

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    • SeanS 07/08/12 #

      If anything you would think that a well educated and dedicated workforce would be of more benefit to them, their family and friends than a nation of unskilled . Surely such a workforce, coupled with the right business policies, would make for a much more sustainable economy, more jobs, more competitive labour markets etc etc.

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    • Paul 07/08/12 #

      Not really Sean. If you take the view that resources are limited then it makes perfect sense that the greedy neo-liberal elites would want to keep as much for themselves as possible….that’s how they operate. Why spread the wealth and why create new wealth if it means their own fat pockets would suffer?

      Reply
  • 10.8% ffs!

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  • Reg 07/08/12 #

    It’s amazing the number of parents who haven’t saved a penny towards their children’s third level education and who could have well afforded to over the last 15 years. Third level education was never free, there are loads of costs involved, especially for those that have to live away from home. I suppose some people just though that they could fund the costs out of their current income, but with reduced incomes and increased taxes there’s a major shortfall now for some parents that may have to be filled with borrowing. So if you have young kids and you would like them to have the opportunity to go to third level start saving if you can.

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    • it’s a very good point – college was never free.
      I’m trying to save for our lads now, and it isn’t easy. But I’m not ignoring the possibility of it being needed. I just hope I don’t need to use it for other reasons someday.
      As a parent now (who also went to college) I’d feel like I’m doing my kids a disservice by not saving if I can. Saying that, i don’t think college is the only option/solution.
      I do think the level of career guidance (at least as it was in my school) is not good enough. I hope it has improved.

      I’d be interested in knowing how many people can’t afford to go to college because their parents didn’t bother to save for them (assuming that they actually could of saved of course)

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  • Arch, the cheek of you it does matter, it matters to all those future Students who have their heart set on College…

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    • SeanS 07/08/12 #

      The maintenance grant is still available for undergraduate courses (for now at least) meaning that anyone that qualifies can avail of it up to an honours degree level.

      Reply
  • Eoin Faz 07/08/12 #

    After 3 or 4 years of college will students learn that 10.8% interest is not a very deal?

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    • See my above post. The UK student loan company is gov. run and charges 1.5% interest. IF properly administered it should be a fairer system than the grants that the recipients pay back when earning. Would take pressure off parents.

      Once you are in college you are entitled to the
      loan regardless of credit history. Payments direct to University so less chance of abuse.

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  • Tom. Check your facts about the bank perks you mentioned and the bloated salaries. Not many bank employees left on those terms and conditions. You are indulging in that favourite Irish pastime of scapegoating

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  • Arch who cares if my grammar is bad this is only a forum its not serious and if i wanna have bad grammar so be it, when I need to I’ll put effort into my typing so less of the insults thanks since you seem to have such a high opinion on college

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  • What about those of us doing undergraduate studies who are not eligible for tuition or maintenance grants? Why should this only apply to postgrads? Thats what happens when its left to the private sector!! Only the most profitable matters!

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  • Doesn’t matter – postgraduate studies are largely unneccesary and superfluous to the demands of industry. The master and doctorate programmes, orginally aimed at producing lecturers and professors, should be reserved for the relatively small demand for lecturers and professors. You only need an undergraduate degree to work in industry/practice for most professions. I don’t see the problem here.

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    • Couple of points -

      1 – University education isnt just for the needs of industry, its also for the needs of society outside of economy.
      2 – Masters education is essentially mandatory for huge areas of industry, from biochem, engineering, to law to even commerce and government positions.

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    • Master’s level degrees are increasingly becoming the industrial standard in pharma, biotech and engineering. PhD Degrees are often necessary for high level research positions in chemical and drug companies.

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    • Agree with Eoghan and Ian, most top engineering and science companies wont even look at you without PhD or masters at the minute.
      To be honest Arch, I would argue that an undergraduate degree is not adequately equipping students with the skills for industry. From my experience of working with engineering graduates from Europe I would be of the opinion that they are qualifying at a higher standard than there Irish counterparts.

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    • Arch, I don’t know where you get your information, but it is completely and utterly wrong. And anyway it’s largely besides the point, industry isn’t the be all and the end all of society, how about technological/cultural progress, equality and innovation? Those are good things too.

      And Doctorates being solely for producing lecturers? Are you serious?

      Reply
  • “Students fear not being able to arse around for a few years after college”

    Fixed your headline.

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  • The government doesn’t want the nation educated. They can get away with more when we’re too busy paying off loans and trying(failing) to feed,clothe and house ourselves to notice the underhand dealing and outright corruption. I think we need to put a law into our constitution that any politician caught with his grimy fingers in the coffers should be shot and skinned along with their immediate family and past crooks like Charlie h and Ray b should be dug up and dumped at sea with bin laden!

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  • Currently in my final year of a degree. I think there should be a government backed loan scheme (at very low interest rates) in place to pay for fees or just to help students through the tough financial times that goes with full time education. I would have no problem paying increasing fees If there was. Also all grants should be tied in with results if you don’t pass then your grants should be cut (excluding difficult circumstances). In my particular course there is a lot of people who are not cut out for engineering and are just wasting tens of thousands each year due to lack of effort and laziness. Even if some eventually pass they would never be hired in industry. Also there should the higher grants to encourage people to do courses that are in demand from industry. Companies still have to go abroad and recruit people for certain jobs even with our so called skilled workforce they keep banging on about.

    Reply

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