Bananna republic led by monkeys.

Between this and those clowns in Kerry County Council we’re a laughing stock alright.

The world stopped laughing some time ago.

Not sure exactly what Ireland is supposed to be celebrating with this so called “gathering”, but one thing is for sure, Ireland has become little more than a brown stain on a map of the world best observed via satellite or from a distance of 30,000 feet from a passenger jet as you pass over it.

Mike
On the one hand Aine is talking about the Courts which are Constitutionally independent of the Executive. At the same time she is critical of a Motion put before a rural County Council on drink driving and supported principally by three fellow councillors who are also publicans.
From these facts you reach for your long gun and take aim at a Nation or a State or a Government . Most rational people would believe that your somewhat short on logic.

@ mark/paddy/michael or whatever false identity you have decided to cower behind this week.
Will you kindly give the phone back to the adult and stop showing how much of an idiot you are.

Mike
Monkeys and idiots are the word you use regularly to respond to anyone that has a viewpoint different to your own. Do you have kids Mike? Would you like them to learn how Daddy does his bullying on line so they can grow up and be like Daddy?
Do you see the potential consequences Mike for your behavior towards Members of the Government or indeed anyone with major responsibility in Irish Society? Do you realize how offensive you can be?
Do you understand how the English language can be used in a more polite way to disagree or challenge someone without becoming a complete degenerate and exposing a lack of education combined with a quirk of personality?

@ mark,paddy,michael or whatever false and cowardly false identity your cowering behind.
Your nothing but a sad and pathetic troll so why should anybody pay any attention to your verbal bullying.
Why are you hiding your identity and choosing to verbally attack people,why not come out and then you might get a bit of respect .

How sad!

Were you wearing your Fianna Fáil goggles?

Mandatory sentences for rape are a bad idea, even groups that represent victims of rape don’t endorse them. When you have a mandatory sentence for anything, there is no incentive to plead guilty so individuals charged with such offences will always contest them. E.g. the mandatory ban for drink-driving means our lower courts are jammed with individuals contesting these charges.

A person accused of rape therefore would be incentivised to contest the charge. For a rape victim, this would involve putting them through a trial and testifying against their accused in person, which can be an incredibly traumatic experience.

Very, very skeptical about FG/Lab’s motives here – guidelines won’t change anything, mandatory sentencing is a bad idea of the reasons cited, among others, and the politicians know it. Sounds like a bunch of hot air to me.

Let’s just be clear on this, Patrick Doyle was tried, convicted and sentenced to 12 years, he’s on bail pending appeal, the overwhelming likelihood is that there will be a custodial sentence to be served even after the appeal, probably by the end of this year if he gets an expedited hearing at the Court of Criminal Appeal. In the context of offences that happened 30 years ago, I’m not sure what the huge fuss is over a few more months before he goes to jail.

If we’re serious about sentencing reform, it might be a better idea to look at ways of using community service, restorative justice, and other innovations to better deal with petty offenders and free up prison resources for more serious offenders.

Speaking of prison resources, staff numbers 10% below even authorised levels. Coincidence? http://www.herald.ie/news/prison-staff-levels-down-300-after-latest-cuts-3323510.html

But nobody ever lost votes by talking tough on sex offenders.

As opposed to what,letting them go free or allowing them to pay a fine,or a couple of years in prison??? There should a mandatory minimum sentencing that matches the impact of the crime on it’s victim.Criminals get more support than the victims of their crimes.

The impact on each victim isn’t the same for each instance of a particular type of crime, and the circumstances and blameworthiness of the offender aren’t the same for each instance for a particular type of crime. Mandatory sentencing sounds nice in theory, but in practice leads to absurd results:

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57433184/fla-mom-gets-20-years-for-firing-warning-shots/

If that’s the case, abusers should get a life sentance. That’s the length of time it impacts the victim for.

The mandatory sentence for a drugs conviction for amounts over 10 grand is 10 years.Correct me if I’m wrong but I have never seen this been enforced.The judges seem to use their discretion.As I said,there should be a mandatory minimum sentencing,where as for example a conviction for rape could have a mandatory sentence of 10 years and the judge use his discretion as whether to increase this sentence based on the impact on the victim.

Mandatory sentencing for drugs offences has been ignored by the judiciary. What’s needed is a dose of reality for the wigged ones and compulsory path taking by defence solicitors to stop them lying for their clients; he minds his sick mother/brother/dog. He’s on a fas course. He’s sorry. Twas the drink. Same old bullshit in the courts every single day.

Compulsory oath taking

@ Voodoo – you seem to me a bit emotionally detached from the heinous nature of this crime and conviction.
Lacking in empathy with the victim ? Perhaps not , I am sure you will like to clarify.

You also express quite a lot of confidence in the eventual outcome ( i.e. a custodial sentence ) – what do you know that others don’t ?

And assuming you are right what rationale do you propose to counter “the fuss” that his sentence is not commenced ?

Listen, someone very dear to me is a rape survivor, and I lost a friend to a predatory attack last summer, please don’t even attempt to lecture me with the usual “mollycoddling the criminals” nonsense.

Empathy for the victim does mean supporting longer jail terms in every instance. People often criticise the criminal justice system for focussing too much on the offender, but this idea that sentencing has to be harsh “for the victim” is equally more concerned with what’s done to the offender rather than what’s done for the victim.

I’d personally support setting up something like the Probation Service to help victims, both in the trial process, and in the longer term. From my experience, healing the emotional scars takes more than just punishing the perpetrator, and we should be prepared to put money into victim services.

To his credit, Aodhán Ó Ríordán has suggested something like this approach, I think it’d do more for victims in the long run than calling for offenders to be strung up.

http://www.labour.ie/press/listing/1358874295913593.html#.UP7USkm6aNU.twitter

Ru ni Digs…. I agree 100%…. I hate it when a member of the government says that …. and it happens alot.. no progress at all!! Frustrating!!!

Voodoo criminology: your comment about how the ‘offences happened 30 years ago’ is DISGUSTING. You completely trivialise that this woman was a CHILD who was raped repeatedly by her FATHER 30 years ago. Do you remember your childhood? I remember when I was 8/10/12 and luckily those are happy memories. Think now what this poor woman has to remember. How long who he raped her is irrelevant as is his age and health.

The offences happened 30 years ago. Sentence has been postponed for a matter of months. Failing to see what’s so disgusting about that observation, or how it trivialises anything. I just think that the reaction here is a bit disproportionate under the circumstances – if he’d been let off scot free, it’d be fair enough, but that’s just not the case.

Correct me if i am mistaken but my understanding of this case is that he eventually pled guilty, was sentenced to 12 years with 9 of those 12 years suspended, so he would have to serve 3 years in prison (most likely 2 in reality with good behaviour). In another circumstances he would have been remanded immediately (he admitted guilt) but in this case the judge let him out on bail pending his appealing his sentence as he suffered from Ill health (although the prison services said they were fully capable of caring for his condition in prison). He has a prescribed amount of time to appeal the sentence (not sure how long). Considering the reaction this very lenient (IMHO) sentence I would be surprised if he did appeal as he is likely to have less of the sentenced suspended if he does not win his appeal. What he did to his victim is appalling and he should be in prison tonight and, apart from the leniency of the sentence, this is a very poor decision by the judge.

If he doesn’t pursue the appeal, he goes to jail. He’s been released on bail until the appeal gets on for hearing – it is unusual for this to happen, but that’s how things stand.

I wouldn’t like to speculate on what the Court of Criminal Appeal will do, but it seems unlikely unlikely in the very extremes to me that this guy won’t be in prison by the end of the year.

You are 100% correct Eamonn. i dont even understand the debate about this issue.

Very troubling , the “stand by your man” act alright. I hope her daughter has a good support structure to counter these appalling betrayals

I’m revolted by the Judge in this case. Kenny has appealed to victims to continue to come forward… for what… to be let down by our Justice System. No wonder they don’t bother.

@ ,Colm, I agree completely. There is however a horrifyingly real explanation, as to why some fathers would do such a vile thing. According to professor John O’ Keefe of UCD, approximately two to three per cent of the population are psychopaths. They are incapable of feeling remorse, they have no conscience and see people, including children as objects, including their own children. It should be noted that the majority of them are socially adept at hiding their true nature.

Keith. Jimmy Savile did’nt live in Ireland, so he would probably be rotting away in a UK prison, if he had lived to be tried for his crimes.

I’m only putting forward a guess here but it may have something to do with the fact that the government and judiciary are supposed to be separate, as in – the government can’t be seen to be forcing the courts decisions..

I could have this all wrong but that’s my understanding of it.

he pleaded guilty, it’s the sentence that’s being appealed, I’d guess there’s more of a chance of it being increased……. hopefully anyway

This is my fear also. I have little doubt that it won’t happen. At best at this stage the rapist will be left with the excuse for a sentence given by Carney.

My thoughts have been with the poor girl all day, since I heard her on the radio.

However if the furore leads to longer sentencing in the future and the demise of Mr. Justice Carney perhaps some good will come out of this appalling travesty.

Having a fair bit of experience around the courts, Brian’s “point” is complete and utter nonsense – the adverse publicity point only applies in jury trials, not for the Court of Criminal Appeals, where three judges assess the sentence on principle. Just so you know.

Keith, I got what you meant, and in this country, no doubt at all Savile would have played the illness and infirm card.If he lived to be tried in the UK, he would be in prison for the rest of his life. If he was an Irishman here, he’d get a slap on the back of the neck with a wet haddock and sent on his way. It’s the difference between the Justice systems in the two countries.

What a trite soundbite. Your comment infers that it’d be o.k. to do the crime if the perpetrator was healthy/able enough to ‘do the time’ : {

Good luck with that approach patricia ;-)

Its the only way that I know Niall. Jesus said ‘I am the way, the truth and the life, no one comes to the Father but by me”. I want the poor suffering people of our country, to go to God and tell it like it is: Do not go the corrupt court and Injustice system, run by corrupt judges and politicians. Those men are evil imposters, and this case is the evidence. My sympathy is with this lady who tried the corrupt court system in Ireland: ; Let them be abhorred for their infidelity to Truth and to Justice. Please pray to Jesus for our freedom from these unjust perpetrators of evil.

If “praying to Jesus” is our only idea, we really are fu€ked..

Surely an omnipotent god would already know exactly how it is and not need to be told?
And what if they’re praying to Jesus and asking for his forgiveness and protection? He did die for their sins, what if he reckons they need him more?

And in the grand scheme of things, I’m sure plenty of people have been praying for an end to hunger and poverty – yet neither of those types of prayers have been answered, why would he answer this one instead? It would insinuate some very strange priorities for a god..

Dear Jesus, I want my hedge trimmer back that you borrowed last week.

I am going to try this out and pray for the delivery of Patricia’s mind into reality.

Can you think of a solitary and credible reason as to why a judge would hand down a 15 year sentence but suspend 9 of those years. It’s a bonkers sentence and makes absolutely no sense.

@ Jerry Slattery

You defeat whatever point you attempt to make in line 3 of your post when you state “I presume”
Silly person.

As someone who as had the horror of having to sit through a similar case, the person was only given 5yrs with 2 and half suspended he ended up only serving 18mths. He was given the only 2 and half year because he plead guilty. for me it was a kick in the teeth the man got off lightly and from my own experience i would never recommend it to anyone who is not supported by a strong family and friends unit. I had a nervous breakdown afterwards and it has taken me years to get through it, i still suffer nightmares when i see him and a certain smell can bring it all back and i am left feeling very fragile for quiet a while.
I fully believe that there should be minimum sentences when it comes to systematic abuse of children, the men and women that abuse children know they only get a slap on the wrist if they are caught in this country. and rehab should also be a part of their sentence the man who abused me when to prison did his time and refused rehab, and when he got out moved back to the same town where i live, that has been one of the hardest things i have had to deal with

The judge asked the dpp what sentence they were recommending, she didn’t recommend any specific sentence. It seems to be related to the judge having an issue with the dpp appealing his sentences as either to hard or soft

@ Jerry.. Google Justice Paul Carneys name and you’ll find plenty of examples of fcuk ups by him in previous sentences on rapists….. He didn’t have ‘ a reason’ for giving a lenient sentence in this case either ..