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Dublin: 9 °C Friday 24 May, 2013

Anticipated HSE savings of €362m in drug payments, agency staff ‘did not materialise’

A report published by the Public Accounts Committee said that it is clear that we are still paying than other OECD countries.

Image: Eamonn Farrell/Photocall Ireland

A REPORT PUBLISHED today by the Public Accounts Committee has found that some €362 million in savings anticipated in the HSE’s budget for last year did not materialise.

The savings were supposed to be made in respect of drug payments, extra private income and the use of agency staff.

The report said that the HSE is not in a position to identify the number of its former staff who are now employed as agency staff and working in the public health system. It also said that the cost of employing an agency worker is similar to the cost of directly employing that worker.

On the issue of drugs payments the report referred to the 16 per cent of Ireland’s health budget that is used to purchase drugs, whereas in the UK, the figure is 9 per cent. A sum of €50 million would be saved annually if the price the HSE paid for drugs was the same as the price paid by the NHS in the UK.

Speaking today, chairman of the committee John McGuinness said that “it is clear that while there is likely to be savings arising from the October Agreement with the Irish Pharmaceutical Healthcare Association, we are still paying more for drugs than other OECD countries and there is a need to publish annually these figures so that we can get a handle on how much extra we are paying.”

The committee recommended that a review of the model being used to determine the budget allocation of the HSE in 2012 should be undertaken given that some of the anticipated savings never materialised. McGuinness said that a better way to present estimates might beto make provision for the full cost and then, on negotiation of a reduction, deem it a saving at the year end.

Read: HSE fails to submit €74 million worth of consultant claims>

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Comments (64 Comments)

  • Why don’t the HSE form a partnership with the NHS to procure drugs/ medicines.. More purchasing power. Win/win all round. They’re more or less buy the same drugs.

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  • Hire Someone Else, to run this white elephant.

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  • The farce that is the HSE continues to fail at new levels. €436million over budget in a day, wonderful. I wonder what the excuse will be from Minister Reilly

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  • Oh I can’t wait to hear the spin on this…
    Cue the reds and the hacks…

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  • Maybe if they stopped giving medical cards to every Tom, Dick and Harry who land in this country without ever having paid 1cent in taxes they might have some hope of saving something. The same people who give out like stink then when they are charged a “whopping” €1.50 an item since the start of the year (I’ve heard them). I know plenty of people who have worked their asses off and paid their dues who can’t get anything …. tis no wonder this country is so screwed up.

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  • The real problem is the minister failed to pass the legislation on drug pricing and charging insurers for public beds until late into the year. Also the embargo on hiring staff has meant to run wards and other nursing situations has required hiring agency which actually costs more. Ultimately you cannot keep starving the health services at a time when demand is increasing and expect the hse to stick to unrealistic budgets. You tell the dying man he can’t have care or the child with disability that they can’t have respite. What is essential is just that essential

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  • Being a breadwinner in the family earning 400e a week i find it that this is very unfair not getting a medical or just a GP card. Sometimes i think it’s better to be unemployed as they can get everything like medical card,rent allowance etc etc as for us working very hard getting nothing and paying too much tax.

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    • Most unemployed are that way simply because there are no jobs. Sure one of them would be very happy to have your job. What’s really stopping you from swapping with them if unemployment is actually as good as you say??

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    • Jeez Keith so all expectant mothers are benefit scammers and all the unemployed are unfortunate victims of the maternity brigade benefit scammers? Feck off!

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    • It’s not because that there’s no job but the problem is they don’t have patient on that job. I’m just setting an example in our hotel that they just worked for 3 or more days then they just simply go meaning they don’t have patience.

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  • Re: the national drugs bill – I did a personal small comparison test on OTC drugs here: recently purchased 48 generic Ibuprofen from a pharmacy – cost €7.70. More recently on a trip to UK, purchased 48 generic Ibuprofen from a non-pharmacy outlet – cost STG 90p. (I believe only pharmacies are licensed to sell generic here – happy to be proved wrong)
    So,Why are OTC meds are so massively different in price between here and the UK ?
    Is it our licensing laws, or who exactly is gaining?
    If the same medication doing the same job can be sold (presumably at a profit) next door at 1/7 the price to the consumer, WTF is going on in this country?
    Equally, or more importantly, if this is the case with OTC meds, what kind of markup are they justifying for prescription drugs?
    Would love Mr Reilly’s view on this while he’s looking at cost-cutting measures.

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  • Just get rid of three quarters of those with management titles in the HSE and the saving would be well in excess of the proposed amount for last year. Most of them don’t even know what they are supposed to be doing anyway. Anyone for a folder?

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  • Lies. I recently worked for the HSE. Agency staff were paid more as was the agency supplying them paid. Outside losing out on sickness entitlements etc this was the motivation for them taking these positions instead of applying for full-time positions offered outside the embargo.

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    • Tommy C 21/03/13 #

      Agency staff are not paid from the salary and wages budget. Their pay comes out of other budgets which is why every other section of the HSE suffers cuts. I could get €50 an hour if I went through an agency. Instead, my net is €11 per hour.

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    • Oh Tommy you seem to be challenging all my posts. Look the reality is these wages are paid out of our taxes. Departmentalise it all you want. They work for the HSE and there is a budget for the HSE to fund that.

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    • Tommy C 21/03/13 #

      Im not having a go at all! I used to think that agency staff were paid from the salaries budget but theyre not! Im saying the fact that theyre paid from other budgets is a disgrace Keith. The budgets theyre being taken from are budgets needed elsewhere but because of the embargo, we cant hire non agency staff who would be paid from the correctly allocated budget.

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  • Tommy C 21/03/13 #

    Agency staff in the health system are paid more than the rest of us so why is the hiring of agency staff considered a good thing?

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    • Agency staff are paid the same as regular staff since the introduction of the agency workers directive. Prior to this agency nurses wages were significantly less than employees for some time. In addition the agency’s fee must be paid. Most agency workers would love to be employed directly but this is not possible due to the embargo on recruitment. There is no benefit to the agency staff. In fact they lose out on job security, pensions, sick leave etc.

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    • Tommy these Agency Staff often have no other entitlements such as sick pay, holiday pay, pension etc… They have to pay themselves these things, not the Agency who hired them, but the worker themselves. You claim you work for €11 (several family members and friends of mine, are porters, nurses, radiographers and doctors, none of which are paid as low as you are) yet you would be surprised to see that the cost of “keeping” you is more than what the agency staff are getting.

      I think in your heart of hearts you know this otherwise you would have dropped your current role and gone down the “Agency” route yourself. Well if they’re paid almost FIVE TIMES what you’re being paid per hour why wouldn’t you???? Why not just leave your job and become an Agency worker? You know your benefits outweigh anything they are getting.

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    • Tommy C 21/03/13 #

      Dara, Im medical staff. My net is €1800 per month which is €450 per week. Im paid €12.16 per hour for a 37 hour week. Sorry, a bit more than €11!

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    • Tommy C 21/03/13 #

      I went for the job in the hospital nearest where I live so I could spend time with my kids. I choice public over private because I wanted some sort of stability rather than money but if I didnt have kids, Id go through an agency no problem!

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    • At least you have the ability to get the work Dara and your not relying on the governments measly benefits to get by.

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  • I’m not being racist …. I’m stating a fact. Let me not go into all the boys driving around in their 131′s and still manage to hold onto their cards. I was told by a doctor’s Secretary one day about a man with 200 acres of land, a brand new BMW every year and he strolls in there waving his medical card with a big smug grin on his face recently. It made her sick. I know plenty of nationalities who did jobs in this country that were too good for us Irish during the boom years and I have no problem with them. It’s the wasters who do nothing and expect everything (and get it) that I have an issue with!!!

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    • Sure Eileen there are those that have told me even on here that there are supernatural beings controlling us from the sky’s. Gods in laymans terms. What your alleging is just hearsay. If you got the evidence then report them. There’s enough Caucasian Irish nationals involved in various schemes and scams. Unfortunately some of them are responsible for administering these medical cards. Next time these customers you disprove of come into your pharmacy you should have the freedom to send them on their way whatever their physical ailment. The pharmacy profession has always been kind to its customers in this country. I remember seeing a cream for £1 a pound shop in England and the same one in my local chemist in Dublin for €7.45. I can see why your customers moan.

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  • is it any wonder o reilly ended up in stubbs

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  • Agency staff are more expensive but can’t be let go easier when not needed,

    What government don’t realise is if your going to be needed in the long term it’s cheaper to employ people directly

    Ie nurses , porters , care assistance and doctors are going to be needed into the future and as such should be employed directly

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  • The drug payment scheme is a joke €144 a month is crazy

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  • How much More proof do they need that inept over paid senior and management civil servants cannot do their job.

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  • Who said I worked in a pharmacy? Can I not be a customer and see these things going on?? Its Not like I know everyone’s names and ican tell you i’d have no problem reportingthem I did (although having read comments from previous articles here that doesn’t seem to work either) I wholeheartedly agree that the prices we pay are above and beyond what you can get them for in England or Spain also seems to sell stuff for sweet feck all compared to us too. And the Secretary I mentioned didn’t give me bloody names … she’s got to be a bit more discreet than that …. patient confidentiality and all that! But I do work and it sickens me that I have to pay taxes only to see others (alot of whom are not entitled to it …. alot not all) take advantage.

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  • Are we paying more for the same drugs than the NHS or is it that we are spending more on drugs as a percentage of overall spend ? The reason I ask is that the NHS through their NICE scheme disallow some drugs that are allowed here. NICE has been very controversial in the uk where it refused to allow spend on new better drugs.

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  • HSE workers retire getting pension based on final salary and then re-employed as agency workers. Nobody can tell how many or who they are! If it was a fiction novel you wouldn’t believe it. Forget the Frontline Alliance. The rogered 2 million private sector workers are the real patsys here.

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  • Guess we are all talk …

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  • There comes a time when it all becomes so boring

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  • The usual scapegoating sh*te being posted again!!! Ordinary public service workers or even management dont make changes to the way the Public sector operates … The elected Governments do.. and who elected them? Christ what a nation of begrudgers!

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    • The usual PS refusal to accept responsibility.

      My local hospital called me for an appointment on Friday.
      Letter typed on Monday, posted on Thursday, arrived on Friday AFTER the appointment time. This was not an isolated incident, all down to the idleness/incompetence of the “ordinary” HSE worker.

      Just because there are those at the top who should be booted out does not mean that there are those lower down who should be given their cards too.

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  • Agency staff are entitled to paid holidays including bank holidays while working for an agency, they also should not have to pay for recurrent training or any sort of up skilling as the employer (agency) has to pay this by law.
    Now getting back to the HSE/agency workers the agencies who supply the HSE with staff be it porters or nurses have to pay the staff the full time rate of pay (EU agency directive) along with their cut plus VAT on top.
    Which means that it costs more to keep an agency worker than a full time employee at a hospital, Now there was a time that companies would use an agency worker for a few weeks but what seems to have happened is companies and the HSE are using the same agency personal for a few year’s rather than hire directly.

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  • Whats new…toink.

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