deidre is right – and a labour woman telling them not to is going to do worse than f**k all.
Methinks Labour Woman is only trying to make it like she is doing something about it than actually solving any problems.
(disclaimer – not endorsing all the bad things that go with people trafficking and the problems with pimps etc- i just think this Labour Women thing is more interested in self promotion than actually solving problems for these women)

Dave, you are right. It would make more sense for this group to quote the opinion of the people who work as prostitutes and work with prostitutes in the Polish sex industry, but not give their opinion as a woman living in Ireland.

Men,holiday,drinks,sex is the perfect cocktail…is nature,you cant stop it..

And there was me thinking it was all part of the package and therefore free.
Bum deal.

they are right tho save your money for the Irish hookers and our sex trade

Mmmmmmkay… Quality Mick!

The PP is in the queue ahead of the fans ! lol

I agree with you here, Paul. They’re as reactionary as the catholic church in some ways.

Ah, but all the individual TDs seem to have asked for their names to be taken *off* “Turn Off the Red Light” site since. I have a feeling they were suckered in by all this “trafficking” hype. I might have been myself if it wasn’t for the blind luck that a very old friend happened to be over here touring regularly so I knew the truth.

Not all people are the same Sheila.

@Soccers Gossip

Didn’t say they were. ;)

Someone is unhappy in their relationship.

Good girl Aine.

Jason, they don’t waste time and resources actually *asking* sex workers any of that ould cr*p – it’s much more efficient to just make it up instead.

Suggestion Martin. If you go to Poland or Belgium or Germany or Switzerland or any other country where is legal & sort it out. FFS your as niave as these politicians. It no business of ours what prostitution goes on outside this country because theres as much of it going on here illegally & more likely with more abuse involved. You obviously dont get out much. Travel around Europe & educate yourself. People like you & this politician have very sheltered lives.

You’re right, since most Polish prostitutes are Polish, and it’s legal, so no criminality or trafficking :)

I suppose it’d be no business of ours if people were being murdered in Syria too? You call me naive yet you seem to think that prostiution in Poland, because it’s legal apparently, is some sort of safe haven for hard working women who need some extra cash to get their hair done. Nothing degrading about it at all. As for the implication that legality equals safety, how I laughed. Are you serious or what? What happens when the chap decides to slap the girl around a bit for the craic? Does the swat team fall out of the cupboard because it’s a safe, legal profession? Prostitution endangers and demeans women, legal or not. Cue comments about how I’m a) gay b) a prude c) sheltered and need to “get out more” and d) do not get the “banter”

Martin regarding your two major arguments, that prostitution endangers and demeans women, you’re right, in a sense, it does have the capacity to be a dangerous profession, but with the right approach it could be no more dangerous than any other. But in righteous and moral Ireland we decided that it’s a dirty immoral thing and made it illegal, which in economic terms doesn’t mean getting rid of it, it means handing a monopoly over to the most dangerous and uncouth criminals around. Look at Australia where sex workers have to be registered with a regulator, who has the authority to inspect and register brothels. Safe than here you have to admit?

And regarding the demeaning, so what? Women are smart and strong enough to make up their own minds, it’s not a profession I’d want to be a part of but I’m not gonna tell somebody else it’s demeaning to their gender, and with no sense of irony essentially tell them whats good for them.

I dont know if your gay im not interested but you are niave. Why dont you go to Poland & sort it out or maybe you have some answers about our own prostitution problems here which are a bigger because there is no protection here for these women they are actually treated as criminals & that doesnt happen in Poland. So in Poland if they are abused its by their pimps but here everyone including the state gets to abuse them.

I’m not telling any woman what’s good for them. I’m not going to go down to Leeson street and moralise to some woman who’s out there selling herself. You’re confusing the two completely different objections to prostitution. One is the conservative, religous, sex is bad, prostitution is hence immoral argument. That is not me. The second objection, and in my opinion the much more valid one is that what sort of a society do we have if women are forced (maybe not explicitly but economically) to have to suffer such work? The majority of women operating in prostitution are being either coerced into doing it or, because of desperate economic circumstances, have no choice but to go down that road.

That’s without even examining what sort of person visits prostitutes. I’m sure plenty of men with low self esteem or confidence do it because they see no other option for attaining sex. I’d sympathise with people like that, it’s sad but I can partly understand why they’d do it, especially if the naively think these women are all pretty women types. But most men that visit prostitutes in my opinion know full well that this women is being coerced in some way. They know the women has no interest in them beyond the economic and yet they still want to have sex with her. They reduce the women to an object of sexual gratification. So please don’t dismiss my objections as conservative moralising. I’m a socialist and feminist and if we had an equal society, without the economic pressures of our own, I really don’t believe many would choose (and obviously not be coerced) into that line of work.

@Michael, one minute ago you were saying aint it fantastic it’s legal in Poland. Now in poland the women “only” get abused by their pimps. I don’t support criminalising prostitution. I’m not even sure where you picked that up from what I’ve said. I’m just saying that it’s a messed up society where people think it’s a bit of craic to visit a hooker.

So as your a feminist & I guessed that bit before you said. Prostitution is not exclusively for women. I myself was shocked to learn how many men & transgender worked here in Ireland. It may be demeaning to all these people & maybe they are vurnerable people but I dont think that the Irish have the knowledge of this subject to go around telling other European states where its legal & controlled how to have a moral position on prostitution. Ireland & the Irish dont have the moral standing Im afraid.

Martin niave & you cant read. Please quote were I said fantastic?p

So your objection is to the commercialisation of sex?

Well then if you consider yourself a feminist(a bad word in my books but anyways) why are you so quick to chastise men who are lonely and seeking some sort of sexual embrace, even if it’s fake, the emotion isn’t there and she’s only doing it for the money, yet you’re fully on board with the idea that if a woman enters prostitution it’s because she’s forced to, because of economic circumstances, and it’s not even her choice. Men and women alike have struggled through tough times worldwide without resorting to prostitution, and it’s patronising that you expect so little drive and ambition from women, but call on men to just suck it up, be the bigger person and not fuel thius business.

Yes Brendan, I am saying it’s the men’s responsibility. My argument is that the women are trapped. The men have the choice. That is one of the central feminist criticisms of prostitution. It’s just like rape, women shouldn’t take steps to avoid rape, men should just not do it.

As for the comments on it not being exclusively women in prostitution. Of course there are men and transgender people working in the industry and they’re being exploited in exactly the same way. I’d venture that the proportion of women is much higher though. Anyway, goodnight!

Michael when you say naive what exactly do you mean? I’ve been to many places across Europe and do you know what all the worst places i seen had in common? They where all centred around red-light areas. I think you’re the one that’s a bit naive to think that is a grand old profession.

Ah, just like all central feminist criticisms, that everything is the men’s fault and women are helpless victims. Prositution is a choice, perhaps not most people’s first choice, but no one is forced into it any more than they’re forced into any other job, I refuse to accept these women would starve if they weren’t prostitutes, its not as if poor countries are full of female hookers and men dying of hunger. Goodnight to you too.

@ I Love Lamp @ Martin : I live in a red light district. I do not buy sex. I do say hello and sometimes chat some normal rubbish with the prostitutes because I see the same girls every evening when I go to my local kiosk to buy milk or cigarettes, and they see me. They are my neighbours. They are not forced into prostitution, much of them are college students funding their studies. It may be different in the non-regulated red light districts, but here is is business and the girls are doing business, like any worker in any sector. Men are pigs, but the girls know this and they take safety measures against this. Overall the girls profit from prostitution more than their customers.

You both talk a lot on this forum but you both know very little about the subjects you talk about.

Klaus, you might be a pig but speak for yourself

Martin, you just hate men, and it shines through in what you’re saying. “Men should not do it” Why? Why is it ok to give pleasure for sex but not money? Why is it ok to massage people for money but not to have sex with them? And do you think no women ever pay for sex? If so, you really are naive

Brendan, I agree with most of your points but when you said “why are you so quick to chastise men who are lonely and seeking some sort of sexual embrace, even if it’s fake, the emotion isn’t there and she’s only doing it for the money” I think it’s worth bearing in mind that the word “fake” is a bit subjective. If you have a one-night stand and the other person is only doing it for pleasure, is that fake? In fact, it doesn’t even have to be a one-night stand. Plenty of people have faked emotions to get sex, which is surely far more abusive than an honest transaction between consenting adults

@ Chuck Regardiong the notion of fake, I think you’re right, all the more reason to relax the stigma, if people are willing to have sex purely for their own pleasure, or because their on the rebound, or to make their ex jealous, then surely commercial sex isn’t that big a deal.

@ Chuck : I apologise. Men are pigs ( Männer sind Schweine ) is a normal phrase in German and the title of a famous punk song, and my English language friends tell me that “pig” is stronger in English, in German not so. The insulting word for police in German is not “pig”, it is “bull”. “Pig” is more like a sometimes friendly dog, mostly loyal and with a short temper, but easy to control. It would be good to know that this is the reason for your message, and not anti-German feeling.

Daniel Kelly Doran.
I know they wouldn’t do that.
Because the nicest things in life are free.
Then why pay for it?

Yes, because an assumption is proof in itself of it’s own truth

Absolutely

The sum total of the ubiquitous Rew Power-Branfield’s juvenile and churlish trolling herein can (without much effort) be reduced to the following three polemical points: consent issue should have no right nor standing in court; Two – This industry should banned in all forms since the possibility of embarassment or lack of objectivity may cause her to go into another aggressive feminist snit; and Three – the old playground rejoinder, “Sheet at the police station!!!!” Rew Power-Branfield’s first proclamation has been proven patently false in light of our court having taken retrospective cases. Her second point is legally irrelevant and moot since 58% now want the laws against prostitution to be abolished:

http://scripts.ireland.com/polls/head2head/index.cfm?fuseaction=yesnopoll&pollid=8193&subsiteid=352

And her final point? Rew has generalized an industry as ”abusive and exploitative” with no truthful basis whatsoever. In other words, the people who CHOOSE out of their own FREE WILL to work in the industry are supposedly being ”forced” in the eyes of a right-wing feminist who adores the gospel teachings. No existing court (civil or criminal) would give that argument any legal consideration. In fact, any playground monitor would give our boorish little Branfield a well deserved slapdown on that one.