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Dublin: 5 °C Friday 24 May, 2013

Labour TDs meet with Burton in last-ditch bid to stop child benefit cuts

Two Dublin TDs want to stop the government from cutting child benefit – but if they can’t, will they vote against the Budget?

Image: Niall Carson/PA Wire

Updated 7.50pm

TWO LABOUR TDs have met with a senior advisor of Minister for Social Protection Joan Burton in a last-ditch attempt to avert the planned cuts to child benefit.

The two Dublin TDs, Eamonn Maloney and Michael Conaghan, used the meeting to voice major concerns  about government plans which will see  child benefit cut by €10 a month for the first two children, €18 for the third and €20 for the fourth child.

The cuts to the monthly payment were the only item on the agenda at this evening’s meeting.

Both TDs denied any suggestion that they would vote against the government on the cut but told TheJournal.ie that they had concerns about the impact of the measure on poor people.

“The meeting was cordial,” said Eamonn Maloney, TD for Dublin South West. He said that the meeting had discussed how the child benefit cut would impact “those on welfare and those on low pay… how it would impinge on poorer people”.

The Dáil is due to vote on the cut to child benefit cut on Tuesday and Wednesday of next week when TDs will be asked to approve the Social Welfare Bill containing all the measures outlined in Budget 2013.

A number of Labour TDs are believed to be unhappy with the adverse effect of the child benefit cut on working-class families with three or more children who rely on the monthly payment.

Labour party chairman and Galway East TD Colm Keaveney has signalled his unhappiness with the Budget on Twitter and indicated that he too may seek changes to be made before voting on the social welfare elements next week.

Last night he tweeted that the Budget vote held on Wednesday night was only a vote on “elements [of the Budget] that I can live with”.

“Next week is a different story,” he tweeted.

Dublin West TD Patrick Nulty, who voted against the government on the Budget last year,  called on Labour TDs to join him and other rebels in voting against the Budget 2013 legislation. He indicated that Roisin Shortall and Tommy Broughan – who are both outside the parliamentary Labour party – are likely to vote against the Social Welfare Bill when it is put before the Dail next week.

Labour said that any meeting between the Department and the two TDs would be  ”entirely a routine matter” and rejected the suggestion that the TDs wanted to pressure Labour to roll back on child benefits.

Labour also dismissed as “conjecture” the possibility of the two TDs voting against the government and losing the party whip.

Colm Keaveney 1

Colm Keaveney 2

FLASHBACK: Eamon Gilmore says Labour won’t cut child benefit >

Budget 2013: Here’s what will affect the children >

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Comments (98 Comments)

  • They have a vote, let them use it.

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  • I think these rebel TDs should try and split into a proper labour party and encourage others to join them.

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  • burst dam starts with a trickle…

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  • Is it just me but where is Enda for the last 24hrs I haven’t heard a whisper from him anywhere. Have his handlers got him locked up somewhere?

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    • Eh correction Sean, child benefit has been around for a very long time, my parents got it for us in the 70′s and 80′s. You may not think of this but without children there will be no work force for the future, no one to pay for you in your old age…. And I am quite sure your parents didn’t turn down the Children’s allowance when you were younger.

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    • Eh Jane it wasn’t dished out to everyone. My parents never got it for me. I am very aware that children are the future, but unlimited gifts/benefits which are apparently now “entitlements” for everyone using borrowed money, which must be paid back with interest is a disastrous national policy. It got FF repeatedly voted though, but now it’s payback time.
      You are a fool and a slave in this country, if you work from what I can see. Free dole, rent, travel, Tv license, dog license, heating allowance, clothing allowance, health care, university fees and books – why would you ever bother working? Watch the flight of the professionals – who’ll look after us then in our old age when they have had enough?

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    • Sean. If you think that is is easy here then you should go to see the rest of Europe, the countries bailing us out that provide fully tax deductible child care costs or free care, 80% of previous wage dole, hookers for prisoners in some countries. Most of your Mortgage payment as tax deductible.

      If you think that we should act in line with the countries that are bailing us out then you are going to get some in the future. Just imagine an economy that is run for growth rather than just shoveling money in to the pockets of a very select and connected few.

      In most cases that Child care money goes in to the local economy straight away, supporting jobs and businesses and the domestic economy. The domestic SME economy is 95% of companies and about 75% of jobs. The Govt. gets it back soon enough for different sources.

      Your economics Sean is best left to the Libertarian handbook. It has no relevance to Irish or European economics.

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    • Richard – The socialist model of near unlimited benefit you suggest in Europe just does not exist – it is heavily policed and monitored.Your 80% dole eg in France is for a very short duration, you don’t take a job offer in 6 months you are down to 40% and then eventually none. The social welfare in Ireland is WAY ahead of the UK. I see it every day people coming over from the UK signing up for completely fraudulent disability certs for life while taking all the grants they can get.

      I certainly do agree the treasonous crime of recapitalising private banks with our money and future debt repayments – they are not our debts to repay. What I am saying is that despite the bank recapitalisation scheme debt – we as a nation are still spending WAY over what we take in as a nation.

      Your model is not sustainable. My economics is more like Germany than Italy Richard – balance the nations books. It is very much relevant when you see what is coming down the line as a result of the politicians throwing money at everyone for very short term gain.

      BTW you debate in a very cordial manner – keep it up. Too often it becomes aggressive and ego based.

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    • Also Richard – regarding the money going straight back into the economy, that depends on what is bought. I met a single mother bringing her 2 children on a 3 week holiday to the Canary Islands recently, not much of that child support staying in Ireland. Shopping on the internet. Buying products online. Buying food in Tesco, subscribing to Sky – the most of this money leaves the country. A bit off topic I know but I had to respond.

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  • There’s only two sure labour told everyone there would be no cuts to child benefit ?

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  • It’s about time someone went up against them!! We need more people in that house to actually consider the people in this sham of a country!!!

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    • Nonsense (;0). We should focus less on the economy and more on the issue of clothes in the Dáil. I know that when i’m getting up to work every day that it is not my business that worries me but whether the Govt. and the Ceann Comhairle will get people to wear 2000 euro suits at taxpayers expense like they do.

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  • Well hello Mary-Lou, goodbye Joan.

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  • Good old democratic left make up the core of labour these days a slightly left wing party set up by Proinsias De Rossa after leaving the workers party.

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  • The Labour party is possibly going to be decimated at the next election.
    I don’t think they have any idea just how bad things might be for them.

    Serve the sods right!

    If I see my Labour TD on the streets on my home town in Louth – gawd help him!

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  • It is all for show.

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  • I believe that it’s vital to the credibility of our democracy that there is a backbench rebellion by Labour TDs against the measures announced yesterday. In fairness it has happened in the recent past – the names Nulty,Penrose & Broughan spring to mind. Such a rebellion would restore a degree of credibility to a severely compromised party.

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    • Rubbish. You’re either in Government or the opposition. Ireland needs a coherent united Government speaking with one voice. Labour elected their leaders to represent them and promote their values at the cabinet table. They should live with their decision and work to effect change from within. This is why the left will never be trusted to govern in Ireland. The first thing they do when they get a sniff of power is start fighting amongst themselves- this at a time when the country’s future is at stake. The Socialist party have split too. The ULA is ridiculously divided. And they try to tell us they can run a country when they can’t organise themselves????

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    • Vincent forgive but are you trying to suggest is a party of the left?especially when all their actions run contary to socialism.But don’t worry they won’t bail without a pension and then FF will change sides and FG will have another “whipping boy” to asborb all the flak.

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    • Sorry Vincent words missing “forgive me” and “suggest Lab”.

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    • Hi Norman. Policies are all well & good- but the people of Ireland deigned that Fine Gael would be the biggest party by a considerable margin. They’ve twice the seats of Labour. Some very unrealistic expectations from some people on here as to how Labour were going to direct policy. They’re the junior party in a coalition. Add to that, the fact that the country is beyond broke and their room for manoeuvre is pretty slim.

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    • Vincent i agree FG is the biggest party only because people couldn’t stomach voting for FF again and not prepared to vote SF in big numbers.But lets not forget both parties threw out the mandate they got when their backsides landed on those Dail seats.I know you don’t need me to remind you of all the promises made by both parties.Easily available online anyway.

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    • M Bowe 06/12/12 #

      Is that the same values that labour promised the electorate in last election and have reneged on everyone of them to date. It’s the party leaders who have let their supporters down, not the other way around.

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  • Labour have sold out,abandoned their core support.Whatever happens at the next GE us their iwn fault.The idiots can’t see that they are being used by FG the same way FF used the Greens.

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  • gerry 06/12/12 #

    If enough TD’s were against it and the numbers threatened the governments majority of the house would the parties (Fg and Lab) risk removing the whip if those people voted against it thus essentially risking their majority in the house? Could enough of their numbers essentially force their hand?

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  • John 06/12/12 #

    Its hard to believe that the grave robber in the photo is in the news once again.

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  • So if Burton and the government don’t bow to their request will the resign the whip straight away? If their not going to vote with the government next Tuesday & Wednesday they should state it clearly if the meeting does not resolve their problem and quit.

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  • There not doing it on principle. Its all grandstanding. They will try anything to avoid been voted out at next election. #labourareparasites

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  • I would say it’s a safe bet that they are all talk but no action. When it comes to the crunch, they’ll most likely toe the party line.

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  • Labour TDs support FG policy’s we know that since the Roisin Shortfall resignation.

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  • Labour are at this stage just a less corrupt version of FF, no interest in the good of the people or the country. Power, Power, Power. Being a 1/4 as off as FF just means that you are just 110% unacceptable in politics.

    Lab. TD’s have to ask themselves do they want to be lumped in with the likes of Ahern and Cowen or FF or will they stand with the Irish people.

    cause the people will tear your party apart out like we did the last shower of crooks.

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  • Really wish the Labour TDs would stop all this hammed-up faux-empathy. They’ll vote for it in the end.

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    • Agreed.

      Same thing happened with the X Case bill, loads of Labour saying they agree with legislating immediately but when it came to crunch time on Clare Daly’s emergency legislation for X they strangely voted no. Maybe their collective fingers slipped.

      Not a backbone among them.

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    • #Paul Anthony Ward- I really wish you would apologise on behalf of your party, whose mismanagement of the Irish economy has necessitated these and every other cut and handed our sovereignty to Berlin. Fianna Failers have some nerve throwing stones at other parties.

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    • #Niall- yes shame on Labour for acting responsibly and allowing a whole month to give an incredibly important piece of legislation the consideration and consultation it deserves.

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    • Paul. If you are a FF’er then you do have quiet a brass neck to suggest that any other party is off, especially via faux empathy. FF have given us faux empathy, faux accounts, faux justice systems, faux tribunals, faux follow on from tribunals.

      Small bit of advice son, work hard and honest, treat people with respect, look after your family, be proud of your country. In other words leave or stop supporting FF, be the opposite of everything they are.

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    • Vincent how the cuts are implemented is in the Irish governments “gift” Troika is only interested in the bottom line. Labour ministers agreed to remove the prsi allowance from those just above the minimum wage. No one else, they agreed with FG and are doing that no point blaming FF for the current governments choices. BTW I am not a FF supporter.

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    • #Kerry- I’m blaming Fianna Fáil for the fact that these cuts are needed. I agree that FG and Labour have to take responsibility for where the cuts happen. The electorate equally needs to understand that such is the extent of FF’s legacy and the depth of our debt and deficit, it’s going to be painful no matter what. The nation needs to suck it up. I’ve no problem with the PRSI change or the Household Charge. The money has to come from somewhere. I’m annoyed at the reduction in the carers allowance- there has to be somewhere better than that to find the money. Point is- the left needs to cop on a bit and recognise there is a limit to which Labour can insulate them from the cuts. I’m stunned at how all the venom is being directed at Labour on here. And I’m an FG voter!

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    • Vincent you need to review FG and Labours speeches after every budget produced by FF and who ever was in coalition with them. Speaking as a now ex FG voter I see no difference between FF and FG. Also the nation doesn’t need to suck it up. If we had a government with any IQ we would not be sucking up bank mistakes and developers problems. Sadly we are saddled with Kenny I don’t want a defaulter stamp on my forehead. No leadership or back bone. The younger FG were correct to try and dump him before the election sadly the likes of stroke Reilly and Philpot Hogan proved to strong and they get the rewards. Same old same old regardless of the party.

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    • #Kerry- oh I know. It was those nasty bankers and developers. It wasn’t that the country as a whole went nuts, drunk in credit or anything. And there’s a miracle / magic wand solution that just requires Enda Kenny to show some balls. PLEASE! The macro-economic policies being pursued are the exact same as those in other indebted EU countries. We’re part of a pan-European austerity strategy- so of course it looks, feels and is the same approach as FF. Our Government since the bailout hasn’t the power to go for a plan B. Did they say that before the election? No. Could they have and not been obliterated? No. Whole big dose of realism required by a whole lot of people in here.

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  • the beginning of the end.

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  • It would seem fairer to have means tested it and had a two tier level so anyone under a household income of 50k isn’t affected and above is.

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    • Y so that those of us who pay tax can be regarded to well of to get it ….it’s the only thing we get for all the tax we pay towards c.b back to school…free transport…ect for other peoples children ..not very fair

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    • life isnt fair and when you say it out loud you make yourself a victim

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    • Ha a victim funny when you say something honest you a victim when every one else is struggling but to be honest if rather the 10 euro from cb was given to the elderly and like the majority of people I’ll look after my own family look forward to x mass and if that’s a victim IM happy …this crap gov. Owes me nothing in reality

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  • Labour should be ashamed , they have left their party and beliefs down . protect the proud working man ? they will be joining the greens in the ditch pretty soon I hope.

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  • The whimps in the LP/OSF/WP/SFWP/OSFIRA. do not have the ball$ to stand up and be counted, they never had no matter what umbrella they stood under. Their demise is imminent, they have shown the people they have no backbone.

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  • A TD to make a stand, don’t make me laugh. They will hoff and puff for a day or two let the people who voted for them say he a great bit of stuff but at the end of the day they will not have the balls to go through with anything.

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  • Good bye labour. Good riddance.

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  • Black heart burton has signed the death warrant and regardless of it happening now or at the next election this government are finished.

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  • Vincent Dolan, I wish you a long and healthy life. I hope you keep posting your opinions and supporting FG, It will be a great eye-opener to people considering a party to join! Thanks, from all of us!lol

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  • Just a game they are playing, it will be dropped at the last min, just to make Labour look good and help keep the hounds off their backs.

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  • I don’t think the current system of child benefit is fair or sustainable but neither is a blanket cut in income fair. Regardless of what source it’s deducted from, reducing any income by a specific amount, rather than for example, means testing, proportionately places the bigger burden on lower income families. No matter what way you look at it that’s unfair. This budget has taken a bigger percentage of income from poorer people and left higher income households and Corporations away without making a fair contribution.

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  • Is Keaveney speaking for grassroots Labour voters? Or, as Labour party chairman, is he just being completely irresponsible?

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  • mike 06/12/12 #

    I think it’s a fair cut. I worked out that the Dole parasite traveller family in our estate, with 13 kids and never did a taxable days work in their lives and constantly milk the welfare system dry, are going to loose about 2616 euro a year by this cut.

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  • She can hardly u-turn but she should up the parents social payments by 2 euro per week per child.

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  • Why am I paying for everyone else’s children? If you can’t afford them don’t have them. What’s is worse are cases where people are creating children as a source of income. There was no child benefit (not necessarily to be spent on children) before Bertie threw it at everyone to buy votes using some tax of workers, but mostly paid for with borrowed money.

    We are selling off our state assets to pay for the likes of child allowance which we cannot afford. The entitlement train rolls on…

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  • What about students losing BTEA which makes differance to heading to college.

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  • “In Italy the money is paid to employers to pass on but can be reduced if workers are absent.” id hope its calculated to correct absent days.

    Here’s a handy little guide for those planning to come to Ireland and start a family:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/8041774/Child-benefit-how-it-compares-across-the-world.html

    bet you knew this already though, didn’t you? course you did, very surprised with Slovakias rate, must be a mistake

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  • You mean votes

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  • Elbbit 06/12/12 #

    Sorry but there shoyld be no benefits handed out for children. If you cant afford them…well you know the rest. Yes its harsh but everyone is responsible for themselves, you cant expect people to pay yax to support someones children

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    • if you grew up in ireland it was paid for you when you were a child…

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    • Whatabout children born to parents during the height of the “Celtic” tiger,both with good jobs now on the dole can’t make ends meet.Any thoughts as to what they should do?

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    • Spot the person with no children!

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    • Elbbit. Where else is that done, in what make up world does that not happen. If you go to Germany or Holland, across most of Europe. Childcare is tax deductible, that would be worth about 500 a week to a massive amount of people in Dublin and a hundred or 2 to the rest of the country in child care costs.

      I’m sure your daddy and mammy refused the child benefit, refused the state supplement to private school if you went. They did like ^^&*(.

      Elbbit. Sit down, study some economics and grow up.

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    • For such an economic expert Richard you fail to see the really basic concept that tax credits are very different than the free money for children that we operate. It provides workers support providing you have contributed to society – ie are working.

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    • I’m no expert, no more than you are. If you aren’t working there, you get a lot more than here, I can guarantee that. I’ve worked in a lot of Europe and have seen it, read about it. People are so worried here that their neighbour here might get a penny more than them that they couldn’t care about the crooks at the top stealing billions by bribing Ministers or asking favours from their golf buddy Taoiseach.

      It will get harder and harder here because the dice is loaded to those who pay/bribe the piper and most people couldn’t care less as long as they are standing on a dung heap slighter higher than their neighbours.

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    • The idea that someone not getting free child care, if they are not working would be so unimaginable to most Europeans that they could not understand someone wondering about it.

      People here think they get lots in comparison but they really get sweet f all. They just have such low expectations, know their place, never seen any better.

      Reply

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