I think the whole public/civil service is getting a bit ridiculous and damaging on both sides at this stage. There seems to be some sweeping generalisations that public/civil servants don’t do anything and are overpaid for what they do, that’s not really the whole thing though. There’s definitely an uneven pay level between some similar jobs but it goes both ways, there’s definitely a few jobs in the public service that are lower paid than private sector, its quiet probable though that the unevenness is more on the public/civil service side, I know that where I work it’s pretty even (or at least was). I think the average wage thing that gets quoted is a bit ridiculous because last time I heard it I was getting paid twice what I am.

As for people doing nothing, well yeah I mean it’s like anywhere some people do Trojan work others don’t. I’ve had really bad customer service experiences with certain mobile phone providers, cable providers etc. and a lot of other places but I’m not going around saying that the whole private sector isn’t up to scratch. I just think everyone has good and bad experiences and that happens with the public services as well but it doesn’t mean that people aren’t working hard. I know people that come in early, barely take a break over the course of the day and leave late without any extra pay or time in lieu so that they get the job done, I think that’s brilliant because they’re really not doing it out of any notion of receiving a reward for it but because they fell they should provide the service. In fact I’ve seen people do some amazing stuff for the benefit of patients and customers. To say everyone in the public service is deserving of pay cuts and calling services inadequate doesn’t take account of these people. Most of the people I know don’t want to strike either, a lot certainly don’t want a pay cut, they’re struggling as well but they certainly don’t want to be out stopping services. I also know that from a lot of simple little suggestions and a lot of hard work an amount of people have saved a lot of money in most cases that was well over their wage level.

There’s only so far that you can get with cuts either. Sure on paper reducing numbers while maintaining services looks brilliant but I don’t think it’ll be seen in improvement in delivery of services. Maybe the most important reform would be a cultural reform but that’s a whole can of worms I’m not even touching at the minute I’m just interested to see what will come of it. To really improve the public/civil service you need to invest in how services are delivered, infrastructure, e-government etc. but the money’s not there and at this stage it would be much better invested getting the country up and running. Point is cuts won’t improve the public/civil service it’ll just make it cheaper, the immediate benefit is obvious but long term that isn’t the way forward, we’re running services with less people but are we running them any better or just the same with less?

As for the whole union thing, well Im certain there’s a lot of people horrified at a few things that have been said in the papers the last few days, that whole PSEU motion that people wanted bank time back because they were “used to leaving a bit early” makes me want to bounce my head off a wall (or somebody else’s) there’s a bad enough perception without that kind of thinking.

As for hardship there’s plenty people that worked in the public services that were on the dole at some point and I lived off about €70 when I was putting myself through college and that was for everything rent etc.

Look at the end of this essay my point is that the whole generalising thing isn’t good enough, it doesn’t take account of a lot of things that actually go on, the same way that elements of the public/civil service refusing to move with the times isn’t good enough either.

You are right david. And its the ones on 100k who are makin cuts in the healthservice as in croom hospital instead of cutting the numbers of top heavy management. Let them live on 25k for a year & see how they get on.

As some who is on social welfare after having to give up job to take care of a very sick son (cancer) and now can’t get a job I feel it harsh to say reduce social welfare in general. But do agree there are a lot of welfare cheats out there.
We need public and civil servants and having ” been thru the system ” Our health care is in a mess. I personally think there is a lot of dead weight middle management in civil and public servant sector that would not be tolerated in private sector as regards performance. So our new government if they have what it takes should introduce a system where your job not for life but dependent on performance.

In saying that I know people who work in public and civil sector whom find themselves working longer hours just to get a now reduce pay cheque and struggling. Not fair on them.

This country needs a huge shake up but it seems even having elected a “new” government, it’s the same old thing.

Going out on strike will only work if we all get out there and say reduce fuel tax and make our new government take the stand they promised.

Ok rant over now.

I agree with them. It’s not fair that the low paid get screwed and the high paid civil servants are still getting bonus’s and 40 days holidays a year. Without the lower grades the public service wouldn’t function.

Think its totally unfair that someone on 25k in civil service has had wages reduced by around 14% while someone on 100k was reduced by 5% and gets a bonus!! The lower grades are being screwed!! I’d strike. Treat them fairly and you might get somewhere.

for some reason that seem to believe they are somehow exempt from the realities of the current economic situation and what needs to happen.
Whilst public and civil service is not directly comparable to the private sector the simple fact is that if they as employees do not ensure cost reductions to the extent required there will have to be cuts in wages or numbers, its really that simple if somewhat brutal.

I applied for an was offered a position as Engineer with one of the health boards some years back. The position paid 2/3 [two thirds ] of the lowest rate that I was offered in the private sector at the same time. I also got a company car in the position that I took in the private sector.Some price to pay for security.All the comment here about civil servants being overpaid is just guff.While waiting for some forms in a social welfare office lately I took note that 8 out of 20 of the chaps who dived in and out rapidly were driving crewcab jeeps.Nice.

Lets leave low earners alone. We know the problem is at the upper income levels in the public service, so lets focus the effort there. ANYONE on less than 35k needs to be left alone regardless of public or private sector.

You can tell from the above photo that Mr.Horan has had a bad experience with cuts, hair cuts.

So before you joined that Dole que Diarmaid you worked in the Private Sector I take it and at the height of the boom you where making probably a very decent wage way above the Public Sector as the Public Sector wages don’t fly up at anywhere near the rate of the Private Sector. So Diarmaid, with the greatest of respect, stop being bitter.

David the reality is they dont know and will never know how it is to have to survive on 180 a week and being forced to do so. The country is on it’s knees and I never said I don’t think the top guys should get cuts, I am merely saying threatening the Irish citizen with withdrawing services is just wrong. If you’re not happy with your pay, leave your job, stop threatening the Irish people who have suffered enough with withdrawing a shoddy service of which they overpay for already, it’s just bully boy stuff, any clown who goes on strike in the current mess we find ourselves in should be handed their p45, but be glad that’s something no civil servant will EVER have to worry about.

Time to issue a few P45s to these wasters.

14% is not hardship trust me especially when 7% of that is of a very generous pension. This is the insulated reality rhetoric that frustrates me and alot of other Irish citizens

@Jude ah I see the condescending patronising usual ole waffle brigade are out in force. Well with an unemployed family member, 2 godsons I never see cause my sister is made emigrate and having stood in a dole queue myself last year I think that qualifies me better than some muppet moaning about a 14% cut in generous pay, so I would certainly be more qualified than these moaning gobshites to answer your stupid question. But the difference is private sector don’t moan and try bring the already crippled country to a halt, they grow up, adapt and roll with the punches. Call me what you want, but that’s the reality.

Ah it’s great to see that the unions and civil servants can still afford the crack they are obviously smoking, coming out with fairyland notions like the above.

Out with the unions and down with the PS wages! Roll on September!

Hypocrite ??? When did I say public service workers were millionaires???

If these guys are all so skint etc, how come they all can still afford to pay their union fees, thought they were the “working poor” struggling with esb and the like

Drives me insane!!! These muppets are still in thier own fantasy land!!!!!!!

@Jude whilst you refuse to answer my qs you come on and lecture us about how you think the world works. Get your head outta your arse. You are the typical ignoramus blinkered civil servant that can’t or refuses to relate to the hurt that goes on in the real world.