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Dublin: 12 °C Friday 24 May, 2013

Vegan society attacks Mattie McGrath for ‘cannibalism’ comments

The independent Tipp TD is in the firing line after asking whether animal rights wanted meat-eaters to become cannibals.

"Are we supposed to become cannibals and eat each other? I am not trying to be funny here."
Image: Leon Farrell/Photocall Ireland

INDEPENDENT TD Mattie McGrath has found himself in the firing line from a society advocating veganism, after asking in a Dáil debate if animal rights activists wanted meat-eaters to become cannibals.

Vegan Ireland has taken issue with McGrath’s comments during a debate on the Wildlife Amendment Bill last week, a relatively low-profile piece of legislation which allowed some licensed gun holders to be considered the holders of a valid hunting licence.

During the debate, McGrath took issue with some animal rights groups, saying he was “sick, sore and tired” of receiving abuse emails from them, and accusing some of sticking broken bottles and glasses into the ground before a recent hare coursing event at Clonmel.

On that occasion they had done more harm than good, McGrath suggested, because the shards of glass could cause harm to the animals taking part.

“These people are sick. I would not like to say they are deranged, but they are definitely very sick,” he said, later claiming that some activists wanted to ban the live exports of cattle, and adding:

Are we supposed to become cannibals and eat each other? I am not trying to be funny here.

This evening Vegan Ireland spokesman Roger Yates said McGrath was “in danger of sounding completely out of touch”.

“He studied horticulture in Kildalton College so it is certain that he knows a good deal about the production of vegetables and fruit. What seems uncertain is whether he’s heard of vegans or vegetarians, the former of which eat a wholly plant-based diet,” Yates said.

The group have invited McGrath to “experience and enjoy vegan cuisine at our expense” so that they could prove that a person need not become a cannibal if they cannot eat fish or kill animals.

“However, as a general matter, the main reason for anyone to consider veganism is that it is the right thing to do ethically with regard to how we use and exploit other animals,” Yates added.

Watch: PETA under fire over controversial vegan ad

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Comments (101 Comments)

  • Eating meat is not essential in this part of the World. But there are some countries where the soil cannot be tilled, where crops cannot be sustainably grown, and where eating meat and drinking milk are the only sustainable forms of nourishment. Simplistic arguments do nobody any favours.

    Reply
    • Pig Boy 23/07/12 #

      We consume far too much meat in the Western World ,we should eat less meat but good quality meat

      Reply
    • An if nothing grows in these parts of the world what keeps the animal alive??

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    • “where crops cannot be sustainably grown” Brendan, not nothing, crops. Grass grows practically everywhere, even in the Arctic. This is what is used to feed animals.

      Reply
    • Cornelius, this IS one of those countries. We grow grass better than anyone else. Perennial grass builds soils and sequesters carbon. A perennial pasture can absorb five times as much rain as a plowed field, which is protection against flooding. Holistic grazing can sequester as much carbon as is released on the same land just by plowing – and that doesn’t address the matter of soil destruction, land degradation, etc, that is involved in grain growing. Whatever people choose to eat is their business, but if we want to benefit the environment we would do better to stop growing grains for people or animals. Our environment would be the poorer if we rob it of the animals that rebuild its soil, and bury its carbon.

      PS – NO, the carbon footprint of cows is not due to their methane burps. They are only tiny compared to the calculations derived from the grains cows are presumed to eat – but have no business eating. Take away grain feeding (with all its attendant destruction of soil, biodiversity and water quality) and keep the animals on the land – this will reduce our carbon footprint to a tiny net number, plus increase biodiversity, enrich our store of soil, strengthen our wetland drainage and give us food security.

      Reply
    • David 24/07/12 #

      Listen to Auntie Dote……She knows what she’s talking about on this topic.

      Reply
    • Its refreshing to have someone like Auntie Dote come on with some useful information instead of the usual tripe spewed by some on here. Cheers Auntie :)

      Reply
    • Auntie Dote,
      I was attempting to explain the complexity of the situation. As a farmer with herd no. and livestock, this is a serious issue for me personally as well as for Ireland in general, and the World.
      There are lands here in Ireland, typically what we might call marginal lands, where only two options are realistic, those being grass for livestock, or forestry.
      There are other lands where crops can be grown. If we were to harness our crop-suitable lands to grow only crops, we could produce more mouth-ready calories than by using these same lands as currently used.
      If however, this just displaced beef or other meat production to other parts of the World, where it can be produced less sustainably, then that is a net loss, planet-wise, and so pointless.
      Looking at the big picture though, if the entire World moved to a western-type, or what is called “affluent diet”, from what in many parts of the World is a mainly “vegetarian diet”, we would need to use massive amounts of extra land (presumably displacing even more forests), and we would use far greater amounts of fertiliser, and fossil fuel energy, in such a food production system.
      As well as being a farmer, I have the good fortune to be able to research this issue on an ongoing basis for a lecture series I present each year at University of Limerick, and while what is known changes as time passes, it is indisputable that an “affluent diet” for all is not a reality within the constraints of the planet we live on.
      So, while I love my meat, to produce and to eat, I need to accept that in the overall sense, a little bit of restraint in how much of it I eat is good for the planet, and leaves a little more meat for those who, at the moment, get very little of it in their diets.
      Lastly, according to UN figures, accepted by Irish authorities, your information on the effect of methane production by cattle and cows towards greenhouse gas emissions is incorrect. The warming effect due to the methane produced is not tiny compared with the amount of CO2 from the grains that they eat. To me this is a somewhat side issue, as my comments were never addressing greenhouse gases. Nonetheless, it would be better to get the figures right.

      Reply
  • I love me steak dinners. :D

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  • “The main reason for anyone to consider veganism is that it is the right thing to do ethically…”

    Pfffh, I’ll ethically eat whatever animals I like thank you very much.

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    • Good one!

      Hold on while I ethically rape your sister and mother, murder your dog, and eat your best friend.

      Hey back off man, let me do my thing and you do your thing. You people who think that I can’t just rape your mother are lunatics, worse than religious fundamentalists. Who’s going to provide sex for the increasing population???

      Reply
  • If we weren’t supposed to eat animals then why are they made out of meat?!

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  • Do vegans look down on vegetarians for eating eggs and the like?

    A bit like The Socialist Party looking down on Labour for not being real lefties?

    Reply
    • There’s loads of vegans out there who don’t look down or care about what other people do. They choose to do it cause when done right it is far far healthier and reduces the risk of heart disease and cancer.

      Then there’s the weird fundamental ones who won’t stop annoying everyone else and who give normal vegans a bad name.

      Reply
    • like westerners look down on Koreans and Chinese for eating dog and Japanese for whale and dolphin ? yes sometimes vegans discuss the ethics of egg and dairy consumption with vegetarians but it isnt looking down so much as wanting to convince others to join a practice we consider to benefit the lives of billions of animals.

      Reply
  • people are greedy, the human race do not give a damn, thats a fact, they not bothered what baby gets taken away from It’s mother as in a newly born calf, so we can drink its milk, they’re not bothered that any other animal had a right or not, they’re not bothered that they are caged or killed at a very young age, raped prodded castrated , tails docked, in fact us humans dont understand empathy for others, , we are the vermin and if you dont agree at what i say, look at what flesh you eat , where it came from, what life she or he had, watching him or her struggle to take Its last breath when someone murders him or her in your name, and you know you dont need this food to have a better health, ask yourself “is the taste of flesh once its had something added to it really worth the misery” if your answer is yes, then also ask yourself, to take a look at the meat dairy egg industry 80% OF land and vast amount of water is used to produce these foods, the same land could grow x32 more of plant base foods for human use, think of all those kids in developing countries that are dyeing right now of starvation , , ALL BECAUSE OF THE GREEDY MEAT EATER, ARE WE REALLY THAT SELFISH,

    Reply
  • In the safe place inside my head, he ran un-opposed.
    I cant handle a reality where voters chose this ******* over somebody else

    Reply
  • Peter 23/07/12 #

    Militant vegans are as bad if not worse than fundamentalist religious groups, they are out of touch with reality in their molly~coddled world.

    Reply
  • I love animals…….they’re delicious.

    Reply
  • Tim you can see the source above, I don’t really care what happens to your body, its just that appealing to peoples humanity doesn’t work, appealing to their self interest is more effective.

    Reply
  • For those meat eaters ranting here….

    please watch the Film Earthlings (COMPLETE MOVIE) animal cruelty treatment fur meat …
    ► 83:22► 83:22

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19eBAfUFK3E

    Reply
  • David 23/07/12 #

    P.E.T.A. People Eating Tasty Animals

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  • Mattie McGrath is seriously out of touch with the recommendations of bodies such as the United Nations which stated as far back as 2010 that there is an urgent need for us to adopt a vegan diet due to the environmental damage caused by rearing animals for food (http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/jun/02/un-report-meat-free-diet). His statements also show that he is out of touch with the plethora of scientific research pointing to the dangers to human health that are posed by consuming animal food products. There is enough violence in the world without encouraging more, which is what allowing gun holders to shoot wildlife would do. There are extant humane methods by which farmers can keep birds away from crops, and more efficient methods could easily be developed. The members of our government are morally obliged to familiarise themselves with research that demonstrates how a plant based human diet causes signficantly less harm to human health, to the environment, and to other animals. Whatever perspective you look at it from – human health, world hunger, the environment, economically, and most important of all – the moral consideration we owe other sentient lifeforms – veganism is the logical lifestyle to live. If anyone is reading this I encourage you to watch the following 10 minute speech: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQCe4qEexjc

    Reply
  • See http://veganireland.vegaplanet.org/ for more on veganism.

    Reply
  • Gerard 23/07/12 #

    Hey vegans, always remember, my food craps on your food :-)

    Reply
  • I’m having an old friend for dinner……

    Reply
  • NICE CAT 24/07/12 #

    PEOPLE *PLEASE* WATCH THESE AWARD WINNING FILMS DOCUMENTARIES:

    1. “Earthlings”
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19eBAfUFK3E
    2. “Forks Over Knives”
    http://www.forksoverknives.com/
    3. “Hungry For Change”
    http://www.hungryforchange.tv/
    4. “Make the connection”
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnlVS3sw_-s
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmMMm2Vh8YQ&feature=relmfu
    5. Best Speech You Will Ever Hear – Gary Yourofsky
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=es6U00LMmC4
    6. “I am”
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpVEH-Bpdes

    Check some websites..
    http://veganireland.vegaplanet.org/
    http://vegankit.com/
    http://www.vegansociety.com/

    ..and then discuss about Veganism, Humans, Animals and Earth.

    Reply
  • http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2012/apr/07/insiders-guide-to-cancer-prevention

    Read this cancer surgeons reasoning for giving up meat – he doesn’t want to get cancer, now that is really simples. Also look at the cancer research uk website, the word that crops up again and again is meat, meat, meat.

    Reply
  • Jonathan Waxman, 49, professor of oncology, Imperial College London and Hammersmith hospital
    ‘There are established studies that argue vegetarians are 50% less likely to contract certain common cancers than carnivores. ‘

    Robert Steele, 60, professor of surgery, Ninewells hospital, University of Dundee
    ‘In2007, after attending the launch of the most compelling research I have read into lifestyle choices and cancer, I decided to temper my intake of red meat.’

    Reply
  • What a stupid debate on both the TD and vegan societies part! How does this even make the news!

    Oh and not all us vegetarians are cult ppl who moan at meat eaters!

    Reply
  • ‘The group have invited McGrath to “experience and enjoy vegan cuisine at our expense” so that they could prove that a person need not become a cannibal if they cannot eat fish or kill animal’

    I love it. Can you imagine what would happen at that meal if the vegetarians turned out to be wrong? Cannibal McGrath would put a swift end to them. High stakes indeed.

    Reply
  • I agree with roger! That definitely was an uneducated answer by mr McGrath. I wonder has he any idea that eating meat has a huge effect uponnOur environment and the wellbeing of humanity and the other species will share the planet with. These issues range from antibiotic resistance and development of super viruses to the destruction of rain forests for the production of beef. Around 70% of global grain and soya crop production is allocated to animal production. Alot of this grain comes from developing countries (Africa mostly) who cant feed themselves. Inefficiency: on average 7g of grain produces 1g of animal protein. nnCall me a hypocrite but i am a meat eater but have cut down to eating it 3 to four days a week.

    Reply
  • GlasBud 24/07/12 #

    the Irish population rose by 40% when the potato landed on our shores.

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  • I am amazed at the amount of disinformation that goes around. If you think vegans are brainwashed, than go and read few books about animal rights, watch few documentaries on global warming, world hunger and effects that avoiding animal products have on your health. There are many reasons why we should all change what we put into our body… just ask yourself it is right to take somebody else’s life when is possible to live a very healthy life on a plant based diet.

    Reply
  • I wouldn’t mind a bite of Georgia Salpa!

    Reply
  • No argument for veganism or vegetarianism will ever beat a full Irish fry

    Reply
  • Not only is McGrath and idiot, he is a fantasist as well.

    To claim that anyone involved in Animal Rights would bury shards of grass at a hare coursing event is just ludicrous.

    Perhaps if farmers didn’t shoot foxes or allow them to be hunted, there wouldn’t be the need to shoot the animals eating the crops!

    I personally do not understand the mentality of anyone wanting to kill animals for pleasure. Surely there is something wrong with a person who derives any satisfaction from it.

    Reply
  • That’s all well and good, but you haven’t have to put up with the needy guests that I have. Chicken wings from a dead cow might not be a problem to you, but to me It’s a conjurors trick too far. I jest.

    Reply
  • Don’t feed the carnivorous trolls.

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  • Former FF gombeen man, no surprise really.

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  • Meat eaters I am not surprised to find so much ignorance about your knowledge of the effect of meat on the environment on your health as well as the cruelty in factory farming,
    You cannot eat meat and say you care about the environment or your children’s future, there is an old proverb people… FIll your brains BEFORE you open your mouth !!!

    Reply
  • Mac vegan yum

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  • Im an animal lover , but I believe in the circle of life so therefor I’m a meat eater it’s a natural for human beings to eat animal meat same as it natural for a bird to eat a worm !! Simples

    Reply
  • All the world’s greatest people through the years in the sense of academic achievements/inventors etc have all been Herbivores. Tesla, Newton etc to nme but a few. Interesting. I like my smokestack and fries though.

    Reply
  • Has anybody else noticed that many food establishments have taken to putting a big dirty rasher on their burgers rather than a nice piece of crispy bacon. What is with that?

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  • David 23/07/12 #

    Mattie is dead right on this one. What is going to feed the growing world population? Silly Vegan and vegetarian cults need to get a life!

    Reply
    • You should seriously educate yourself on this one – a vegetarian diet is way more resource efficient that a carnivorous one. If we really want to provide food for a growing future world population then eating meat becomes less and less of a viable option.

      Reply
    • There’s enough food grown every year just to feed animals that could feed everyone on the planet. All the cows in the world cause more carbon dioxide pollution than all the cars on the planet.

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    • It is actually the reverse David. Each calorie of beef we eat takes 10 calories of plant material to produce. If we eat less meat, ten times as much grain is available for making bread, pasta or whatever. It is not simple because in many places it is not possible to directy grow crops instead of keeping livestock, but generally speaking the less meat we eat, the more food and calories there will be for humanity.

      Reply
    • So I say shoot all the cows dry age them for 28 days then fire up the BBQ. No more carbon dioxide.

      Reply
    • David 23/07/12 #

      I see the cult is out in force tonight. I’m afraid it is not I that needs to be educated on this one. Crops need alot of chemicals, irrigation and use of machinery. It’s actually more harmful to the environment than rearing animals. Also leaves of lettuce and crap like that is no good for nutrition. I mean what do vegans eat. Not even chocolate? Weird people. And what about all the little plants and their feelings?

      Reply
    • Peter 23/07/12 #

      Vegans produce as much of not more methane from their fibre rich diets, they are ticking fads bombs

      Reply
    • Paul 23/07/12 #

      @David, the crops being harvested for animals are being fed into an inefficient system. If those plants were fed to people, bypassing the animals, there’d be more to go around and there would be less destruction of the planet. Animals kept on farms consume 10 or 15kg of food for every one kilo they give us in food, it’s tasty but it’s a net loss.

      Reply
    • David 23/07/12 #

      So you want people to eat grass Paul? I’m afraid you people are brainwashed by the propaganda

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    • Naive man who passes himself off as intelligent. Those comments tell alot about your understanding of the worlds issues. nn

      Reply
    • I think its way past your bedtime David

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    • Paul 23/07/12 #

      “10 to 15 kg of [ FOOD ] for every kilo of food they provide” no grass is not for humans, but cows don’t only eat grass, they bulk up on soya and grains too (and of course grains are a type of grass anyway).

      Reply
    • Mediocre trolling but you’re getting a good response anyway!

      Reply
    • David 24/07/12 #

      @ Mattoid, Your right it was past my bedtime. Had to be up early to milk the cows and feed the calves. Have the steak on for lunch now soon. Leaves are no good for working people to keep their strength up. Alot of people on here that know nothing about Irish farming systems where all animals are reared on a grass based diet. Alot of yer propaganda relates to feedlots in less sustainable systems in other countries so don’t tar us all with the one brush. You see, a little information is a dangerous thing.

      Reply
    • Paul 24/07/12 #

      Your initial question is how we can feed a growing world population without feeding them beef…but beef raised in Ireland using Irish pasture beef raising…well those methods won’t work globally.

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    • David 24/07/12 #

      @ Paul, I didn’t say anything about beef in my original question. How about dairy produce

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    • Paul 24/07/12 #

      Presents similar limits…we can’t all eat an animal based diet. I love cheese and meat but I’m not kidding myself these are anything other than luxuries

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  • much more important things to worry about in the world than meat or veggie argument… why does it have to one or the other, i personally like my meat with 2 veg :)

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  • I got a phone call off a friend the other saying they had just killed a cow at home and would myself and the wife like to come over for dinner. Big juicy T-bone, medium rare and it was tasty. Chicken wings for starter and all washed down with a glass or 3 of red. Explain how you get the same satisfaction from a plate of lettuce cucumber and a carrot.

    Reply
  • Love that ad with the farmer oul wan ifryin up some Rrrrrrrrassssshers! She sells a fry so well, think it’s Denny

    Reply
  • On Mattiod’s comment….a carnivorous diet…please, most humans are omnivore’s that is dinner with meat and 2 veg…I have no probs with anyone who is or wants to become vegan or vegetarian, but please allow the rest of us enjoy our dinner in peace…thxs

    Reply
    • The problem, Martin, is that your dinner involves others who have been made to suffer and who have been killed when there is no good reason. The vegan case is that flesh and dairy consumption is morally questionable and the vegan invitation is for society to examine that claim.

      Reply
    • David 24/07/12 #

      How come it’s always the tiny minorities that seem to make so much noise. Empty vessels and all that i suppose.

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    • Oh, I think it is safe to say that the loudest voices are those of the fast-food advertisers. Let’s not begrundge the small voices in society. How are small voices to be heard and grow?

      Reply
  • Haha vegan claims another man is in danger of sounding completely out of touch. Tell me another

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    • If you aren’t aware of the range of vegan and vegetarian foods available then its possible that like McGrath you are out of touch – are you from the country? if so I guess that would be reasonable, I was originally (rural Australia) and didnt hear of veganism till I was around 26 so you could say I was out of touch.

      Reply
  • These same vegans would be against GM crops which have the potential to alleviate hunger from many parts of the world. They’re also the hippies campaigning against nuclear power and yet want us to use sustainable energy. Theyre also the hippies against any form of animal testing yet are quite happy to reap the benefits of advancements achieved through such testing. They’re also the people who think pharmaceutical companies should be burnt to the ground yet are happy to use modern day medicines.
    That’s not to say I’m a fan of animal testing or big pharma but I’m not a hypocrit.

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    • GM crops have the potential to alleviate works hunger?!? Would you cop yourself on there Ross. Monsanto have no interest in alleviating works hunger. The only hunger they want to alleviate is their hunger for wealth. And that hunger of theirs is insatiable.

      There is more than enough food in the world to feed everybody. World hunger is caused by food distribution, politics and Markets, not by the production of food. Have you heard about the amount of farmer suicides in India thanks to GM seeds? Please don’t cod yourself or Journal readers that it’s the hippies are out to get us.

      Reply
    • you don’t know the stand of all vegans on the topic of GM crops.
      You don’t know where vegans stand on nuclear power.
      Every vegan I have ever met avoids animal testing wherever possible to do so and stay alive (because products that need not be tested on animals legally have to be).
      I know vegans who are into traditional medicine, three of my vegans friends are doctors,another a pharmacist ,I know 2 vegan naturopath and a few TCM fans.
      I know exactly 0 vegans who are hippies, most hippies I know wear plenty of leather and wool and keep chickens for eggs.
      I am a vegan and in my travels have met over a hundred vegans if not 200 by now and we are a diverse bunch.

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    • I can well imagine where most of them stand on those issues

      Reply
  • “It is better to live one day as a tiger than one hundred years as a sheep”

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  • Humans got teeth so we can eat meat and fish! If we were meant to be vegetarians then we would not have the sharp teeth we have!

    If we stop feeding animals and instead grow crops! Its true crops take more energy to grow than animals BUT as they have found in australia animals produce manure which is highly valuable in growing crops, if the farmers use no manure and artificial fertliser then the yields will be less! We need animals for meat and also for crops!! Without cow manure the crop yields will keep falling! Both go hand in hand,

    Here’s an interesting fact Africa has the potential to produce enough food to feed the entire world population!!

    Reply

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