A political protest is needed because of the plight of the people living in Gaza. Well done to the flotilla. Not so good Alan Shatter, however he is entitled to his opinion – personally I think that he must be living up on top of Three Rock not to understand the issues, but hey it isn’t the first time a politician twisted things a bit and it won’t be the last.

He is also badly outnumbered in the Cabinet so he is really just spouting off, he won’t be able to achieve very much.

The commenter who said something along the line of “he’s a Jew so of course he would” should be ashamed of himself/herself. That type of nonsense is what make it more difficult to talk properly about the plight of the Palestinians.

The argument of why not bring aid to somewhere else is a tad silly. Its the blockade that is the reason for all these flotillas. Anyway, according to the Irish Examiner, this boat isn’t actually physically bringing aid, so you have to wonder if it is political and if it is, then its the wrong way to go about it.

Also the Rafah crossing doesn’t allow goods in, only people.

My only comment is this coalition Government is demonstrating to the electorate that they are not communicating nor coordinating their actions and statements…

This has the potential to cause another rift in this administration, thereby shortening the life of it.

Foreign Minister does one thing, Justice Minister says another thing…

On the subject, Israel and Palestine must start talking to each other in a proper fashion and look to this island as to how we resolved our conflict.

There is no need to provoke Israel further with what is going on in the Middle East at this moment in time, even if they docked in Egypt, their own personal safety is not guaranteed as the country is currently in turmoil.

The timing is wrong in my opinion, but until Israel allows humanitarian aid into Palestine, the issue must continue to be highlighted. Where is the mighty EU on this, they can easily impose sanctions on both countries until hostilities cease and the USA should adopt a similar stance, they have a better chance with a Democrat administration rather than a Republican one.

Just my thoughts on a very complex issue coupled with wrong timing.

I see Chris Andrews has called Alan Shatter a “Israeli Puppet”, I’m glad so many people are giving out to Chris.And quite rightly asking if Shatter wasn’t Jewish would he have called him a puppet.??

Why is the words “political protest” in inverted commas and the word “aid flotilla” is not?

And the use of phosphorus bombs

Is he using his political position to advance a personal opinion? Tut tut.

Mr Shatter was no where to be seen when the world was condemning the last Israeli invasion of Gaza when Israel used white phosperous missiles on civilallions and mudrered 100s of ciliallions or when Israel murdered innocent civiallions on the M.V Mara in international waters. I dont respect him as our Minister for Justice as he beleived that the only Justice that the children of Gaza deserve is at the end of an Israeli Missile

Oil Foster,

How about answering the points instead of indulging in personal abuse?

Anyway, very well said, Mister Shatter. I think the Irish government’s position on this is laudable – questioning the motives of the flotilla while urging the Israelis to show restraint.

HEY whats with all the anti Israeli talk,do you s forget that the blockade is put in place because of hamas and he islamic nutcases who want to destroy the west sponserd by Iran and syria,who may i add are murdering their own population at this very moment by the hundreds,so folks if thats what you want go ahead and give your support to a bunch of do gooders who havnt tasted a bit of blood yet,but dont worry they will when they meet the Israeli ,s

Hi Ciarán,

Thanks for the compliment! I probably am being harsh on this Government as it was more of a sweeping generalisation in the number of communications gaffes in the last 100 days. It will however cause a conflict within the Labour Party. I personally think that the Minister(Shatter) should not have been asked for his comment and if so, he should have pointed the media to Gilmore and said the question has been answered. Sometimes, I do not get the media, it is irresponsible to ask him to comment knowing his background and Shatter should have have the foresight to reference Gilmore when asked. I guess that is why I am being harsh, I hope that explains why?

What irritates me the most is the misconception that every Israeli and Palestinian hate each other, they do not, the ordinary citizens on both sides desire peace but a handful of Government Ministers (Israeli and Palestinian) willfully block the wishes of their peoples. I feel I can make a comment like that as I have been to both countries in the past, we need to look no further than our own country to actually provide a solution.

Trying to get a truly Independent report that both sides would agree to would actually go a long way.The flotilla will not work and will only provoke and all sides know this…

For what it’s worth, I am just pro peace who tries to apply common sense and logic for an answer.

Eamonn

As I pointed out, this issue is too complex simply to set sail on ships, it will not resolve the issue.

I stand by my comment regarding the blocking of aid into Palestine via a statement issued by Ban Ki-moon, head of the UN, as far as I know, this statement has not been retracted as of yet but I stand to be corrected…

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/11/world/middleeast/11nations.html

Regards.

Too much media attention given to a boat full of Jihad sympathisers and Shinners setting sail for Gaza. Why aren’t they setting sail for Libya, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Syria where there are real and horrific humanitarian catastrophes? The Irish Anti-War movement doesn’t seem too interested when Arabs are being butchered by their own governments, only when they are dying due to the actions of Israeli/American forces, whether directly or indirectly.

“The boat is part of an aid flotilla bound for the contentious Gaza Strip where it hopes to deliver building materials and humanitarian aid”. – That the reason Mr Shatter.

If you use terrorism against terrorists you become the terrorist

Oil Foster, I am happy to defend Israel anytime I think its appropriate to do so. If you refer back to my first comment what I did in effect was to question the apparent willingness of the flotillistas to turn a blind eye to the wickedness of some of the parties their actions would inevitably empower and embolden.As expected (indeed predicted), the response has been flash-card style attacks on Israel but stubborn refusal to address the issues I raised. All of which goes to confirm my opinion that the IPSC, the IAWM, the Free Gaza Movement, the whole sorry lot of them are essentially just modern-day useful idiots. (Mr Foster, I hope that doesn’t offend your sensitivities too much, though you did twice accuse me of lack of knowledge).

Finally someone sensible :) Just two weeks ago another luxury supermarket was opened in Gaza and another water park. If somebody really wants to help why not help Haiti, Eritrea, Darfur or Syria for that matter? Why help territory supplied by Israel in water and power shouting about condemnation to Israel? Why support territory (because it is no humanitarian help it is political statement) ruled by terrorist organization recognized as such by UN and most countries? It is just the act of political support for Gaza authorities – same authorities who don’t allow girls to be educated with boys, stalk and kill homosexuals, generously apply capital punishment to their own people and send their mentally disabled as living bombs to Israeli border.

Obviously he has a bias being from a Jewish family. But anyway they both need to sort out their problems. :]

Eamonn, you’re a voice of sanity in this debate but I wouldn’t be so harsh on the Irish government on this particular issue. I don’t see a huge difference between Gilmore and Shatter. Along with urging the Israelis to use restraint, Gilmore said “I have made it clear that I cannot advise any Irish national to participate in a venture which potentially brings them into harm’s way through seeking to break a naval blockade”

He also praised Israeli moves to allow in construction materials: “Positive steps in this direction by Israel, building on the announced intention earlier this week to allow [the United Nations Relief and Works Agency] bring in $100 million of urgently needed reconstruction materials which I welcome and hope is now quickly implemented, would obviate any need for humanitarian-motivated flotillas of this kind to be mounted.”

(http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0624/1224299525035.html)

There’s no endorsement of the flotilla there and I doubt there’s much Alan Shatter would disagree with.

Mathilde de Riedmatten of the Red Cross has recently said there is no humanitarian crisis in Gaza. I’d dearly love to hear an independent voice on what conditions are like in Gaza. I don’t think the flotilla folks are independent – they’re wilfully ignoring the Egyptian blockade and this suggests to my mind that they have a very specific and anti-Israeli agenda.

He’s right that it’s a political protest. You have many ULA councillors, MEPs and TDs who are going off on a Mediterranean cruise when they were elected to represent here at home, not abroad.

When New York Times’ Ethan Bronner came through the Erez crossing into the Gaza Strip this week, he expected something completely different.

This was not his first visit to the Strip. During the past three and a half years, Bronner, who heads the newspaper’s Jerusalem bureau, visited the Palestinian enclave on several occasions.

During Operation Cast Lead he stayed in Gaza for two weeks and his visits usually last more than a day, as the border crossing closes at 3 pm.

Trade
Gaza starts exporting tomatoes / Tani Goldstein
Palestinian farmers to sell cherry tomatoes to Israeli company Agrexco, which will market them in Europe
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Like other journalists who do not carry Israeli passports – Bronner, who received the Pulitzer Prize in 2001 for a series of investigative reports about terrorist organization al-Qaeda – has no trouble getting into the Strip. The Erez Crossing is open six days a week and no one gave him a hard time.

With the spotlight diverted from Gaza in recent months, Bronner found himself travelling to other destinations. He spent a long time in Egypt and went to Bahrain to cover the uprisings in the Arab world.

When he arrived in Gaza this week, Bronner wrote, he was surprised to discover that on the eve of the second Gaza-bound aid flotilla – conditions in the Strip were much better than he had expected.

Shortage in four-wheel drive cars
The first thing that caught Bronner’s attention were the “thousands of new cars plying the roads.” Israel allows the import of a 20 cars a week, but according to the New York Times reporter, “That does not meet the need.

“Hundreds of BMWs, pickup trucks and other vehicles have arrived in recent months from Libya, driven through Egypt and sold via the unmonitored tunnels,” he said.

Gaza resident Yossef Nazal noted that “even red sports cars can be seen roaming around the Strip, not to mention motorcycles, especially three-wheeled motorcycles, which have become the latest fashion.”

It turns out that unlike three or four years ago, when people speak about shortage, they don’t mean herbs, but rather four-wheel vehicles – one of the few items Israel does not allow into the Strip.

But cars are not the only indicator that things are better than they used to be. In his article, Bronner noted that “two luxury hotels are opening in Gaza this month,” one of which is owned by Palestinian billionaire Munib al Masri.

“A second shopping mall — with escalators imported from Israel — will open next month,” he writes, adding that “Hundreds of homes and two dozen schools” are also scheduled to be built in the upcoming year, in addition to a three-story wedding hall.

Omar Ghraib, a blogger from Gaza, writes that in order to comprehend the change that has been taking place in the Strip, it’s enough to look at the butcher stalls in the market.

Local Gazans can buy Egyptian poultry, which is smuggled through the tunnels, for $1 per kilo, but most of them fear diseases and therefore opt for Israeli chickens, which are sold for $1-$2 per kilo or the more prestigious home-grown poultry, which are sold for $2-$3 per kilo.

In his article, Bronner confirms that most consumer goods still originate in Israel, and that “the siege on goods is now 60% to 70% over.”

Some 350 trucks are allowed to pass through the Kerem Shalom Crossing, which has become the main transit hub for goods originating from Israel. However in practice, the number only reaches 250 because of one simple, yet surprising reason – there isn’t enough demand.

Import-export business
As part of the rise in living standards, Gaza merchants focus on importing more luxury goods such as tropical fish, bicycles, camping gear and plasma TVs, which come straight from Israel.

Once a week, some 70 Gaza traders travel to Israel to look for potential merchandise to import.

Even the export market, albeit still in small quantities, has boomed recently with strawberries, flowers, potatoes and cherry tomatoes being sold to Jordan and the Persian Gulf states. Gaza tradesmen now plan to resume exports of Furniture and textiles to the West Bank, as was done four years ago.

Despite the encouraging picture, Bronner notes that Israel still bans cement, steel and other construction material from entering the Strip “because they are worried that such supplies can be used by Hamas for bunkers and bombs.

“So in recent months, tunnels under the southern border that were used to bring in consumer goods have become almost fully devoted to smuggling in building materials,” Bronner explains.

“Sacks of cement and piles of gravel, Turkish in origin and bought legally in Egypt, are smuggled through the hundreds of tunnels in double shifts, day and night, totaling some 3,000 tons a day. Since the overthrow of President Hosni Mubarak, the Egyptian security authorities no longer stop the smugglers. Streets are being paved and buildings constructed,” he notes.

“What we don’t get from Israel, we get through the tunnels, says Daud Harb, a merchant from the Strip, adding that the only thing currently missing in Gaza is freedom.

‘Relative freedom if Hamas not provoked’

The Gazan summer is in full swing and the beaches, just like in Tel Aviv, are swarming with bathers. Families with children and hijab-clad women dip into the cool waters of the Mediterranean Sea.

On the warm evenings, people sit at coffee shops and internet cafes that are becoming abundant. One hand grasps the water-pipe while the other is typing status updates on Facebook. In the background, large screens are broadcasting live soccer matches from the English and Spanish Leagues.

The summer is also the official wedding season in Gaza, but young couples will have to wait another two weeks due to a ban imposed by Hamas, in order to prevent noise during high school matriculation exams.

For the same reason motorcyclists are not allowed to roam through the streets past 10 pm.

After all, Gaza 2011 is Hamas-ruled. The society has become more conservative, mosques have increased in number, Islamic education is fervently applied to daily life both formally and informally, and almost all media outlets have an Islamic nature.

“Sure, we have some crazy laws, like women can’t drive motorcycles, sing provocative songs, giggle on the beach or smoke water pipes in public areas,” says Ahmed Nazal, a resident of Rimal neighborhood, the Gazan equivalent of Ramat Aviv.

“But if you don’t provoke Hamas, you can live here pretty freely,” he adds.

Bronner also notes that “Hamas’s control of Gaza appears firmer than ever, and the looser tunnel patrols in Egypt mean greater access to weapons as well. But opinion surveys show that its more secular rival, Fatah, is more popular.”

This, the Jerusalem bureau chief notes, “may explain why an attempt at political unity with Fatah is moving slowly: Hamas leaders here are likely to lose their jobs.”

Despite the improved image, Gaza is a far cry from being the Manhattan of the Middle East. While the economy did report a 15.2$ growth according to the International Monetary Fund, Ghraib notes that thousands of houses that were destroyed during Operation Cast Lead have yet to be rebuilt.

Frequent blackouts are also not an unusual phenomenon, some of them lasting between 6 and 8 hours daily.

Bronner finds it difficult to assess the condition of the 1.6 million people living in the Gaza Strip.

“There are issues of where to draw the baseline and — often — what motivates the discussion. It has never been among the world’s poorest places. There is near universal literacy and relatively low infant mortality, and health conditions remain better than across much of the developing world,” he notes.

Either way, the low emigration rates from Gaza indicate that despite the hardships, the congestion and the feeling of living under a siege, the locals still love Gaza and are willing to struggle in order to stay there.

Typical comment for Alan Shatter he lives in his own little world most of the time.

If the flotilla gets to Gaza, will Raymond Deane and his comrades sip mint tea with the people who celebrated the ritual slaughter of the Fogel family, the beheading of a 3 month old innocent? The people who fired a rocket at a schoolbus killing a child and routinely target schools? Who danced in the streets on 9/11 when innocent Irish citizens, among so many others, were murdered? Who proclaimed Bin Laden a martyr? Who consider all Jews all over the world fair game? Make no mistake, if the flotilla were to achieve it’s stated aims the appalling Hamas would be empowered and the insidious influence of Iran (International Home of Holocaust Denial) would increase.All the bleating about “Israeli Apartheid” and “rogue state” can’t hide the pathetic truth.

He’s Jewish just from that he’d be against this flotilla, bet he woul’ve been against expelling that Israeli last year.

Oil Foster, For someone who doesn’t know enough to have an informed opinion on the Middle-East you seem to express a lot of them. But typical of your camp you ignore the substantial and accurate points I made and just engage in ad hominem attacks. If there were good answers to my points presumably you or one of your friends would have made them. The Holocaust reference is timely as Ahmadinejad has been spouting on the issue ( with a sprinkling of 9/11 conspiracy) in the last couple of days.I know that because I follow the news closely so that I can make informed comments. So, do you admire Hamas? Hezbollah? The Islamic Republic? Let’s have some straight answers.

I’m confused. What are “Palestinian waters”? I have been unable to find on a map. Should I contact Hamas or Hezbollah to obtain the proper map? Thanks Alan Shatter for being the lone voice of reason amongst the anti – Semitic Irish crowd who forget that their track record on all things Jewish goes back a long time. Remember when Eamonn De Valera signed the book of condolences at the German Embassy during the ” Emergency” when Hitler died?

Even though both the UN and the Red Cross have stated that there is no humanitarian crisis in Gaza, some people still like to pretend there is; even though it is now public knowledge that there is a lot of wealth in Gaza. The fact that some people just react to Minister Shatters comments by saying things like “what can you expect from a Jew’ – well that just points to something obvious about those people.
It seems that some people just get an idea into their head – eg. about the big, bad “zionist” enemy – and they will pay any price to keep that idea – and don’t want to get confused by the facts…
But the fact is: Israel needs to stop ships from arriving in Gaza in order to stop weapons from reaching Gaza. The truth is that that Hamasl and the other Islamist groups (and not “zionist” Israel) are the dangerous people who don’t care about human rights – least of all about those of their own people – that’s why they encourage suicide bombing and use children as cannon fodder for propaganda purposes. This is so obvious and well known, that it’s only blind anti-semitism that projects all the evil onto Israel instead of opposing groups like Hamas – which is what they would do if they really cared about human rights.

Oh Oil Foster I know what’s going on alright. It suits you to hide behind your barely-intelligible insults rather than answer the real points, which you have failed abysmally to do.I get that you hate Israel.You probably get that I think its a shining beacon of democracy and enlightenment in an otherwise dark corner of the world. Now that we have that out of the way I’llask you and anyone else who cares to take on the challenge: Do you admire Hamas? Hezbollah? The Islamic Republic? Or do you not. These really are straightforward questions.

@Oil Foster.

Well with 47 Countries that practice the religion of peace, democracy, and equal rights, where Syria sits in the UN’s human rights council, it’s not hard to get yourself UN resolutions on any topic you want.

So Oil Foster, I’m a bully and you are neutral as between Israel and its opponents? To borrow your own word-claptrap.Indeed your first contribution to this thread was to dismiss a comment supportive of Israel as “typical pro-Israeli claptrap”.You profess not to be sufficiently informed on Middle Eastern problems to make an informed opinion but you dive in nonetheless, pouring scorn on Israel and its supporters and whining about perceived insults and alleged bullying.In the meantime, you don’t have sufficient respect for your fellow contributors to check your comments for typos before pressing “Submit”.( I may have let one or two typos of my own slip through, for which I apologise to one and all).I asked simple questions which you claim to have answered but clearly have not. That doesn’t make me a bully, it makes you a coward. Anyway, you certainly have reinforced my sense of the moral vacuum at the heart of so much the Western anti- Israel movement. (PS I don’t think anti-semitism in the historical sense is a major factor for Western opponents of Israel, but it is for many of the Middle-Eastern groups to whom they would bring support).

@ Ciarán Ó Raghallaigh

de Valera made a complete idiot of himself as regards his response to the demise of Hitler but I don’t believe there was any malicious intent there. Irish people are not inherently willfully antisemitic but many decent Irish people are antisemitic in a practical sense because they are fed a pile of guff by the Irish establishment because leftist extremists want to destroy the State of Israel and are happy to see the Jewish people being exterminated and if Irish business wants to gain contracts in Muslim countries it does not harm at all that Ireland should have a tilt in favor of destroying the State of Israel and getting the Jewish population of the British Isles and Continental Europe put in to concentration camps and gassed with Zyklon B.

Oil Foster, You won’t answer my questions so don’t expect me to answer yours.I’m logging out. Goodnight.

I’ll tell you what Oil Foster. You answer where you stand on Hamas, Hezbollah and Iran (leaders not people)? Please don’t reply with weasel words about being against all terrorists, etc.Then list the individual UN Resolutions of which Israel is allegedly in breach and I will answer as best I can. Please be specific about the reference details of each Resolution and the nature of the alleged breach. Please do not treat resolutions of the biased (according to Goldstone, Mary Robinson, and common sense) UNHRC as resolutions of the UN.Can I be any fairer than that?

You truly are a classy guy,Oil Foster.I offered to answer your questions if you answered mine first.Instead you put your cowardice,your ignorance and your crudity on display for all to see. You who whined about being insulted by others resort to flinging childish muck at me.Just out of interest,are you the online face of some anti-Israel or pro-Flotilla group or are you a lone ranger (like me)?