Please come to the Protest march tomorrow. Leaving from Garden of Remembrance at 1pm tomorrow! Marching to Convention Centre on Quays. Please come.

Reada

No Thanks :-)

Alan.
Nevertheless. I am very disapointed at the amount of people who softened up in the end and paid.
I predicted this outcome a couple of months ago on the Journal.
Irish people don’t know how to hold together at times like these.
In fairness. Every government needs taxes but this is going too far.
You poor people.
This is only the beginning. Let the exploitment begin.
You will once again be fleeced.
As did the bankers, the government, property developers or indeed the english during their occupation.
Best of luck to you defeated!

Don’t forget it’s 1 million households that have held firm not 1 million people.
Two thirds of the population have refused to pay this unjust tax.
That should be the main story on the 9 o’clock news tonight but I won’t hold my breath.

People haven’t softened up

Still holding firm :)

None. We know where they live.

None. We have their names and addresses.

Good one, Michael !!

why have a headline like that? why not say only 620,000 have payed the charge so far?

To themamba1
As John Tierney just posted.
600 000 gobshites.
I notice that you got a thumbs down re your comment.
Now what dunce would do that?
It just shows the low level of intelligence there is out there.

I couldn’t care less what charges the dredge up. You get to a stage after enduring being abused by Fianna fail for years that you will take anything to resist evil.

You will be ratted on if you don’t pay or register. That’s the Irish way. I’ve paid so f@&k them…they will too. There will be no way out of this. The force of the majority who eventually pay, combined with your gnawing desire to be law abiding will break you down. In a few weeks you and thousands more will open up your web connection and pay up. That’s the way unfortunately… Now the battle has to move on to implementing a fair and affordable property tax. Exempt boom time 1st time buyers who paid massive stamp duty and who are just threading water. Let the rich pay their fair share.

Yes, SilentP another property boom run by rats is exactly what we need.

There is a trap in the declaration formula.

By declaring that you are the householder, you are accepting a legal liability for future unspecified house-based taxes and you are entering into a contract to pay. You are also handing over your details to a vast state-sponsored data-mining operation to build up a database to use to extract more taxes as a householder — water charges next year and the future property tax are the obvious ones.

So, in effect these supposed 600000 have paid €100 for the privilege of doing the work of creating a Facebook-like databank to the government’s advantage — they have paid to make a very big stick to beat their own backs.

This is extremely foolish. Last year alone the Gov cut €170 million from local govt services. Even if everyone paid this tax, it would not cover those cuts. Everything they say is lies.

The only answer is not to pay. And, to be outside the Fine Gael ardfheis with thousands of others tomorrow at 1.30 pm to show these assholes how you feel.

Im also sick of people comparing the charge to the UK council taxes,they get a bit of value for their money and their political system is a lot more transparent,isn’t it less than 2 years ago where MP’s resigned for claiming £200 expenses for gardening and a host of things far less than what the assholes we have here are claiming for,not alone the unvouched expenses.

To be fair Lairlair, we get alot for the council tax we pay in the UK. I’d like to see what the people in Ireland will get in return for this, sweet FA comes to mind!!!! :-(

@Patrick yup thats the thing,i would not have a problem with the HHC if there was accountability and transparency,They are lying through their teeth by saying this is only for 2 years!!!!!

I also have to add that in Spain where my parents live they pay e200 a year residential tax. But for that they get all services including bins where they could literally dump a whole house, water and a community swimming pool with lifeguard. They even get security for the area at night.

What will we get? Even when people are paying a e1000 and have to pay water and bins after that. Are the people that paid not thinking of this? Are they not worried that they might struggle to put food on the table after all the charges are paid? That’s why I’m not paying. I will make damn sure there is food on the table for my kids before I give these scumbags any of my money!

@ Pat
Unfortunately not all of us were in a position to get a mortgage and buy a home, I never was. And although (as I have stated many times over the plast couple of weeks in my posts) I live in a council owned property and am exempt from this charge but I WILL be marching tomorrow, to show my, and give my support to those like you who have bought their homes. This attitude of them (council tennants) and us (home owners) is not helpful and does nothing but play into the hands of the Coalition, who have taken the lead from Mountbatton – Divide and Conquer. United we stand, divided we fall.

Oh and just to add to that, buying a home doesnt equate to bettering yourself. After all John Gilligan had a very nice home surrounded by several acres, Tony Felloni managed to buy houses for his kids and CAB are doing quite nicely from the acquisition of property that was bought by scum with their blood money. I on the other hand may live in a council owned peoperty but I went back to University when I was 30 to better myself.

Aren’t you great.

Well done Jenny!
Enough is enough!

I think you’re great! :-)

@Steve very racist attitude in your pervious post even Hogan wouldn’t call his fellow citizens that.

Well done Jenny . Proud of you ,we must stick together.It is an unjust and immoral tax , and an unjust and immoral law.

and we will Liz. We will. We are all sick to death of being walked on.

Liz
I could hug you
Thanks for that , we will march tomorrow and we will show them all how much we love being Irish and want Ireland to succeed , but not at the cost of our children or grand children.
We have already succeeded.

Plenty of people have paid. But they’re afraid to say so. If you read the comments on this thread you’ll see why.

That’s right Nicola, some people have paid because they’re scared. Bully boy Hogan and his Black Bag Mafia have prevailed. However, many others have shown true Irish spirit and are sticking up for themselves.

I’m absolutely opposed to this tax as much as anyone, but do not hate those who have found themselves so afraid they have payed. Fear is driving the payment. Shame on you Phil hogan. Do we not already pay enough. Next you will tax the words we speak. What reward have you been promised for your betrayal of our people and land. May you choke on your 20 bits of silver.

Even the Gardai had to issue warnings to people after big phil told us that he was going nto send (innocent) council workers to remind us to pay up . What an idiot . Has he never listened to himself ? Imagine threatening people in their own homes, and then having con men following his suggestion up… Phil you are a plank.
Nicola @
There are children starving in this country too.

Yes. They have to be opened yet.

Exactly. Next time they’ll have a e200 a year lawn tax and off goes the stupid sheep. Sometimes I wonder how the hell we got our country back in the first place! Such a pity we all can’t stand together as one, although 1million people isn’t bad!

I also wonder about how Ireland got independance when people are so gullible. The gutless 600k were obviously not decended from anyone who fought for Irish freedom. If they did they would have more Balls.

yet again the government target the silent majority (ie. working/middle class) who they know are too busy trying to earn a living that they wont protest.. If they were to cut the dole/pension or even apply the property tax to council housing there’d be marches on the dail.

Maybe they paid because you people make them want not to be accosted with you. All this name calling is pathetic. I’m not paying but with people here spouting on the way they do it’s no wonder nobody protests and it’s no wonder people don’t vote for change (vote left), it’s because they don’t want to be associated with assholes!

That’s right Gerry, we prefer to associate with a better class of people.

True, but they just got a council tax instead.

I am in the “not paying” camp. For me, its conditional – i’ll pay when there are major cuts in political salaries and pensions, when local govt is reformed, when the ECB is faced down and something credible is done about “our” debts. It is no longer acceptable for a government to lie its way into power. If they dont do the job I pay them to do – then they dont get paid. Very simple.

When i see progress on the above, Then I will pay. Til then – nothing.

Live Wire

Treat other commenters with respect. Even if what they are saying is unreasonable, you will make your point much more effectively if you do so in civil terms.

Its obvious to me you didnt read it.

Can I change my name on here to youbettershutup!!!

I need respect because I lost my self respect in one of those black sacks

Me neither . I have not spoken to anyone who is paying either !

I only know 1 couple who have paid it

No the government elected by the majority are elected to do the right thing not the popular thing. It’s FF doing the popular thing that got us into this mess in the first place.

Cranky Yank
You would think, but not here. They are going down the slippery slope .

But Frank, this move is popular among zombie FG supporters.

And more lies

…and statistics.

It doesn’t take courage to pay tax buddy, i’m just paying my dues to get this country out of this mess for my children’s sake..the tax is a reality that’s here to stay the same way as every other country has it…

mike,
tell the G to take the casino bankin debt away,
now that would go 100′s of times further than payin 100 quid
to the shower of clowns in the dail. Please don’t delude yourself.

Says the woman who likes to buy her new car every 3 years.

Yes buddy, it is to collect data so that you can pay your way in this country for years to come, same as citizens in every other country…sure we all could be selfish and not pay our way couldn’t we…but where prey tell would that leave us???

yes mike,
lets all pay our way.
so, let the banks pay their way,
let bertie get a job
let the boys do their own laundry

etc
etc
etc
etc

We know everything. That’s how this country runs so well.

The poeple of 1916 were men and women who stood up to an empire…..they got their strenght from thoese men and women who stood against bad pay and conditions for the work they had to do and the crap they took from employers in 1912……..I think 100 years later the clock has fully turned……A nation is rising

He’s worried about having to pay an extra e10 by September and e20 by Xmas? Why couldn’t people hold off together. Worst scenario, pay extra e30 over 12 months. There is also a 1% charge per month. But no, the sheep will always go by themselves.

Tell your dad not to worry. Support him. There will be a million people with him.

Tell your dad not to worry, there are 1 million households fighting his corner for him. Tell him to go to his local at 1.30 tomorrow afternoon and have a pint and support local jobs/businesses. We’ll do his marching for him and take down Phill the black sacks Hogan :O)

Nicely made point, Ann and I hope your dad gets served an equally well served pint.

I did not pay and will not pay ha ha ha

Hello Ann That was my idea of a joke I write songs and jokes in my spare time Im writing a country song at the moment its called Love in the country I will send it to a country singer and if it becomes a hit I get a few bob It goes like this I wake the morn just after dawn look ot the window and see …………………I love reading the blogs because they are funny sometimes and give me material for jokes and songs.

True story – A person in Wicklow with 26 years remaining on the mortgage contacted the Bank and requested in writing what percentage of the house they owned! The Bank replied back in writing confirming they own 3% of the house meaning the Bank ( who holds the deeds ) own the balance which being 97%. The Wicklow person has offer to pay 3% of the charge and written to The government along with giving a copy of the letter and stated they can ask the Bank for the balance of the payment ! …… Interesting stance…

I seriously doubt their figures, their politicians for jaysus sake all they do is lie. Spin away, progressive tax my hole, they were told to get €1billion off the peasants so expect north of €600 a year. Well see how many cough that up on top of water charges and everything else. And then they will wonder why retail sales are down for the last 50 months. Austerity doesn’t work, the unemployment numbers show this. You can’t tax your way out of a recession and this is more stealth taxes. Pity people are scared into this, see how long before we finally snap.

Well alledgedly they are processing 5000 payments per hour. Pity they cant be that efficient and produictive in all government departments. Provide government service like that right across the board and I think you will find that people wouldnt mind paying more tax.

Paying our way is not gutless my friend…just doing something for our country instead of scrounging

It didn’t require any courage to pay the tax. Or brains. You’re not doing anything for the country, just helping to dig the hole deeper.

Scrounging??? HA! I get NOTHING from my USC, PRSI, PAYE, VAT. Its the government that are scrounging, pal.

Not only are the most compliant people in the world, we have a bunch of quislings turning their aggression on the ones who are standing up for themselves.

Statistically some of them must have paid. They probably just don’t tell you because you’d call them an idiot or something.

Karl Marx speaking out for the property classes over the Working classes. How ironic.

Phil would pay double postage, so yippee? Good grief.

Clue: money doesn’t just land here from outer-frikken-space. Anything the govt pays for, YOU pay for.

including their golden handshakes,
their big fat pensions
their fairly healthy salaries,
jesus, their god damn laundry bill….

No. If I sent in a brick I’d have to get a new brain.

You have no idea who I am. Don’t you dare make judgements about me based on a few lines typed on a website.

Nicola, don’t type lines on an open forum posted on the WORLD WIDE WEB if you don’t want to be judged. !!

It’s common sense, same as not paying this corrupt tax this excuse of spineless, inept and shameful government are trying to scare us into.

NO WAY WE WONT PAY!!

See you later today Nicola.

I should be able express an opinion without having my personal character called into question, I think you’ll find.

I agree. A chicken has more balls then most of the irish when it comes to protesting.

Has it occured to any of you that some people haven’t paid because they ‘have no balls’ or are afraid? Some people genuinely believe that paying it is the right thing to do. I paid it because I can (just about) afford to do so and I feel a responsibility to take a hit if needs be. I have the right to this opinion. It’s not driven by fear, idiocy or weakness. And I won’t be ridiculed for it.

Well , I did not get us into this debt , It is not my debt , I wsill not pay this , and Nicola I am no fool either . I hope you will be able to just about pay it next year when it is €600

But Susie you did get us into this debt, we all got us into this debt. 95% of our 14 billion overspending this year is not going to pay for banks… fact. Even if we’d never paid a red cent into a bank we’d still owe the majority of the money we borrowed… fact. So anyone who uses government services, works for the government or is on social welfare is responsible for that overspending. Every nurse, teacher and guard is responsible, every patient in a hospital is responsible. Every person on a low rate of tax is responsible. You get the idea. Far easier to demonise the bankers for it all though isn’t it..
There will be a full property tax introduced here, there is no doubt about that. A real property tax is a sustainable tax on wealth and is seen and used that way all over the world. But bizarrely much of the left in this country are against it. We do not have a sustainable tax base now… fact and we need one…fact. The sooner we stop listening to quick fix nonsense and we start protesting about things that we can change the better for us all.

The difference, Susie, is that I didn’t call you or anyone else a fool for not paying, whereas throughout this thread people who have paid are being labelled as such. I didn’t individually get us into this debt either, but I do believe tough devisions have to be made to get us out of it. I also believe we should have a sustainable & fair property tax system, which I hope this will lead to. I dislike handing money over as much as anyone else, but in this case I feel it’s the right thing to do. I 100% understand and respect the choice of people who are refusing to pay. Having read this thread, I do not believe that the same courtesy is being afforded to myself and others who have chosen to pay.

Nicola
….and through out this thread people who have not paid are called scroungers …..go figure . I have been called many nasty names also opn other threads by other people .So maybe it is time for you and your friends to grow up and stop being so so selfish and self absorbed
Gary @
I have worked all my life as had my father (RIP) and it is because of the combined efforts of us that you and your little blue shirt friends can read and write and have arses to your trousers and possibly shoes on your feet .

And straight to the name calling. I stated some facts for you. You don’t have to like them or me but they’ll still be facts.

I’m selfish and self-absorbed because I complied with law and paid a tax that you happen to disagree with? Whatever. I tried to engage in a rational debate with you. But by resorting to name-calling, you’ve proven yourself to be incapable of intelligent, adult discussion. Good work, and best of luck changing the world, one inarticulate post at a time.

And incidentally, Susie, the argument of ‘it’s not my fault, why should I pay?’ is pathetic. I didn’t personally cause children to stave in Africa, but I believe I have a duty to donate to charity. It’s called social responsibility. Look it up.

Gary, you have to recognise that Ireland had a form of property tax, the stamp duty paid at purchase. It was not a fair type of tax as it did not relate to ability to pay but to ability to borrow. We know now that borrowing and lending was screwed up. Many people have paid enough tax on their homes to satisfy any reasonable taxation system already.

nicola,
you want to talk about social responsibility?????

What of the 1000’s of homes that are right this minute in THIS country
simply just surviving?
Merciful Jesus,
don’t get me started.

Would you also not believe that you have some social responsibility to stand by them
by NOT paying it?
well, you’ve paid it, so clearly you do not believe in them

Gary
No I did not get us into this situation … You are so funny …NOT.
Go and play under your bridge some where else like a good little boy.

if people dont agree with you’re comment you are branded a troll or called names.

Hey guys,

Can we please refrain from making these comments personal. If you need a refresher of our comments policy, take a look here: http://www.thejournal.ie/comments-policy/

Thanks,
Sinead

Terry I have sympathy for what you’re saying but stamp duty is a transaction tax, not a property tax. It was just too politically risky for any party to lower that and introduce a real property tax. Which meant of course we blew all the transaction money fast and are now looking for fix the mess.

Yes, Joseph, you’re right. Refusing austerity measures designed to get the country back on its feet over time is EXACTLY how best to help those people. I know, let’s boycott income tax too. And motor tax. And anything else that we don’t feel like paying. And the government will then obviously magic up the money we NEED to ensure we can still pay things like benefits to the exact people you’re talking about.

THE wind up s on this is disgraceful .. It reminds me ot the abortion referendum years ago when the cloistered nons and brothers and priests were all wheeled vout to cast the no votes , yet they never came out to vote before. The trolkling is evidence of the fear of the do as youare told brigade.
I hope to see all of the people who wont pay tomorrow at thew garden of remembrance tomorrow, we will have another great day like we did last saturday …. Good night my friends and comrades.

nicola,
the boycott income tax, road tax etc is an old argument.

read other peoples posts on that, it explains it.

these other people im talking about are people who would be liable for this tax,
many of them are whats left of a decimated middle class.

good for u for paying it.

good on those who see this as a bridge too far.

Nicola, what do u make of enda kenny statement from 1994
about a household tax being morally wrong?
will u use the ‘we’re in a crisis’ argument?

cause if we’re in a crisis, shouldn’t EVERYONE help out?
Shouldn’t the G work for the minimum wage till the
‘crisis’ is over?
wouldn’t that send out a message to us peasants, no?
God knows most of them have earned at least a million+
during their careers as elected representatives.
Let them lead by example, let them dig deep too.

If the do that I will start to believe them.

oh and nicola,
ur right in one regard, the Gov is very good with magic and money,
only in their case they’ve mastered the Dis Appearing act.

Seroiusly, is the change people voted for in the election?
Is this the change Enda promised us?

@ Nicola
People are not just protesting because they are being told to pay this. People are protesting and not paying because it is unfair. The developers, the bankers, the corrupt politicians and their cohorts played a leading role in creating the mess that we are in and yet they are still walking around with the rewards they reaped from us . Why should someone who owns a house that they paid 300.000 for have to fork out 100 notes while at the same time people who could afford to spend a million+ are only expected to pay the same amount.
You have chosen to pay this charge and I wish you all the best and I do hope that in 5 years time when they send you out a bill for 1000+ you are still of the same frame of mind and are still in a position to pay. Are you forgetting that if James O’Reilly gets his way every person in this country will be putting their hands in their pockets to pay for universal medical charge which he is basing on the dutch model. And do you realise that if HE gets his way that will cost a family of four 2,500 euros (basing that price on what they currently pay in the Netherlands). Nor shoud you forget that we will be paying for water in the near future. So from where I’m standing, I can see every household in this country being worse off to the tune of 4 / 5000 euros in 5 years time. And that is why I am protesting. The only thing on that list I will have to pay for is the water charges and I could take on the roll of “I’m all right Jack” but I wont, and I will walk past Daniel O’Connell & Jim Larkin tomorrow, shoulder to shoulder with my fellow country men & women, and with my head held high in support of the working and midde classes who work hard to earn their money and keep this county going.

I’ve said several times, I understand why people disagree with this charge, and I respect their position completely. What I have a problem with is the fact that because I have a differing opinion and have chosen to pay, i’m considered by many to be a fool and a ‘sheep’.

Of course Enda Kenny called it morally wrong in the past – he was in opposition. It’s the job of the opposition to get elected, and generally they’ll say whatever it takes. That’s not right, but it’s a fact, and it’s true all over the world.

In my opinion, this government couldn’t do anything at all to please everyone. I agree that the €100 being the same for everyone is unfair – even the government are saying that – but I do believe, as I said before, that their strategy of moving towards a stable, fair property tax system is the right one. We should have had this all along. The fault for the huge amount of stamp duty we all paid lies with the government of the day – and that money is long gone.

I was swept up in the mood of the crazy years, and foolishly bought a second home in 2006 to rent out. I’m not a barrister, a banker, i’m not rich. I’m just normal. But I wanted something to fall back on financially and at the time property was it. Getting the mortgage was no problem at all. They practically handed it to us on a plate. It was the stupidest thing I ever did. The rent it brings in now covers around 50% of the mortgage, and to make up the difference I work full time and leave my kids every day. If I hadn’t bought that house I might be able to at least go part-time. I blame myself for that choice I made in 2006. I regret it every day. I may not be on the breadline (yet) but I am under pressure. But I can’t go through life blaming the ‘system’, or the bank who lent me the money, or the government who were in power, or the developers. I made the choice I made. And in doing so I contributed to the problem. So now, I paid my household charge (on both houses) to try and contribute to the solution.

nicola,

you say you are paying for 2 houses despite the hardship it is causing you,
and fair dues.
but you then go on to say
“And in doing so I contributed to the problem”

I’m confused by that. If you are paying off your debts, as is right,
how did you contribute to the problem? Your paying off your debts.

Not only now are you willing to pay off ur debts, you are paying off
private banking too.

You are also paying bertie aherns pension, flynns pension,
the FF TD’s who got their goodbye money and pensions,
a regulator who didn’t know his ass from his elbow,
how much did he get, AND he gets a pension,
the list goes on.
and not one politician or banker has been convicted of ANYTHING???

And you are in favour of heaping more misery on ordinary people,
who are picking up the tab for these w@nkers,
by adding yet another bill to them??

Lets get real here.
People are being broken,
Im close to being broken financially
and mentally by the sheer weight of it all.
It gets too frustrating for words
and i will not support any government who leads from the REAR.

If they want me to support them,
let them start with themselves first.
And Ive no more time or patience for their LIES and political games.

THE GAMES ARE OVER

Non-fools have only one house. Non-sheep didn’t pay the blackmail tax.

There is a terrible cruel streak in people here , a cold frigid hollowness . Thank goodness I am who I am , as I could not bear to be so callous. > Big day tomorrow . Can not wait :)

Nicola: good girl!

Nicola: “Refusing austerity measures designed to get the country back on its feet over time is EXACTLY how best to help those people.”

That’s not what they’re designed to do. Austerity measures do not recover an economy, save for a few exceptions when paired with other measures such as devaluation of currency, etc.

They are an ideological push from the currently center-right EU who’s ideology floats somewhere between corporatism and the Austrian school, a largely discredited school of economics.

This isn’t a conspiracy either there are any number of reasons why that is. Money at the bottom, generally, gets spent faster as opposed to being horded at the top. This helps keep local business alive, etc. basically in a recession there’s a reduction in spending overall, so if the state doesn’t spend either, we’re all fucked.

You have a right to your own opinion, but when you start saying things like this it doesn’t make it look like you’ve done any research of your own here. Austerity does not save anyone except the elite, and even that is questionable if you end up tanking the economy completely.

oh dear, steve is talking to himself again

Paying whatever I can afford is my way of attempting to ensure my children & grandchildren aren’t stuck with this bill too.

Nuala . Well said :)

Well tell you what Gary, I’m sure my father, who grow up in abject poverty and was sent out to work at 9 years of age and often worked 7 days a week on top of overtime worked Mon – Fri to keep food on his families table, not squander it in the pub, and who at 69 years of age is still working 37 hours a week, will explain the follies of your fathers ways to him, for you. My father will be out marching tomorrow for not just his flesh and blood, but also for your father, to have one less taxbill coming through his door every year aswell as through your childrens when their time comes.
So you sit back tomorrow and watch the footie

I love your bravey please tomorrow go into your local and spout the same bs as you done here tonight and i think you will avail of those local services the gov want you to pay for.Namely an ambulance.

@Gary: your generosity and dedication to our country brings a tear to my eye!

Well…… not sure about the man on the moon thing, but……..

9/11 was an inside job any half wit who looks it up would know that….but Gavin lives in his little naive middle managment bubble life. Landing on the moon who knows & who cares anymore. People are interested in killing one another these days to care about space anymore

and the governments NEVER lie to the people, do they gavin?

…and if you tell the truth to gobshite voters you won’t get elected.

so lie for the job then is it? you seem to be saying that those who voted for this government are gobshites? maybe you have something there…

yes gobshites when over 90% of the population believe in “sky fairies” you have to question their intelligence…

Believe in that shit and you’ll belive anything.

Now now mister middle management just because your life is very very boring no need to start acting all tough!

@ GAVIN

http://www.thejournal.ie/comments-policy/

John

will you stop with the personal attacks.

Please!!!
Will you just ignore this ignoramus called “youbetterpayup”.
He is not worth the consideration of a reply.

John, I am only a gobshite.

John. For god sake, well done for garnering support for the no payment cause.
Fear of being called a gobshite is really helpful. Get a grip man. People have paid due to fear, and a duty of doing what they feel is right. Not because they are gobshites.

i meant to say if 62 million euro was payed. sorry.

This sounds like a threat to assassinate a government minister. Expect a knock on the door from the boys in blue. You overstepped the mark I’m afraid. Foolish comment.

Pathetic comment of the weak!.

Not true, was replaced by the council tax.

True. The council tax is not a poll tax, and is used to fund local services.

I agree with you Nicola. I was firmly in the not paying camp tonight, however your reasoned arguments for paying the charge combined with many of the brain dead, gouger and abusive comments directed at you and others who tried to engage in a reasonable argument supporting paying convinced me that I am more comfortable in your camp than theirs. Good luck and well done to you.

It is a disgrace to all right thinking people. Thanks for the 100 euros. That will help my personal circumstances.

Thanks for those comments Silent P! :-)

So People are gutless and conservative because they pay tax to support the country to get out if this mess…how do you suggest we bring ourselves up to a level where we can fend for ourselves?? Suggestions please? Sound ecomonic ones now lads- not just jibberish airly fairy ones that are based on junior infant sums…

I know we need the money, but it would be easier to swallow if there was some kind of accountability. ANY kind. So far, the bankers, developers and politicians have f$%cked the country. And we have to help sort it out, but there has been NOOOO accountability. Not only is no one is in jail, no one has even lost their pension!!!!!

And what about next year, how many meals will you need to sacrifice than?

@Michael: did you ever hear the story “how to boil a frog”?

The premise is that if a frog is placed in boiling water, it will jump out, but if it is placed in cold water that is slowly heated, it will not perceive the danger and will be cooked to death. The story is often used as a metaphor for the inability of people to react to significant changes that occur gradually

Enough is enough. During the Haughey era people just lay down and took the pain. That’s not the to run a democracy. It’s time the Irish people stood up for themselves.

Who goes out for meals any more ? I Don’t drink and I had to give up smoking ( not a bad thing health ways) because I can not afford them.

@ Michael Murphy you write ” “this wee hole we got”. This ‘wee’ hole was created by the troika of Irish banks, autioneers, and builders…it’s their hole, they should fill it in! No offense Michael but if we fill in this hole they’ll find us another one to start working on.

And next year it will be the equivalent of a meal out for 12 and drinks for 12 etc etc. you see this is about not allowing our children be taxed for wanting a simple basic right. To live under a roof.

So are the people who are on the dole. Sponging off the state

You’re are right Pat. You are a troll youbetterpayup. Does your mommy know you’re online?

most council hose tenants pay as much rent as private rental accommodation, another example of our divisive society, blaming those less well off for your own misfortunes, so susceptible to propaganda, it would be funny if the sentiment wasn’t so rotten

people who live in council houses are clever. They dont have to pay a mortgage.

but they do pay rent, which is better? rent or mortgage? depends on how much of the mortgage you have paid but i would consider in general a mortgage is better

@youbetterpayup thank you for your lovely taxes, im counting them right now

Revolting Peasant

paying you’re local council rent every week is a lot cheaper than paying a mortgage to the bank

like i said, it depends on the mortgage, my sister lives in a council hose that she pays €620 a month for, i would be surprised now if there wasnt some mortgages at that price, my own mortgage is only €50 a month more than that

Okay people as I’ve continually stated I am with you all the way in your protest but this council tennants bashing has to stop! Why should people who live in mould infested flats and houses pay an extra 100 euros on top of their rent for the privilege of living with other peoples sewage coming up through their plug holes. Have any of you ever walked into you home and found it completely flooded because the the water and waste pipes are so old that they are starting to disintegrate. In my previous flat I was flooded on a weekly basis. Everytime the woman that lived over me turned her washing mahine on, my kitchen was flooded. Every time she had a shower the water ran down the walls in my hall and bathroom. It got to the stage where I actually just got her to use my washing machine, because all the council did was a patch up job everytime they came to fix the problem – a good oexample of council waste, why fix the problem whin you can just patch it up every 2 or 3 weeks. How many of you know how much rent the conucil charges for living in these dwellings. Do you realise that some people are paying up to 160euros a week to live in what can only be called hovels. And where do you think that the money the council collects in rent goes. Because let me tell you it is not on the upkeep of their dwellings and housing estates. It is spent on providing public amenities for EVERYONE. And as a matter of fact it has only been in the last8 years that the council have decided to start putting playgrounds in the flats (to replace the ones that they had removed 20 years previously). and during those 20 years a whole generation of kids had only busy roads and streets to play on.

So enough of the council tennant bashing please.

1 last point – you do realise that the majority of tennats who live in Council houses in Tallaght, Clondalkin, Ballymun, Finglas, Darndale, Cabra, Coolock etc are actually buying their houses from the council, while those of us living in their flats are not allowed to buy them. The councils were taken to court on the grounds of discrimination in relation to the sale of flats, but of course, the big wigs for the council won the case. So for future reference, get your facts straight before you start your diatribe.

The current government., yes, yes they are traitors, very good point.

If you can pay it now, wait till it rises, maybe your financial circumstances may change dramatically. Think of the bigger picture. This, like many or taxes will rise and get out of control. The wealthy getting wealthier and the poor get poorer. The picture of poverty ahead for many in my mind wreak of chaos.

But there will always be a few that believe utter us best to pay out, and continue to do this untill one day you wake up and realise just what corrupt policies you once agreed with, the very same ones that nay possuble keave you and your country in the gutter.

and what happens when u can’t pay it next time round, or it
could be the time after that?

If the NO campaign is broken, and next year or the year after you
can’t pay, what will u do?

I think you may be a bit short-sighted on this.

Scare tactics. A lien on a house! Documentation would cost far in excess of €100. Makes absolutely no common logical sense but then again we are talking about politicians so you are probably right

Sorry O’Reilly unfortunately you are wrong in your thinking. When they tried to introduce water charges in the 80s the majority didnt pay and won the battle. Unfortunately the minority who paid up were the losers and ended up out of pocket. They did not get a refund so a precedent has already been set.

Liens on land dont exist since the abolition on land certificates in January 2009 and to register a charge or judgement mortgage costs €125 in land registry fees alone, never mind the associated legal costs.

Sorry 2010 not 2009

And which countries can you tell me have this charge in place that are living with low umemployment, first class medical infrastructure, economic growth, trustworthy & competent government etc. By all means enlighten me!

I would just like to point out that when i lived in the UK I was paying council tax,(same thing as property tax), which was £320 per MONTH!

What’s your point?

True but most people prefer their politicians to tell them fairy tales about how we don’t need cuts and don’t need to pay taxes and sure ye can all have a job for life. No wonder Bertie got away with it for years.

Mike Doyle
go read something other than FG propaganda, educate yourself , and stop watchying RTE News too . they are great for putting a gov spin on things.

So did I Shirley, and was happy to, but council tax is so far from this charge it’s untrue. Council tax goes to your council not the govt. so you know it’s there for local services, do you trust our govt. to redirect it there? I dont? In the UK you get an itemised bill showing where it went. Some to the fire service, no €500 call out. Some to the police. Rest to the council. No €300 a year on bins, is included, no USC, lower VAT, this is my money for nothing, not their money for services we will never get!

Just look at the company you find yourself in (see comment below)

Amazing , Have you read any of the posts ? You come on here and repeat like you have no thoughts of your own , maybe you have been brow beatyen into this . and you are afraid , but Nicola you are being misled . Sadly so. Your government has let us all down . They have totally disrespected all of us , including their own ancestors.

QSorry but you are a fool. No problem paying double or triple that next year? When do you personally call enough is enough? Seriously, do you see any of the injustice going on in this country?

I am upset by this payment because I was let go from my job after 20 yrs and now back to college. I’m struggling just to tax my car and feed my son. Now I’m expected to pay this also, the same as the likes of tubbs, pat Kenny etc.
Do you see any fairness in that? I’m the victim as well as many ordinary middle class people but we keep getting screwed year after year. Why are you so quick to pay and as well as others here and are like cheser cats. What I say, shame on you people. Just because it’s ‘the law of the land’ doesn’t mean it’s right.

If a million people don’t pay, if it was a referendum or election that would mean something. But it’s all threats and bullying by Hogan and co. We elected them, who the fuck do they think they are bullying us!

it wnt stop at this household charge.the austerity will get much worse as the eu dictates to us. we need to make a stand now and say enough is enough. look at the figures released during d week that said in 2010 the top 10% of the wealthiest got richer and the bottom 10% got 26% poorer. there are other ways for d gov to get money. why didnt d bring in 1% wealth tax? and wait to introduce a proper fairer property tax? things are going to get much worse if we allow it to. i believe its selfish to do nothing now and do everyting we are told like sheep knowing full well the awful austerity coming down d line. knowing that by doing nothing now means condemning future generations to poverty. if we make a stand and still suffer by our own hands then so be it.but at least we would have an ounce of pride that we did our best.either way its austerity but id rather we remained irish and not yes sayers to the eu masters

likewise if people have chosen not to pay it , that is their choice. :)

We heard you the first time

Ehhhhh
Yes David

Thanks Joe – knew you would see sense in the end!

@David you think?Away with the fairies springs to mind.

Ehhhh
Yes David

Emmmmmmm – David

you should be a bit more concerned about the copyright law you are breaking and not concern your little mind with others who are willing to break the law with a clear moral conciensce.

Who needs to protest? Just don’t pay! That gets the message through!

trolololololol

@youbetterpayup

You’re either a troll, a child or absolutely spineless but I suspect you’re all three, now go get yourself a life, pop some more pimples and think about all the girls you’re never gonna get.

Still trolling i see where are your buddies?

I’m entitled to my opinion.

the real protest is the non payment, its the only one they will recognise or even understand

I don’t understand why the journal doesn’t get rid of people like this fool, obviously a troll and contributing sweet FA

You are not really a nice person . Are you . But I will leave you with your conscience .

“I’m entitled to my opinion”. You didn’t offer us your opinion, you asked a question. BTW do you have a shortcut for that answer? You seem to be pasting it left right and centre.

Susie

Do you think I honestly care what you say to me. No I dont.

Your bridge. Get back under it.