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Dublin: 15 °C Tuesday 18 June, 2013

Noonan: Referendum won’t be held just to ‘test public opinion’

The Irish government won’t hold a referendum on the EU ‘fiscal compact’ deal unless the Constitution requires one.

THE MINISTER FOR FINANCE has ruled out the prospect of Ireland holding a referendum on the proposed ‘fiscal compact’ eurozone treaty, saying Ireland had “no precedent” for holding an opinion when one was not needed.

Addressing reporters on his way into a minister of eurozone finance ministers in Brussels, Noonan said there had not been an occasion in Ireland where a referendum was run “simply to test public opinion”.

“Ireland is a parliamentary democracy,” Noonan said. “People elect a parliament to take decision.”

The minister added that Ireland would certainly hold a referendum if a constitutional amendment was required to ratify the treaty, but implied it was almost impossible to hold one otherwise.

While the Constitution does provide for a mechanism where bills “of such national importance” can be referred to the people in a referendum, that clause has never been invoked.

The mechanism – in Article 27 – requires one-third of TDs, and half of all Senators, to present a petition to the President, who then summons the Council of State and decides whether the legislation is of sufficient importance to be referred to the public.

Noonan would not be drawn on whether he felt the government could win any referendum campaign, commenting that it would be premature to discuss the matter before a final draft of the proposed treaty was published.

He added, however, that he would not “take the people for granted”.

Following today’s meeting – which is to put the finishing touches to the fiscal compact treaty – Noonan will tomorrow meet European economics commissioner Olli Rehn, to discuss the proposed substitution of the promissory notes for Anglo Irish Bank.

He will also travel to Frankfurt to meet ECB president Mario Draghi on the same topic.

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Comments (76 Comments)

  • Why does the media always refer to the Government winning a referendum , its as if we didn’t elect them and pay them to run the country in the best interest of its citizens .This separation of Government as some sort of entity which is competing with the electorate is probably the reason why they don’t listen to us , and view as an obstacle to overcome .Time for the taxpayers and electorate to remind them who pays them.

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  • It should be clear to Mr.Noonan at this stage that the irish people don’t trust the irish Government to act in their best interests and a referendum should be held to allow the people to decide on matters of such critical importance to the people.Let’s face it,the Government has gone back on every election promise they’ve made so why should we trust them when they say a referendum is not needed.

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  • Ha, I’m loving “Ireland is a parliamentary democracy, people elect a parliament to take decision”. In other words “We said what we had to to get elected because once we were in power the people would have no say in how things are run and we could line things up to suit ourselves”. I don’t know about anyone else, but I personally would like to see a referendum on the issue and the only reason they could have for not running one seems to be fear of defeat. Well guess what, if a majority decide they don’t want to keep buying the rubbish the EU is selling who is Michael Noonan to tell us we’re wrong? Oh, that’s right, a man with German bonds.

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  • Just shorten the headline to… Referendum wont be held……

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    • They’ll try alright but the nazi’s want this enshrined in the constitution… Adolf Merkle and smey sarkozy can’t get this from us without a referendum…… Baldy bondholder noonan and limp dick kenny must be pissed off at that constitution thingy getting in the way of their plan to completely ruin the country…. In fact I’m giving these gombeens far too much credit. There is no plan… They just career from one idiotic idea to the next. Only in this environment could a complete moron like cradker thrive…. The only difference between that twit and kenny is hair do and the votes of muck savages (I live in wicklow and so a country person. But seriously you’d have to be a muck savage to vote for that kenny gobshite)

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    • If this Government Does Not give us Referendum…. we will give them their marching orders they will have after all the lies and thievery they are taking from our income we need to stop them They will listen if we stand together and stand STRONG

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  • We elect TD s and a government to represent us as well as make decisions. Not to hand our sovereignty away with some state assets thrown in because of Anglo s bad debts..come on Noonan if you believe in democracy let the people have their say.

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  • This is outrageous. He clearly has nothing but utter contempt for the people of this country. He needs a reality check, and soon.

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    • The only way to reality check this monkey is to refuse to pay the charges…… These guys have nothing but utter contempt for the people… On the other hand they like being whores to the IMF…. If we don’t pay their household tax, water tax, broadcasting tax then they start to look very bad to their pimps and the promised jobs in europe after their booted out will disappear…. So Don’t Pay…..

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  • jimbo 23/01/12 #

    Noonan your full of sh1te as usual.

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  • Ciaro 23/01/12 #

    What a contemptuous arrogant snivelling little creep this man had turned out to be.

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    • No change from when he lost the general election as head of fine gael. Wtf he thinks he’s doing back in politics is beyond rational comprehension. Tosser should get lost. Oh wait, I forgot he used he’s wifes illness as a sob story to win the hearts of some foolish electorate…pathetic.

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  • now lads you have been told now get back there to filling out your household water bin tv ect charge forms and let me get on with the job in hand because teacher knows best.

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  • Ireland us a parliamentary democracy. The people elect the parliament to make decisions. Well, translating all this from government newspeak, the Minister for Cruelty is affirming that once the electorate has done its bit, the electorate can be safely ignored. That is what passes for Irish democracy. The people elect the government into power and the government promptly removes power from the people.

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    • I wonder if enough signatures could be gathered on a petition to show that the majority of registered voters oppose signing the fiscal compact could the government ignore it and if they did would they not then have lost their legitimacy to govern?

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    • There is one doing the rounds Mark. I’ve signed it. Ill scout around and link it on here for you if I can find it. Think it was called “one care” or something. Sorry

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  • Aydo 23/01/12 #

    Despicable liar of a person.
    Fortunately he’s very replaceable.

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  • Why wasn’t this clause used when they guaranteed 400 billion of banks debts!!! I’m sure the people of this country would of liked to have some say in what ruined this country.

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  • Peter 23/01/12 #

    Not holding a referendum just to let people have their say, is a smart move. I was gonna say your first smart move but ye made many pre election.My god we voted for a man who didn’t have the balls to face V Brown, who is a true Irish man

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  • Excuses, Excuses, Excuses!

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    • Indeed, but we must be mindful of the fact that people do get what they vote for. If the majority of an island are naive enough to believe such obvious lies and promises of traitors, collectively you must also accept the consequences. Now, how you react when you realize how spectacularly duped you have been, that is where you character as a people is tested. The world is fascinated by your indifference and care free attitude to all of these recent happenings, it would seem you do not even feel pride or humiliation. However, I believe every human being and spirit has its breaking point and that soon Ireland’s sons and daughters will stand up for the sake of their children. Your government on the other hand, believe you to be complete and utter fools willing to bend over and take everything unjustly given to you.

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    • @justdieter
      You speak as if there was a viable alternative.

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    • Very true statement but I’m only 16, I’ve always had an interest in computers, aviation and politics. I’m pursuing a career in computers and if they introduce fees or change our corporate tax rate I could have to move foreign in one case even just to get qualified. I’m thinking of doing my CCNA soon and since they want to be a nation known for what that involves and the background to it then they need people like me but yet they’re pushing us possibly out. They hit self-destruct long ago if they want a technological and tourist economy as is one of their claims. I know that for a fact especially RE:Computers. One major complaint i have is that i get better internet in Turkey than I do in Ireland, they need to explain that one.

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    • There is Liam. What would you do if money lenders were knocking on your door looking for your money, leaving you with no money to pay to bring your family to the doctor, no money to educate your children, no money to get your grandparents off the hospital trolly, no money to pay your mortgage or rent, etc. You’d tell them to feck off. A nation is a very large family. That’s what.

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    • Liam a viable alternative at the time of the IMF would’ve being south bank who where considering giving loans out to Europe to spare them the IMF as world bank specialize in picking up the pieces after the IMF have destroyed countries in South America. The fact they said this around our bailout should’ve being a huge hint saying “Don’t use IMF”. If you don’t want to explore that option then you can try World Bank an IMF-Alternative. There are alternatives if you look around the internet for all of 10 minutes. Seems our politicians are very impatient men and women.

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    • Just to be clear, by ‘no alternatives’, I was referring to whom we could elect.

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    • Liam SF,ULA,IND,etc and abolition of them and giving volunteer local committees the powers to run the affairs of the towns would be an option. Sometimes the alternative is no alternative, think about it sometime.

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    • correction on reply to Liam i meant south bank not world bank in its first appearance.

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    • @justdieter I think your right, tipping point has almost been reached!! And I also think that there is a definite world wide social consciousness happening, people are only waking up now.

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    • @Gill I could not agree with you more.

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    • Oh feic. Sssshhhh lads

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    • @Reada – SF and ULA are NOT a viable alternative. The economic principles of these parties are for the birds. Could you imagine Higgins in power. Every workplace would be unionized and every commercial enterprise nationalized.

      That would mean more public servants and more unions.

      Is that what you really want?

      PS – this is not a defense for the existing shower of spineless muppets

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    • Paul when did I ever say they where viable? and I believe I suggested abolition of the whole system did I not?

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    • Paul I’m all about balance. Socialism best suits how I feel about society. But wouldn’t you prefer a fairer social system for everyone? The hard work we do now for our families is only part of a small picture. The bigger picture of social change and fairness would provide a better Ireland for our children as adults and our future grandchildren. An Ireland they will want to stay in. 

      Ignoring those on the margins and not including them in the whole community  is not sustainable in reality and is a root cause in the rise in crime.  People who feel disconnected don’t care. They have to feel like they are included. 

      That’s not the country I want my family growing up. You can’t protect your family once they’re out in the big bad world. What you have to do is look at the big picture. 

      Change has to be looked taking every citizen into account. Not just the system. The system is meant to work for its citizens and vice versa. 

      There should be no one on long term dole. Look around your community. Plenty work to be done. Everyone has to feel included. We’re basically one big family. Sh!t. Now you’ll start calling me a commie. :-(

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    • @Karl – comment was directed at Reada the commie :-)

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    • Okay i was just saying as i was the only one to mention those parties specifically and Réada are you honestly telling me you’d let the whole dail be in government together? I wouldn’t be staying in Ireland for that train wreck. Just imagine FG,FF AND LAB all in one government, it’d be the biggest train wreck in decades if not centuries.

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    • Karl. If the Celtic tiger party is over why not party whips too. Not against parties per se as not all the electorate are that interested and some need an ethos on which to judge a candidate. Independents could be more involved and we could see a government by consensus. I’m an idealist. What can I say. And stay Karl fgs. I’m interested in what MDH has planned for our republic…

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    • Réada the independents would make a difference but they’d be a minority so no matter how much weight we gave them they’d be bullied into doing things. As for the president he hasn’t lived up to his potential and needs to restore some confidence the public had for him I would say. And if you meant stay here on this site but I’m hoping you meant say instead , I’ve exams inside and outside school as well as homework I can’t stay on one site all day. I need to do study you know.

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    • I meant in Ireland Karl. Now do your homework I’m warning you…

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    • I want to stay in Ireland but with some of the proposals I’ve saw if they happen I won’t be able too and its not an optional thing as you and Noonan think. Furthermore don’t treat me like a baby, of course I’ll do the homework.

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    • You’re no baby Karl. Wish to jaysus my 16 year old was as on the ball as you. :D

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    • Okay thanks and thank you very much, I’m sure they’ll get there eventually.

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    • Paul if joe higgins was to try and f**** this country up any better than the last govermantor the one we have now he could not do it ,i think the time has come to give them the chance

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  • I just hope Merkel and Sarkozy are stupid to demand a constitutional change in THEIR new treaty. If a treaty is put to them I think the Irish electorate will do Europe and the World a favour by beginning the EU’s political downfall. The economic downfall, as well all know, has already started.

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  • Utter contempt for the opinions of those who voted for him.

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  • Toureag 23/01/12 #

    Can’t believe Weirdo Michael Noonan is in news again! I wish he should keep a low profile since his stupid comment about emigration!

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  • Would there be enough TD & Senators to get a petition to the president asking for a referendum if needed?

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  • No Mr Noonan…a referendum won’t be held because ye’ll hav yer arses handed to ye on a plate…so stop spinning and bulls**ting please!

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  • You get what your voted for folks. Maybe now you will all finally understand FG, FF and Labour are all cut from the same cloth. They only have their own interests at heart not the citizens of Eire.

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  • Noonan has been handed this big bucket of sh*t by the FFers and is running around trying to find a place to empty it.
    Not on our heads baldy!

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  • CHICKENSHIT!

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  • He knows what our answer would be if we were allowed to vote and he is scared!

    What happened to democracy?

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  • Why should he listen to what the people have to say? while ganster thieves (read politicians/bankers) have committed the greatest heist in Irish history and still living free in the laps of luxury — at your expense! When he is ejected from office he, and his collaborators, will continue to live the life of Reilly and, surprise, surprise all at your expense! To the people of Ireland I say you’ve been hoodwinked, screwed, conned, call it what ye like and it ain’t gonna stop………. unless YOU stop it! So I say again why should he listen to you masochistic muppets? And anyway, as a bondholder, the salary you pay is peanuts to him!

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  • This government won’t hold a referendum if they can find any con to get out of it. They know they are in for a real lesson in democracy. There complete mismanagement there cowardice and naiveté in there dealings with IMF eu ecb, they have broken almost every promise they made. It is now time for the Irish people to tell them what we really think of there pathetic lies. It’s time for ireland to stand proud once again, to tell the bankers (gamblers) that we won’t be paying back ther lost stakes, they know if you gambol there are two potential outcomes you win or you loose. They lost so like any punter they will just have to accept it. Irish people are not fools, so this so called government will have to listen to what we are saying. A quick look at what happened when Iceland said no to the gamblers ( bankers) “not syntax error Iceland knew they were dealing with gamblers, our genius politicians still think they are dealing with bankers” iceland were not the first to say no and we won’t be the last. So Ireland should now lead the way in Europe. We.have great history, any one remember the empire. It’s time to stand up to our corrupt politicians both at home and Europe, time to tell them the gravy train has been derailed

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  • Dear moderator, Why was my comment removed today? It was the first one made? I said the gov was to represent us, not rule us. You re forcing us into a federal europe and giving away state assets against the will of the majority in my opinion.. Let democracy decide..

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  • This guy is losing it and has forgot which way is up, he’s gone all ECB on us and every time he’s pay old debt Anglo with new debt bailout the markets are never gonna give ya Money ,

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  • Yes, Ireland may be a parliamentary democracy and we vote in leaders to make decisions. But correct me if iam wrong. We vote in leaders based on the pre election promises that are made. We dont vote in leaders to change their minds once they get elected. seems to me that this style of election needs to be addressed and changed. Think about it one person in charge of a whole country. I know they have advisors and all that but at the end of the day it falls on one man.

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  • We don’t hold referenda in this country just because some people want to throw a wobbly about things they don’t agree with. We hold referenda in this country in order to change the Constitution. I’m not impressed by the proposed fiscal treaty because, as currently drafted, it is little more than an excuse to cover Angela Merkel’s eventual retreat on eurobonds and is not necessary in itself. However, unless the fiscal treaty actually requires a change to our Constitution it should be left to the Oireachtas to ratify. The government did not put the budget to the people in a referendum and that had a much greater impact on people’s lives than the proposed fiscal treaty.

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  • “Referendum won’t be held just to ‘test public opinion’

    This is not about public opinion Noonan, this is about giving the people a say in what direction you and your spineless cohorts are taking OUR country.

    Reply

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