Inflation might destroy it though. If it is spread over say 50 years. We’ll be blessed in that we can pay the money that we don’t owe, for a defunct bank to bondholders that bought the debt at about 20p in the pound.

There really is no level of disdain and contempt that is too much for the likes of Brian Cowen and Brian Lenihan. Not a sparrow feather’s weight* of good in either of them.

*No idea where that random image came from.

francis dont wean to upset you ,but you say let them face the full rigours of the law ,ff appointed all the judges they are their buddies they are not going to convict them they are covering for them.

the politicians are already on the euro train and have been for years … the gravy train

Think you are in dream world there Kevin. The ‘Yes’ vote will win by near on a 2 to 1 majority and correctly so in my opinion.

Mark, promissory notes are nothing to do with bondholders. It is clear from many of the comments that many people do not know the technicalities of the notes. It is about writing off money that was printed by the Irish central bank. Cancelling this money is required by the ECB under rules agreed years ago.

Tom, voting no will have no bearing on this. if we vote no we are just cutting off an avenue of future funding which we may or may not need in the future!

Karl, I would be quite happy to cut off this funding. We are borrowing money from the EU to pay back what Anglo / AIB owe to German and French banks. We could easily bridge our actual non banking deficit with IMF loans.

In fairness it wasn’t just Lenihan. It was foisted on him by the ECB refusing to let a euro bank crash. It was devised by Civil Servants, supported by FF, FG and the Greens and renewed by FG/LAB. So all of those must take their share of the blame.

I hope you are alone Gill. ;) Write it off I say. Stop paying our real earned money to a defunct bank that was propped up by computer generated unbacked funny money.

@ Gill Jones

The promissory notes CAN be written off… Noonan has already burnt € 5 billion worth of bondholder junk last year. He has the opportunity to go further. He’s too busy capitulating to the illusion that we can continue when clearly we’re heading down the path of Greekification.

This is not sovereign debt – it’s private debt… It CAN be burned by the Gov’t. However, if FG / LAB insist on taking this path, by 2016, the national debt of Ireland will be well over €200bn and even if we were to balance the books by then, get the economy growing and start making interest repayments of €3bn a year, it would still take decades before we even begin to start repaying the actual capital loan itself. Voting no will force the government to reverse this.

It’s wrong to say that the Anglo debt is private debt. It certainly started out life as private debt but that horse has long bolted. Anglo owes the money to the Central Bank who in turn owes the money to other European Central Banks. As such, it’s cannot “disappear” at the stroke of a pen without the agreement of same Central Banks.

#SMcB, but it doesn’t make sense to borrow more money from the ECB to pay back a loan owed to them in the first place! Madness!

@ Gill

But why should we (citizens) be paying at all? Ireland took a total of near €95 billion (cf Constantin Gurdgiev) to prevent a domino effect in other EU banks when Anglo & other Irish banks went bankrupt. At the insistence of the EU & ECB authorities (notably, the IMF were not insisting, but they are only ‘minor’ partners of the Troika). The integrity of the Euro banking system was not solely our responsibility – the ECB itself bears the majority imo. It knew full well that rediculous sums of money were being channeled thru’ Ireland. WhistleblowerIRL, a risk manager at a major Dublin based bank told their CEO & the regulator what was going on. They knew a property (land) bubble was forming & could have stopped it.

Furthermore, the ECB is a currency +issuing+ central bank. The money for the promissory notes was created out of thin air. There is nobody whatsoever to be ‘reimbursed’. The notes could be torn up tomorrow at no cost to anyone. We are paying to preserve the fiction that banking & a fiat currency operates like a ‘gold standard’, & to preserve a monetary system that funnels wealth to the top few percent at our expense.

It is up to citizens to ‘push back’. We will not be ‘gifted’ anything by the EU elites or our own political leaders – they all look to the powerful vested interests of the financial sector.

If there are ‘discussions’ taking place (unlikely imo), it will be because of one reason only – they fear that Ireland may vote ‘no’ to the fiscal compact & demand full & comprehensive reform of the flawed & corrupt currency & financial system. Which might also encourage other countries, suffering needlessly, to do likewise.

Vote NO in the referendum to demand politics serves the interests of the majority citizens, not the elite few.

I will never believe them Suzy Chester but then again we all live in hope

Typo-wok should read WOKE

its obvious dylan your one of the fg followers would not trust anybody from this goverment they are to corrupt

He is not doing a good job, real people are suffering, I am one of them. Iceland has a much more successful model. Check out this story on Bloomberg your missing the point.

Icelandic Anger Brings Debt Forgiveness in Best Recovery Story

Completely aggree Dylan. He is a hard worker who is trying his best for the Irish people. I really believe that. If the people on this site were as dedicated Ireland might actually see some results.

I agree with you Dylan. He buried his wife a couple of weeks ago and he is still seems to have the countries interests at the fore front of his mind, at what has to be a very difficult time. I really have no problem understanding people disputing the best or worse ways of handling the economy, but the personal attacks say much more about the people making them, than there intended targets. I am not a FG supporter or a supporter of any party, but when I listen to Noonan, I get a bit of hope, because he seems honest and not afraid to call it as it is. (rare qualities in a politican)

Typo
And we are left with a bunch of soft choir boys at the helm.

I was out for a meal in Galway friday night…. All around people were eating, spending money having a laugh…. a long way from the depression ridden streets you describe. Let Noonan at it… Firmly believe he is doing the best for Ireland….Unless of course you feel you could better???? Thought so….journal.ie the home of journalists and commentators who do nothing but bitch and moan…

Yes, I also believe in the tooth fairy

Paid back to who?

There is no-one, person, corporation, government or taxpayer at the other end receiving anything – because it wasn’t ‘borrowed’ from anyone. It was Euros created on the currency +issuing+ central bank’s keyboard, out of thin air.

And guess what? After Irish taxpayer +you+ has struggled, scrimping & saving on your food bills, kids clothes etc. so that with your labour you can give money to the government to ‘repay’ the ECB, what actually happens? All that happens is that some ‘liability’ account in a computer data file will have a smaller number attached to it.

Literally, if the money was given to the ECB as paper notes, it could be torn up, thrown in a bin & torched.

Nothing ‘real’ was ‘borrowed’ from anyone. But to ‘save’ the investors in a defunct, non ‘systemic’, bankrupt bank, at the EU authorities ‘insistence’, WE, who had no responsibility for Anglo’s failure, are paying with the fruits of our ‘real’ productive labour.