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Dublin: 10 °C Sunday 19 May, 2013

Column: Public and political attitudes to gardaí have to change

Following the murder of Garda Adrian Donohoe, it’s time to take stock of the contribution gardaí make to society, writes Steven Wrenn.

Steve Wrenn

THE BRUTAL ASSASSINATION of Detective Garda Adrian Donohoe came as a numbing and devastating shock to Irish society. It doesn’t matter what cause, if any, the cold-blooded killers of this brave man align themselves to, but the fact is they are evil thugs with no regard for human life.  The massive outpouring of support shown by members of the wider society in Ireland towards An Garda Siochana and the Donohoe family is a thankful acknowledgement that the majority of people in our society still hold our gardaí  in high regard.

Station closures

The lack of understanding and empathy shown by my political colleagues in relation to the closing of Garda stations is very disappointing. The failure to take into account the public’s feelings in relation to station closures highlights the fact that those politicians and civil servants involved are detached from reality.

The reality being that losing their local station creates fear in people’s lives. Knowing that you have a police station near you is the same as knowing that you have a local doctor or that the hospital is five miles away, and you know what route to take should you need to go. It’s the same as knowing that you have family around you – should you need to call on them like we all do from time to time. It is perfectly understandable why people in rural communities feel unsafe and let down. Psychologically, people felt safe by merely knowing that their local village had a Garda station in it, despite the fact that it may not have been manned on a full-time basis.

Given the difficult financial circumstances we find ourselves in, I have no doubt that some stations needed to be closed and others merged, but failing to clearly explain how gardaí can respond to calls within an appropriate time frame following the various closures indicates that the politicians involved have been consumed with making monetary savings at all costs – rather than balancing their economic objectives with suitable ways of reassuring people that their safety will not be affected. How can the Government compare the savings made by station closures to the effect that these closures have on people’s mental health and quality of life? There should be no comparison: our citizens’ quality of life should always come first.

Public attitudes to gardaí

Unfortunately over the last 10 to 15 years certain elements within our society have caused a slow erosion of the moral authority once commanded by our gardaí. Continuous and unrelenting negative remarks and commentary by these people about the gardaí has in turn been adopted by certain elements in the Irish media.

Nobody is disputing the fact that very small rogue elements within the gardaí have been guilty of certain wrongdoings in recent years.  The establishment of the Garda Síochána Ombudsman Commission (GSOC) to investigate complaints was a device that was welcomed by all, including the gardaí – as its independent status showed that there would be no question about the vindication of gardaí when they were cleared of any wrongdoing.

However, since the establishment of GSOC, a pattern has emerged in how the media have reported when GSOC have been called in to investigate certain incidents. For example, various articles and broadcasts in recent years have been worded in a way that automatically insinuated wrongdoing on the part of the gardaí involved. Where were the follow-up media reports to show the countless incidents where gardaí were subsequently vindicated by GSOC? Answer – nowhere, because it has become fashionable to only print articles or broadcast reports that criticise the gardaí, as opposed to complimenting them.

Irish society needs to realise that continuous negative sensationalist publicity, driven by certain elements, has affected morale across the gardaí, but – more importantly – has slowly impacted on society’s view of the force. The savage murder of Garda Donohoe was clearly carried out by thugs with no respect for the gardaí. Who else does society expect to take on these thugs and put them behind bars so we can all feel safer?

Our police force thrived for years because of the close relationship its members had with the community. The Garda organisation was formed as an unarmed service, and gardaí relied on their officers being deeply rooted within communities and building mutual trust with those it served.  It’s time the negative commentary about our gardaí STOPPED, and that more recognition be given to the fact that these brave men and women are prepared to lay down their lives to protect us.

Roles and recruitment

We constantly hear in the media from my colleagues in the political world that we have no money for garda recruitment. The last time there was a gap when no garda recruits were in training at the Garda College was from 1987 to 1989. We have now exceeded that time frame. Even if Government were to make a modest investment in recruiting a mere 100 trainees per year until the overall recruitment embargo is lifted, it would still not outweigh the number of guards retiring each year.

We must constantly review legislation from all over the world with a view to introducing new and creative ways to deal adequately with criminals. There is speculation that one of the suspects for Garda Donohue’s murder was on bail at the time of the killing. Currently, gardaí have no power to arrest a person who has breached their conditions of bail, unlike in the UK.

Gardaí should be given the power to issue ‘fines on the spot’ notices for public order offences to free up our courts to deal with more serious crimes. Once a public order offender’s identification is verified, they could be sent on their way to look forward to a fine in the post the following week.

Prisons need to be tougher experiences for serious criminals and not be places where they can coordinate drug trafficking. If the taking of liberty is what criminals are sentenced to then let us ensure that their liberty is taken. We should also look at more community-based initiatives so that offenders can be put to work and make a positive contribution to society where appropriate.

The future

We have seen how effective ‘zero tolerance’ policing was in New York City. It’s time that we dumped our sure its grand attitude and got tough with our criminals. Members of An Garda Siochana have nothing to fear from the Garda Ombudsman or their senior officers if they work within their powers and within the law. If we start now with a zero tolerance policy, in five years we will have a safer country with safer communities. Garda morale will improve, and gardaí will receive the respect they deserve for putting their lives on the line to protect us. Our streets and communities will be safer places.

We should consider asking Europe to fund some of our Garda Units. Specialist Units like the Garda National Drugs Unit, Garda Bureau of Fraud Investigation and Anti-Terrorist Units should be funded by Europe. Terrorism and Drug trafficking and the financing of same is an international problem.

Possessing a law degree or having a background in policing doesn’t necessarily mean you have all the skills required to be a Minister for Justice. Having a thorough understanding of how society works and how policing works is by far the best possible qualification. Until we have a government that is able to prioritise the impact that crime has on our society, rather than being consumed with making financial decisions, we will never have safe communities.

Hopefully the tragic death of Detective Garda Adrian Donohoe will not be in vain but will result in simple changes being made to give the garda organisation the strength – and respect – it needs and deserves to keep us all safe.

Steve Wrenn is a Labour Councillor for the Dublin North West Constituency. He is also the Peace Commissioner for the City of Dublin and surrounding counties.

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Comments (74 Comments)

  • It would help if the Minister for Justice would refrain from peddling blatant lies relating to Garda Morale. Stevie Wonder could see through his bulls*it.

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  • A well written and positive article, rather than just complain about things Steve Wrenn has made some suggestions for how to improve things, practicle measures worthy of consideration. My only critiques are: 1/ The suggestion of fines for Public Order, a system already in place for minor Public Order offences. Whether on the spot or court imposed, fines just do not work and are an ineffective way of penalising people. Many criminals never pay fines, get a small custodial sentence on foot of a warrant, walk in the door of prison at midday and out again in time for evening tea. Unless measures for recovering fines from social welfare payments, or denying social welfare to career criminals is implemented, they laugh at such measures and carry on regardless. 2/ If someone is in breach of bail a Garda can apply to a court for a warrant to arrest based on evidence of those breaches, or at a subsequent court date can object to continuing bail based on evidence of those breaches.

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  • Very well written.

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  • How many of you Garda bashers have signed up for the Garda Reserve to put your own stamp on policing in this country? It’s open to all of you to see if you can do better. You sit behind your keyboards and have all the answers to run the country but I bet not one of you have the balls to police the streets. You can enjoy your peaceful existence because these men an women are being shot, stabbed, beaten, slashed and abused by people who would tear you armchair heroes to shreds were
    It not for them. The Gardai are human beings who bleed and feel pain the same as the rest of us. And when you get stopped for your road traffic offence may have just told someone that their family member won’t be coming home or picked up pieces of a mutilated human body moments before. They are literally the thin blue line between us and the savages and they aren’t out to ‘catch’ people. So if you have all the answers and think you can do better, join the Garda Reserve and get first hand experience. Then come back here and spout a load of rubbish because the Guard wasn’t friendly enough! Jokers!

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    • Love to sign up but I am one of the “undesireables” precluded from joining AGS Reserve because of my profession.Ironically you could be an ex criminal from outside Ireland and could join up no bother,but if you have a certain job in Ireland you need not apply.Hows that for discrimination???

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  • The most balanced view I have read in quiet a time. Fair play, you got it spot on.

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  • The poor perception that the public have of the Gardai is unwarranted. Attitudes do need to change especially Alan Shatters! People say that the Irish constantly lie down and take what’s given to them. The Gardai are taking a stand against the savage cuts proposed and people moan about that. I for one hope that they don’t allow public perception of them to deter them from this course of action. Regardless of your attitude towards them the Gardai still slog it out with limited resources (clapped out cars, faulty radios etc). They deserve more than they are getting.

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  • Stop trying to come across as intelligent Keith, your comments a few minutes ago about the gay community, showed you up as being both idiotic and hate filled.

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    • Naes if you’re going to preach about intelligence to me at least do it appropriately by hitting the reply button. If you’ve an opinion to express against homosexuality again it would be appropriate to place it agains’t the correct article. The only one being idiotic and hate filled here is you.

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    • Naes if you’re going to preach about intelligence to me at least do it appropriately by hitting the reply button. If you’ve an opinion to express against homosexuality again it would be appropriate to place it agains’t the correct article. The only one being idiotic and hate filled here is you.

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    • Naes if you’re going to preach about intelligence to me at least do it appropriately by hitting the reply button. If you’ve an opinion to express against homosexuality again it would be appropriate to place it agains’t the correct article. The only one being idiotic and hate filled here is you.

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    • Oh and take that in triplicate too. Thanks Journo ha. Me coming across as intelligent. Me mates will love that one :)

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    • Keith
      I agree with you . I would never consider you as anywhere close to being intelligent. Good comment.

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    • Thanks Richard. Your faceless keyboard warrioring means a lot to me. I’m just waiting for James Attley or one of my other regular stalkers to engage in some decent discourse. You’ve been very quiet tonight. Hope nobody has upset you.

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  • When there is a Garda presence, nobody will ever know what crime they prevented solely based on the Garda’s presence alone

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  • Speaking a lot of truth……

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  • Yes, lets start a zero tolerance policy, by first applying it to crooked politicians and bankers.

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  • Well written, but as with any article concerning An Garda Siochana there are always the usual Garda bashing individuals who are more interested in verbal attacks rather than actually engage in debate.

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  • Well said Stephen. Nice one pal.

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  • I would like to know those who make or it’s found out to have made false allegations against Gardai and after these complaints are investigated by GSOC
    Are these people prosecuted- the only reason I’m asking is that I heard they are not- and when the Garda is found not to have done anything wrong thats the end of it
    If that’s the case how is that a fair system-
    And before anyone comes on and says that’s not the case bring proof – cause I looked into it and can’t find a single case

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    • If a complaint is found to be vexatious there is nothing GSOC can do to prosecute that person.

      The reasoning behind that at the time was to not put people off making complaints for fear of possible conviction.

      Also to point out to people that Gardai can be investigated for actions/incidents that occur when we are off duty. The only job in this country that I know that does.

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  • You’re a moron

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  • The political attitudes to all 24/7 public servants have to change not just Garda, nurses, carers in disability sectors also. Find your pay cuts somewhere else Dublin north west politician.

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  • ACAB – normally tattooed on fingers of Lowlifes & JAILBIRDS ???? Is that u ?

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  • Well written but wrong I will start to respect garda when they treat u with some respect then they will get it back..also stop hiring. gaa loving. dubarry wearing. Elites of Irish class.and start recruiting those who have first hand knowledge and experience of how devastating crime in peoples life’s..people from lowest social classes..weird thing anyone ever seen a garda with a traveller background?…yet we have other ethnic minoritys graduating..look Im not saying they are all bad ..but they have a lot of bad apples..

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  • This probably won’t be a popular comment but I actually think we’re far too deferential when it comes to the Gardaí.

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    • I rarely agree with you Petr but your right in this case, there is a difference between taking on board the advice of the guards on board and allowing them to become a law onto themselves.
      Press coverage of police, both positive and negative, is necessary to maintain standards. Wrenn should look at the views expressed on this topic so far, even dispite all of the “negative” press that he alleges the guards have had to put up with for the last ten years, most people support the actions of GRA/AGSI.
      I have no doubt that Councillor Wrenn will not be the only minor politician to try and boost his profile during the present pay dispute.
      We have to ask ourselves if we want a politicizied Garda Siochana were, like in the US, civilian oversight and media scrutiny was been broken down by the need for politicians to court police representatives’ endorsements to be elected.

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    • @ Petr, I agree. All authority should be accountable. Despite the immense popular support for an Garda Siochana, it is a force which is far from unblemished.

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    • Name me one institution in the entire world which is unblemished as you put it?
      Accountability for policing in Britain and Ireland is already among the highest if not the highest in the world while career criminals hide behind laws that are supposed to protect decent people from them. Anyone who wants that extended further I would strongly question their motives for saying so, probably Bourne out of some petty gripe would be my guess

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    • John Drennan, the innocent should have nothing to fear from accountability, are you suggesting that more accountability would be a bad thing?

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    • I’m suggesting that gardai are in the newspapers and facing disciplinary action every time their accused of doing anything untoward and if they are subsequently found to be innocent the media interest vanishes.
      The Irish courts require a heavy burden of proof to convict a criminal but the perception of gardai is tarnished by a mere accusation, I once read on another site about a guard accused of assault who had 5 previous ombudsman complaints, it didnt state however whether any of these complaints were upheld. I would assume that none of them were because no details were disclosed of these complaints. That is media making suggestions and creating perceptions. Ie assumption of guilt. No other member of society can be reported on like this before being convicted.
      Gardai are investigated by an independent body, how can they be more accountable than they already are?
      Every person in Ireland has the right to privacy and the right to presumption of innocence until proven guilty. Gardai deserve the same

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    • Even An Garda Siochana must be subject strictly to the law because it has the capacity to abuse the law. The litany of Garda abuses is substantial. An example was the Garda who was filmed severely laying into a street protestor and got off scot free despite the evidence.

      Cameras and other devices are now more of a deterrent and this will help to inhibit the minority of bad ones in the force.

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    • I don’t know the example your referring to Peter but I doubt you know how the matter was dealt with or if any complaint was ever even made.
      I agree with your other points and believe that that is already the case

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    • And they are given that same protection, there is little difference between GSOC investigating an alleged crime or breach of discipline and the Garda Siochana investigating an alleged crime, the press is free to report on it as they see fit with in the bounds of privacy law.
      In fact a guard who is cleared of wrong doing by GSOC is more thoughly vindicated then if he was investigated by some IA branch of the guards because people wouldn’t see it as guards investigating guards.
      That guard you mentioned, did those prior investigations in anyway affect his career? And remember, GSOC only follows up on a complaint if it believes it has some merit.
      I’d have to question the motives of anyone who believe in reducing the level of oversight a member of the force is subject to, as the innocent have noting to fear.
      All citizens should be equal before the law, wheather they are alleging wrong doing against another member of the public or a member of Garda Siochana.

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    • I refer to my earlier petty gripe comment.
      You’re giving a personal opinion that a guard is more vindicated If they are acquitted.
      I disagree with that completely, when a guard is acquitted all it leads to is people like yourself complaining that they are above the law and assuming they were guilty anyway.
      I have no idea how that guards career was affected but I’d be pretty sure his life was affected by being reported in such a way in the community he came from. Reporting on anybody based on assumption is unfair and shouldn’t happen in a free society and only serves to appease people who have an agenda against them, like yourself perhaps?

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    • My only agenda is that justice is done and seen to be done, the fact that you have not adressed my points but my character suggest that you have no good counter point to my arguments.
      You say when a guard is acquitted (and that is a poor choice of words on your part as only a court can acquit people and most complaints are dropped by GSOC as they find no evidence of any wrong doing on the part of the guard), that some people (and you accused me of being one of those people, without evidence) believe that he is guilty anyway, but the same complaint could be made of ordinary who are acquitted by the courts.
      As I’ve said before I have to question the motives of anyone looking for less oversight of policing because, as I’ve said before, the innocent have nothing to fear.

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    • @ John Drennan, Garda Donal Corcoran, “robocop”, Garda Keegan and many others.

      Those who enforce the law must strictly adhere to the law and be held to a high standard. Abusevof authority should be unacceptable. Many Gardai would agree with that. Some, sadly, disgrace their honourable uniform and sully the reputation of the force.

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    • I read your comment questioning my motives already and im confused because I never called for less accountability but others on here are calling for more of it.
      Gardai obtain more public scrutiny than any other job in this country and deserve the same treatment as anyone else from the press when they are accused of wrongdoing which even the very best and most honourable of them are on a daily basis.
      2 things
      1/ acquit is the right word because I was referring to the courts
      2/ you questioned my character in your first comment and then you question my character again for questioning your character!! You should do stand up…really ;)
      I’ve made my point and am saying it with the best of intentions and not to protect the guilty as you suggested

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    • You want the media to be heavily restricted in what it reports about GSOC investigate, that is making the guards less accountable to the public then the average citizen who is before the courts.
      Justice must be done and be seen to be done, other wise the state and the forces of the state, of which the guards are part, lose any notion of moral authority.
      Innocent members of the force have nothing to fear from oversight.

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    • Lol – name any police force that’s unblemished – stupid comments ? ARMCHAIR / KEYBOARD WARRIOR ????

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    • GSOC was a good thing in thoery and has been working well enough oonce they ironed out the kinks.

      It was more for public perception. Poeple think uards investigating guards nothing would happen but to be honest guards are happy to see GSOC coming because those higher ranks investigating were highly unfair to guards. Gsoc is working away grand now.

      I do take exception to end of year the media would report 16000 complaints were made to GSOC but they stop short of saying how many were upheld. To be honest if your doing your job getting in the face of criminals all they do is make complaints.

      gonna let you all in on a HUGE state secret. Be nice to a guard and polite and shock horror the guard will be nice to you

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    • Thanks for that wonderful contribution tadhg.
      There’s only one keyboard warrior in this discussion…
      Put the mirror down next time you’re typing

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  • I’d say the increasing negative perception of the Gardai may be as much to do with the behaviour of too many members of the rank and file as it is to do with media bias. It is widely accepted in the public mind that the standard of recruit has plummeted in recent years. It also seems that many members of the Gardai (especially younger members) no longer see their role as one of protecting the peace but rather one of whipping the public into line. It’s not a healthy situation and it’s time that the Gardai and legislators drastically reformed the force.

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    • Well said, very free with their batons.

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    • No it’s not a widely held public opinion, that’s just your opinion and that of your own peers maybe. Sweeping generalisations do not constitute facts. Reference your statistics please.

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    • no Jack its my opinion too, we’ve all seen it. hard men they are not, bully boys with issues.

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    • So there are two people, that’s not ‘widely held’. Look at the amount if dislikes compared to likes for his comment alone. It’s YOUR attitude that needs to change. I’ve always been treated with the utmost respect by Gardai because I give respect. I have never in my life been mistreated, abused or assaulted by a Garda and neither has anyone I know. Why? Because decent people don’t put themselves in positions of confrontation with the Gardai and don’t challenge their authority. I’ve found them to be as friendly if not more than the people who work in my local shops, taxi drivers and bank officials. I don’t kiss ass when I’m stopped by a Garda, I speak to them as I would like to be spoken to and if I’ve done something wrong I apologise. I’ve never been arrested, nor summonsed to court and have no penalty points and I drive about 1000 kms or more a week . I don’t occupy Dame Street or Council offices because mammy and daddy didn’t pay me enough attention. I don’t feel the need to ‘Reclaim the streets’. I have protested and during the protests spoke to the Guards in the march and thanked them for helping out. Funnily enough not one of them kicked me in the head or ankles or anywhere else. You see I don’t view a ‘Public Servant’ as a public slave.

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  • Another pary political broadcast on behalf of the Labour Party. Are they paying for advertising space on The Journal?

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    • Looks like someone is hoping to replace councillor with TD, on the back of an AGSI and GRA endorsement, I wonder though if the councillor would be willing to leave the Labour Party if they force though the cuts.
      I think we are seeing the beginnings of the politicization of the guards. He’d be best reminded of the reasons for civilian oversight of policing.

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    • Very true David. It’s sad that those that disagree through their red thumbs will be same ones to moan when they realise they’re hoodwinked by his lies on voting him a higher salary for lies.

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  • What does ACAB Stand For. A C..T. a B……S.?.??

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  • maybe when the gardai drop the smart ass attitude and expect respect when none is given,maybe then they will been seen in a better light by the public,some of them just have no respect or proper knowledge of the law

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  • Respect works both ways, try and argue your case when stopped for a traffic offence and see the Garda response. Thank feck for the technology to record these conversations. If you don’t mind I will judge a Garda case by case.

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  • This article is wrong in it’s basic assumption and therefore wrong throughout. The presence or not of Gardai makes no difference to the level of crime.Ask any criminologist. This is a mass hysteria reaction. Studies have been done. Criminologists tested. Gardai on the beat do not reduce crime. Stop this rubbish.

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    • Pong 15/02/13 #

      Of course Gardai on the beat reduces crime , take it from the horses mouth it would help if those caught committing crime got the relevant sentence for the crime and not a slap on the wrist……

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    • The point of the column is nothing to do with putting Gardaí on the beat! It’s to do with the constant misrepresentation of An Garda Síochána in the media, about how the media with only jump on a story where they can put a negative spin on it. A prime example would be the traffic accident in Limerick today, two Gardaí OFF DUTY going home from work were in a crash… So what? I never seen a headline ‘Postman involved in Traffic accident’ plastered across any form of media, have you? The column is also about how due to a number of factors from higher powers have detactched the Gardaí from the system that they are an important cog. These ‘powers’ appear to have their own agenda that involves a lot of back patting in the Dáil Bar far from the dark seedy world that a deminished and forgotten force must face with the constant worry of how they are going to pay their next bill. And as for your “presence or not of Gardaí” will you cop on to yourself. Of course there is the agrument that people commit crime, police or not, I accept that to a degree, Gardaí on the street however do a number of things, two examples would be they reassure the public that Gardaí are there if needed, anothe more simple one is they are a deterrent to the more common “Opportunistic Criminal” I’m pretty sure you would be one of the first people to get on their soapbox if for whatever reason were looking for a Garda and could not find one.

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    • Ian
      If you are correct then we need to invest heavily in a volunteer force of Gardai as the specialist roles required for the permanent force are unnecessary on the streets and a waste of expensive training.
      An intelligence led Force has little to do with Community policing which can be carried out at a much more basic level.

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    • Seriously

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    • Ummmm no. Do you police? Take it from the professionals they know and are challenging the minister the approach of cutting stations and and moral is devastating to the force.

      Every area has its town or villeage criminal they gain little crime wave, no guards in town or village to keep them in check crime goes up. You can also be sure that area that have no garda station will have rise in serious crimes.

      Intelligence led policing is vital but where do you think it comes from? Its not all criminals rolling over on each other its locals who know what’s going on. Vital local guards have dealings with community.

      Shatter does not want that

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    • Rory conway: Do not mislead people here by spouting that tripe. What you are saying is fundamentally and categorically incorrect. Criminologists do not say that. One example for you, please check out the work of the respected Professor of Criminology R Homel – Un-Peeling tradition: Contemporary policing, 1994 – griffith.edu.au

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    • @Richard
      Get back in your box with your cynical comments all you seem to do is have a pop at Gardaí and the rest of the public sector. Look at any study and you will see Community Policing is one of the fundamentals of intelligence lead policing which you seem so keen on.

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    • Ian
      Are you suggesting that I have no right to an opinion and that anything I may say will not be taken down and used against me unless it’s at a roadside stop?

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    • @Richard
      No not at all. All I’m saying is you obviously have a chip on your shoulder about the Gardaí and that you kindly refrain from commenting on something you know clearly very little about.

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    • Ian — Get back under your rock.

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