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Dublin: 7 °C Tuesday 18 June, 2013

Aaron McKenna: Plight of nurses exposes futility of the Croke Park deal

We’re breaking the hiring freeze to staff our health service – and the new entrants will be taking the pay cuts nobody else wants.

Aaron McKenna

THE UTTER HYPOCRISY and futility of the Croke Park Agreement was in evidence with the announcement that 1,000 graduate nurses are to be hired next year to make up for the not inconsequential staff shortages on our hospital wards. The new nurses, fully qualified and doing the same job as any of their peers, will be paid 20 per cent less for their labours than those already at work.

The first strand of the agreement exposed as farce is the fact that we’re hiring nurses during a supposed ‘recruitment freeze’, in which no new public servants are to be hired to replace those leaving or retiring. The idea is that by avoiding recruitment we can negate the need for nasty compulsory redundancies or further pay cuts. The trouble is that when some folks leave, well, you miss them more than others.

The world hasn’t fallen apart for the amount of quango bureaucrats and departmental pen-pushers who have sailed off into the sunset, thanks to efficiencies made to the work practices of those remaining (or just the fact that if half the quangos in the country shut down tomorrow, nobody would notice). Unfortunately when a nurse leaves the service, she (and it is usually a she) leaves a gap in the care that can be provided to the sick and infirm that must be filled.

To date the government has got around this niggling problem by hiring agency staff, which costs a lot more than permanent staff. Usually you use agencies when you have short term spikes in demand and it’s cheaper over the year to just bring in people as required.

Cost overruns

The government has been retaining agencies near-permanently, manning the posts of retirees. These agency staff are not counted as ‘real’ staff, so the government and unions can proudly stand up and say “We are delivering savings to the wage bill!” They neglect to mention that the line item for agencies has gone through the roof in recent years.

With cost overruns in health rising to impressive levels, the go-ahead was given to hire 1,000 new nurses, as it was decided that saving face is less important than saving a bit of money. That’s the Croke Park Agreement all over.

The second strand of farce in Croke Park comes from the wages for new entrants. These new nurses, when they’re hired, will earn a fifth less than their counterparts. The same sort of thing is happening to new entrants throughout the public service.

The unions are hosting token protests to these measures, supporting a recent march by newly qualified teachers for example. But there is no question of them bringing the entire country to a grinding halt, as they threaten they would if the government took €20, let alone 20 per cent, off any of their existing members. The ladder is being well and truly pulled up behind those already in.

Breathtaking

The hypocrisy of this is breathtaking; even more so considering that union leaders will likely be out pretending it had nothing to do with them in ten years’ time when all the industrial relations problems we are storing up by paying new entrants substantially less than their peers for an equal day’s work come to a head.

Staff nurses aren’t the only ones getting a raw deal. Student nurses, who work the same long twelve hour shifts as the peers who supervise them, get not a cent in their first year of placement; and €6 an hour in their second. The minimum wage is €8.65, in case you needed reminding.

There is some quid pro quo in being a student nurse, earning your trade. But paying nothing to a person who still cares for patients in many ways that any other nurse does is them providing a subsidy to the state, just the same way that carers do. They’re considered cheap, disposable labour. If anyone in our public sector ought to be earning six figures, it’s these sorts of heroes.

We pay inflated wages to trumped up bureaucrats, the county managers, the quango directors and the special advisers; and we pay over the odds for many mid and senior level management roles in our public service. But the nurse, be she a student or fully qualified, is getting between twenty per cent less than her colleagues and nothing at all for being there for us when we’re at our most vulnerable.

Racket

The CPA is a racket. It is unions threatening to bring the state down around our ears if their ranks are touched, whilst the young and upcoming generation of public servants subsidise their higher paid peers. It makes no sense whatsoever that a state trying to slim down cannot make the conscious choice to triage its departments and make the choice, however painful, to let go certain elements so it can save others.

The government cannot shutter a quango or merge two and let admin staff go after the efficiencies are realised; and it is forced to leave hospitals and schools shorthanded because, in the eyes of the agreement, a bureaucrat is of equal importance to a life saver. The folks working in these departments and quangos may be great people, individually deserving of merit for the job they do. But when we’re borrowing billions to keep the lights on, we should make a choice as to whether we need them more than we need our nurses, firefighters, gardai and other essential frontline staff.

Our government ought to get out of the pockets of the unions and start making conscious choices about what to save and what to cut in our public service. And we oughtn’t lean on lowly paid nurses and other new entrants to stump up far more than their fair share to ensure government doesn’t have to reach into the pockets of any highly paid folks who never have to work a 12-hour shift, care for the dying and comfort the sick.

Aaron McKenna is a businessman and a columnist for TheJournal.ie. He is also involved in activism in his local area. You can find out more about him at aaronmckenna.com or follow him on Twitter @aaronmckenna.

Read: More columns from Aaron McKenna on TheJournal.ie>

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Comments (110 Comments)

  • Bring politician incomes back to 2004 level.
    Cut THAT by 20%.
    Make them accountable for people’s lives.

    Reply
  • siobeli 15/12/12 #

    My newborn is in the special care unit, and the work by the nurses is amazing…chatting to one last night, he (yes male nurse!) said they are so over stretched now that they dont have the time to even give some of these babies a cuddle as there is 3 staff to 8 babies(on a good day!) often just 2 staff, in austrailia it it 1 staff to 2 babies.
    The hospital is so stuck for place that they have converted the cleaning equipment cupboard in to a “room” that my baby shares with another baby!!!
    Myself and my partner are just so dismayed now at this country seeing the treatment of hard working people and of vulnerable babies :(

    Reply
  • I think the upcoming recruitment drive is a disgrace. As a nurse I would actively encourage new graduates to leave this country because its the only way they will receive further training. Secondly the government need to realise they cant treat nurses like shit anymore. Id love to see how many politicians would stand for re election if their salary was gonna be 22000

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    • Martin, also tell those nurses that the Christmas parties in the public sector are awful! Cheap? Yes, but NOT cheerful.

      Now the Christmas parties O2, Google, EMC had… Amazing!

      Reply
    • padraig 16/12/12 #

      22k is too much for the fools in Leinster House, let alone the insane sum they get now.

      Reply
    • I dare u to work in a hospital a see how hard nurses don’t work and the amount of mistakes they make and health and safety rules ignored constantly .. The amount of breaks they take .. ie 2 half hr coffee breaks and one hour lunch breaks? I gave up hospital work and work in a private practice due mainly to very inadicate poor staff and patients constanty put at risk. Nurses running out at 4.15 pm on a Friday who are rostered to remain on duty until 6pm .. In Theatre , watch them jump for joy when a case is cancelled?? Nurses my backside… Thanks to Philipeno staff , care assistants you might just receive decent care. Unless your a private patient!

      Reply
    • Martin, I work 5 x 12hr shifts with 2 days off, I rarely get my lunch breaks, and I am the CNM. But I guess I’m just a mere nurse to you.
      With regards the arrest team, I’m US trained, I can lead the arrest team on my own, and very often, do. There have been times when the arrest bleep has gone off and I’ve fixed the issue before anyone else arrives.
      Nurses work exceptionally hard, yes there are a few bad ones, but are you going to declare that every NCHD and consultant is perfect? Because that’s laughable, utter laughable. I could write books at the amount of mistakes I’ve covered up to protect your profession, and I can guarantee a nurse has covered your mistakes on more than one occasion.
      Your remarks are derogatory, insulting and bolster the view that consultants look down upon us mere nurses.

      Reply
    • James I’d very much like to know what mistakes you claim to have covered with regards surgeons/consultants ? Did u document these mistakes as is required ? I assume u know what an incident form is .. Explain please as I would be very happy to inform the medical council on your behalf!

      Reply
    • Martin; I have always worked within the rules and regulations of my profession, and I have always been proactive when necessary.
      To refer to your comment below, do I get paid OT? Sometimes I do, sometimes I have to fight for it (as is my right – I have after all worked the hours).
      Do I go to work stressed and tired?Yes, there isn’t a nurse in the country who doesn’t.
      I’m glad you’re in private practice, because it means I’ll never have the pleasure to be disrespected by you in person.

      Reply
  • Just a quick correction to the article. Nursing students are paid nothing for the first three and a half years of their training. They get paid 50% of a staff nurse salary for the final 36 weeks of their honours degree programme, when they work 12 hour shifts and are counted in the numbers on the roster. This amounts to €11,500 before USC, tax, and pension contributions. The very idea of offering new graduates 80% of a registered nurse salary is appalling, when these new graduates will have the same responsibility and accountability to patients as their senior colleagues. New entrants have already taken a 10% paycut in 2010, so therefore if you got a job pre Jan 2010 you will be earning 30% more than these new graduates are being offered, which is still less than €30,000. @ Jerry, I dont believe you are correct, these jobs will not be snapped up. Most of the graduate class of 2012 have already left the country and gone to the UK, most others in my organisation are leaving in January, and those that stay becuase of family commitments mainly, will head for the private sector where there are jobs and they will be paid an appropriate salary after their four year education programme, that we the taxpayers have paid for. The public health service will not benefit from their skills and knowledge. It is again a signal that the only people in the health service who value nurses are the patients.

    Reply
  • Spot on the mark. What was the farce of allowing highly trained nurses leave on lump sums and high pensions only to be replaced by agency staff. FARCE is the correct word.

    Reply
  • I don’t think I have ever agreed with Aaron on anything in his columns till now. Brilliant piece and so bloody accurate it’s disturbing. There is too much widespread damning of the public service. In my opinion teachers, nurses, Guards, social workers etc get a raw deal. Their pay is average considering the important and often difficult role they hold. Middle and higher management is the problem. Pen pushers and quangos are the problem. Voluntary redundancy is the last thing we should be looking at, it needs to be very selective where we trim, otherwise the public service should be renamed Union Service!

    Reply
  • You ain’t seen nothing yet ….wait for the teacher shortage in the next few years….problem is young teachers ain’t hanging around to be paid less than their colleagues, they’re all gone abroad!

    Reply
    • So are the nurses; and those that stayed are the ones being paid by agency, not HSE.

      Reply
    • Teachers are overpaid, wages need to come in line with European teachers if we are ever to regain competitive edge in this economy.
      Correct salaries and pensions for teachers were way too generous.

      Reply
    • Correct should read current.

      Reply
    • Once again, in line with eu norms, we are missing a lot that eu norms offer, donkeys not use that excuse again!

      Reply
    • *lets not, I have no idea where donkeys came from in the sentence!

      Reply
    • Paul Mc – Is that based on fact? I think not, it’s just another ill informed swipe if you don’t mind me saying, and miles from the truth, let’s be more careful when discussing, criticising and inevitably trying to axe peoples pay and careers yes? As I am sick of saying to Marc Coleman too, every cost in this state is out of line with Europe, it’s just funny how sections within private sector only want to highlight how people on social welfare and the public service are paid more than our EU “partners”. They never seem to want to discuss the massive gaps in cost between Ireland and EU “partner countries” with regard to legal fees, accountancy fees, advertising rates, fuel prices, drink prices etc etc. No lets ignore the “cost of living” of countries and just have a good ole bash eh?

      Reply
    • Teachers and nurses wages and pensions in ireland are still higher than most western European countries,
      Check it out on European pay scales website, we are still paying reasonable wages for the jobs on offer.

      Reply
    • Paul Mc, did it dawn on you that it might be because Irish trained nurses, doctors and teachers are some of the best in the world?

      Reply
    • Do something else for me so while you’re at it Paul, compare advertising rates on national stations in Ireland, lets say Newstalk and RTE 1 and compare them to stations in other EU countries. Then go away and compare the price of milk, the price of legal representation, fuel costs and electricity. Then also have a look at minimum wage costs in the private sector in these countries. Singling out nurses and teachers is grossly unfair when EVERYTHING in this country is out of kilt and to be honest if I am going to start criticising peoples pay I certainly won’t start with the people who educate our young and hold our sick and elderlies hands, I’ll start with jumped up CEO’s, bankers, pen pushers and the like – jobs of much less meaning who pay alot more, what do you think?

      Reply
    • How do you know that?
      Have you been hospitalised all over the world?
      Been to school all over the world?
      I have irish friends working for intel in USA. The level of education their children receive is far superior to our level of education and has been for years.
      My cousin is a headmaster in uk and we have discussed education issues, uk are way ahead or Ireland.
      Your patriotism is to be applauded even if it is somewhat misguided.

      Reply
    • I agree, we need to cut all public sector pay, banks are owned by us that makes them public sector – enforce the wage cuts and reduce pensions.
      Or we could leave the euro and return to the punt, this will bring massive inflation and we keep current pay levels for civil servants, reduce them by inflation.

      Reply
    • I’m an ANP, I have 12yrs experience, most of which has been garnered abroad in the US, Saudi Arabia, worked with MSF in several countries, and the same rang true: Irish nurses and doctors were always far away superior to those of other nationalities.
      But you’re right to insinuate that I know nothing Paul Mc.

      Reply
    • Oh Paul, where to start my friend? The only person misguided here is you. To suggest the education system is better in the US cause of the experience of two of your most likely well paid friends in the US is nothing short of ludicrous! I have very close family who are English born and raised and I wouldn’t be rushing out to put Irish children in the British education system either. But aside from all this I fail to see your point, you have totally dodged my entire point re private sector fees and wages. Care to address them first and I will address any issue you want!

      Reply
    • Teachers who have gone abroad are being paid considerably less than their counterparts at home but go to keep their careers alive. I know, I’m one of them. Teachers, regardless of MAs and other qualifications, start on £21,583 in the English system.

      Reply
    • Paul MC 15/12/12 #

      Diarmaid, private sector fees are for want of a better word – private.
      Public sector wages are the ones that my taxes are used to pay so they are the ones I am entitled to have an opinion on

      Reply
    • Yet again Paul, you are missing the point, I dont know if this is deliberate on your part to appear so clueless or in fact if you actually are having trouble with reality! YOU CANT compare wages in the public service in Ireland to the EU, as our cost of living is one of the highest in Europe. Yes teachers and nurses in Greece may be earning less that their Irish counterparts but you can be equally certain a pint of beer will not cost them €5 or that they will be paying 80c per min peak mobile phone charges etc etc etc. Secondly my point re the “private” sector fees and wages is not one of poking my nose in (I apologise for infringing on their privacy by the way), more-so I am highlighting the absolute hypocrisy in sectors of private sector rambling on about excessive public sector pay when they run and work for companies charging the most in Europe for their comparable service. Just take Marc Coleman for example. Works for Newstalk, which is owned by a tax exile and charges higher ad rates than their equivalent in Europe (same audience), rambling on about overpaying – spare me please!

      BTW I work in the private sector, I have never been a public servant in my life!

      Reply
    • I think u should live in London , New York, LA or Paris and see the difference ?

      Reply
    • What’s your problem.

      Reply
  • As a newly qualified midwife I for one will not be sticking around to receive a ridiculous pay cut. There was a few comments about nurses/midwives not fighting this. We have fought, a few weeks before we started our final 9 month placement in fourth year we found out the 80% of a starting wage we were promised was being cut to 60% with no warning. We went to meetings, marched outside the Dail, wrote letters, signed petitions, spoke to the media, but to no avail. We had to finish our course so we had to accept the reduced pay, and the department of health knew this. Again we find ourselves the target of pay cuts, though we are the lowest paid nurses/midwives in the HSE. The difference is this time we can leave. Last week I, along with three girls who I trained with, accepted full time, permanent posts in Sydney, where we will be paid more than double what the HSE are insultingly trying to force upon us now. It’s a shame that we were educated well, at the cost of the state, and now another country is going to benefit. The government needs to wake up and utilise the people this country has put through third level education, instead of paying out ever increasing social welfare. We are ready and willing to work, but at a fair wage. Otherwise the brain drain is only going to continue, in every profession

    Reply
    • True Laura, but I’d guess many just want the same pay and conditions as their peers, it’s seems to me to be the unfairness of the situation that means many more will leave than normally would.

      Reply
  • Great article !

    Reply
  • If only the Government would listen..

    Reply
  • Good article and it makes sense to clear out all the pen pushers and paper shufflers. But scrapping the CPA will only expose nurses even more. They’ll be the first ones to be shafted. Not one bureaucrat will be touched.

    Reply
  • Does anyone else perhaps doubt that this Martin St. John is truly a consultant?…… smells like troll to me. All he has done is butt in with ignorant comments to reasonable posts so far. Attempting to compare different roles in healthcare is ridiculous also – surely we are all their to do a job, i.e care for the patient! To expect reasonable pay fitting our qualification is not unreasonable while we do so though…

    As for me I am a third year nursing student and I doubt very much I will stay in ireland after graduating if things stay as they are. Why would I?….

    Decent article otherwise but unfortunate that the detail of student nurses being paid 6 euro an hour is so inaccurate – student nurses do not get paid till their 9 month internship period when they effectively work for the HSE, albeit under supervision of a qualified nurse.

    Reply
  • I agree that unions are government eunuchs. That token protest for entrant primary teachers was a farce – no invite to march landed in my inbox! When all other interest groups are out in force the INTO could hardly sit on their hands without looking completely incompetent. It will be interesting to see what INO will do with this. The politicians are losing sight of the bigger picture with this obsession with the bottom line. We are not just an economy, we are a society.

    Reply
  • It sincerely worries me that Martin St John is a practicing doctor. Firstly, his spelling and grammar is absolutely atrocious. Secondly, he is rude and very arrogant. I pity the unfortunate nurses and other members of the multidisciplinary team that work with him. It must be absolute hell. Everyone deserves to have their opinion but there is no need to viciously attack everyone else’s view.

    Reply
  • As a nurse i am well aware of the disadvantages of the CPA. Firstly, it should have dealt with the highest paid earners first. By that i mean the senior HSE mandarins who continue to get a 30,000 bonus for christmas. Whether the EDs are busting at the seams all year, or theatres were short staffed, they gift it to themselves. Before Croke Park, the govt decided to cut 10% off most Ps workers, but bless those on 150,000 a year as they already had lost their 10% bonus (where was mine?) the govt decided not to implement that extra cut to them! Give me a break, as it continues to be a job for the boys, many of whom in the HSE corporate dont have a Leaving cert to qualify them for the 150,000 salary. I ask you why i would work so hard to get a distinction in my own MSc to be questioned and probed by such idiots? The answer is just that: they are idiots and would not know a good idea if it jumped up and bit them in the hand. Sadly for us as staff and we are also the patient population, we are not listened to, and their general arrogance, combined with their intellectual ignorance is destroying our health system. I am disgusted that this government has decided to be so ignorant as to ignore qualified professional status (these nurses are able to hit the floor running on Day 1, with no further training required…. they have consolidated theory and practice in 4th year), and try to demean the work we do. The UK is thrilled with our nurse training and they want to emulate it (in the meantime the minister is reviewing it! to make it worse!) I despair for the fools in charge but more for us: my parents, the cancer patients, any of us who get sick, as the lunatics are running the asylum

    Reply
  • It say’s student nurses don’t get paid in their first year of placement but get paid €6 an hour in second year, you actually don’t get paid for your first three years,I have experienced this as I am in my third year of the nursing course. It would be nice if I did get €6 an euro though rather then not even one cent!

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  • Can someone make this piece REQUIRED READING for anyone looking to educate themselves on the gutless morons that are running this country!
    The CPA negotiated between permanent civil servants and their own union serves only one purpose- to preserve their own lavish terms and conditions at the expense of the rest of society and future workers who will end up repaying the billions borrowed to fund their pay and pensions!

    Reply
    • What are you ON ABOUT?

      Can you please TELL ME what makes you think that PUBLIC SERVANTS doing VITAL WORK for this COUNTRY get LAVISH terms and conditions by comparison with their peers in the PRIVATE SECTOR doing nothing but putting PROFITS in their BOSSES pockets and/or SWISS BANK ACCOUNTS?!

      All workers in this country, public or private, are paying the billions borrowed to fund the BANKS above all else(!) Many employees in these same banks are still “earning” a half million per year, despite everything(!) And despite the fact that the tax payer is funding this kind of remuneration(!) And the fact that we’re getting SFA else out of the deal(!)

      Aside from the fact that the it was government and the unions negotiated this deal, which hurt all public sector workers, high level or otherwise, and was voted on at all levels, including the few lavish and the vast majority of low to middle earners who make up the public service.

      Reply
  • I am a 2012 graduate with a family and commitments. I am sick and tired of all the cuts we have taken. When I started college (2008) the expected salary was >30,000 p/a. I earned more in the private sector as a care assistant than what the HSE are now offering while also expecting us to take the same responsibility as our peers who happened to be hired 6 months previous to us. As a student I worked in different areas & when needed I missed breaks due to shortage of staff I had to stay late on occasions. If this happens while I’m a student I’m sure it will happen as a registered nurse and paid employee.

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  • The problem with nurses is that they won’t stand up for themselves. When is the strike planned?

    The first to be offered positions should be those currently doing the jobs such as agency staff etc.

    The Gardai wouldn’t dare take a cut like this. If it was suggested, there’d be no more favours with wiping penalty points etc. and politicians would need to be on their best behaviour going home from the bar…

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  • 30% less than most of their peers! Very few of us were hired since the last 10% new entrant cut!

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  • Spot on Aaron! The sooner the Croke Park agreement can be ripped up and burned the better.

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  • Eiméid 15/12/12 #

    Whether public sector is overpaid or not, it is perfectly understandable that they want to defend their wage levels. If they didn’t grasping politicians would cut and cut and give ps workers no credit for it either.

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  • So deeply concerned for the plight of newly hired nurses, are we? And it’s not just an excuse to have a dig at the public service and the unions? A likely story.

    What it comes down to is that public servants negotiated a deal through their unions and voted on it, which involved pay cuts of in or around 15% plus cuts in head count and a moratorium, which led to absurd results like the use of agency staffing.

    Whatever about the deal, it’s only fair that workers be entitled to haves say in the terms of cost cutting and restructuring. Just wish things were more like that in the private sector.

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    • Btw, I fully agree that the €100k+ cohort should be cut, by way of a tax or USC increase, which might help with putting funds in place to pay newly hired nurses what they’re worth.

      Reply
    • Unions did not negotiate a 15% pay cut- it had to be enforced by the broke government! Unions grabbed at offer of CPA to stop further cuts and to stop targeted compulsory redundancies in parts of the public service. In the real world those in jobs no longer needed are not kept on or moved to other roles that they are not suited or competent at! While the CPA remains in force Ireland will never get the efficient and effective public service it deserves!

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    • Look on a human level I completely agree but in a real world I have to disagree. For me it comes down to this, in a private company, if a pay cut meant that the company was able to stay open in order to keep jobs and in turn be for the greater good then what is this comment about really. If the money is not there it is just not there. We are all so busy worrying about our own pockets, we are blinded to the bigger picture. The unions are the ones completely shafting the younger workers into the system and shame on you all, for letting that happen!!!!!!

      Reply
    • Jack, are you trying to say that union workers didn’t vote on the Croke Park deal? Because, if you want to deal with reality rather than sloganeering, I think you’ll find that they did. And proper order too, employees should have a say in what happens in their workplace.

      Denise, you should know that in a private company, what Jack imagines to be the “real world”, lower earners with small redundancy packages … the ones that, y’know, actually do the work, would be the first on the chopping block, with the managers reporting back to whatever venture capital firm actually calls the shots that they’re “implementing efficiencies” or “doing more with less” and still collecting their fat bonuses.

      If we want to fix the financial crisis in this country, we need to sort out the banks above all else, public sector pay is only a drop in the ocean.

      Reply
  • Jerry 15/12/12 #

    I think that these nursing positions will be snapped up . All grand to say it is a farce and the graduates getting less money . As for nursing unions will say we don’t agree to this but they will gladly take the union fees from the graduates . Job security is why these will be taken up . Two years of knowing you have income . Where as in agency you have no security . All grand everybody saying not fair or right . But are they going to put food on my table and pay bills for graduates

    Reply
    • You evidently don’t know many nurses. Jobs may be take up by those few who already have family commitments. A few still who wish to take a few months organising themselves for departure.
      But they won’t stay to earn a ridiculous amount, with no career development opportunities in a stagnant state. Nurses are educated people with drive. Which this country can’t fulfil.

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    • Jerry 17/12/12 #

      How do you know don’t know any nurses or I am not a registered nurse . Just stating what I hear on ground , and what I think

      Reply
  • Croke Park deal did not go far enough, politicians paid for votes in Celtic tiger years. We need to reduce wages to correct levels and enforce productivity .

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    • You gonna walk around to every single hospital, school, garda station and ensure productivity is 120%

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    • Paul MC 15/12/12 #

      Risteard.
      Bit of a dozy comment to submit, you don’t have to agree with me but at least post a realistic comment.
      Sarcasm is the lowest form of communication.

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    • Productivity?
      I was on a 12hr shift yesterday, where I got one 15min break which I took while updating patient notes. That’s the norm, productivity is at 120% already!

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    • “Enforce productivity”! Most front line workers are there to make some kind of difference and and will naturally be productive given half a chance. Enforcing it in a one-size-fits-all often is unproductive in itself! People should be inspired not forced, and inspiration comes from the top. What do we see there only squabbling fools passing recriminations at each other across the Dail without the chahoonas to stand up to our EU overlords (even the IMF can see we are on the wrong path).

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    • That’s not productivity that’s just work. Do you think that there is no way that your job and more importantly the other jobs around you could be changed somehow to make your life and the service you give better? That’s productivity. No one is saying that you and the guards are not doing the hours but we highly suspect that a lot of the effort is waste if your efforts.

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    • There was nice sarcasm in my post. How would you “enforce productivity?

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    • No sarcasm that was supposed to say

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    • Paul MC 15/12/12 #

      Simple, make employees accountable, if they do not perform and achieve realistic targets cut wages or sack them, happens in private industry every day. Preform of pick up your P45 on the way out the door.
      Currently it is impossible to sack a teacher unless it is for gross negligence. This is not right, if you are out sick all the time, turn up late for work, don’t perform your duties then get out. Public sector in conjunction with useless vote seeking yes men politicians unions have this country destroyed

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    • Paul MC 15/12/12 #

      One break 15 mins is against the law, were you physically stopped from going on lunch break?

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    • Ever tried taking a break when a patient goes into arrest? Or saying “excuse me, I have to go on lunch” while you’re explaining what DNR means for them and the patient? Or when you’re called to answer questions on a treatment plan for a palliative patient?
      When you’re the only one doing the job you do, it’s not as easy as walking off the job, or just leaving. Being a nurse means you answer questions, you allay fears, you offer compassion, empathy to relatives of a recently deceased patient but instead of going home you go on to the next patient and their needs.
      So is working 80hr weeks illegal, but I do that regularly, as do many people on the frontline.

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    • Paul MC 15/12/12 #

      Come on, who works 12 hours straight with one 15 min break?
      Report facts or get a new watch.

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    • what targets would you put out for teachers? will ye make exemptions for teachers who don’t reach them due to lack of resources, student absenteeism, or students disrupting class?

      or doctors / nurses? make a target of how many patients to keep alive? or maybe set a turn around time in treatment?

      firemen… how many fires can they put out in a week?

      gardai… how many criminals can they lock away in a month.

      or… ye know… ye could be realistic… and stop trolling public sector workers.

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    • Paul that’s life for some in the public frontline, not me but some, inform mgt and go is my motto, but even I stay behind when my professional experience deems it necessary

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    • You do 4 days of 12hr shifts , two coffee breaks and a lunch hour every day.. Then 3 days off? Care to name the hospital u work for and I will confirm this with your CNM???

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    • As a consultant I beg to differ… There is an arrest team .. Usually jr doctors so please less of the bull

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    • @martain, typical bully, give me your bosses name (Cnm), as a consultant you should be aware sick leave is not replaced , many nurses do their notes during their break, if called out of break they rarely get that break time back, yes we do three long days a our shift but are expected to do overtime when necessary , 4 long days is not unusual , wake up you are ment to the leader of your team

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    • It’s nurse who restock the arrest trolley , doctors can leave post arrest, nurses are also left to explain what the medics said to the families post arrest, yes we do stay back at arrest times to. Allow our colleagues do the routine work,

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    • Jame are you paid OT?? I wouldn’t want to be your patient if you are so stressed and tired .. This is downright dangerious.. I can have your hours reduced if you can’t hack it!! I’m serious

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    • Shay I’m self employed ? Shall I sack myself

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    • Martain, if your knowledge is as poor in your job, as it is about nursing, I’d suggest so, but then again I’d leave that to yourself to decide

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    • @ shay Don’t bother engaging Martin about his ‘career’ as a doctor, which we can be pretty sure is fictional. If it isn’t, lets just hope he has limited contact with patients, as nobody’s health should be in the hands of a sociopath.

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  • Schnucs 15/12/12 #

    Seriously…..were they not told agency working was gonna cost more in long run!!!! Why can’t people listen rather than making the mistakes in first place….it’s alright for children and teens but not grown adults in charge of our whole health service!!!!!!

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  • Very good article.

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  • It’s time for honesty. Honesty by trade unions and honesty by government. Agreement must be reached to reverse the Croke Park Agreement. Lets get realistic and patriotic!. Save Ireland and help stop emigration please stop being selfish!

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  • if you are an employer looking for cost reduction this seems a good concept
    on the other hand experience which would mean a higher salary may be the better option ,
    so where is the balance struck higher taxes maybe (seems fair)
    Or is it the case the cost to the employer would be even lower to the employer by way of offering lets say a 24hr
    contract and nurse bank hours instead of using agency staff.
    Will not work tried and tested buyer beware

    Reply

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