a defective toy injured a kid in USA some years back,outrage! all toys recalled.a fast food restaurant made nearly 100,000 sick with food poisoning, nothing happened, why? the chain sponsers a political party with lots of money.guns in the hands of nuts kill lots of people but,here’s the kicker,the machine needs the money from the sale of guns!

Its not the likes of the gun loby groups are the problem. Its in the American constitution that people have the right to bare arms. Its so difficult to change anything in the constitution in the US. Its not an easy process & if it was changed the loby groups could challenge that to get it changed back. The only answer would be for all US citizens to come to agreement about these gun laws. So as such US citizens would have to agree not to carry guns. Thats a very unlikely situation in a country that has a very large creation following. A lot of these gun carriers are not bright.

My bad I was thinking of the ak

“clamp down on gun laws” ? Are you saying that America should get rid of gun laws?

C’mon Declan, don’t be a smartass.

Sorry dexter, I am just trying to understand warrens point?

Guns just make it so much easier, don’t you think?

Just been reading the up date 7 people dead . What a terrible waste of life . Rip

struggling against wild animals.. are you serious??

The only ‘wild animals’ were the immigrants who massacred the native Indians (although that does an injustice to animals)

When was the last time 6/7 people got killed in the one gun incident in Ireland, outside of the Troubles, Ru Ni Digs?

I think you are kinda missing the point here Andrew.Gun laws don’t stop gun violence,whether it be one person killed or 6/7!!!

I’d argue the point that access to high power automatic weapons greatly increases someone’s ability to commit multiple murders in these spree killings.

You’ll find Ireland has a very low level of gun violence, and are quite strict with gun licenses.
The sentiment is true, people kill other people, but that does not mean that the laws can’t be changed because of human nature.

Clearly you are wrong Ru Ni Digs. We have strict gun laws and no history or culture of multiple gun deaths, outside of the Troubles. And on a wider point, as other people have pointed out entirely correctly above, high-powered automatic weapons only serve one function – facilitating a greater kill rate. There are many things not to like about how our State is run, but on the issue of guns, I for one am VERY glad I live here and not in the US, or Switzerland, or anywhere else where gun control is lax.

@Ru – if you really think that then you need to look at some facts. If you did, you’d realise that America’s easy availability of guns has direct effect on gun deaths which is way beyond the scope of situations like the one reported here.

The real story is not these not so infrequent killings, the real story is that about 85+ people die every day in the US due to firearms. The difference between the US’s statistics on firearms deaths versus any other country is shocking. Even just looking at the suicide by firearm figures in high gun ownership states versus low gun ownership states is absolutely damning.

Crazy sick morons all over the world, not just here in the States .. But guns still should be illegal

Ru, it’s people with guns that shoot people .. people without guns don’t shoot people. I’m stating the obvious but it’s as simple as that.

What do you define an “assault gun”?

@jj .., a assault rifle is 5.56…to 7.62 caliber riffle

No, those are just calibre’s, the calibre doesn’t define a type of firearm. 7.62 and 5.56 are the most Common calibre used around the world including in bolt action hunting rifles.

I would imagine it boils down to rate of fire and calibre of bullet fired. Assault rifles by definition are intended for maximum damage/kills. They have no proper place outside of military or police forces. Bambi only needs to be shot once, not 30 times, when hunting.

The 7.62 was designed for a German rifle called the mp44 hitler called it a assault rifle … Rifles before that where a higher caliber single shot or semi Automatic the 7,62 is classed as a intermediate round designed for solders its not suitable for hunting anything over a fox

Sorry Gary, the German MP44 was 7.92x33mm Kurz (short).

Well according to Wikipedia:

•It must be an individual weapon with provision to fire from the shoulder (i.e. a buttstock);

•It must be capable of selective fire

•It must have an intermediate-power cartridge: more power than a pistol but less than a standard rifle or battle rifle

•Its ammunition must be supplied from a detachable magazine rather than a feed-belt.

•it should at least have a firing range of 300 meters (1000 feet)

Firstily the weapons used in this shooting were apparently semi-automatic handgun’s and not assault rifles or full auto weapons. This is also true of the Holmes killings where he used semi-automatics as well.

Secondly, this link http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090208100642AA1yRuX explains that while full auto weapons are available, they are highly regulated and require extensive background checks. so the myth that you can walk in to your local Walmart and buy a full auto AR-15 or and AK-47 is untrue.

Lastly people seem to forget that it is the individual that pulls the trigger that is responsible for massacres like these and not the actual weapon. Only a few days ago a Chinese man killed 9 people with a knife and wounded 4. In China between 2010 to 2011 there were 6 serious incidents http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_attacks_in_China_(2010%E2%80%932011) involving knives 2 of which had a similar death toll to the attack in Wisconsin. So what do you do ? Restrict or ban knives?

As yet no motive has been established for either this or the cinema massacre a few days ago but yet people seem to think that banning guns will stop these events taking place. It’s a typical ill-thought out knee jerk reaction that does nothing to seek out the true motivations of the people who carry out these actions.

China stabbings: Causes.

“Prof. Joshua Miller, chair of Social Welfare Policy at Smith College, attributed the attacks to stress caused by “rapid social change, mass migrations, increasing disparities in wealth and weakening of traditions.”[23] Some sociologists believe some of these attacks may due to the PRC government’s failure to diagnose and treat mental illness.[14] The perpetrators may feel victimized by stress due to the rapid social changes[14] in China during the last 10 years caused by the privatization and decreased social security of China’s reform and opening period. During this time, more and more migrant workers from rural areas have moved to cities such as Shanghai to find jobs. However because they do not have social security (because of the hukou system), many of them do not have health insurance. Because of the financial crisis of 2007–2010, some have lost their jobs, which is stigmatized in China, and have had to return to their native villages jobless and unemployed. The choice of schools for most of the attacks means they could be copycat crimes”

It’s absolutely irrelevant what guns were used in any particular massacre.

Every day people die from firearm deaths all over the world but the US is BY FAR in the lead here with about 80-90 deaths per day.

Historically about 56 of those deaths will be by handgun (65%). Those who have guns in their household are apparently 3 times more likely to suffer death by firearm.

Here’s something that I find particularly shocking…. We in Europe put gun deaths down to the stereotypes: drug gangs, bad neighbourhoods and crazed gunmen massacres. You may not know it but the truth is that 60% of suicides in the US are by firearm.
It gets worse. As a percentage of gun deaths, figures show 42% as murders – 54% are suicides. 54%….
The odds of suicide by firearm in a household which has a gun… 5 TIMES more likely.

Simple – guns don’t kill people, people kill people, HOWEVER, the availability of guns is linked to firearm death rates so the availability of firearms kills people.

To me, after reading the numbers the discussion shifted completely. When such a percentage of firearms deaths are suicides it’s just completely shocking – it’s a shifted perspective.

here’s something that gives some shocking detail.

http://www.vpc.org/fact_sht/hgbanfs.htm

Brian, I’d fully agree with you that the reasons as to why these attacks take place need to be considered. My point would be limiting someone’s ability to access a weapon to carry it out. I can’t see why a civilised modern society needs access to semi-auto hand guns and derivatives of assault rifles. And to protect myself isn’t reason, it only serves to escalate the problems and I’ve never heard of anyone preventing a spree killing with their own personal weapon.

Faceless, targetshooters and legit gun enthusiasts use these type of waepons responsibly so why should they be punishedfor the wrongs of a few? As for your comment that you have never heard of anyone stopping a killing spree with their own personal weapon that is because people are not allowed tocary their own guns.If they could then maybe they could have prevented past killings and future attacks.That is what the NRA are avocating.

@Brian – here are some facts. It’s not hard to find concrete statistics on firearms in the US.

“Self Defense

For every time a gun in the home is used in a self-defense homicide, a gun will be used in:
1.3 unintentional deaths
4.6 criminal homicides
37 suicides

In 1997 there were 15,690 homicides.
Of these, 8,503 were committed with handguns.
Among handgun homicides, only 193 (2.3 percent) were classified as justifiable homicides by civilians.
For every time in 1997 that a civilian used a handgun to kill in self-defense, 43 people lost their lives in handgun homicides alone.”

So really the question should be “why do laws exist which intend freedom of use for the responsible facilitate the deaths of so many for such a small benefit?”

@ Brian Ward – the response to knife crime is not to ban knifes, it’s to do what the laws in this country do, make it an offence to carry any type of knife without a reasonable excuse. Doing the same in America with guns would be a start.

Who cares what type of gun it is.

Gerry, I agree that making it an offence to carry a knife will deter an ordinary person from carrying a 6 inch blade around with them but it doesn’t stop criminals or people intent on committing a crime does it?

Tomy, I get your point about the high amount of gun suicides however you seem to be concentrating more on the fact that the suicide is firearm related without looking at the suicide itself. Yes there is a high level of suicides due to firearms probably due to the fact that there is a large amount of access to guns. You do however have to ask the question that if there wasn’t a gun available would the person use some other means of committing suicide? If a person it committed to killing themselves they will do it one way or the other. If as much effort was put into suicide prevention and mental health services as there is into banning guns then I believe that would be more beneficial to society in the long run.

As for homicides you din’t seem to give any figures as to how many of those deaths are down to illegally held weapons and how many are due to legally licensed firearms.

@Brian – once again you are circling around the issue. Yes, it’s true that the source of suicidal thoughts need to be dealt with BUT once again if you read something about this which was based on fact you would still plainly see that the availability of guns is the problem.

If you compare states with high and low gun ownership the numbers clearly show that guns ARE the problem.
Where gun ownership rates are states are at 15% the suicide by firearm accounts for approx 25% of suicides. Where gun ownership is at 50% the rate of suicide by firearm is 65% of suicides.

While many who attempt suicide plan it and follow through, firearms have by far the highest “success” rate.

I agree that the suicide problem is something to work on from many angles but you’re in denial if you don’t think that being honest about gun availability is a major step.

Tomy I have never denied that guns and the availability of guns can play a large part in suicide deaths but let me ask a very simple question.

Would banning firearms reduce the number of suicides for people who are intent on killing themselves?

Considering that the Irish suicide rate is higher than the US and we have very restrictive gun laws I don’t think that the availability of guns is the problem.

Brian – YES it would massively reduce suicide by firearm.

Just look at the numbers – higher gun ownership = massively higher suicide by firearm rate.

There is some very simple logic here.
US has highest gun deaths per capita – massively so.
About 55% of these are suicides.
The difference in states of high gun ownership versus low gun ownership is stark and points DIRECTLY at gun ownership.

If your argument is that there is a difference between causality and correlation then yes you are right, gun availability is not the direct cause of suicide.

There is an obvious correlation there though and it is plain to see that gun ownership is the area where you can directly, quickly and effectively address in order to help prevent the needless loss of about 15000 deaths per year.

Also – your contention that those determined to kill themselves will manage to follow through – yes, that’s true. However, studies have shown that the % “success” of attempts for firearms are MUCH MUCH higher (about 85%) than other methods employed.

Supporting gun ownership effectively supports death over help for people who are suicidal.

As for “denying” people attending gun ranges etc – there is no reason to assume that banning handgun/assault weapon ownership in the home means that you couldn’t go to a gun range and shoot some of their own weapons or indeed have your weapon kept there.

If there was political will, America could move to a situation where hunting weapons are permitted to be owned in a similar way to how they are in many countries. The idea of the right to bear arms continuing to be relevant is ridiculous – and where does it end?

So easy to just blame America.These are copied and pasted. They do not include the massacre in Norway last year or the rampage of Michael Ryan in Hungerford in the 80′s.

Mass shootings in Europe—Facts

- September 24, 1995 – France

Sixteen people are killed and many injured in the southern French towns of Sollies-le-Pont and Cuers when a 17-year-old boy goes on a shooting rampage. He kills himself a few hours after the carnage.

- March 13, 1996 – Scotland

A deranged gun collector kills 16 children aged four to six and their teacher at a school in Dunblane, Scotland. He then kills himself.

- September 27, 2001 – Switzerland

A man bursts into the local assembly in the central Swiss town of Zug and opens fire, killing 14 and then turning the gun on himself.

- March 27, 2002 – France

Eight people are killed and 19 injured when a man opens fire on members of the municipal council of Nanterre, a region of Paris. He kills himself the next day while in police custody.

- April 26, 2002 – Germany

Sixteen people, including 12 teachers and two students, are gunned down at a school in Erfurt in eastern Germany by a 19-year-old former student, apparently in revenge for having been expelled, who then killed himself.

- October 15, 2002 – Italy

A recently divorced man shoots his ex-wife and her family and neighbours in the northern Italian city of Turin, leaving eight dead, before killing himself.

- November 7, 2007 – Finland

An 18-year-old man goes on a shooting rampage in a school in the southern Finnish town of Tuusula, killing eight people before shooting himself.

- September 23, 2008 – Finland

Eleven people, including the gunman, die in a massacre at a training school at Kauhajoki, Finland.

- March 11, 2009 – Germany

Nine pupils, three teachers and three passers-by are killed in a school shooting at Winnenden in southern Germany by a former pupil who then kills himself.

- June 2, 2010 – England

Twelve people are killed when a 52-year-old taxi driver goes on a shooting spree in the English region of Cumbria, before killing himself.

Thumbs up Adrian
In Ireland our mass killers tend to use bombs and be not American. Dublin. Monaghan. Omagh. Derry (guns). etc etc – over three thousand in under thirty years.

That’s a smart comment!!

That was directed at mick the bull daly, by the way

@adrian, don’t think anyone can argue with that but I’m sure they’ll try