So we’re going to fanny about with grandparents’ rights, while leaving unmarried fathers with none?

Makes sense.

Awww you all musy live in the ideal world, There is many situations where a couple have split up and the mother of the child does not allow access for various reasons or the father may not be in the Country and Grandparents have a right to see their grandchild, There are many circumstances which we wouldnt even know about

Proposed legislation would not give automatic access of grandparents to their grandchildren but would allow them to apply to court for this. The judge has the final say. This bill also seeks to give greater day to day powers to grandparents and others who have custody of children. It fills an important void and will hopefully benefit many grandparents who may never otherwise see their grandchildren after a breakdown of their son/daughter’s relationship.

If this is the work of Derek Keating, one should be alarmed, especially after his recent offensive remarks regarding low income families and single mothers.

As a grandparent I’m not sure about this. Now i see my granddaughter all the time, (there are times I think she has moved in she has that much stuff here), and I wouldn’t have it any other way. But this just looks like the state interfering more and more into family and taking more rights away from parents.

Definition of Grandparents : Older people grey and a bit wrinkley more than likely at one stage they were parents themselves, Have the right to give grand children chocolate at any stage of the day without question, also allow small children away with murder because children dont cry in nanny’s house…..

…er, hang about a moment. Anyone else remember when they got their marriage licence that in this country you have to sign a declaration that you’re not marrying (amongst other odd choices) your own grandparent? (A rather icky tax dodging practice from the turn of the century apparently, bypassing death/estate taxes by passing the farm along marital lines instead of through normal inheritance lines).

If we’ve had that legal form on the books for that long and that many people have signed it, are they now saying that the legal term “grandparent” had no definition all that time?

Something seems terribly incompetent about all this….

Agree Emily, unmarried fathers rights should be sorted first. Giving Grandparents a legal status will help in cases were children are living with them as the parents are incapable of looking after them. Unsuitable parents have regained custody due to the right of the family in the constitution and the lack of legal status for Grandparents. (Although I think the amendment to the rights of the child will solve that). We like to think our courts will make the logical decision but laws sometimes don’t make sense.

Communism. The state is not the parent of my children. Somebody can’t just force themselves into my family. When I get married I leave mother and father and begin a new immediate family with my wife. We are one and one brand new unit. This is ridiculous legislation.

This seems to be a timely and valuable piece of legislation. I have huge respect and gratitude for the work of whoever has drafted this bill and look forward to when it is legislation. Grandparents all over this country are being denied access to children that they can love nurture and have a bond with. Heartbreaking incidents of Grandfathers having doors slammed in their face on Christmas Eve are not just anecdotal they are a cruel fact. Bitter and vitriolic parents that can’t see a bigger picture and aren’t secure enough in their own minds to allow kids have a loving relationship with extended family such as Grandparents. They can easily at present flaunt the situation and torture Grannies and Granddads by keeping children from their love and affection. It is heartbreaking and more prevalent than people imagine. Every child deserves a Grandparent that loves them, it can become a huge part of our development in a very positive way. I am very glad of this legislation and I hope it reunites loved ones who currently are being marginalised by the system and vexatious actions of unreasonable cold hearted parents. This bill will be a great service to many children without a voice.

I cannot understand why grandparents should ever have legally-mandated access to children? Will it then be possible to counter-sue so that grandparents are required to pay maintenance? Makes just as much sense.

Ah we are a red tape state , what a waste of time

As a grandparent I’m not sure about this. I’m lucky in that I see my granddaughter all the time(sometimes I think she has moved in she has that much stuff here, including her own room). But this just looks like the state interfering more and more with the family and taking more rights away from parents.

Access Facts
The grandparent access facts article came about in 1999 when my group in
Oshawa was approached by Judy Atkinsons who wanted to cover our issues as
part of her university course. Judy got a A on this! (See Access Benefits
Children for a continuation of this report.)

Few studies have examined the consequences of divorce in the middle
generation on the grandparent�s role. Grandparent roles are as diverse as
the circumstances of their extended families (Matthews & Sprey, 1984).

Grandparents often become a family�s first reserves in times of crisis.
Grandparents act as fun playmates for children, role models, and family
historians, mentors, and help establish self-esteem and security for
children (Blau, 1984; Kornhaber & Woodward, 1981).

Contemporary society has witnessed the evolution of the family from an
extended family unit to the nuclear or modern family unit. It has been
proposed that this nuclear family structure poses a barrier which isolates
extended kin such as grandparents and enables kinship relationships to be
regulated by personal preference and mutual interest (Leahy-Johnson and
Barer, 1987).

Since the 1970s the divorcing family has been the subject of research,
legal reforms, and media attention, the recipient of specialized services
and the source of concern regarding the death of the family. The nuclear
family has been the focus of this attention, with little effects of
divorce on the extended family (Brown, 1982; Duffy, 1982).

One potential aspect of the divorcee is the disruption or severance of the
grandparents-grandchild relationship (Myers & Perrin, 1993).

Due to the increase in the life expectancy, most children have living
grandparents. Coupled with the fact that more than 60% of divorced couples
have at least one minor child, the potential for severed contact could be
quite substantial (Spanier & Glick, 1981; as cited by Matthews & Sprey,
1984).

A study of divorce families in Alberta found that 54.2 % of extended
family members reported difficulties in visiting and maintaining contact
with their grandchildren, nieces and nephews (Andreiuk, 1994).

In examining post divorce kinship interactions, Spicer & Hampe (1995)
concluded that being female and/or having custody was associated with a
high level of interaction with blood relatives.
The gender of the parent may be less important than the awarding of
custody, however, the two factors are closely related since it is
customary for mothers to be awarded custody, particularly of minor
children (Matthews & Sprey, 1984).

Social relations with paternal kin were found to decease for the children
of divorce, particularly in the case of an absent father. Findings suggest
that the adult child serves as a pivotal link between grandchildren and
grandparent (Anspach, 1976).

Child access for the third parties is covered under the federal Divorce
Act and provincial assess legislation. Access may be awarded if it is
shown to be in the child�s best interest. Only Quebec, Alberta and B.C.
have access legislation that presumes contact with grandparents is in the
child�s best interest. This places the responsibility with parents to show
serious cause why access would not be in the child�s best interest. Other
provinces place responsibility onto the grandparents to prove that denied
access will actually harm a child (Andreiuk, 1994).

All but three states in the U.S. have laws permitting grandparents to
petition for visitation upon death or divorce of adult. This assures the
grandparent the right to be heard in court, but it still remains for the
court to decide if it is in the child�s best interest to visit with the
grandparent (Derdeyn, 1985).

Grandparent visitation legislation has risen quite differently from other
domestic relation laws, which generally follows social change. The changes
in grandparents visitation legislation is seen as the product of intense
political activity by today�s older citizens who are greater in number,
healthier and more politically conscious and powerful than in the past
(Derdeyn, 1985; Thompson et al, 1989).

In view of controversies surrounding the legal involvement in grandparent
access, (Derdeyn, 1985) it would seem necessary to evaluate the success or
failure of court ordered access arrangements, in order to facilitate court
decisions regarding a grandparent-grandchild visitation.

A 1995 study by Kruk, found paternal grandparents more likely to be at
risk for denied access in a divorce situation when the mother is the
custodial parent. Maternal grandparents seem to be more at risk for denied
access in a non divorce situation, where conflict is likely to be between
grandparents and both adult child and the partner. Again reflective of
past findings, the son was divorced and the non-custodial parent, while
the daughter was married, custodial parent.

While each of the stories of denied access was unique, certain patterns
emerged. In every separation or divorce circumstance, denied access to
grandchildren was initiated by an ex-daughter-in-law. 100% of these cases
involved paternal grandparents whose son did not have custody of his
children. In many cases, the son is denied access as well during a similar
period of time or was disengaged from the grandchildren’ lives. (Atkinsons
1999)

This preponderance of access difficulties by paternal grandparents is
noted in the literature and seen as a reflection of divorce rate and court
awarded maternal custody of children (Ahrons & Bowman, 1982; Anspach,
1976; Furstenburg, 1981; Kalish & Visher, 1982; Leahy & Barer, 1987;
Spicer & Hampe, 1975).

Grandparents who feel that the stated intent to pursue the matter in court
if necessary, was the main factor in the resolution of the problem. The
data lends support to Gladstone�s (1989) suggestion that grandparents are
not necessarily powerless, and in fact may be able to renegotiate contact.

Despite an initial stage of tension between adult child and grandparent,
things quickly settled into an arrangement not unlike the pre-existing the
denied access. All reported friendly relations with the ex-child-in-law
and the ability to see their grandchildren whenever they want, not only
during assigned access times. These grandparents are now called upon to
baby-sit, attend family functions such as birthday parties and sports
events and can even take the grandchildren for weekends and vacations.
Flexibility, communication and putting the best interests of the child
ahead of hurt feelings were all cited as reasons for the diminished
tension and increasingly co-operative arrangements that all had
experienced since being awarded court ordered access. (Atkinsons 1999)

Access problems follow divorce, separation, or death of an adult child as
well as conflict with the adult child or child-in-law in intact families.
A substantial number of grandparents are able to restore contact using a
variety of mediation strategies as well as the legal system. Those
grandparents who have used these resources reported more positive outcomes
than those who did not. (Atkinsons1999)

The process of divorce requires major reorganization, resulting in a
variety of new, complex family networks. Diverse kinship alternatives
exist following divorce and remarriage, with few rules on which relatives
are to be included and excluded. As a result of the divorce experience,
these altered kinship’s systems vary from a very expansive system to a
contracted and one-sided system, resulting in many implications for the
family (Ahrons & Bowman, 1982; Johnson & Barer, 1987).

It is important to note that the custodial status is the main factor
related to contact loss in separation and divorce cases. Grandparents of
the custodial parent enjoy increased involvement with grandchildren, while
grandparents of the non-custodial parent are at risk of diminished or
denied contact. Present data supports the literature findings that most
divorced fathers become non-custodial parents and many lose contact with
their children (Kruk, 1995; Matthews & Sprey, 1984; Spicer &Hampe, 1975).

In a 1975 study, Robertson suggests that the most significant aspect of
the bond between a grandparent and grandchildren is the fact that this tie
is not direct, but mediated by the grandchild�s parents.

As long as mothers continue to be awarded sole custody of the children,
the maternal grandparents will enjoy a closer relationship with
grandchildren while the paternal grandparents will continue to be at risk
for diminished or denied access (Myers & Perrin, 1993).

In Canada, the issue of grandparents� rights of access to grandchildren
has not been given recognition in legislation, with the exception of the
provinces of Quebec, Alberta and B.C. In all other provinces, grandparents
may only petition the courts for rights of access as interested third
parties. In the absence of a specific statue providing grandparents with
legal standing to access, there are continuing difficulties in obtaining
contact with grandchildren (Kruk, 1995).

The existence of grandparent rights statues in the United States has
effectively reduced the need for litigation (Wilson & DeShane, 1982). Many
grandparents agree that law reform to further rights of access to
grandchildren would likely act as a deterrent to denied access of
grandchildren, thereby reducing the need for adversarial procedures.

In view of successful outcomes following court ordered access in the
present study, it would seem necessary that further studies follow up on
court-ordered visitations, evaluating ongoing relationships and
identifying problems such as refusal to obey access orders. This would
serve to facilitate legal and therapeutic professions in decisions
regarding grandparent involvement in the mediation and legal process of
divorcing families. (Atkinsons-1999)

Grandparent roles are as diverse as the circumstances of their extended
families (Matthews & Sprey, 1984).

Grandparents often become a family�s first reserves in times of crisis.
Grandparents act as fun playmates for children, role models, and family
historians, mentors, and help establish self-esteem and security for
children (Blau, 1984; Kornhaber & Woodward, 1981).

In 1987, Crawford concluded that the stronger the tie with grandparents,
the less likely children were to develop significant psychopathology in
later life. A strong argument for close relationships between
grandchildren and grandparents was supported by researchers who found that
adults who have had strong relationships with grandparents tend to be much
more positive to the value and importance of older citizens (Downs & Walz,
1981).

As well, Kivnick (1982) demonstrated that children who are close to their
grandparents tend to become more effective grandparents with their own
grandchildren, two generations later.

Recent research suggests that grandparents play a significant role in the
lives of children, and in fact, ignoring the existence of a grandparent
who has formed strong bonds with a child may not represent the best
interests of that child (Wilks & Melville, 1990; Kivnick, 1982; Wilson and
DeShane, 1982; Downs & Walz, 1981).

This study also indicates that the grandparent�s role is an integral part
of their self-identity. When the role of grandparent is removed, the
physical and emotional effects are severe, resulting in necessary medical
and psychological intervention. It is suggested the expanding variety of
family forms present in contemporary society constitute a potential threat
to grandparent�s involvement in their grandchildren�s lives.

Party time for lawyers.

If they sorted out the unmarried fathers complete lack of rights regarding their children, then there’d be little need to start adding more players to the rights agendas. The family courts are choc a bloc with cases for access and maintenance , hardly a good idea to add to the waiting lists.
Simply the mother and father should share arranged access , reasonable and transparent standard index linked maintenance arrangements(if necessary) solely based on the children basic needs and then the respective grandparents can by proxy of their own son or daughter, make adhoc arrangements regarding coming to Granny and Grandads for a visit.

This seems to be a timely and valuable piece of legislation. I have huge respect and gratitude for the work of whoever has drafted this bill and look forward to when it is legislation. Grandparents all over this country are being denied access to children that they can love nurture and have a bond with. Heartbreaking incidents of Grandfathers having doors slammed in their face on Christmas Eve are not just anecdotal they are a cruel fact. Bitter and vitriolic parents that can’t see a bigger picture and aren’t secure enough in their own minds to allow kids have a loving relationship with extended family such as Grandparents. They can easily at present flaunt the situation and torture Grannies and Granddads by keeping children from their love and affection. It is heartbreaking and more prevalent than people imagine. Every child deserves a Grandparent that loves them, it can become a huge part of our development in a very positive way. I am very glad of this legislation and I hope it reunites loved ones who currently are being marginalised by the system and vexatious actions of unreasonable cold hearted parents. This bill will be a great service to many children without a voice.

These bills should ensure contact, wheather their was a prior relationship or not. It’s not a parental decision to ensure their child hates all the people the parents hate. Childen come into this world with a family and should be given every opportunity to feel appreciated and belonging to their group of peoples. It should be up to the parents to prove the grandparent unfit in which case supervised visits should be allowed unless the grandparent is a pedofile. What’s the problem with society and todays parents? Stripping a child of their identity is serious!!!!