We have been there for some time Dave . Workers get very little from this state . The vast majority have no access to medical cards despite many having had to drop out of private health insurance leaving them in total limbo, we dont get Fuel or back to school allowanes , if you have children you want to bring up reponsibly either a parent dosent work or you spend alot of your income on childcare .PRSI is virtually worthless with one teeth clean a year , we’ will have to pay for water , property , USC , will get childrens allowance cut , it endless . Governemnt plase get you F8cking boot off our throats!

I feel I’m working for nothing , depressing

“Workers get very little from this state”

Isn’t that because people vote for conservatives? Do people make the connection there?

Businesses and companies should pay taxes when they purchase a vehicle, like the rest of us do.

Reginald
At the moment the Irish State has to borrow twelve billion every year to make ends meet and there are really only two large State spends with Social Protection being the biggest. This is followed by Health.
I don’t really care whether you put Che Guevara or Fidel Castro in charge of the Government I just wonder what in reality they would change within Democratic norms.
If we look at Northern Ireland where Sinn Fein a manifestly Marxist Party shares power in the running of the a province they behave no differently to what you call Conservative Parties down here.

The economy was growing when Sinn Fein were in power up north. Also, SF successfully opposed and helped repeal water charges from being introduced up north. There is nothing different in their policy down here despite what the conservative parties regularly say.

I agree with spending cuts to entitlements provided this is compensated for by abolishing property and water taxes. I also favor ending the tax breaks on the top 10 per cent such as:

- tax rebates on company cars
- group company tax breaks
- discretionary tax reliefs
- tax anomalies

Reg- Are you in the Dail, or running in the next election for some party?

Self-employed person who is a voter for progressive parties.

They seem to be making it as attractive as possible

I wouldn’t say being low income is attractive but don’t for a second think that families in welfare are any better off. Life-time recipients ya their fine. Government it seems trying to put a massive divide between rich and poor and they want the rich to stay as they are and the rest of us to be pushed into poverty.

Feck that. I’m getting fired from my job and going to sit on my hole and reap the benefits. I will get a medical card, dole and full child benefit. I’d be about €200 per week better off.

Might as well stick a notice in FAS or whatever its called now.
Job Description – Dole
Hours a Week – 0 hours
Pay – €188 plus Benefits which include Rent Allowance, Medical Card and other financial goodies
Candidates must be willing to fill out forms and be prepared to sign on once a month.

read the article again before you make presumptions please

I would give anything for a full time job maybe we can swap, family with mortgage and 2 kids working or unemployed unless you are a top civil servant and I emphasise TOP, politician , majority of the rest if us are trying to keep their head avocet water. It a really bad state of affairs that someone working is in the same boat as someone on welfare. But welfare is a struggle too we all know that.
People on welfare don’t want to work no hours they want to work there are no jobs.

Once a year now i believe

would you rather children of families on welfare starve to satisfy your scenario?

Its amazing how people who work think the dole is great. If you really believe it then leave your job then and go on the dole. Ye haven’t a clue what its like so don’t make stupid dumb comments about those living in poverty and make a joke of their suffering. Begrudging people here would rather see these people starve on the streets would ye. Sick people.

Well go leave your job and give it to some one on welfare and you see how easy it is on the dole,until you are on it you do not know what it is like,it’s a joke and depressing and you are certainly not better off on it.

The dole is acceptable, all the extras aren’t , money for communion clothes, money for back to school, money appliances deemed to be necessities ie television, that’s if your long term on the dole,
Accept you new people don’t know how to milk it yet, hope you find work and don’t have too

The idea is good the income levels too low. Workers , in the private sector , have no job security. They are living at their wits end. OK, they could reapply in the event of change of circumstances…………. and get a decision at some remote date. ALL those who are in employment and three children [ or any children], with a large mortgage are relying on this benefit to keep a roof over the childrens’ heads. This will crucify them.

Rory job security is becoming a thing off the past for public sector also, this payment is vital for many

The hatred against the unemployed here speaks volumes. Perhaps the government was right when they implemented the USC. Perhaps it wasn’t a bad idea afterall…

Mark , benefits aren’t upfront, bit like politicians extras,
Nothing against the unemployed, but lets stop paying for extras and give people enough as a basic payment,
At lest then we know what we’re paying for

if your children go into a pyschologist and display symptoms of “behavioural anaomalis” …they will qualify for 281 euro per month and I don’t think it’s cut! ……… If you pinch them while you’re in there the “crocodile tears will help alot ……

The system was created by the Irish people voting for conservative parties who devised policies to benefit the top 10 per cent. That was selfish thinking and now they have to pay the price.

don’t find that strange at all.they are always the same. Hitting the working people while they remain on their big salaries. I assume you were being sarcastic!

The Russians say that the fish rots from the head. That concept appears lost on the Irish.

Just recently your elected reps ripped you lot off to the tune of €100 billion plus and they were pissed to the eyeballs when they did it, still the Irish nation stood back and watched with one hand tied around their collective balls. One of the biggest financial frauds ever perpetrated upon a nation breezed through your parliament by way of a legislative instrument designed specifically to rip you off.

The social welfare system is the least of your problems.

boo hoo. nobody is forcing you to work. Be thankful you have a Job. The unemployed are not to blame for having no work. What do you want for them to starve is it. Pathetic comment.

You do realise Christopher if We all had your work ethic there’d be nobody to fund the lavish welfare system!!

John F,

Wealthy must pay their fair share of taxes which are at a 25 year low.

Hardly a pathetic comment… I come from a one income family and make just enough money every month to pay my mortgage, the bills and feed my kids. It’s very seldom there is anything left over. The childrens allowance regularly goes towards a weeks food shopping and paying for extracurricular activities for my 3 kids. My kids play sports and take part in various after schools projects, it keeps them fit and happy!! I live in South/West Dublin but the local school is in an area that isn’t “deprived enough” for any of the activities to be free or affordable. While a quarter mile away the local school offers free music lessons to kids of junkies and everyday wasters. I’ve toyed with the idea of going on the dole, but as a sufferer of depression being employed just about keeps me sane. I’m constantly skimping on essentials for the house so that my kids can have training gear and boots that fit. Anyone with more than one child knows that hand-me-downs only last so long. Now thanks to the clueless, overpaid morons governing our country not only can I not afford to put cloths on their backs but my kids will have to sacrifice the sports they love. This government and their predecessors have already forced one generation abroad and it looks like my kids and many more will be next.

Well said. The present system encourages unemployment and punishes the hard workers

Sorry now Christopher but a lot of the long term unemployed didn’t have a job during the boom either when jobs were plentiful, no one is asking for people to be starved but its like someone said its all the extras that go with it and there are plenty of unemployed out there who know the system inside out claim everything going and are far better off than my house where 2 of us are working, maybe all the bleeding hearts on here shouldn’t be so naive all the time and think that everyone on the dole is bad off Cos Im telling u for a fact they are not.

No Ann, that is merely an urban myth. Unemployed people during the “boom” had different skills so it’s wrong to assume all of them should have been working on a building site if their area of qualifications was for example science or other.

Did you take out the mortgage and get YOURSELF into debt? Maybe it’s time you took some responsibility for the situation you purport to be in, instead of picking upon people at the very bottom of society, namely the unemployed.

Yes i did take out a mortgage to house my family we also go to work to provide for ourselves and our child i dont expect anyone else to Do it for me, my point is if i don’t do nobody else Will but i know people who have NEVER had a job in their lives and their in their 40,s they didn’t have a different set of skills they had no skills cos they have no intention of ever working because they have the sw system all worked out and don’t need to work. Also what situation do i porport to be in Im just pissed off at the same people getting everything for nothing while myself and plenty of others go to work to pay for them.

Also i pay my mortgage and all bills in full every week/month so don’t dare tell me Im not taking responsibility for my situation.

But Ann:

- weren’t your liabilities transferred to the Irish Taxpayer in the form of a Bank Guarantee?
- who is covering the Bank losses arising from mortgages and so on?
- who went on a credit fueled binge with profligate spending?
Taxpayers paying for Mortgage Interest Supplement: perhaps we should cut Mortgage Interest Supplement.

You aren’t necessarily paying for “others”. You are merely paying into a social system that benefits YOU if you retire, get ill, laid off, need Mortgage Interest Supplement, the list goes on. Tell that next time you lose your job or your company closes. A hate-based attitude creates class division and you seem to advocate a certain degree of animosity towards people lower than you. Did you pick that up during the celtic tiger?

People in their “40′s”? So you judge someone by the way they look? Maybe those people in their “40′s” are working seasonal shifts/ part time? Maybe they worked most of their lives?

This is my last reply to u cos Im getting bored writing posts that are not getting read correctly. I personally know people in their 40,s who have never worked a day in their life but they continue to get everything for nothing, Im not looking down my nose at anyone i come from a council estate originally i work in a supermarket and i live in a 3 bed house so don’t know why u get the impression i think Im better than others, but i am and Will continue to be pissed off when i see people get everything for nothing having never contributed a penny on their life. So just incase i didn’t make myself clear i have no problem with those who genuinely need sw to survive my problem is with long term unemployed who never have and never will have a job because life is too easy on the dole. By the way i wasn’t off spending money i didn’t have during the boom and as far as i know the only person responsible for my liabilities is me.

Ann,

‘I’m not a racist but…’

Solid thought, and just /fair

Home schooling?

Ok let me elaborate, how would such a school linked payment scheme work with home schooled kids?

Scarr, home schooling , sorry take part in your state schools or look after things yourself

They have invented this new thing it’s called “technology”. However, if I could answer all these questions do you not think I would be up there in there quangos.

Sean

Would €15k free per year help you?

Cause that is how much each TD can claim in unvouched expenses. To me this is a clear case of theft and ensures we have the most corrupt politicians in the world.

They should be

I think the uk have / are bringing in a rule that you can only get x amount in benefits ( 24k I think). So if you have 8 kids, medical card, rent relief, single parent allowance etc that is all calculated as earnings to a max of 24k. You could argue it will feed the black market but it has to be tackled.

Might be worth considering but you would have to flag it for implementation more than a year from now, in order for it to be fair.

Agreed.

I think that receiving child benefit for a maximum of four children at any one time would be fair enough. Why should the state subsidise more that that?

Reg – 4 does sound like loads to have. It would certainly cut out the albeit rare cases of people having 6/8/10 kids that they cant afford to look after.

Think some of the comments on here are very sad. Where’s the support and kindness for your fellow human being or is being unemployed and having more than one child the new plague of society. I have 4 children – anyone care to meet me outside….and tell me to my face. There is a class war going on people and you’re just playing right into the governments hands.

Breda obviously people who are receiving payments for 4+ children would have to remain doing so but new entrants to the child benefit system should be restricted. Do you not think it pertinent to raise whatever children you have in your care without state aide? And I mean ‘you’ in a general sense.

So you think its ok for the state to support your children once you have under four of them, but its not ok for the state to support you if you have five or more. You made the choice to have one child the same way as some individuals made the choice to have five or more.

Reg: ‘you said why should the state support any more than four’, but why should they support one. What happens to a family where they have three children and decide to have one more because they both have well paid jobs and are doing well and end up pregnant with two or more thus leaving them over your thresh hold, and then one of them loses there jobs, but you are saying because they had more than four they are not entilited to have any more support.

Neasa, it’s the culture of entitlement that’s wrong,
I’m entitled to state payments for the children I decide to have,
I’m entitled to a TV if unemployed
Etc etc etc
Resources are limited , any help from the state is a bonus
Children’s allowance is justified as the only payment made by the state to the main home Carer , however there are limits to everything

Geez what’s with the red thumbs is it because I had the gall to have 4 children -(the labour force of tomorrow I might add) I should clarify that while I have 4 children only 2 that are entitled to Children’s Allowance, 2 are in college (paid for not by the state but by us) and while you may disagree with that – it is my right to have as many children as I like – this is a democracy the last time I checked – and not China! I did not pass the law on Child Benefit when it was introduced – I wasn’t even born – I did not have 4 children for any State Aid – it was given to me freely by the State and had no bearing whatsoever in our decision to have children. So Scarr I hope this answers your question. Again, I would like to reiterate that some people here lack human kindness and are quite happy sitting in their judgement seat – well – judge lest ye be judged!.

Breda of course you can have as many children as you like – have 20 for all anyone cares – it does not infringe on your human rights or turn us into China – but don’t expect tax payers to pay for your choices. As I said, 4 kids is plenty, have more and you better have the resources to fund them yourself. As an aside – I’ve long since thought that the human population is spiralling out of control. Resources people. Resources!

ahh Scarr I feel very sorry for you for I fear you will die a very lonely person with that attitude. You definitely smack as does some other comments, of being Anti family and you know what – that’s ok – because that’s your opinion and I respect it because this is a democracy and we are all entitled to lead our lives in whatever way we choose just as long as we abide by the common laws. But just remember my children will be paying for your old age!
It’s not the Child Benefit recipients that caused the recession instead, you should be looking towards this government who are insisting on the people of Ireland paying this odious debt.

Breda I agree with most of what you have said on this article, but disagree with your statement that your children will be paying for other people’s pensions. I have four children and expect that they will all probably end up working and paying for pensions outside the state, it’s obvious the government want our young out of the country.

Most people are unemployed by no fault of their own. Since 2008, Ireland suffered a credit crunch resulting in layoffs in the construction and retail sectors, to name a few. The domestic economy is among the biggest employers in this state, in case you didn’t realize. This is a European crisis also, for example in Spain where unemployment rate is about 26% while in Greece is about 27% approx. Few jobs are available, and I’m guessing the FF policy of allowing the EU accession members access to our labor market since 2004 contributed somewhat towards domestic unemployment when the crisis erupted four years later.

A hate-based policy against the unemployed won’t bolster your argument.

I agree with the sentiment. But that’s what you get with a conservative government. Policies were similar when FF were in power.

So first of all – they are going to get the tax from somewhere. So if you stop buying things (lets say houses for example) they will introduce more taxes to compensate (lets say a household tax, for example!)
- Car tax: If you miss a month you still have to pay for it. You don’t get off.
- VRT: No one is buying cars anyway and loads of jobs are being lost as a result.
- Bin charges: some good ideas there. Not everyone can do it though.
- Parking disks: We can’t avoid paying parking charges. Could cost jobs too if you stop parking in towns and only shop in retail centers. Maybe we should walk more?
- Excise duty: great hic…. idea hic… dskufw iuhfls laks hflkjsd hf (but you still pay VAT on the brewing equipment.)

So if you want lower taxes – go out and spend! This will help employment too.

You forgot a wealth tax, a dividends tax, an exit tax (similar to the U.S), and rolling back tax breaks which cost the taxpayer millions (if not billions) every year.

Indeed, it’s a sad state of affairs when you’ve to choose between a job and family.

Tell that next time you’re drawing your pension and free travel pass.

had to make that decision myself a few years back when I had 2 …have 3 now and less money and less as the government drive inflation with no regulation on mortgages or food prices or quality ….. did anybody else notice the E.S.B. through the roof this month ! …fairy lights are not that dear to run! …and that is all had extra and even then they were not on 24/7 …not by a long way! ….

Yes Jonny, but you got to remember that’s what a center-right government normally does. A left-wing government would have probably looked out for you better. Many voters don’t seem to see this.

You’re blaming the pro-lifes for what? Not objecting to parents getting child allowance for the 3rd child?

Or for taking away special needs teachers for traveller kids? What about special needs teachers for non-traveller kids? Do they not count?

I really can’t see the link between abortion and special needs teachers for traveller kids. Are you suggesting travellers should abort their special needs children?

When you mention “lifestyle dolers” you MUST ask why between 1997 and 2011:

Fianna Fail didn’t adequately invest in career skill programs (ever tried going into FAS?) ?
Fianna Fail put the career emphasis on a real estate bubble instead of diversifying the economy ?

It sounds similar to Fianna Fail’s USC introduced on “struggling parents”.

I meant system

What a stupid, selfish comment., Many couples who could afford to have kids did so before the economic collapse. There are families out there where both parents had good paying jobs but lost them through no fault of their own.

so what the rest of us should take up the tab for people who cant afford to raise their own kids?

Well you know today children are tomorrows government. Hope they don’t have the same attitude regarding your old age pension

Yes, just like those kids will be paying for your state pension, free travel and hospital care when you retire.

When I retire I’ll have paid into the pot my entire life I will have earned my pension.

Amazing the first real fortune teller I’ve ever come across. So you know that your going to be working and paying into a pension until you retire and never have to rely on the state. You are a living god and an idiot, none of us know what’s in store for us tomorrow, well maybe we do FG/lab will look for another way to rob the middle class

Moronically put. Clap clap.

stephen, how about you place the blame with the people who are responsible for this mess?

Stephen agree with the last line of your waffle

Werejammin – I do , the people who took out mortgages they couldn’t afford, the people willing to pay mad house prices , the now longterm unemployed builders who haven’t retrained , the longterm unemployed who weren’t working even in the boom , the labour party who refuse to cut spending now , and the government for bailing out the banks that should have been let fail.

werejammin

The Government would place the blame on them but they are either bankrupt in Ireland or other countries.

Yes, we should cut spending. The only way to bring everyone on board is to introduce a wealth tax in conjunction with steep spending cuts. We should also be closing tax breaks on the top 10 per cent such as:

- tax rebates on company cars
- group company tax breaks
- discretionary tax reliefs
- tax anomalies

This would help compensate the need for property tax or water charges.

A wealth tax doesnt work , the irish government should already be able to get us out of debt with spending cuts only , no more taxes.

You cant tax the wealthy job creators and companies who are the only ones keeping things going here

Stephen , profits should be taxed , give over with the rubbish that job creation would cease if reasonable taxes are imposed ,
Trouble with larger companies is that they don’t pay tax anywhere because people are brain washed with this drivel

“the irish government should already be able to get us out of debt with spending cuts only”

You cannot cut your way to prosperity. Tax breaks on the top 10 per cent outlined above should at least be rolled back if you’re opposed to a wealth tax. It’s not a one-way street. Wealthy cannot have it all their way. It doesn’t work like that in a country with a roughly 50:50 left:right population.

As usual S Church, you lack the knowledge of the world financial markets, and base all your comments/thinking on the micro economy that is Ireland

Wake up

Oh yeah right, it was all down to them cowboys in lehmans. Isn’t that the party line?

i agree, she should be sticking her finger up at us