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Dublin: 7 °C Tuesday 21 May, 2013

Eurozone: Irish bank debt will be re-examined by autumn

European ministers have also rubber-stamped an initial €30billion bailout for Spain.

French Finance Minister Pierre Moscovici scratches his head during the Eurogroup meeting
French Finance Minister Pierre Moscovici scratches his head during the Eurogroup meeting
Image: Yves Logghe/AP/Press Association Images

EUROZONE FINANCE MINISTERS meeting in Brussels have agreed to review Ireland’s bank debt by the autumn.

After nine hours of talks which focused on agreeing details of the Spanish bailout, EU Commissioner Olli Rehn announced that a timeline for re-examination of Ireland’s banking debt had also been set.

The Government has repeatedly expressed its hope that loans given to Irish banks could be removed from the national debt, lightening the repayment load on the taxpayer.

A decision on this will be taken by October, Rehn said. RTÉ correspondent Paul Cunningham tweeted:

paulctweet2

Meanwhile, the finance ministers agreed to offer Spain €30billion this month to help its distressed banks .

After nine hours of talks, Jean-Claude Juncker, the Luxembourg premier who also heads the Eurogroup , said a memorandum of understanding for Spain would be formally signed “in the second half of July,” with €30billion available by the end of the month.

Juncker, who has been in the job since 2005, was reappointed by the 17 ministers during talks beginning yesterday which ended well after midnight.

Spain, under increasing pressure as sceptial markets pushed its borrowing costs dangerously high again, had called for up to €100billion in direct aid at a June 28-29 “breakthrough” EU summit.

Aiming to keep the momentum going, ministers also agreed to extend a deadline for Spain to cut its public deficit to the EU 3.0 per cent limit by one year to 2014 because of the difficult economic conditions Spain faces.

At the same time, however, Juncker stressed that Madrid must implement measures needed to bring its public finances into line with EU norms.

No guarantees

EU economic affairs commissioner Olli Rehn said Spain’s public deficit – the shortfall of revenue to spending – was now expected at 6.3 percent of Gross Domestic Product this year, 4.5 percent in 2013 and then 2.8 percent in 2014.

Spanish Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy announced on Saturday that he would take additional steps soon to cut the public deficit and said “Europe must fulfil the accords as swiftly as possible.”

The June summit agreed that the ESM will be able to inject funds directly into needy banks, conditional on a new European bank regulator being put in place, so as to avoid adding to the debt burden of the affected state.

Asked if such a state would have to provide guarantees on such bank funding, Juncker answered with a simple “No.”

- Additional reporting by Michael Freeman

– © AFP, 2012

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Comments (31 Comments)

  • Short version: This is good. Long version: I have been (and remain) very sceptical about EU intentions with regard to giving us a deal on our bank debt. It seems rational that they will give us as little as they can get away with. If they got the time, I even think they’d try to structure the Spanish deal so that an equivalent deal for Ireland would have minimum value. We now have three things in our favour. Firstly, the Spanish have shown they don’t always play ball, and saving them is paramount. They won’t be interested in a deal with complexity and conditions injected just to screw Ireland. Secondly the ECB are backing us. The promissory notes will always be a open issue for them (that they *really* don’t want to solve) until someone takes it off their plate. ESM seems like the best bet, which is why they pushed for reference to Ireland’s bank debt in original announcement. Now thirdly, we have a deadline, which limits EU’s time and sets market expectation. Does it guarantee anything? No. Will we get most of our bailout money off the sovereign books? No. But is it good nonetheless? Yup.

    Reply
  • This should be interesting. Either we’ll see an accounting sleight of hand that will not fool the markets and still leave us on the hook for european bank debt, accompanied by much back slapping and press conferences by our flaccid government of course (likely scenario) or we will see the ECB pay us back by buying our failed banks for 4-5 times what they’re actually worth i.e.the money we pumped into them to save their asses (incredibly unlikely scenario)

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  • Enda got knocked over a flower pot by Ursula Halligan wielding only a microphone, of course he can’t stand up to Frau merkle in Europe.

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  • Once more there is no “Deal”….There is an agreement to “Examine” the bailout…!!!

    The Bull & Spin this bunch of pathetic Clowns manage to throw up & regurgitate periodically is criminal…!!!

    They are putting people in this country on the breadline….All the while looking after the Monied few…!!!!

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  • Kicked down the road again so they can have a long summer on taxpayers break.

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  • If shifting the bailout money off the sovereign books meant we don’t have to pay it back would be great but of course it means no such thing. Just a little accounting trick that will sound good but fool no one.

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    • Fagan's 10/07/12 #

      The EU has become the ultimate Corporatist State. The ultimate merging of big business and State interests, overseen by unelected officials.

      It makes sense then, that they use ever dirty accounting trick in the book, to keep up the pretense that is all for your good.

      Reply
  • Fagan's 10/07/12 #

    It looks good but this is the EU we are talking about. So we have to presume that it just “looks good” and is another can kicking exercise. As Karl Whelan described the last week of talks on this “a clown show”.

    People talk about the ESM’s fund of 700bn. It hasn’t one cent at the moment, and will build up the funds over next 2 years. It is expected to have 200 by yr end. If we and others get to set the bank debt aside, then the fund will use up all its money for this year. That is even before Spain Italy get bailed out.

    They are arguing and postponing decisions, that they cannot agree on, for a fund that is probably only a fifth of what is needed to make a meaningful change in this crisis.

    The EU/ECB is an incompetent joke and the continent will pay for a generation for indulging them and their imperial vision.

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  • At least there is a time line. Wonder how the markets will react.

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  • No thanks to Enda and his useless gang

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    • This is exactly thanks to the Government – Ireland is being specifically mentioned – how do you think that actually happened if it wasn’t for the Government’s intervention?

      They picked their time to make demands and they got results.

      (insert your moronic Enda-loving insults below this post)

      Reply
    • Actually Donal I think it was the ECB who were urging Ireland’s inclusion as well. However it remains to be seen what will be the end result. A debt right down on the banks or the ESM taking on the €32 billion of tax payers money? Change in the payment time scale and interest rates? Also what will happen to the promissory notes? Add to that all the countries who sign up for the fiscal treaty have to agree to any change in the t & c of our bailout deal. Finland and Holland have already indicated they are unhappy with the deal. Another issue waiting on the wings is the German constitutional court who are currently in session to decide if the terms of the fiscal treaty are unconstitutional under German law. If they agree that is unconstitutional then it’s back to the drawing board. A lot can happen between now and October.

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    • let me know when it’s done.
      …I wonder what spanner will be thrown in the works in September?

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    • Kerry, the IMF have also been urging a bank deal but I was just pointing out that it was actually thanks to our Government that it happened when it did. Equally, it could be said that it is thanks to them it didn’t happen till now.

      You are right re it all being unclear what will actually happen.

      I think the best we can hope for is a very good deal on the Promissory note. Basically lower the interest rate and extend the term so that it effectively gets inflationed away.

      We got shares for the other €30Bn we spent recapitalizing the remaining banks that are worth a fraction of what we put in. I just can’t see us getting more than those shares are worth.

      What they may do is convert some of our Sovereign debt to a very low interest long-term loan so that it also gets inflationed away.

      Of course, it could all still go tits up.

      Reply
    • So basically, Donal, what you are saying is that “thanks to our government” the best we can hope for from this ‘deal’ is more favourable terms with which to pay back other peoples debts for them?

      Hell of an achievement, no? And it still hasn’t happened.

      Kinda like the ‘deal’ on the promissory note that pushed it back 13 years, accumilating interest all the way. Kinda like the ‘deal’ on the interest that we got as a result of Greeces situation, not our governments negotiating skills. Kinda like the possibiity of direct bank recapitalisation we may see thanks to spain and italy acting in the interests of their peoples.

      When you say ‘thanks to our goverment’ what exactly are we thanking them for again??

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    • Too Trueleft, you are of course entitled to argue re the merits of what has been agreed overall and the history of how we got here.

      I was responding to a comment that said that what was agreed re the re-examination of our bank debt was no thanks to our Government.

      The sustainability of Ireland’s program was specifically mentioned after the initial deal.

      Clearly, that was not negotiated by anyone other than our Government.

      We now have a time table for this re-examination; clearly, this was also as a result of our Government’s intervention.

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    • Two points Donal…

      1. enda kenny clearly stated in the dail that the government was NOT seeking a deal on the banking debt. I’m sure you’ve seen the clip. Vincent Browne has been ramming it down the throat of every fine gael person on his program who contends, like you, that the government are over in europe fighting for a deal.

      2. You keep talking about how ‘clearly’ this has come about as a result of our governments ‘intervention’ and ‘negotiation’ (despite my point above. However, there is no deal, no details, no mention of anything you claim anywhere in the media, no second hand information about any of the things you mention etc.

      Isn’t it pretty obvious what has happened here and what you’re perpetuating. because we’ve seen it for the last 18 months repeatedly. Any mention of deals or changes to terms, whether directly or indirectly aimed towards Ireland, has the spin engine in full swing, press conferences, hand shakes, back slapping, and endless drivel about how the brave enda kenny and michael noonan are fighting our corner in europe, all while handing out billions while we’re distracted to the people they’re supposed to be putting it up to.

      Not another cent to the banks Donal, right?

      Reply
  • Two bottles of champagne please my good sir, we’re all saved!

    Reply
  • Damocles 10/07/12 #

    I wonder if the tide might actually be turning on the sovereign/bank debt issue and if Enda might be able to hang onto the coat tails of the efforts of other countries and actually sort something out.

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  • SIgnificant and continuing progress by this government in resolving the overhang of bank debt on the Irish sovereign and the respionse of the haters is “wahhh, waaahh, waaahhh”. Pathetic.

    Reply
    • It’s not progress yet though is it?? it’s still only talk.
      And even if Irelands debt is taken of the people of Ireland and moved to the people of Europe – it’s still the public supporting bank losses. Granted, it’ll be a massive relief for Ireland in the short term.

      Reply
    • Can you fill us in on this ‘significant and continuing progress’ you speak of please Desmond…….

      Reply
  • Karswell 10/07/12 #

    Perspective. It is unrealistic that the debt will be written off. The money must be accounted for and someone must pay in some form at some point in time. The who, how and when will be up for renegotiation, not the existence of the debt itself. No amount to teeth-gnashing and fist-waving will change this.
    It would be far more productive to put the energy and effort currently being spent on kicking this current government into trying to improve the daily life of the majority in Ireland, and making sure that we get the best deal possible. Focus on future benefits, not on past mistakes. Not for the government’s benefit, but for ours. As it is, the sniping at the government, whom we elected, hasn’t achieved much and, for all the vitriol, no-one has made any actual attempt to replace them.

    Reply
    • “It is unrealistic that the debt will be written off”. Greece got a debt write-off, and that was of monies that the actual soverign owed. Bearing that in mind, Ireland seeking a write-off of other peoples debts that it got criminally shouldered with is ‘unrealistic’?

      Don’t think so.

      Reply
    • Karswell 10/07/12 #

      Greece really shouldn’t be taken as a role model for Ireland. They’re current situation cannot by any means be taken as a success story. The reason behind their write-down was not an unwillingness to pay, it was that their finances, when “adjusted” to be within the realms of reason, showed that it would be impossible for them to pay. Visit Athens, see the huge benefit the write-off has had for the majority of the people. As has been clearly shown many times before on this website, comparisons between the Irish situation and the Greek situation don’t stand up to scrutiny.

      Reply
    • “Greece really shouldn’t be taken as a role model for Ireland”.

      I agree. It should be taken as setting a prescident for Ireland. Greece got the sovereign writeoff due to its unsustainability. The EU are now talking about a bank debt deal for Ireland due to ITS unsustainability.

      Now, if Greece got a write off of debts that the country ran up, the prescident has been set for Ireland to get a write off of debts that bankers ran up that was subsequently forced on us. In fact, there is a greater moral obligation to act in Irelands case.

      Reply
    • Karswell 10/07/12 #

      And what will you do to make his a reality? What have you done to replace a government which you believe to be opposed to the interests of the people in this country?
      I absolutely believe that a write-off will not happen. I would be very happy to be proven wrong. But in the world away from this website, there is a complete lack of a constructive campaign fighting for such a write-off. It won’t happen by magic. We are offering no incentives for a write-off, and the many incentives for denying us a write-off are a valid as ever. Without leverage, there is no argument. And there is no leverage.

      Reply
    • Karswell 10/07/12 #

      Making moral decisions is not the function of the EU – it was and is a market and economic union. The EU does not exist to make us happy and pure of heart, it exists to facilitate trade. They managed to get our previous government to make a bad deal. The powers-that-be ate not interested in the greater good, they are interested in ranunculus stability. We were never promised happiness and joy, we can’t feel bitter that we don’t have these things..

      Reply
    • I was not elected to fight for a deal and to stop pouring money into dead banks Karswell, our government was. So theres no point asking me what I’m doing, I’m more active that most people out there are, both online and offline through the campaigns I play an active role in. Again though, questions about what you’re doing about getting a deal should be directed at the people we are employing to demand a better deal, our flaccid non-voice at the european table of ministers.

      Reply
    • Karswell 10/07/12 #

      Then lobby a TD to put forward a motion to call for a vote of no confidence. For all the whining over the last year, no-one has done so. If you truly believe that the majority of the population feels they are been ill-served, then talk with the elected Left. In other words, put your money where your mouth is.

      I personally would not do this, as I believe to replace the government now would do more harm than good, incompetent as they are. But I, unlike you, am not calling for their heads on spikes at every opportunity. Take credible action, and you’ll have both my respect and support. But not until then.

      Reply

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