There is nauseating hipocracy, on BOTH sides of this argument.
Where are all the feminists, speaking out about, (for example), the many cases each year of (female) gendericide in India?
The termination of pregnancies because of female gender, has been highlighted by the UK Telegraph as happening in the UK.
Why are all the Womens rights groups so silent on this? There are human rights concerns, each day, connected to abortion, happening all over the world. But you are not going to read about them, on most mainstream Irish media.

Zoe, women go to the UK for an abortion out of necessity as they’re committing a crime if they do it here. I doubt it’s done for gender selection or vanity reasons.

An Indian woman in Ireland, Savita Halappanavar didn’t want an abortion because of gender selection or vanity, she wanted it to save her life and didn’t get it.

I agree, – there are many valid & good reasons for the ‘pro choice’ view.
But there is still TWO sides to this debate, – and in most media we are only hearing one side, (ie. the ‘pro choice’ side).
Gender selection IS happening in many parts of the world, – and this cannot cannot be dismissed or denied. So too is the termination of unborn children, who may have various disabilities or other medical conditions.
This is a human rights issue, (& for me, has nothing to do necessarily, with the catholic church).
Human rights issues each day, all around the world, connected to abortion, are happening.
It’s just that the media decides which ones we get to hear about.

Zoe. The gendercide accusations in the UK were outed as propaganda weren’t they? And the reports of children being killed for minor abnormalities were greatly exaggerated too – as reported here on the journal during the week.

It does however happen in developing nations where there is either a one child policy or extreme poverty (meaning that males are favoured). These issues are not caused by abortion – they are caused by social inequality. Remove that social inequality and there will be no reason for anyone to commit gendercide.

And please – you keep insisting that the general media has a pro choice preference, which is patently ludicrous. How often do RTE neglect to acknowledge the existence of pro choice marches? How many Irish newspapers tried to insinuate that Praveen Hallapanavar had made up his wife’s requests for abortion?
There are some media sources which lean one way and some that lean another – there’s no overriding slant to the entire media.

Thats pretty shocking stuff. The eastern part of the world places little value in the sanctity of life. Makes us look good by contrast.

I am atheist. Raised by parents who were not religious. I have not recieved any sacraments of the catholic church. I oppose abortion in all cases except where the life of a mother is in danger such as medical complications or suicide. I will never agree with the system in uk where a woman can literally book in get an abortion witj no questions asked.

Hi Zoe,

The issue of sex-selective termination was actually discussed by a representative from Choice Ireland at the Oireachtas hearings last month. Reams and reams written on the subject elsewhere if you take the time to look. It should be fairly obvious which side of the debate seeks to perpetuate a world where Male children are favoured as women are perceived as lesser.

Who asked you, Tom? You can do whatever you want as far as I am concerned, if you happen to undergo pregnancy. As for my body, I want to decide what I will do.

You should look up the organisation, Women’s Rights Without Frontiers, Zoe. Reggie Littlejohn, the president of this organisation is doing great work trying to combat forced abortions, gendercide and sex trafficking. She has really raised awareness of these issues that have destroyed the lives of countless women.

shanti om says “there’s no overriding slant to the entire media”

I’d have to disagree with you on that ,The 50-50 broadcasting coverage rule does not apply to print or online news coverage.

this is particularly evident at EU referendum times where you could say ‘collectively’ all Journalists unite to take a “vote yes” approach , I personally have never read an article in an Irish Newspaper calling for a No vote in any EU referendum to date , one article in particular still sticks in my head , its an article that appeared in the Irish Daily Mail , it was in the weeks coming up to the Fiscal Treaty , it was a two page spread telling us all we’d end up like Greece if we voted no , they even had the vice mayor of athens telling us we better vote yes or we’ll end up like them, this is only one in hundreds appearing in Irish Newspapers coming up to the Fiscal Referendum all of which were aimed at scaring people into voting yes rather than an in depth analysis of the actual policies contained within the document

Freebies, with all due respect – I was referring to how the media cover the issue of abortion.
RTE have a very obvious anti choice bias. As does the Indo.
Zoe was trying to insinuate that all the Irish media was pushing a pro choice agenda and I was pointing out that they clearly don’t, as I have done before, but Zoe didn’t seem to take it on board because she’s trotted out the same accusation here again..

Children who are in care today are wards of the state. Many are failed by that state, 200 dead in 10 years. The state has now decided that the termination of the lives of some pre-birth children is the way to go to avoid social problems. What were you saying about turning blind eyes?

Is that you bishop jones??

Totally agree Laurence, – the outrage is highly selective. As you say the many children/teens who have been failed by state care, – no outcry over this.
And the cases of unborn children in the UK terminated, – because of conditions such as cleft palate, or club foot, or Downs Syndrome, – no outrage over this either.

The % rate of child deaths in state care is lower than national child death rates. Statistically a child is safer in the hands of the state than anywhere else. Selectively using figures without providing the context.

Zoe. Please check out the eurocat article on here during the week. The figures on abortions carried out for the reasons you describe have been widely misinterpreted. Their incidence is extremely rare, and often coincide with other conditions.

Well, I just hope you are right.
If what Eurocat have said originally, is correct, – then that does not bear thinking about.

Eurocat never said it to start with Zoe. Their report was misinterpreted by other media sources, please read:
http://www.thejournal.ie/reports-on-abortions-over-minor-foetal-abnormalities-incorrect-says-eurocat-784069-Feb2013/

Well if the Journal says it, then thats ok. Again, – I hope you are right.

I’m not sure that the Elphin Dioscsecan Advisory Council has much to do with killing gays in Uganda

The Catholic church whose beliefs they follow supports the killings, or rather the murders, with that being the word that pro-life supporters seem to associate with any legislation which supports abortion

I’m not sure that the Elphin Dioscsecan Advisory Council has much to do with killing gays in Uganda

- Sure all they are, are fee paying members of an organisation that supports the killings and their leader merely blessed the main supporter of the initiative who is on record as offering the legislation as a gift to the church – Its not like people should be judged by the organisation they financially support

It’s a clever trick to make it easier to spot who’s pregnant and keep an eye on them.

Where abortion is available it is rarely used for medical emergencies. Using rare tragedies as a pro abortion rallying opportunity is foolish as the outcome will be abortions i.e. the murder of thousands of babies for convenience

Tomnewmanuman, nobody will ever force you to have an abortion. What is your reasoning for forcing a woman to remain pregnant against her will? Why this need to control her?

Abortion should not be a means of birth control. That is simply wrong.

Irish women don’t use abortion as birth control. A pack of condoms or a prescription for the pill is far less expensive than paying for a flight or the boat, hotel stay and a medical procedure in a foreign clinic.

When it comes to money, the Catholic Church tends to ignore the diktats it expects the rest of us to follow.

Compassion is compassion and bigotry is bigotry. Why doesn’t Hollywood or UN or National Art gallery or Rte etc sell everything and give it to charity might be your next campaign

Hollywood and the National Art Gallery don’t take a vow of poverty (while wearing Prada slippers!).

Tom, it’s because those things serve a function. The church built an empire on the belief that as members of the faith, people are obliged to donate money for that privilege. An empire that is immeasurably wealthy, yet they hoard it for themselves in the name of self-preservation and maintaining their status by way of showing their wealth.

@ Daisy – if you’re referring to the Pope, he hasn’t taken a vow of poverty. Common misunderstanding that all priests take such a vow; they don’t.

It’s a baby now?

Is the medical term not a foetus ?

Once it’s born it is,

How is that being born?

If it ever happened to you you’d know.

What is that even meant to mean?

When these women with unviable to life foetus are SENT to Liverpool they are induced, this means they give birth to a baby whether it is alive or dead it is a BABY. You are in fact not worth any more of my time, go and fast and say. Few prayers like a good little boy

Good point, Rachel. The Catholic church is an exclusively male run organization. Their condemnation of abortion is all about ensuring the subordination of women to men.

Nice try sweetly. But you will need to do better than that.

In the name of secularism you accuse people of witchcraft?

At least they get the choice!

Pity some of those hypocritical catholic loonies don’t advocate fasting till the magdalene laundry survivors get apologies and compensation.

May I ask what qualifies you to say that the AG and the Supreme Court ruling is “wrong”? And while we are at it – care to explain why the Irish people were wrong in two referendums?

Dermot, you’ve never been pregnant and suicidal simultaneously, so neither you nor I can say that “abortion is no cure for threatened suicide”. Is it not considerable that in the infinite number of possible personality traits that we have as the unique beings that we are, that the termination of a pregnancy may indeed relieve the feelings and thoughts that may have been causing that woman to be at risk of suicide? Mental health issues are being completely intentionally misinterpreted by the religious factions to serve their pro-life argument, and frankly I am quite ashamed that I live in a country that refuses to give mental health the attention it deserves, and that it sorely needs.

@ Dermot, what a terribly confused and confusing reply.

The original PLAC wording only addressed the right to life of the foetus , making no mention of the pregnant woman. The proposed referendum wording was then altered to equate the right to life of the foetus with the right to life of the pregnant woman. Three Attorneys General identified the legal defects in the revised wording, in particular the risk that the legal uncertainty could result in the death of the pregnant woman.

The four majority judgments in the X case made a valiant attempt to remove the more pernicious effects of Article 40.3.3 but could not cure the defective wording. The repeal of Article 40.3.3 of the Constitution would go some way to clearing up the current legal mess. It was a good example of how the intrusion of Roman Catholic Church into the arena of law produced bad results.

Of course it is a rather fanciful and unreal notion to equate a foetus with a woman. There is no comparison. The life, the health and the welfare of the woman should take priority and that is the only sensible solution.

Forcing a pregnant woman to go full term is a form of slavery but we know that the Roman Catholic Church has a moral blind spot about slavery.

Anyone have the literature from any texts on suicidal ideation in pregnancy where abortion is viewed as a treatment? The hearings on abortion made it quite clear that abortion is not a treatment for mental health issues in pregnancy.

Maria, was that coming from the priests the government invited to the hearings, or the priest lackeys in the Iona Institute?

@ Maria – spot on – also same names doing the Church bashing with same worn out arguments.