Johnaton at present rate you can’t meet your mortgage. Why did you take out a mortgage that is about 90% of your pay??

His pay is down average 40% since buying house. everything else has gone up through no fault of his so put a sock in it

lets be honest, 329€ is not your take home pay

FF were anti-unions (remember November 2009).

I’m calling nonsense on your 40% claim

Call anything you like because youre either a troll or an arsehole. Fact is Garda pay is down about 40% since 2007. An sorry to burst your bubble about how you keep the country going but take away the vast majority of public servants and the country closes down.

How is it down 40%?

Pension levy, USC, tax on allowances, abolishing of other allowances and ban on overtime in about 90% of cases. New Roster has further reduced pay.

So his gross pay hasn’t been reduced. He is just paying the same taxes as everyone in the land and his own pension.
This shows the difference between the 2 sectors private sectors always talk about there gross pay where as public talk about net pay.
At the end of the day this is about the cost to the employer so its gross. Every man women and child in this country has had an increase in taxes. But the private sector don’t call it a pay cut as they realise how economics work

Yes it is what planet are u living in

I got my mortgage in 2006. It is a 40 year mortgage. My take home pay has dropped by €700 a month since the start of the cuts so I didn’t take a mortgage of 90% of my salary.

Also private/public sector debate is a non starter for me Brian. My family are all in the private sector and I know it’s hard for everybody. It doesn’t help anyone.You’re just plain wrong too by the way. Public sector have extra tax deductions which are just headed as pension related which amounts to around €55 a week on top of the other taxes you mentioned. That €55 a week in no way contributes to my pension by the way. It’s just a tax. Like I said don’t slate me I’m just being honest.

Is this Garda pay? Or Garda allowances? What has your gross basic pay reduced by?

The biggest thing is shift work. Not all but a huge amount of members will spend their career in a shift pattern working at all hours. This can be very bad for your health and has a big impact on your social life.

It is time for the Gardai take the moral high ground. They have been doing a job in what has become increasingly dangerous and hazardous circumstances due to the neglect of any duty of care shown by this government . Smart policing is about less cars less stations less pay less security for you and me ! Is Ireland the only country in Europe to cut police pay during a recession !! A democratic society cannot function without an effective well resourced police force and this government will one way or another be shown that.

Good post John. Alan Shatter has spent his life using the Dail to top up his income. He has done nothing of note in politics and only got this ministerial position because he expected it

Shatter….

Some lad.

Have to be careful how I describe him. The red thumbs are rats.

So hood, so real
APF

Adebayo, you’re some howl.

Is it because u thinks u is black

Dont fall into the them and us trap. We are all low paid or unemployed fighting against crippling austerity. A Public Sector worker.

Well John its going to come to a crippling crash and when it does both private and public sector workers will lose. See the problem is that the private sector worker hates the public sector, infact most of Ireland hates the public sector with a passion because of there greed and constant moaning. There is way too many public sector workers in this country, half need to go. Sure just look at the sheer amount of them in here.

And John your a hypocrite. You posted a comment just before this one saying about the gardai you know who lives in a big 4 bedroom house with two 12d cars and off on there Florida holiday, and just like that you change your opinion. haha typical dumb paddy.

Read it again, two different persons but same name , who a dumb mr know now, ha ha yourself

I think you will find in most developed countries that public jobs are lower paid. Look it up. The country cannot afford to be spending more that it takes in. That is just cold economic fact

Mattie it’s impossible for 2 people to be called John Murphy, it’s too unusual a name!

eagle eye are u a garda

Private sector is waiting for the excuse… make us more competitive… everything gets cheaper- a house will be 25K :)

Absolutely slash ever bodies only stop when the country can sustain the pay levels

An we could double tax bracket for private sector aswell that would get us sorted quicker, simple

Vinny private sector employees are what keeps the state going. Unlike the public sector employees when the money coming is less than money going out. The job is gone. This is what is happening the money in is significantly less than money in.
Simple economics.

Every cut has a price. When front line public servants default on mortgages, loans and turn to social welfare for assistance will you be happy. The reality is that proud, professional working people whom we all depend on for our society to function are crying “Stop this madness. We have given all we can but another cut will destroy our families and our society. We have given all we can to Ireland’s recovery”. Im public sector and I love my job, but the paycuts being proposed are so draconian that they simply must be defeated.

Well said Brian!

Statistically farming is more dangerous than being a guard

There paid more than there employer can afford

http://taxcalc.eu/

Interesting, given the state of average wages in this country. No pension either of course.

That’s from everyone payed by the state, all allowances expect those related to unsocial hours

eagle eye you do need medical help . you are both insulting and vindvictive

Suit and tie?!,

4 years ago we took our cut to play our part in the economic recovery. The country was in a worse state then than it is now. Unfortunately, some have mistaken seen this as a sign of weakness and reckoned that we were an easy touch. There’s only so far you can push someone before they push back.

*mistakenly

Point should be there will be NO further recruitment for the foreseeable future…

That depends on what their pay and conditions would be and we don’t know that yet. Look at their scheme to recruit 1000 nurses at 80% normal starting pay: apparently they received 100 applications before the deadline and have switched to what they call a “rolling deadline” until the 1000 quota is reached, which it may never be.

They can strike or call in sick as much as they like. As long as they get their wages docked, then who cares?

Private sector workers have the legal right to strike whenever they chose. Gardai and Army do not. They are not even allowed to communicate with the press or even their TD’s on any matter related to their service.

Seriously I don’t know one person working in the private sector who has had their wages cut !
Their is a large section of our society on the dole and possessing more expendable income at the end of every week than those who work, pay tax and lay a mortgage !!! Oh and we still pay out €92 million in overpayment of social welfare in 2011 and some how it’s ok to take €60 from Garda pay !!

Mick, everyone I know has had their wages cut.

No point keeping a job that doesnt pay the bills or put food on the table. And the private sector can strike only difference is alot of private sector companies have given pay rises in the last few months

Really!?! No one in the PS took a pay cut?

I lost 80 euro / week in last round cuts.. Now the want to refuse my 325 euro/week take home by another 60 euro/ week??
I’d nearly be better off on the dole!

*reduce

Spellcheck:(

Mick,
My gross wages are down 45%. That’s before all new taxes and charges are taken into account. I work in the private sector. So now you know one person.
I still agree with the Gardai. They have given enough. As someone said on a previous article, they should be separated from the rest of the Public sector.

You obviously don’t know many public sector workers.. My partners wages are down almost 40%

You obviously don’t know any public service workers. My partners wages are down 40%…

Liam was your gross wage cut or are you down because you are now contributing towards your healthy pension? Or paying more taxes like all others

Both I’m afraid.

I wonder if an unemployed man with similar family circumstances to me was told he was going to have his dole of 325 cut by 80/week, how would the general public react? There would be an unholy outcry defending this man, and rightly so. So why is it ok to expect me to take this hit?

If the unemployed mad was getting that much there would be no one working

Last I checked unemployed man gets circa 190 for self, 130 dependent adult(wife) and circa 30/child

Total before medical card/ back to school etc circa 380..

You would be better off on the dole.

True. Maybe that’s shatters master plan to reduce garda numbers!!! Force them into the dole ;)

It doesn’t matter anymore Enda. This government is not on our side. Strike on!

Liam Kelly Get A Life, Just Goes To Show You Have Shag All Else To Worry About. Spell Check What A Muppet.

for everyone of these guards u know there are the 1s who can’t afford the Garda medical aid. this Garda health ins was set up by the Gardai themselves. I know a lot who have stopped this health ins. the younger Gardai (and 60% r under 10 years) r under severe pressure as their salaries r poor n they bought during d boom

The “Garda Medical Programme” as you so put it costs €3900 a year for a family of 3 children… €75 per week. It’s a common misconception that Gardai have this magical health insurance as a perk… The Medical Aid Society is a private health company set up by members themselves and costs the tax payer no more than vhi or Aviva

You’re illegal.

Call the Gardai and report it

Lost of things done in this country are illegal, this is a good thing, frontline public sector can’t take anymore fair play to them!

It’s not illegal to be sick

To strike is illegal, to call in sick in the masses is not. Although, calling in sick without any repercussions is just a usual day in the public sector! When will everyone who works in the public sector realise the are paid too much and have it too easy. Probably be red thumbed to death here but needs to be said. It should, though, start from the top. #becauseimworthit – not!

Striking is illegal but all of them calling in sick isn’t.

I’m sure the gardai who qualify for family income supplement and have medical cards.. The govts own measure if low paid will take comfort in your generalisation that all PS workers are well paid!

@ Sean
You Saying “I’ll probably be redthumbed” is like that scene from Taladega Nights when Will Ferrall says “with all due respect” before openly insulting someone, thinking it’ll some how justify an idiotic outburst! These proposed cuts are targeted at our Frontline Workers! It’s an attack on shift & weekend & public holiday pay!! These cuts won’t affect the general public sector office worker or the men upon high!! It’s an attack on Gardai, Firefighters, Paramedics, Nurses etc! Are you saying the latter group are over-paid!?!?!

That’s rubbish, frontline staff are struggling the same as the rest of us and there job is a lot harder, enough of this s€€t, we shouldn’t be doing this, oh he deserves a cut and I don’t, it is clear the government have targeted people on middle income, knocked them down to lower income and are going after them again for more cuts.all the while making sure the bankers and bondholders get all there money! This government, whether you are private public, unemployed, old, young, unborn or emigrant, they have screwed us all.

I believe the only way for real change is not going around in circles form FF, FG and labour. I strongly believe it is time to give SF and the independents, they couldn’t do a worse job then what that lot have done. Ignore media propaganda ( media is owned by rich business men who stand to lose money if SF get into power, they not goin to support that they going to try and stop that at our expense, just look at the spin on the prom note so called deal) go do some finding out for yourself. I just think we need to try a different approach this is theft and destruction at the hands of corrupt politicians, its a disaster and has to be stopped. All the have done is pass the debt onto my generation and my future children.

@sean

….overpaid AND have it easy?

Wiseup

Certain ranks and positions in the public sector are paid too much like the commission in the guards but his pay is not being cut, the government are talking about cutting the ordinary guards pay by €500 a month, thats €11,000 a year thats on top of the universal social charge and pension level that depending on lenght of service works out at between €6,000 to €9,000 if you cut a persons pay by what could be up to 50% in the space of 4/5 years while their conditions at work and equipment they use deteriorates, before you compair their pay cuts to the private sector take the following into account, guards are retiring and are not being replaced, they had overtime in the past to make up the shortage of guards but now they just have to make do, crime is on the increase despite what shatter says as top management are under pressure to record crimes differently so as not to increase the figures, unlike the private sector the guards is not a profit making organisation, in reality the guards have never been so busy, have less members to deal with crime, have less members per head of population than most counties in the developed world, what business in the private sector when they are at their busiest ever would reduce its work force and stop paying overtime and then introduce massive pay cuts.

@ Nuff – yep, I’m saying, compared to other country’s around the world, they are largely overpaid.

@Liam – Are you serious? Show me one full time, regular, Garda member who meets your criteria, not the trainee. Tell me, if you ran the country, how would you save money? AND, lol, thanks for the suggestion, am currently speed reading the idiots guide to running the public service. Grow up and actually have a real debate.

well said man.

I am a full time garda member.. 7 years service.

So then?

When comparing to other countries did you take into consideration, standard of living in those countries, tax rates, quality of equipment used by the other countries police, standard of investigation of crimes reqired by courts in those countries, price of property, inflation rate, lenght of service required until entitled to a pension?

So, http://www.gra.cc/pay__scales_budget_2010.shtml – the GRA’s own figures showing you earning €40,000+ per year isn’t enough for you and your family to live on? That’s more than 90% of private sector employees wages! That’s without you doing overtime @ €32 per hour. If your claiming social supports then you should be investigated for fraud! Unless, and I do mean this sincerely, you have other extenuating circumstances.

Red Robin
Falsely reporting illness while drawing wages could be considered either theft or fraud. For Members of An Garda to indulge in such behavior could result in their employment being terminated with prejudice and a case being brought against them by the DPP.

@ my opinion – yes, and I also took into account ‘number of sick days’ and ‘overtime rates’!

@ Sean
The ‘My Opinion’ lad beat me to it. His comment sums up my argument retort perfectly!

All this talk about front line workers being targeted. Well guess what the whole private sector has been targeted 400k don’t have jobs. The front lines employers are insolvent and borrowing money to make pay roll. Simple matter of fact is that we as a country can not afford to pay the wages. It’s unfortunate but its a fact.

Sean, in fairness I take home 325 a week… Irrespective if what the annual salary is, such is the level if deductions that come out of my wage per week. Single income family 2 children… Would I be better off on the dole?

The point is I will be 80 a week down if the proposed allowances are cut. I agree that the public sector wage bill is inflated, but the high earners, my supervisors etc will NOT be affected by allowance cuts, as the allowances don’t apply to them. This is the reason I and others in my shoes feel we should stand and say no more!

Making general assumptions and quoting annual wages is not a true reflection of how I am barely managing week to week. Any more deductions and I fear I and my family will go under.

I will say no more on the matter, obviously you have made up your mind that I’m overpaid..

But we can afford to take on private banking debt screwed up country and government!

To receive that rate you would have to have 8 plus years service, over 60% of the guards have less service than that therefore your arguement does not relate to the majority of then. Also overtime rates are like saying there is provision for everyone to get a free car in the guards, all good and well on paper but no one is getting overtime anyways so the rate might as well be €1,000 an hour. Over time is taxed to death to the point of for every two hours overtime worked you actually take home less than then the one hour rate. In all reality when you work two hours overtime and after you take into account deductions you have for all intents and purposes worked one of those hours for free

They will have to work hard for their money now

500 a month by 12 is not 11000 its 6000. As its before tax your looking at 300 cash a month.

@brian My apologies your absolutely right

Ur a gobsh1te sean who has not got a clue. Good bye!

Liam, that’s the thing about debates, we hear both sides. Look, I and a lot of others in the private sector, can only go by the figures that are available. As the GRA is your representative organisation they quote the take home pay of a 7 yr Garda member as 525 per week. I, and most reasonable people, would think that’s a pretty good take home per week. So why is there such a big difference?
Liam, I’m a reasonable man, if that’s all you get then I really hope action is taken. Social welfare is a joke as well, €400 per week for a family of 2 adults and 2 kids plus your rent paid for you – actually works out more for you than your current take home pay. My mind is never made up, I speak about facts alone Liam.

@ David – Thanks for the contribution, your obviously a lovely man yourself.

Sean …. (1) It’s very easy to comment on the lengths that some sectors such as Garda have to go to so as just to be listened to by a dept or a minister…. If a sector isn’t permitted strike then they are handcuffed and there’s no protections built in for the worker – You’re effectively given a “take what we offer you”, “do what ur told” and Ignored…
(2) There’s other situations where people could effectively decide that a job isn’t worth it and way back at last dispute in 98 they could have all sent in resignations/retirements in-block and achieved same result and insisted on “full reinstatement for all” only it would have caused chaos for the dept as regards admin and return to work…
(3) you say over paid and have it too easy…. In Gardai there is no “carrying a gun” allowance…. There is no “getting shot at allowance” … There is no “danger money” allowance.. There is nothing but the remuneration for doing the job. If you take on additional work, additional responsibilities and additional risks such as being assaulted, stabbed, stuck with needle, or just the usual public order situations such as 5 or 6 lads around you while you’re lying on the ground getting the head kicked off you and hoping assistance will b along quickly then u deserve the pay …
**** If you dont want to pay a Garda for being on call 24/7/365 then don’t expect him to be available. Like BSE & foot and mouth at border, Gardai were transferred from 1 end of country to other & away from family.

So guards who have been assaulted and suffered serious injury are overpaid. Guards are not being paid enough would you go and be a guard and suffer abuse and even have the risk of being assaulted or even killed and still be paid on a Garda salary.

Everyone’s take home us different, tax credits etc.

If I went in the dole tomorrow I’d get @ 380/week.

It’s the same for most frontline.. Cut the upper echelons of the PS, those on 90K plus, not us who are struggling

* is different

Grrr autocorrct

@ Liam – I completely agree.

50% of €40000 = €20000 less average 13200pa mortgage repayments = 6800.
6800 – 3120pa for travel to and from work (60€ diesel per week) = 3680. Car and house insurance average 700 = 2980. Not alot let out of 40000 for food esb gas and all the other costs of living

Sorry Vinny, tell that to the rest of us in the private sector, we’re all in the same boat.

Brian if the people who run the country are broke then will u be happy to pay 50 or 55% income tax, surely with such matter of fact solutions for the economy you will take more pain yourself? Also 400 thousand people loosing their job is not a good argument for not paying some of the people who havnt lost theirs. Surly someone like you understands that

Ya sean but i dont go around pretending that your paid a fortune and saying that your pay should be cut or your taxes increased. Mind you, neither do you

@ John

1) No argument here other than to say if the Gardai were given the right to strike the civil unrest could get out of control.
2) Agreed to a point.
3) Like I said during the Nurses debate, its all part of the career path chosen. If you ask any Garda member did they sign up based on the money they receive I’m sure the answer would be no. My statement about over paid etc was a general one targeted at the PS as a whole.
**** I actually think the closure of Garda Stations around the country is the real big mistake. I appreciate days away from families etc like given in your example, but isn’t that why O.T. Is €32 per hour?

Ya dont get overtime for days away from family. In alot of cases you get nothing and thats fact

They’re moany holes.

Top comment there Padraig.

Sean … I can see the balanced side of you argument and in an ideal world the argument would be valid… Yes re career path but when u apply to be a garda while you are aware that it can be risky you look at it through rose coloured glasses and you see the Glam side of it, the excitement, the helping others etc but you don’t focus on the heavier side or u’d never join….. Just like when u put on your stab proof vest you don’t stop to think (this might save me from bring stabbed)…. You just treat it as item of uniform like your hat. You couldn’t function professionally and would be a liability to your colleagues if you had a constantly switched on fear… You often have to just get by on your wits, adrenaline and an ability to talk/negotiate to defuse a situation where you are isolated and out numbered. The first Garda/Gardai to arrive at a row often have to wade in and help members of the public and take the injuries inflicted on them while back up is on way…..

Pay for working Sundays, public holidays & night duty is not all
Overtime… In fact most of this duty is done on rostered duty… I was rostered to work christmas day & Stephen’s day and I worked it not because I wouldnt take a days leave & enjoy with family but because I’m on a small unit, myself & one other and you don’t let the side down. ….. There are many who travel long distances to work and they don’t get to see kids open Santas presents (big event in my eyes) or don’t get to go out for new years eve

All I’m after is fairness, if your bringing home €325 per week after 7 years then I’ll happily stand next to you and fight for your rights. If the GRA focused publicity on this figure vs what’s available from the social there would be a lot more public support.

So is economic treason I see nobody from FF in cuffs. As is political corruption yet minster Riley is int in cuffs as is extortion yet minister Howlan is not in cuffs etc.

Not to mention more provision of services, free health, better childcare provision, more efficient public transport..etc. Our take home pay in this country has to cover a lot more, so you cant just compare 1 countries take home pay with anothers. You have to look at it in the context of these parameters.

@sean
Tell us what you work at so we can systematically break down your wages and do a good comparison

Fair enough – I was made redundant over a year ago, then I decided to start my own business a couple of months ago providing web and graphic design services. I will, hopefully, have 3 staff hired within the next 3 months and am currently taking about €200 out of the business per week until its fully established. So I’m living off my redundancy and about €200 per week at the moment with a mrs and 3 kids to feed. I’m hoping it will be successful and, with a bit of luck, and some 18 hour days, I’ll probably pay myself €40,000 per year if it is. If not… Well, that’s the risk I’ll be taking not working in the public sector or for an established company and am not going to think about that yet. I’ve never asked anyone to disclose what they take home, its published on the GRA website. If you’ve read all my posts you’ll see my opinions and I think they’re fair and reasonable (jokes aside).

@sean I have read your comments and commend you on setting up your business. I genuinely hope it works out and best of luck. The problem with the guards is that they like all public sector workers were asked to pay a pension levy. They did. Then take a pay cut. They did. Now work more for less. They did. Now with station closures, limited fleet, no back up, no chance of movement or transfer it has taken its toll. Now asked to take another hit that will affect not only now but your pension is too much.

Now before I’m jumped on over the pension issue we do pay for it. I view it this simply that for days spent away from family at those special moments and 30 years of dealing with being attacked you deserve it.

Sean … Fair dues to you for being entrepreneurial & possibly adding jobs….. You have a skillset much in demand & trained in an area where there can be huge potential…. Unfortunately many people who left college and committed themselves to a career as Garda don’t have the fall back of the up to date skillset….. I myself studied at 3rd level, firstly in the business admin field concentrating on accountancy & foreign languages. I then found my interest was computer programming…. When recruitment for Gardai restarted after a moratorium, I left good opportunities behind to follow a career path I had always dreamed of. Over the years, When I met people I was doing the same course as & I saw they had big cars and houses compared to my semi-D then I often wondered “what if” but I never regretted it – not til now … Morale is lower than Ground-Zero …

Some of the Gardai who contact me over the past year have been asking for a redundancy package…. They would love to be in the situation you are… They want to get out but theyre boxed in & if they leave they get nothing… A paltry reduced pro-rata pension deferred to age 65…… They would love to be in your situation Where they get €200 a week & have a lump sum to draw from (maybe none this week but ability to take €100 to €200 xtra the next week or even any amount of the lump sum…. Some are excellent carpenters or mechanics & could start again but they are being offered no exit package . All not rosy as a garda

Whats the name of your company sean?

@Sean

And in comparison to other countries, what is the cost of living?

The real problem is that that workers in the private sector are being paid too little. They need to start standing up for themselves and stop trying to knock others.

I fear Sean is one of the 26% of brainwashed gombeens who plan voting FF in the next election. There is just no reasoning with some people.

I take your point John. It would be political suicide to mention the word redundancy in Government so I can’t ever see that happening.

Sorry Vinny, it’s only Michael O’leary who thinks that there’s no such thing as bad advertising and with the red thumb whacking I’ve had tonight, it could be buisness suicide. My own views are just that, and no reflection on my work either way, so would rather not say. And to the previous poster about my voting views… No, I’m sticking with Labour, probably as the only support I got whilst setting up my business was from a local Labour Councilor and a Labour Senator. Realistically… Is there much difference between any party these days?

Sean labour, for parish politics reasons, sorry to hear that as most of your opinions were based on a national view , frontline workers wouldn’t be as annoyed of these cuts were across the board, stop allowances if you like but acknowledge nights and weekend work and public holidays, there are plenty of dubious allowances payed by the state before you think of these allowances

I agree Shay, but here’s the 3 scariest words to a politician…. Croke Park Agreement.

€325 a week? What! My mate is working in O’Briens making sandwiches coming out with more than that!!

Sorry Brian Magee but some of those 400k unemployed are public servants too you know. It simply isn’t true to say that there have been no job losses in the public sector. 3,000 jobs have been lost in education alone, not to mention temps in the HSE. The problem is the job losses haven’t fallen where they’ve needed to.

There has been no compulsory redundancies

Good to hear someone contributing some sensible comments to this issue. Those dramatic “40% cut” comments are being thrown around without any real qualification. The allowances should have always been taxed. The gardai are relatively overpaid by international standards. Fact.

You might want to check your figures because i’m nowhere near €40,000 never mind plus

Don’t brand all private sectors and those council workers with chushy jobs they are all being weeded out. I’d say you are the type who’d be the very one to complain if you needed help but had to wait coz of all the cut backs and loss of stations . And if you saw the wages they got for the hours they do and the shit they have to take. I’m not a Gardai but I sure wouldn’t do the job ….. Now back in your box love

Sean I take that back. Reading your further posts i realise you are a reasonable man once presented with the facts on Garda pay. I direct it instead at Brian Magee.

The problem Brian is that the laws of economics do not apply to the Public Sector. And never have. As you rightly point out, money is being borrowed to make payroll. This could not happen in a private business.

@ Eamonn Bolger … You say “the laws of economics don’t apply to the Public sector,Money is being borrowed to make payroll”
…. Economics as most other things is a finely balanced scales. Public finance is made up of a lot of € expenditure and income..
Firstly when times were good & SOME workers were making money hand over fist, (examples given at the time were the block-layer getting paid a certain £ per block rather than hourly rate)..driving big cars & buying big houses the public sector worker plodded along at an average wage (or slightly above for those workers with degrees or whose work entailed additional duties). Even the low paid public service worker had the wage benefit of consistency, regularity and security…. Those benefits are what’s being castigated online by people. But now in the economic downturn we see that a lot of that consistency has been attacked. The cuts were made to public sector pay before Croke Park – there was a 5% pay cut & a 6% pension levy, together with the rises in USC and other taxes n levies most are taking home 21% less..(urgent tidying up of the balance sheet is the cutting of excessive expenditure where Govt Depts were purchasing/procuring at over-inflated prices, where bulk buying principles weren’t adopted & where individual tenders cost more, the Fraudulent or excessive Claims in the Social Welfare system where some prefer to remain on welfare as it pays more benefit than work would. Also the non payment of income due to govt

@john Parker: the reality John is that we cannot spend more than we earn. This is basic economics which every household is familiar with. The state is no different – and should not be.

In a normal business if income reduces then overheads are reduced. It is a necessity. The Public Sector management – in the main – appears to be incapable of staying within budget, either in a day to day basis or for projects (PPars anyone?).

I do however agree with you on SW. The number of people on “invalidity” or “disability” beggars belief and undermining the people who actually ARE invalids and disabled.

Again this is a function of incompetence in the Public Sector that this is allowed continue.

So don’t be surprised or indignant when people point out the glaringly obvious economic contradictions that make up our Public Sector.

@ Eamonn Bolger – I am well versed in economics. We are agreed on income -v- expenditure – But you’re missing my point
(1) Yes, we can’t spend more than we earn. Cutbacks needed to be made…
# my point is No more cutbacks on remuneration. Its Cutbacks on the wastage/free money etc that need to be made. People seem to forget cuts were made to wages prior to Croke park & also pension levy was introduced & other hits resulting in min of 21% less in take home pay…. Manpower is almost reduced from15,000 to 13,000 making a 13.5% cut shouldered by the remaining workforce. A working week that used to be six days of 8 hour shifts is now six days of 10hour shifts – 60 hours before you get a rest day. Expenses were cut by 25%. People on the outside looking in forget this and suffer from the “more pay cuts needed” mentality…

I would liken your argument to that of the Multiple supermarkets. Pricing a branded item on the shelves and then being able to sell below cost because they insist on merchandising costs or kickbacks for stocking a product until eventually the farmer is being paid less for milk than people supplying water, or the supplier goes bust… HOW LOW CAN U GO…
Gardai have supplied their services at a set cost. This has been reduced to what many wd now consider breaking point level … They are saying ENOUGH IS ENOUGH..

SOMEBODY should WAKE UP & SMELL THE ROSES – Garda backs are against the wall – They will not take it lying down. It’s our employers choice

John, in the real world your argument might hold substance. If the PublicSector operated in the real world. 80% of the duration budget goes on salary; 70% of the HSE budget. And that’s probably across the PS. So where, John, would these savingscome from? No business – anywhere – cold survive with salary payrolls like that.

Duration = education. Spellcheck.

You’ve just made my argument for me …..
An Garda Síochána is public sector – But it is “Service Industry” not manufacturing etc which is why for obvious reasons A.G.S. is labour intensive. You only need to spend so much on equipment, cars & stations every so often. But these items don’t investigate traffic accidents, sudden deaths, suicides, deal with public disorder, armed robberies, Fraud, assaults. For that you need feet on the street. You need 24 hour cover, a geographical spread & the ability to cater for peaks such as Queen & Obama and this year for European Summits … NOTE: The Garda Budget is being raided once more to subsidise this European event that should be paid for out of separate funding & AGS will suffer.
SO obviously Wages is a big % constituent of budget. A bit like the ad for security company over internet – If everything could be dealt with by CCTV & a voice saying you there in the red jacket I see you stealing that, please hand yourself into the local Garda station then we wouldn’t need employees, there would be no need for wages… I left a situation of higher earnings & safer work conditions in computer programming field to work as Garda, others did same. The € currently being paid just about covers living. I joined almost 24years ago – there’s no opt out to alternative employment for me & similar colleagues. There is for those with only a few years done who had alternative skills but they will b pushed to quit by low morale & attacks on their pay.

Brian, you can hide behind terms all you want, it only serves to highlight the weakness of your argument. A job loss is a job loss and all of the 3, 000 jobs lost in education were compulsory. Indeed, compulsory redundancy would be better than what happened in education, seeing as those teachers and SNAs who lost their jobs received no redundancy pay.

So you have six year so go to retirement? Yet another hidden, ridiculous cost.

What do you earn a year? What’s your occupation?

No, I don’t have 6years to go to retirement. The first 15mths in AGS don’t count for pension and were paid at £50 a week. After i leaving a job in the private sector that paid more than that £ for lunch expenses…. I can retire in June 2020, which is almost 7 1/2 yrs away, but like most others I will end up having to serve until
July 2028 (remember to send me a birthday card)….
Believe it or not, up to recently the majority of Gardai served almost up
to a year of compulsory retirement age and some had up to 40 to 42 yrs . Any length of time in this job the wear and tear does you in. It isn’t sedentary work, both mentally & physically…. A minority left on the dot at first avl opportunity…

You might have missed your calling, I have a feeling you’d be commissioner by now.
“Don’t judge until you have walked a mile in a man’s shoes”

F…..f Professor.

Hide behind the child

Well Said Liam This Country is Full Of Begrudgers who would be Too Cowardly To Do Your Job But Love To Moan About Everyone Else.

Sean What Job Do You Do and How Much A Week Do You Take Home. Do You Get Assaulted on a Regular Basis / Do You Get Spat At On a Regular Basis / Are You Threatened You Or a Family Member Will Be Murdered / Raped On a Regular Basis / Are You Followed From Your Place Of Work To Your Home On A Regular Basis. / Do You Have To Put Up With Regular And Abusive Intimidation On A Regular Basis. / Do You Have To Accept All This Crap And Not Even Get Backing From Your Own Management Leaders. Are You Expected To Drive Dangerously Defective Vehicles While On Duty. Vehicles That Are So Dangerous They Would Not Pass The NCT Test If They Had To Undergo Same. Are You Expected To Put Your Life On The Line Every Time You Go To Work and Be Grateful For The Opportunity To Take Home 325 Euro A Week. I’ll Bet Not I’ll bet You Are Far More Respected By Your Employers And The Public You Deal With.

Now now John. I know of three Gardai who have retired in their early to mid-50s. Just saying…….

O’Leary Go Fly Your Kite Some Where Else, Eg Over A Cliff.

By “Now Now John etc” you seem to b making out as if I’m engaging in spin… I’m not, my credibility means a lot to me…. Of course you know at least 3 who left in their mid 50s….. Indeed in the last few years since start of 2010 a lot jumped ship, right up to end Feb 2012 before their pension got hit with the pay cuts we all suffered.
You were originally making out that i wd retire after 30yrs and I stated that the majority didn’t do this.. And that is fact, obtainable from plenty of sources, that most Gardai serve beyond the date at which they can first retire…

Now, you are obv very entrenched in your views and I must turn my energies to productive matters. But I’m glad that my few discourses might at least have enlightened others who browse these pages – so its been worthwhile.

You are saying he didnt go to jail because he was s guard? How do you explain the thousands of other who commit these assaults every week end and when convicted dont go to jail? You hardly think Gardai have influence over judges decisions

And let md guess, hour garda relatives all own a load of houses?

I fail to see what the dean foley case has to do with the topic?

One law for the police, and one for the rest of the rest of us.
How could he be going to jail on day 1, then walk free the next day?

Do you want other names?

See my reply above re my pay and then tell me I’m “well paid”

What would you consider well paid Robert?
Believe you me the numbers stated in the papers when this topic comes up are gross figure, to get an accurate tale home estimate remove 40%. In a PS worker, 12 years in the job I take home €570, my gross is 970 per week. That’s a decent wage but nothing more, definitely not the impression you’d get from reading the indo where you’d think we’re rolling in it.

Liam people who still have this private public divide are few and far between. Most people know front line staff are being targeted in public sector and that ye can’t take anymore cuts. Fair play to ye for taking action and ye have lots of support. People need to rem that, we need these people and we need them at their best, their jobs are for our own welfare. Lay off each other people and go after the corrupt spineless politicians at the top and most importantly the cause. SF and independents like Stephen D for next election.

Behind the Garda 100%…let these people with their negative comments spend a week working with the guards , see what they have to do, ..then come back and state their opinion . As the mother of a young guard in the force 4 years I have watched him get disillusioned with the whole thing, if they get any more cuts he would have been better off staying in the retail job he had before he went to Templemore ….and safer I might add !!

Let Alan Shatter or any Minister walk in the Gardai’s shoes for a week

Well Said Andrea.

Bernadette they Would Be Too Cowardly and SPINLESS .

Make a phone call some Saturday night around chucking out time from the boozers. Try to get two plumbers to your house for an emergency. Double quick. Ask for a price.

Then come back and moan about stupid allowances.

You really should have stayed in school a bit longer Harry.

you really do have a problem JIM its seems like you got the blue flu virus

Dear oh dear, I really hope you’re just messing about on this site. It couldn’t be possible you’re really that slow-witted. Could it?

Good man harry!!! Ur some laugh…

barry……what about the gun racket in the high court and the penalty points rub outs. there like bees in a hive one stings and they all want to sting, the only thing is with the bee it dies and gives it life

One flew over the cuckoos nest

Now I’m convinced you’re just having a laugh. Either that or you need to up the dosage.

Jim, are you a rozzer too?

A rozzer?? What, are u British? I believe that’s what the British people call their police force as a humorous term of endearment.

Re read thru the whole thread.. We’ve mentioned it several times above

Theres about 13000 guards whos P60s could vary by thousands depending on Service, Type of Roster, if type of service means alot of overtime or allowances.

Can all the Garda posters tell us how many houses they own?

Vast majority own one and when they and thousands of other workers walk away from the because they cant pay for them then the fun will start.

How many do u own Barry?

I said the “vast majority” not all. Theres a difference in whining publicly and fighting your corner to protect you snd your familys quality of life. And re the Dean Foley i had to google it there to see what you were talking about. Going by news web site it went like alot of other street assaults, whats your problem with it

How many Guards do you know Barry? Well enough to know their personal buisness

What is it you work at yourself?

Careful .look what happened to last crew . who took advantage of that. Look it up.

Nonsense, she failed a breath test and was processed as anybody else would be

Theyll be heartbroken to hear that are you sure you wont reconsider

She did NOT fail the breath test.
The Gardai are supposed to uphold the law not act on their personal prejudices. But then ” vindictive” is the first adjective which springs to mind when one looks at our ineffective police force, one where misconduct is condoned by mainstream politicians.
Even the Commissioner admitted that handcuffing her was inappropriate.
What we need is a reformed police force, not one which still resembles the old RUC!

Join up and change itfrom within

She failed the roadside test. Passed the evidential.

You really have no idea what you’re talking about Barry, sure you don’t?

And when was the last time the commissioner arrested anybody ?

she never failed a test

Cheers Harry for the comic relief

Thought about it and name calling seems to be the best option, ya f#@kin halfwit

Proof .Harry you really are sad.